全 193 件のコメント

[–]Sarmathal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm offended because society says I should be offended. /s

[–]MioOkami 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll just add on top of other things that the same situation happened in P4.

When the characters went in Yukiko's inn and slept there, they got "assaulted" by the female teacher and Hanako. It was the exact same joke, but just heterosexual women were the ones doing it.

I saw absolutely nobody get offended by that, because, well, it was just a harmless and cheap joke. Nobody thinks that all heterosexual women do what Hanako and the teacher did in P4 and it's the same in P5, everybody knows that not all homesexual men do these kind of things.

You want to be offended ? Be my guest. however, you're really selective on what you're offended by (misrepresentation of gay people), it just makes you sound like hypocritical.

[–]mcsmith1003 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

... I wanted to fuck mishima but now I'll have to settle for doctor death

[–]Shnowyy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I can see why people are offended but i don't think its anything noteworthy.

If Ryuji got harassed by sleazy old women, would you be offended just because you're a woman and not all women act that way?

If it was Ann getting harassed by sleazy straight men, would you be offended because you're a man and not all men act that way? Or if they were lesbian women, would you get offended because not all lesbians act that way?

I don't think the game's making fun of the fact that they're gay, they're making fun of the fact that that they're sleazy old men going for a young teenage boy.

[–]Raycut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If it was Ann getting harassed by sleazy straight men

I see what you're saying but... That's basically a description of Kamoshida. Keep in mind the two gay guys actually chase after you and Ryuji in an attempt to strip you despite it being very clear you aren't interested. Both at the very least intended to molest someone, when it was Kamoshida with Shiho it was made out to be horrible but with the the gay guys and Ryuji it was a joke.

I was really only just a bit disappointed with the whole thing rather than offended, but that part of your argument doesn't really apply.

[–]mcsmith1003 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The issue is that they portray both sides of heterosexuals but gay people are just creepy people who attack young boys.
People probably wouldn't give a shit if there was a gay couple somewhere in the game

[–]Loch_Ness__Monster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The transvestite who runs Crossroads seems perfectly benign (so far at least, still playing). It's not like the game sends the message "all sexual variation from the norm is bad."

[–]MioOkami 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not in P5, I'll give you that. But Atlus already portrayed homo/bisexual in the past with P2.

The canon romance is Maya, however, Jun or Eikichi are romance-able. It is actually impressive that they did that for a 1999 game (in Japan at that).

But I doubt a lot of people even played Persona 2 here...

[–]jimjengles -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

People love to get offended about every little thing. That's the issue. They made a game, a good one, it doesn't need to include every race or sexuality perfectly portrayed because it's a fictional story for Christ sakes.

[–]RyanB_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No but they shouldn't then continue to make a joke at the sexuality's expense.

[–]mcsmith1003 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

then they should be a group of straight men raping ann, get rid of the gay aspect and there isn't an issue because gays aren't in this at all except for one bad thing.
They need a positive to outweigh the negative

[–]Terrywolf555 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the issue OP has is that ANY instance of homosexuality in the game is either A: Treated like a joke, or B: Used to portray stereotypes like in the case above. I do have to agree that if there was SOME form of positive LGBT representation in the game, it would not be offensive. But instead, it kinda seems like this is the developers true outlook on gay people.

[–]Rocketai 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Oh, boy. When I saw that scene with the two gay men, I was just waiting for someone to make a post ranting about it on the Internet.

Look, there's quite a gap of difference in culture between the west and Japan. You gotta accept that. They view homosexuals in a completely different light. Persona 5 wasn't made with the western public in mind, so Atlus doesn't bother trying to not offend anyone with their jokes.

Also, those two men appear only twice for 2 to 4 minutes, in a game of ~90 hours.

[–]Plejjj 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why is this getting downvoted? Fact is fact. No way of being PC about that.

[–]ToxicDevil93 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

some people just wanna complain

[–]Ipride362 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah. Don't be openly gay in Europe outside the cities either. Or anywhere in Eastern Europe. Don't even mention or have any hint in Russia or India.

America is the fourth most tolerant next to England and Canada and Australia.

[–]ddsci -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you have such a pressing need to be gay, go to tinder or whatever.

[–]AwokenLurker 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

People get way too easily butt hurt...i found the whole thing hilarious!

[–]Plejjj 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hehe. I see what you did there.

[–]WCsharpeh 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought it was pretty funny at the beach tbh

[–]GeneraleElCoso -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is playing with sterotypes.

