全 101 件のコメント

[–]Axxion89'16 Ford F150 / '15 Honda Civic / '94 Camry Coupe 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (15子コメント)

There's a thick irony in the fact that a company that is the face of progressive ideology fighting against the same ideals that I imagine 90% of it's customer base believe in. If the workers were smart they'd use this as a PR campaign against Tessa to help unionization efforts

[–]Dtrius 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (6子コメント)

They know they can pay workers and engineers under market value because employees get to say "I worked for Tesla!" on their resumes. Tesla knows this and takes advantage of it.

[–]skgoa 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The ironic thing about this being that it really doesn't matter to future employers at best and creates a bad impressive at worst. At this point pretty much every engineer in the industry knows about Tesla's hiring practices and the quality of their engineering work (or lack thereof), so having worked there really isn't the badge of honor many college students and recent grads are so convinced it does.

[–]TopspinTEC 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes it does. You have no idea how much attention a former Telsa intern would get over a former Hyundai intern at a career fair with otherwise equal resumes. You can assume that a Tesla employee worked longer hours, with stricter deadlines, and collaborated with a more competent team.

[–]MrPositive1 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It really does. Some with work experience form Tesla is def going to get attention. And when you're looking for a job that's what you need, something to stay out. Yes, we all know about Tesla's hiring practices and the quality of work, but you can not take away what the brand is and the "bigly" name it has.

[–]speedisavirus'15 Wrangler Unlimited -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They aren't going to get it from me if I see it.

[–]P-01SMX-5 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, no, that just means the market value is lower for Tesla.

I imagine it has more to do with work conditions.

[–]XDingoX832003 Saab 9-3 ARC / 2002 Acura MDX 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Um... why shouldn't they take advantage? I worked for General Dynamics as an engineer and they have to pay over market because working for them sucks monkey nuts. Their name doesn't carry a whole lot of weight either on a resume. They have to make up for this by paying over market. Tesla on the other hand has thousands of engineers who'd give up their first born to work there. So of course they are going to pay under market. It is basic supply and demand. No one is demonizing the workers at General Dynamics who are paid 5-10 grand over market for taking advantage are they?

[–]kedar_ 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair the average tesla owner has an income of at least 250k or something like that.

At the end of the day most of these people probably only believe in what they claim to because it makes them feel better. I have quite a few "rich" friends who never volunteer or give to charity. They just talk about stuff but I never see them do anything about it.

I'm not trying to be cynical. I'm not close to the average income but I make low six figures. I believe in free market but with some limitations and it's harder to walk the walk than it is to just talk the talk and feel good.

That being said it seems the workers are doing ok compared to other car workers. Maybe move the plant to middle of the country? Give those folks in middle america a taste of opportunity.

[–]feralandroid'17 Golf R 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're right but for some reason this constantly seems to be the case.

[–]McDrMuffinMan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wait how is tesla the face of progressive ideology?

[–]angrifff 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because they are a band of crusaders fighting for the technology god in the holy war against the fossil fuels that are going to cause the Global Warming apocalypse.

[–]barracuz -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because they're ballsy enough to use investors money on progressive innovations.

If 10yrs ago GM decided to use half of all assests on experimental all electric autonomous vehicles people will lose their shit.

[–]RichGunzUSA2005 Mercedes ML350 SE, 2014 Nissan Versa Note SL -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unions arent always a good thing. Unions = higher wages = higher prices. Teslas are already expensive enough as it is, do you wanna kill electric cars? Cause thats what will happen with unions.

[–]slapdashbr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most Tesla customers are rich. They aren't necessarily progressive just because they want an electric car.

[–]autotldr 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 90%. (I'm a bot)


Since the beginning of Tesla production at Fremont five years ago, there have been dedicated health and safety experts covering the factory and we hold regular safety meetings with operations leaders.

As shown below, a Tesla team member earned between $70,000 and $100,000 more in total compensation than the employees at other US auto companies!

There will also be little things that come along like free frozen yogurt stands scattered around the factory and my personal favorite: a Tesla electric pod car roller coaster that will allow fast and fun travel throughout our Fremont campus, dipping in and out of the factory and connecting all the parking lots.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Theory | Feedback | Top keywords: team#1 company#2 Tesla#3 factory#4 work#5

[–]PM_your_Tigers'02 Civic Si 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Good for them. It's been known for a while that generally speaking Tesla (and SpaceX, unless I'm mistaken) pays below average wages for the area for long hours.

[–]SuperInsaneGoku 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (16子コメント)

It is not just the factory workers that work long hours.... even the desk strapped engineers work long hours and are paid under market value.

[–]PM_your_Tigers'02 Civic Si 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (4子コメント)

When I was in school I looked at working there briefly, but while I have no issues working long hours, I'd like it to be reflected in the salary. From what I saw in 2015, they pay roughly the national average salary for engineers in an area with around 200% cost of living compared to the national average.

