The troubling implications of the conflict in Berkley today.

Zaratustash · 5時間前

The only thing troubling is how aweful berkeley antifa is at actually organizing a coherent, strong, militant, and intimidating, protest.

It's not the first time this happens, it's a recurring problem: no banners, no unified block, no cohesion, just a shitty brawl. Time to read up on european anti-fa methods, because rn, they look laughable.

supreme__soviet · 7時間前

in one of the most radical metropolitan areas in the country

in fairness, they apparently bused in a lot of people from out of town, but it is true that we could/should have brought more ourselves.

OldWob · 7時間前

At least one thing went right, Kyle Chapman got busted again.

From what I saw, the main problem was when things were essentially over. Most of the remaining antifa contingent were leaving, and those in the rear were attacked. It seemed like the organization and solidarity shown earlier didn't make it past the decision to leave. The rightists seem to have done quite a bit of arming themselves after leaving the park, and that may have been a factor in the disorganized retreat. Either way, there are things to consider.

Trev_N7 · 8時間前

Yes, we seemed to have lost today. The alt-right held their ground. If we wanna take action against them, we need to be better organized and better trained. It doesn't help that it's only the far left opposing them, any trump supporter can be radicalized far easier than any liberal.

I hope we learn from today

AnarchyIsEquality · 7時間前

From what I saw from the livestreams, the police completely stood down. I'm not saying that we should rely on the police at all, but it's very interesting that they didn't intervene like usual. They wanted the fights to happen. What are people's thoughts on this?

Bocuma-747 · 5時間前

Antifa won in some areas

https://twitter.com/TheAnonnMessage/status/853348876060962817

https://twitter.com/Nen__17/status/853352085294915584

https://twitter.com/Nen__17/status/853343703850790913

ThePoshCatVanilla · 7時間前

Hey guys,

I hope you're all doing well today! I got home a couple hours ago after the riots and here are some thoughts that I would love to share with you guys.

We (ANTIFA) as a unit were so uncoordinated. We got choked off and split in two in the streets. We tried making a push back but no one was willing to fight INCLUDING ME which will be explained in a little bit. We had no strategy, no coordination and no communication. Everyone was in a sense on their own out there even though we were all together. I had to take my leave when I got pepper sprayed in the face and smoked out. I was holding the big black banner that some people have come to see and it seemed like no one was willing to stand with me and my 3 other comades who were holding the banner. Everyone was off doing there own thing which was VERY anti productive. That being said we got a couple good shots in. Some alt-right scum tried to rush us but we quickly retaliated and ganged up on them. However when we went into the streets, that's where it started going downhill. We almost got pushed up against the wall. Our efforts to form a true black bloc were almost non existant and the out right agression from the fascists prevented us from getting anything meaningful done.

Now onto why I was scared to fight. This was my first protest/riot and I was terrified. I like to think that I'm a really peaceful person and I am against the idea of violence so whenever I see someone get beat up, I would charge in but then proceed to freeze up. I have a feeling that some others were like this and I think it would be awesome to have some kind of motivation other than the thought of "If you a see a Nazi, punch him." This is just my thinking though.

ideas on how to fix these issues would simply be organizing a meet up before the protest to get a basic understanding of possible roles we would have or simple tactics to prevent a repeat of what happened today. I have contacted the Facebook page offering help in any way that I can. Let's hope they respond.

BashTheAltRight · 6時間前

remember this, you might have lost this battle, but you haven't lost the war. don't give up.

-79- · 1時間前

I think its funny how righties get worked up over the protestors getting bussed in myth when they have people drive in from Montana for events.

Neo-man · 6時間前

The only thing that this shows is that fascism in America exists only as mindless violence and is completely politically impotent, there little more then street gang's.

SubjectiveOwl · 7時間前

They should have passed out fliers the last week in migrant and non white communities detailing the very real existential threat fascism poses to their communities. It seems like 90% of the protestors were white. Why?