Everyone does the same with Italians, Frenchs, Americans, Germans, Jews, Mexicans, Brazilians ecc, no one is offended by it so i see no problems and this is the same thing

[–]TheSeaOfThySoul 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

In fifty hours I've seen those two men once, and I really thought nothing of it. So, two drunk men in a red-light district - important fact - try to hit on you, and that's a super bad thing?

Can't there be at least slightly negative portrayals of homosexuals in video games? Why does it all have to be sunshine and roses? Can we crest the point of caring and just treat everyone equally?

I felt it was fitting, before I'd played the game I was on the side of people who weren't into it, but now that I have the context, I'm fine with it.

[–]Seifersythe 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A negative gay character is different than a gay panic.

One is a character, one is joke who's punchline is that gay people want to rape you.

[–]DOAbayman[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

A character flaw is different from an outright negative stereotype we're strugglling to undue. if thats ALL that person is then it's not worth it to put in the game.

[–]Plejjj 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Struggling to undo? As terrible as it sounds, or how much people want to downvote, you're not going to undo a stereotype. It's up to individuals to figure out how they wish to perceive people, not a collective. One stupid character does not speak for an entire kind of people. And it's entirely up to the game creators to decide what is worth and what is not worth putting in the game. That is creative freedom which should never be downtrodden by identity politics.

[–]Parkerdude 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm kinda annoyed with all the comments in here telling people to "get over it and you can't be offended."

I wasn't offended necessarily, however it was a little obnoxious.

It seems that people really don't grasp the narrative that makes this very offensive to some.

My own father called me a pedophile when I came out and told me to get out because "my brothers were in the house." It is a nasty thing gays are still called to this day by large groups of people in America.

So a scene, where two flamboyant gay guys drag off a high schooler for a laugh, may seem harmless to many people who don't see it that way.

But for people that have been through that or seen other people be called those things, it's a very different feeling.

It's not about wanting to be offended, it's that the joke was cheap and rings very close to home for many people.

Instead of writing people off just because YOU weren't offended, try to understand why others would be.

It's not a big deal to me, but I can understand why it would be to others. Depictions like this, just feed into a very nasty narrative. A narrative that is very real for many people.

[–]jimjengles -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You literally just described being offended by a joke that hit too close to home. Comedy is dying in this country because anything that "hits to close to home" gets a twelve page Reddit thread or article in the times and the author needs to apologize. Leave it alone, it's a joke.

[–]Garrus_Shakarian 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thanks for putting it in better words than I can - I'm honestly pretty disappointed at the responses here.

The gag couple was such a "oh its this stuff again" that actually did sting a little because it was kinda what some of my friends thought I would turn into after coming out, what with the pastels, mincing, and aggressively hitting on all things male.

I love the game to bits, and I understand fully that it's from another culture where this sort of portrayal is common - but I do hope more people realize that it does hit harder for some.

[–]jimjengles 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

There is literally a gym teacher who's molesting and raping/beating kids. Do you think all gym teachers playing the game are fucking offended by that? I don't understand why you get to pick and choose what offends you and when. You disregard everyone's intentions (in this case to make an amazing game about fucking shit people) and just complain about everything.

Everyone realizes parts of this story hit harder for others because it's about real life. The difference is all the other people don't make a Reddit thread about it telling everyone how deplorable it is and how much more sensitive they are than you.

[–]oppressedgamer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Somehow I don't think gym teachers were ever an oppressed minority.

[–]ToxicDevil93 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

it's you that's drawing a correlation between "weirdo" and "homosexual".

nothing about these two characters spoke for homosexuality at all. even with your father, as shitty as that story is, it doesn't relate to the topic at all.

they were some creeps who happened to be gay.

[–]DOAbayman[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are you kidding me? The word queer has pretty much been ruined because everyone made that correlation.

I've also gotten into arguments trying to desperately convince my dad that faggot is not literally defined as a gay pedophile.

[–]ToxicDevil93 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

that's unfortunate for you, but it's not relevant. stop projecting your personal experience onto a cheap gag in a game. it wasn't made to offend.

[–]RyanB_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No but that doesnt mean we can't still address how problematic it is in hopes of a change

[–]ArsSanctum 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Listen, it was far from my favourite scene in the game, but...seriously?

"It dates P5 to make this joke in 2016/2017" Yeah, it does. Same date that you just threw in there. This game was made in 2016/2017.