[–]SuperInsaneGoku 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Most that start there say they have no issue working long hours... many burnout long before their stock benefits are vested (5 years).

[–]Vik1ng 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That part really annoys me with Tesla and Grohmann engineering (now Automation) and the union negotiations here in Germany. The 10k stock they offer over 4 years really seems more as a way for Tesla to keep the workers there than a honest wage increase. Not to mention the stock is such a roller-coaster that getting it now at around $300 you could get much less if it drops to $200 again.

[–]Tcxb1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not related but I have the same car as you? How many miles you got on her?

[–]SoldPartsBrokeHearts 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn lol cant believe you actually found another Civic on this sub those things are super rare

[–]lvl145jety 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I've heard this too. I think most get in looking for two years of experience to put on a resume

[–]420_E-SportsMastaI drove a car once 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Glassdoor has lots of complaints from employees working 12-14 hour days and being paid less than their 8 hour day counterparts in other areas. Everyone seems to think "being innovative" is an excuse to work your employees to the ground.

[–]lvl145jety 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well many people I went to school with were trying their hardest to get into Tesla/SpaceX, so they will have a steady supply of new engineers for a while.

[–]PM_your_Tigers'02 Civic Si 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Same. I just worry it won't be sustainable for them. I give Tesla a ton of crap (most rightly deserved IMO), but I still want the company to succeed, I'd love for them to become a leading automaker. I just want them to do it while compensating appropriately, while maintaining higher manufacturing standards than FCA.

[–]Commisar2000 ES 300 Platinum 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ouch 😂

[–]scotscottmighty 2014 kia optima 2.4 symmetrical damage is added styling -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah that ferengi commerce authority is a real piece of shit

[–]speedisavirus'15 Wrangler Unlimited 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

0-2 year employees aren't generally that productive compared to paying a 5-10 year employee what they are worth and giving them a comfortable life.

[–]7560 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yep, This is a common silicon valley practice. They value the "experience" of working at such a company as a part of your wage.

Obviously a gig at Google will look nice on your resume, But that's at the expense of long hours with bad wages.

[–]skgoa 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The really impressive gigs tend to pay exceedingly well and have the best working environment, benefits etc., though. And BTW I can't remember where I read it, but apparently the most important factor in predicting how much you end up earning over your whole career is how much you make during your first few years out of college.

[–]kedar_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

To be fair wages at Google aren't low. At least from what my friends who work there have told me. I have a couple of engineer buddies and a product manager buddy. All of them earn more than 150 which is a lot more than me. They seem happy.

[–]speedisavirus'15 Wrangler Unlimited 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not particularly a lot for the area. On that salary you will still probably live in a shoebox or have a 1.5 hour commute

[–]relevant_econ_meme 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

SpaceX pays great but demand unusually long hours and kind of treat people like shit.

[–]Commisar2000 ES 300 Platinum 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Ohhh, it's Tesla fanboys vs. California socialists in this thread....

[–]McDrMuffinMan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Guess who wins out

[–]Double_A7 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

California fanboys?

[–]A_Cave_ManBeater Civic 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Whatever state Tesla moves production to after the union is formed?

[–]flat6turboturbo s + gt3 + 6sp taco truck 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

so in other words, texas.

my home state is so fucked up :(

[–]NotaSport2012 Mitsubaeshi Lancer GT 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jason Statham, and the rest of the FAF franchise.

[–]Commisar2000 ES 300 Platinum 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (20子コメント)

I think Tesla made a mistake building their cars in California vs. the South or Texas....

California workers like unions

[–]AlwaysThoughtful2007 GTI 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's where all the tech people are ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–]bc1123542002 Mustang GT 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah but there is blue collar laborers anywhere in the US. Just because they design their cars in California doesn't mean they can't have a factory in places where it's common, like Ohio, Alabama, Texas, etc.

[–]Hiei2k72011 Dodge Challenger 392 SRT8 - 2017 Ford F250 6.2 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, but the fact GM-NUMMI-TOYOTA moved out of this factory ever-so-close to home and was ripe and ready for car production.

They bought it in 2010. If they'd have acted a little faster, could have bought sites in several union unfriendly areas:

ex-GM in Oklahoma City, Doraville GA, and Shreveport LA

ex-Chrysler in Fenton MO

and if they'd have waited, could have had the Mitsubishi plant in Normal IL.

[–]scotscottmighty 2014 kia optima 2.4 symmetrical damage is added styling 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What about the factory in abnormal Illinois?

[–]Hiei2k72011 Dodge Challenger 392 SRT8 - 2017 Ford F250 6.2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mitsubishi pulled out about couple years ago. Some new company called Rivian Autmotive bought it...

[–]skgoa 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All the other car manufacturers have R&D centers in Silicon Valley and produce the cars somewhere else. Nevada surely would have been a viable option.