Mentioned_Videos · 5時間前

Videos in this thread: Watch Playlist ▶

VIDEO	COMMENT
(1) Antifa Terrorists Attack Trump Supporters in Berkeley (Patriots Day Rally) (2) ANTIFA beats up Trump supporters in Berkeley (April 15th) (3) BREAKING: MAN LEFT BLOODY AFTER FIGHT WITH ANTIFA (4) Shocker: Free Speech Rally In Berkeley Turns Bloody As Attendees, Anti-Fascists Face Off - Part 2	+7 - I wasn't there but I have watched a lot of videos and streams and it seems to me antifa won. It seems like many here are skeptical so I'll share some links that can hopefully convince you that things didn't go nearly as bad as people think it did. S...
The Battle for Berlin - 720p Colour HD 2.1	+2 - 5 million of nazis like you were already killed before. Here is a history lesson for you about what happens to fascists
Richard Spencer punched for every syllable in Nazi Punks Fuck Off	+1 - Enjoy :)

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The_Great_Cornlord · 3時間前

I feel we need cohesion more than anything. It seems to me that there was a plan in action, but it broke down midway through the protests with groups getting split off. Unity in action, people.

justinmchase · 3時間前

I think it would be beneficial to tone down the rhetoric and the violence. Sometimes the better part of valor is being the one that doesn't fight. This is ultimately a battle of ideas, we need to be on the right side of history and winer hearts and minds, I think these sorts of battles leave us looking more reactionary and somewhat hypocritical. The how of where we end up is as important as the why.

6時間前

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Neo-man · 6時間前

The only thing that this shows is that fascism in America exists only as mindless violence and is completely politically impotent, there little more then street gang's.

Drep_Reaper · 7時間前

I'm really honestly disappointed. Today was supposed to be OUR DAY.

HeloRising · 2時間前

Sad, but there will be other days.

The best we can do is learn from the mistakes made today and try to address them as best we can.

A lot of people are saying it was just an open brawl. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It shows the white power fucks that there is absolutely opposition to them and that opposition is willing to scrap. There was a great post a few months back about a guy who was in a club bathroom after a throwdown with some neo-nazis and he overheard a couple of them come into the bathroom and one say that he wasn't sure if this was something he wanted to be a part of because the response was so aggressive.

As far as preparations go, I feel like we're not going to tactically out-maneuver them. The street is just too fluid an environment to come up with something in advance that's going to make them turn tail and run. Yes, you can have the antifa respond dynamically but I think to get that it requires more training and cohesion as a group than we can practically demand.

At the end of the day, none (or at least very few of us) are soldiers and to expect us to be able to act like them on demand is not reasonable. The push for more training is understandable but that's not conducive to a movement of free association like antifa. At that point you have a core of people that can be targeted and attacked or arrested. One of the great strengths of antifa is that there is no central group or leadership to target.

Instead I feel we would be better served by looking at events individually and seeing areas where two or three people can make a difference; grab a flag, knock out a sound system, punch Richard Spencer, disrupt communication, slash tires, disable trucks, tear down signs, etc. We don't necessarily need to own the street at the end of the day, we need to cause aggravation and frustration, drain resources, make people lose their tempers and put on a show for the cameras. Whenever possible, they should throw the first punch.

Standard black bloc tactics are not going to work against neo-nazis. Black blocs work great against cops who fight as a unit and emphasize staying together. Neo-nazis and fascists are willing to fight as individuals. We can't handle resisting neo-nazis the same way we handle resisting police, the two groups move and fight differently.

That's going to mean that a lot of confrontations are going to be dust-ups rather than shoving matches and we should be ready for that; get in fighting shape, learn to box, invest in some comfortable shin and forearm guards, practice breaking out of holds, etc. We need to refresh on how to deal with pepper spray (50/50 unflavored liquid antacid and water).

Having said that, we do also need to keep the machismo in check. Few things are more toxic to this effort than a bunch of blockheads who are in it solely to punch someone else out.

zay516 · 2時間前

How do you launch a smoke grenade if the wind is blowing in?

asdjk482 · 3時間前

This is stupid. You're all feeding into their narrative and playing their game, just to get the cheap thrills of pseudo-militant activity. Do you not fucking see where this goes? Do you think this fucking helps anything? Fuck me. The radical left is going to always be the punching bag of statists, because you guys fucking enjoy it. Why the HELL are you wasting energy on bullshit street-drama when there is soooo much stuff that NEEDS to be changed, right now? You're tossing punches with wanna-be nazis when you could be fixing the fucking broken-ass society that produces them!

Melanjoly · 3時間前

As an outsider I find this stuff all so confusing ? Nazi v Comrade combat training to bash each other !?