By all means you all have the right to be unimpressed or offended by this joke, but if you're going to voice these opinions, you can't really get upset when others judge your opinion however way they choose. Grow up.

Now, as for the joke itself...yeah it's stupid. Not necessarily because the guys fit a negative gay stereotype, but just because it...wasn't that funny. It actually felt a little forced.

As for wanting gay romance options in P5 uh...well, as a writer, I never write a character with their sexuality in mind. I've written gay, lesbian, and bi characters...but not often. Possibly because I'm straight, but most likely because, again, I do not write characters with sexuality in mind.

But then you may ask about Kanji in P4, but P4 is a little different. P5 DOES have an overall theme of "outcasts", note how the only problem with that gay pair was how uh, rape-y they were. Nobody judged them for being gay, Ryuji just happens to be straight and not interested, while they are being forceful and aggressive. Nobody even seems to mind Lala either.

The outcasts in question are people judged not for their character, but for their surface appearance. Ann was being judged for being a model and hanging around Kamoshida all the time. Hifumi is judged for being a model and for being basically a chunnibyou whilst playing shogi. Makoto was being judged for being that straight-A Student Council President who looked like and acted like a teacher's pet.

P4's theme is all about accepting oneself. It was about people neglecting and rejecting their OWN desires, leaving them unable to control them. P5 does this too, to an extent, but only in the case of Futaba does it hit the same extreme that it does in P4. P5 is about justice to those ignored by society, or mislabeled. P4 is about becoming a better person and facing your own flaws.

Having a gay character, a teenager at that, written with the clear intention of BEING a gay character works a lot better in P4's theme than it does in P5's theme. Obviously P5's characters still have their own internal struggle, but Kanji's sexuality resonated with the core of P4 and not just himself. It was handled well and in a relateable manner without it dominating his character. Really, for a 2008 JRPG, they did a fantastic job.

That doesn't mean they need to repeat it.

I understand that you wish they DID repeat it. Really. But two things can be true at once:

The writers at Atlus wrote a fantastic character who represented the struggles of coming to terms with one's sexuality as a teenager in a tasteful way.

And the writers at Atlus wrote two gag characters whose stereotype and joke-skit fell flat, being offensive to some.

Kanji was not invalidated by two nameless characters in a different game, and Atlus doesn't have to push for gay romance options in their games.

I was a bit all over the place here, but I think I got everything I had to say on the matter out. REALLY didn't think this was such a big deal, but I tried to see it from another perspective and figured it was worth addressing.

[–]English_Rosie 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think a lot of the disappointment regarding the lack of serious gay characters/romance options is BECAUSE the game is about outcasts- a lot of LGBT people spent their time in high school being bullied and outcast for something they couldn't help, so embracing who you are and essentially saying "fuck the haters this is who I am" is something that a gay character could have easily fit with. You can romance basically all the female confidants despite big age gaps (which obviously aren't considered as much of an issue in Japanese culture), but you can't even have one token male romance option? They could have cut one of the adult woman romances and substituted a dude, especially since the dating doesn't really impact the story much. I think people got their hopes up after the dummied out Yosuke stuff.

The game is still absolutely fantastic and the lack of a gay party member/confidant doesn't detract from that. People aren't boycotting the game because they wanted a gay romance, they're just expressing a little disappointment when a gay dude/potentially bi protagonist could have fit with the "outcast" theme so well.

[–]-energize- 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The reasoning behind this is cultural differences. Creepy gay men are a popular joke there, and it's not the first time in the series that Atlus has made it. It's a tricky topic each time it comes up. Where does culture stop and universal human rights begin? You see similar disagreements in regards to the way women are supposed to behave in the Middle East.

While I disagree with making a joke at the expense of a minority, and while I didn't find it funny whatsoever and actually a tad offensive, I do understand that's how their culture is. As a foreigner, I will leave it up to them to decide whether or not they should change their depiction of homosexuality.

If they don't, then so be it. I'm not going to try to "westernize" them. I can't help but hope that they do change their stance on the LGBT community, however.

But just because Atlus did something I didn't like, doesn't mean that I'm going to think significantly less of them or anything like that. Everyone and everything is "problematic" in some way.

Also, I find it a little funny that the people who are defending Atlus from the "offended SJWs" seem a lot more offended and riled up than anyone else in this discussion.