[–]Healer_of_arms 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–]AlwaysThoughtful2007 GTI 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn my mobile phone

[–]flat6turboturbo s + gt3 + 6sp taco truck 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you healed its arm.

[–]bakedpatato'03 Corolla TRD Supercharged/'17 Volt Premier 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well where else would Elon be able to find an empty car plant with rail lines already set up to Nevada?For him money isn't the issue, it's time... I'm fairly certain that Elon from the beginning planned the Gigafactory to be in Nevada precisely because it was already linked via rail to NUMMI and picked NUMMI because it already zoned,had all the infrastructure to make cars

[–]didimao0072000 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm fairly certain that Elon from the beginning planned the Gigafactory to be in Nevada

the only reason why the gigafactory is in Nevada is because of the state incentives and subsidies.

[–]bakedpatato'03 Corolla TRD Supercharged/'17 Volt Premier 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

IMHO he played everyone against​ each other to make Nevada sweeten the pot, Telsa had already bought land at the Gigafactory site around the time​ the negotiations became public and the texas site wasn't near any litthium mining

[–]Hiei2k72011 Dodge Challenger 392 SRT8 - 2017 Ford F250 6.2 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oklahoma City, Doraville GA, Shreveport LA, Fenton MO, Normal IL, Linden NJ, Wilmington DE, Dover DE

[–]bakedpatato'03 Corolla TRD Supercharged/'17 Volt Premier 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Didn't those elo shucksters buy the GM Shreveport site?

None of those sites are near any litthium mining ,so while they coulda used the plant for car making I don't think they could build the Gigafactory near any of those sites

[–]technokardinali ♥️ ugly 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yea. fuck unions, amirite!? /s

[–]Dtrius 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm coming in this comment section without choosing any sides but I find it pathetic that anyone here who has an opinion that they don't like unions are being downvoted.

How about some intellectualism to at least say "hey I don't agree with you but thanks for the input"?

Let's not act naive to say that unions don't have a dark side. Unions tend to protect workers that are lazy on the job that deserve to be fired. Unions protect workers, yes, but a lot of workers take advantage of being on a union too.

So let's remember that talking about unions are always a big debate before we jump on the union parade via upvotez on r/cars 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[–]slapdashbr [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Why are people making those comments in a thread about an article about Tesla's illegal union-busting activity? Does it somehow justify illegal behavior?

[–]RadDankDogg'03 Ford Taurus -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"So much for the tolerant left"

[–]MLPorsche85' Porsche 944 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unions tend to protect workers that are lazy on the job that deserve to be fired.

needs reference

[–]JorahExplorer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Comparison figures please

[–]speedisavirus'15 Wrangler Unlimited 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is me pretending to be surprised. Musk is a psychopath.

[–]InformedChoice 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hold on. The recent recalls were due to the part from Brembo, not Tesla. In terms of build quality I haven't heard any other complaints. As for unionisation, it's well documented that the effect of poorly considered unionisation of the automotive industry led to ridiculous working practices which were not beneficial to the industry at all. They went way beyond reasonable demands and led to ridicule. This was symptomatic of the failure of many British firms also, notably British Leyland. I'm all for fair work for a days pay but I question the rationale behind of this action. I can't see anything in this article which suggests dreadful unfairness.

[–]Hellahashtags650 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

inb4 kids from families supported by UAW wages who don't fully grasp how unions affect the profitability and chances of bankruptcy of modern day American automakers

[–]Hiei2k72011 Dodge Challenger 392 SRT8 - 2017 Ford F250 6.2 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am a UAW kid.

And I'm in management.

If management doesn't recognize the contribution of the front line worker to the company's success properly, then morale drops. If it drops so much that they feel every day is hell, they might open up to a union. If enough of them feel the same way, they might vote. And if the vote should pass, then there has to be a negotiation "in good faith".

However, there is also the "negotiation" that goes on into forever. The Teamsters come to mind. They passed a union vote with trucker CR England in Chicago, but after (I think 3) years they still don't have a contract, but aren't striking.

[–]sovietterran1999 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

UAW is to unions as the joker is to the mentally ill.

We cannot judge all unions by the actions of UAW.

[–]sovietterran1999 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Quality of life and fair wages are a plot by the fossil fuel industry to kill electrics!!!!1!

[–]TaskForceCausality 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not surprised.

Tesla has a LoT of debt- were it not for government subsidization they'd already be on a Bankruptcy court docket.

The only hope they have of turning a long term profit is scaling up production of high margin product while holding costs down to the barest minimum,and then cutting 10% below that. Tesla needs labor costs to stay as low as possible ,which is why Musk is using the King Ramses employee motivation system.

Unfortunately for Musk the UAW realizes this too- if they can unionize the Fremont plant they've got him by the balls .A work stoppage would fuck up Teslas revenue stream , and if that happens in the near future they'll end up on that Bankruptcy docket.