I thought antifa was suppose to be left wing and progressive, but why are they causing violence at a free speech protest ? Surely everyone should have the right to vote and peacefully protest no ? I'm not sure what the goal is, can someone explain what is going on ?

ViolentSugar · 55分前

I highly recommend all anti-fa sign up for Krav Maga classes. Learn proper self-defence. It will go a long way in all areas of your life.

laserbot · 4時間前

[removed]

fatcobra7 · 2時間前

Trump is not emboldening these people. You are. They show up to fight you because they hate you and what you represent. You're mistaking cause and effect. You are the cause. Embracing more right wing organization and ideology is the effect.

6時間前

[removed]

thewhakka · 2時間前

hey ppl. i have been watching this unfold over the last few years. i am just an interested observer, my interest is in individuality and freedom of expression. i have to say, that you all somehow, have aligned yourselves opposite that interest. (the left used to be where the freedom people were, always fighting the oppressive right, recently it seems roles have switched)

i understand that everyone thinks that they are doing the right thing, and they want to fight for it, and that is both understandable and honorable. i am really not trying to be shitty when i say this, i just feel it needs to be said. you guys are not on the same level as the people you fought against today. you really appeared to be a bunch of misfits playing dress up and trying to fit in somewhere, and thats cool, but still i didnt feel like the heart was there. i am seriously not trying to belittle what you are standing for here, i am just giving you the observation. when i look at the people who you are fighting against i see people who are feeling the call to arms against an oppressor. these people appear to be on a whole other level, they appeared to be genuinely willing to give everything they had for what they were fighting for. maybe at some point doing the right thing means reassessing whats important and realizing how good we all have it here. liberty gives rise to individuality, and it is from individuality the we gain our rights, we do not gain any extra rights because of what group we happen to be from. the sad part about saying that is that we just finally got to that point and it only lasted a couple of decades before we started to reverse on our progress.

10 years ago, being an individual was awesome. everyone generally got along, and was respectful of each other, even with our differences. austin tx, and the bay area were pretty much the greatest, most free places on earth. blacks, whites, gay, straight, young and old, just wanted to get along and party, it was really fucking amazing. all of the victim shit, virtue signaling, group identities, and entitlements appear to have killed that and now these places are among the worst places to go. you can no longer just be you, you have to constantly dance around others feelings, it is very weak and unfortunate.

another thing id like to say, is do not start bringing firearms like someone above suggested. please. huge mistake. stick to sticks and shit, because the first time one of you shoots someone, and you can be identified as being part of a group (law enforcement WILL be able to link you to your associates, easily), the entire thing will be deemed domestic terrorist organization and it will be possible that massive arrest could be made. to be totally honest, i will be very surprised if, after todays use of explosives as weapons right in front of police, antifa is not classified, and mass arrests made. you guys are fucking with jeff sessions, a guy who is looking for a reason to fuck over people who would seem to be part of your group. you have got to be aware that you are all known and monitored if you have used the internet to communicate at all.

at this point, i think some of you should go back to your normal lives and give this up. this may not be for you. people will be ruining their lives with felonies over what happened today, i personally have a felony from when i was 18, i am 43 now, and i still regret it daily, it does not ever go away. you cant change your name from it, you cant move to another state, it follows you everywhere. every time you apply for a job, need government clearance, apply to rent an apartment, want to buy a firearm, etc... it just is not worth it. people will have injuries that will last forever, eventually someone might die, which is going to suck. did you see what the m80s were doing to the ground where they exploded? imagine if it were you throwing those m80's and one blew up next to an old lady's head and killed her. are you ready for that level of fucked conscience, because if you arent, it may be time to smarten up and cut your losses.

i know this will probably be taken down by an admin, but maybe not, who knows. you people are our youth, and you will be responsible for the direction of our country one day. please do not lead this country away from liberty. liberty is the reason people can be openly gay, and women are looked at as just important as their male counterparts. these things were not the case in nazi germany (which you guys seem to be obsessed with), you would be correct in pointing out. but they also werent the case anywhere in communism, under any theocracy, or under any other system. remember that communism killed tens of millions more than nazism, and the gulag system of production was a slavery system that worked people to death. do you really want to be responsible for bringing the most free civilization that humans have ever known backwards to one of the most authoritarian and deadly? its just not worth it. fight with love and freedom, and we will all be better for it.

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