[–]Nok-O-Lok 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Its Humor. Obviously they weren't going to rape him. They are just playing on the gay stereotype of outgoing and like to have fun. Also Japan has a different culture than the US. We don't want Atlus to change everything that some people find offensive for localization, then we would end up with the first persona's localization.

[–]ChadwickHHS 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (7子コメント)

That's a lazy half-hearted justification. The scene was lazy and shlocky and contributed nothing. The joke fell flat at best and annoyed people who otherwise feel real resonance with the game's theme of unfairly being branded. Don't pull bs like cultural relativism as a justification in a game all about rebelling against destructive societal enforcers.

It's not like it ruins the game or anything but it was stupid and uninspired.

[–]jimjengles -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I liked the scene. It was about as lazy as the giant slime penis I fought in kamoshidas castle. This game is kind of in your face.

[–]ToxicDevil93 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The joke fell flat at best

that's your own opinion. clearly you're the one bothered by it, and clearly there's a disagreement between you and the person you're responding to.

"i didn't like it because it was bad" isn't a justification.

[–]Number13teen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Did you like it though? Did anyone like this joke? Did anyone gain anything positive from that scene?

[–]E10DIN 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Things that are funny in Japan aren't necessarily funny in the USA and vice versa

[–]ToxicDevil93 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

i laughed at it.

i certainly didn't think it was offensive, either.

[–]Number13teen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Eh I dunno. I don't really care much for it, but it doesn't bother me either.

[–]ToxicDevil93 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

seems pretty inoffensive overall then.

[–]HuSSarY 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm trying to find the humor in two guys dragging Ryuji off and trying to rape him?

Really? I thought it was hilarious, personally.

[–]Mkilbride 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's Japan.

This kind of stuff is in all their games and anime with gay people.

For them, it's not offensive, but part of their culture, they see it as actually a positive thing for gay culture. They have a long history of homosexuality in things such as Bushido, then there is Kabuki.

Just because it doesn't line up with your world views, doesn't make it tasteless.

[–]RaspyBells 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm overweight and was bullied pretty heavy in middle school for that but when Hanako from P4 crushed that scooter with her ass I just sat there and laughed for minutes. Was that an appropriate representation of someone who's overweight? No. But it was damn funny and I'm happy that political correctness hasn't creeped into every corner of my niche games yet.

I laughed my ass off at the sexual harassment scene, I laughed my ass off at Yusuke telling those girls that they were a disgrace to their kimono, and I will laugh my ass off at (hopefully) future crass jokes, too.

[–]AtlasPJackson 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hanako was kinda cringeworthy. Once she paired up with Kashiwagi, though... That was great.

[–]CountSuckula 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Who cares. Honestly? It's a gay joke...the horror. Out of all the things to complain about, you choose a couple of gay guys that are in the game for a grand total of less than a minute. The only people who will get offended over this are uptight sjw crybabies.

[–]Parkerdude 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not a sjw crybaby at all... not even sure what that is. You should probably stop labeling everyone that has different opinion then you as SJW because then you just sound immature.

It was a cheap joke, meant for a different audience.

A gay joke is fine, but this, as reviewers also pointed out, was a cheap gay joke done in poor taste.

It's made for a Japanese audience and thus it translates poorly to an American one.

[–]jimjengles -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Made for an audience that isn't full of offended people like you, yea. It's unfortunate.

[–]ToxicDevil93 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"it was bad because it was in poor taste" is not an argument.

it's impossible to debate anything with someone who is unwilling to say anything other than "it was in poor taste". why was it in poor taste?

[–]AscendentReality 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I can see this.

Although I think it's ridiculous that people complain about lack of gay romance.

IMO it is better to not do something, than to create plot holes and disconnects. Or make characters that is simply lacking in depth. If you look at mass effect and dragon age. Are they supposed to convince me that apparently most people are bi-sexual? No, people don't work like that, if someone is straight, the chance of them going gay for you is slim to none. If they are gay, how would you magically turn them straight?

I think some of the better portrayals is from tv shows like the walking dead. Where gays and women are shown in variety of roles , without explicitly making it an agenda or propaganda. Those people are themselves first and foremost, and they just SO HAPPEN to be homosexual, or a woman. It's more realistic and creates a much better character.

[–]Hellioning 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I mean, do you think it's impossible to make a character 'just so happen' to be a homosexual in a video game?

I mean, Dorian's entire character is based around him being gay. Sera's got a fair bit of dialogue about her sexuality. Kaiden's gay romance in the third game is treated as a self-discovery period for both him and Shepard.

Ignoring the chances of it actually happening, why couldn't just make a character who is gay and romancable by the MC?

[–]ToxicDevil93 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (12子コメント)

do you think it's impossible to make a character 'just so happen' to be a homosexual in a video game?

absolutely not. have you noticed that lala's sexuality or gender is not once brought up? (except for when she reflects on when she was younger)

probably not--you were too busy complaining about these characters to acknowledge that she's executed just fine.

so, to that i propose another question:

do you think it's possible that these two gay characters aren't representative of atlus' view of the lgbt crowd as a whole?

do you think it might be possible, that they just happened to be two weirdos who were also gay?

and in turn--do you think you might be exaggerating a little here?

[–]ChadwickHHS 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah, I like Lala and I like that I am not forced to pry. Lala feels like a character in universe who is actualized.

These two guys though are really lazy caricatures. It's hard to believe that people defend this not because of or for social progress reasons but because it's really bottom of the barrel material. "Look they're weird!" is some kindergarten comedy.

[–]ToxicDevil93 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

the issue this thread is about isn't about the quality of the humor, it's about whether or not it's offensive.

they're caricatures, sure, but shouldn't that only serve to make them even less offensive? they're really just cheap gags. you either laugh at them or you don't, and then the story moves on.

[–]jimjengles 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't worry man you. Can't argue with these types of people who get offended by everything. They always back pedal to "the joke was bad!" And then stop talking when they realize it was indeed just totally subjective whining.

[–]ChadwickHHS 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not even arguing it's offensive. Almost anything can be. I'm saying it's undermining to the themes of the game because it singles out one group of misfits out of the misfit pool. It targets and reduces them for surface level typecasts just like the obstacles do to our protagonists.

When you celebrate that lazy reduction, you're no different than the chatty classmates talking trash about you, Ann, and Ryuji. You're supposed to emulate the heroic confidants who look beyond your label, not the Kaneshiros, and Okumuros who say "What, this is what society is. Just suck it up loser."

The fact that it's a lazy and easy joke is just more reason it leads to this face :|

[–]ToxicDevil93 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

you sound very moral-high-horse-y here.

i don't even understand how you came to those conclusions. these characters have no relevance to the story. they disappear as fast as they appear and they have no weight on anything.

not the Kaneshiros, and Okumuros who say "What, this is what society is. Just suck it up loser."

yeah this is on the same level as a cheap gag, totally.

[–]ChadwickHHS 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're arguing morals with other people, I'm arguing about consistency in narrative. Your response is an attempted hand waive to dismiss what I put up here without responding to any of it on merit.

"It doesn't matter. " I largely agree. It's fourteen seconds of a hundred hour game and I never spoke about it with anyone and probably wouldn't have if not for the thread here. But for someone else a fourteen second scene could have a lingering bitterness that detracts from their enjoyment. OP might be one of them. He made a thread about it. We're not super upset about it but that doesn't discredit his impression.

[–]DOAbayman[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Representive of their views or not people are going to see it and we're going to end up with more people acting like Yosuke was in P4.it completely justified his homophobia

[–]ToxicDevil93 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

what the hell are you talking about

[–]Hellioning 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Lala's a drag queen. Straight up, when you start to work at the bar, you can ask if you have to crossdress in order to work. If they're intended to be a trans character, I didn't see it.

And obviously I'm not saying that two gay molesters are representative of Atlus' view of the LGBT crowd. But there's, at most, 3 LGBT characters in the entire game, and 2 of them are pretty rapey.

[–]IHateForumNames 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lala's a drag queen. Straight up, when you start to work at the bar, you can ask if you have to crossdress in order to work. If they're intended to be a trans character, I didn't see it.

Yup. There's a huge difference between drag queens and trans people. Lala is pretty great though.

[–]ToxicDevil93 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

you can ask if you have to crossdress in order to work

that sounds like the really insensitive and asshole-y option for dialogue.

[–]English_Rosie 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not at all- it's a totally reasonable question. Lala is in drag, so of course it's natural for a potential employee to ask if they would also have to dress that way in order to fit the bar's theme. It's the same as asking if you would have to wear a maid outfit to work at a cafe where the sole worker there was dressed as one.

[–]Mystery_Food_X 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Gay co-worker of mine playing P5 didn't give two fucks.

Japan doesn't cater to the professional victim crowd

[–]CaptBlaze [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This.

"Why isn't Japan appealing to my Western Identity Issues?"

[–]ToxicDevil93 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

this.

the only people getting offended here are the ones who want to be offended. nothing happens that is generally homphobic. it's just two dudes who are creeps who happen to be gay. nothing to see here.

[–]ingfire 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

2016-17: Where even if a joke doesn't offend someone who can relate to it, other people can be offended FOR YOU and it is therefore offensive and wrong.

Seriously, stop this thin skin bullshit.

"Political Correctness is America's newest form of intolerance" - George Carlin

[–]RyanB_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This isn't anything new and it's not limited to this issue. Look at how offended people get over shit like Mass Effect Andromeda or No Mans Sky.

[–]Hellioning 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Alternatively, there is more than one gay person in the world, and they can have different opinions.

[–]ToxicDevil93 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

boo hoo

find something else to be offended by.

[–]Rickthesicilian -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This, coupled with the operation babe hunt you're forced to go on (two of you don't have a girlfriend by the time the second one comes around), really dashed my hopes for this game being at all progressive socially speaking. I actually can't really reconcile the fact that every gay reference is treated like a joke with the fact that I'm supposed to be playing as myself.

At least there's Lala, I guess.

[–]CaptBlaze [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The game was created for Eastern Culture.

Not the "Social Identity Issue" Western Culture.

Why would you ever except them to touch on issues exclusive to the west?

[–]yamfun 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Uh, "...'flamboyant' men as a joke" is common in East Asians work, and yes, used as a joke. (e.g. not unusual to see such characters in tv-dramas and animes, a-kiss-from-a-drag-queen is a common punishment on comedy shows...etc. Oh and this is a running joke at least since Persona 3 IIRC)

TBH, I always thought it is the West that misunderstood and unilaterally, wishfully thought Persona as some "liberal/progressive" work. (e.g most of the replies here). And so, false expectation led to disappointment, kind of like the jar jar binks as sith theory for example.

[–]ChadwickHHS 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The game is about defying the labels people put on you and forming positive relationships while opposing those who enforce a destructive status quo. In other words rejecting established expectations. There's no reason gay people should be rejected from the broad tent of rejects fighting the system. Making a tired old cliche joke about them just because it's common undermines the overall theme of the game. It's accidental and more ignorant than malicious but it's not well considered. The "you must accept our culture" is counter to the virtues of our protagonists.

[–]Hellioning 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Just because it's a common joke doesn't mean it's a good joke.

[–]yamfun 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (13子コメント)

It doesn't matter whether it is good or bad, the fact is it is common.

[–]Hellioning 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

So? Doesn't mean people have to like it.

[–]AscendentReality 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (10子コメント)

So it means the joke isn't made for you, but there is an audience for it.

It's literally a troupe in the entirety of the major asian countries. You can find similar jokes in china korea and japan.

Feel free to be offended and express your distaste for it, but at the end of the day it's hard to please everyone. In that circumstance, I'd rather start with my home market and then work outwards in term of priority.

[–]Hellioning 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Yes, I'm aware that Japan and other countries think it's a good joke. I'm aware that they're not going to make changes to their vision because people halfway around the world have a problem with it.

I just don't see why people feel the need to point this out whenever the discussion comes up.

[–]Clint_Zombiwood 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Because this discussion is so stupid to start with. Persona isn't supposed to be some progessivly forward thinking sjw crap. They aren't trying to go out of their way to please the politically correct crowd the way mass effect did. It's a Japanese game and the joke is relevant and wide spread in Japan. That's the reason it's in the game. Simple as that. Doesn't mean atlus is made up of homophobes. It also doesn't mean the joke is good, but it's a thing over there, and over there is where this game came from. If you can't see the relevance in that, then I dunno what you want to hear.

[–]Hellioning 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (7子コメント)

So are we not allowed to complain about things we don't like because 'it's a thing over there'?

Yes, I understand that Japan thinks it's hilarious. Does that mean that I have to think it's hilarious?

[–]yamfun 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You should orient your complain to the overall cultures of Japan/Korea/China/Taiwan, not just faulting Atlus and causing things that would ultimately cause them to, like, "oh we caused some scandal in the west, we better shelve the series/avoid the western market/not make games about modern world at all"...etc. (Japan companies love to avoid troubles by simply doing nothing)

[–]DOAbayman[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The idea that you think they would lose over half their sales instead of just not adding two controversial characters in the futures is baffling to me.

[–]Mkilbride 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nope, but it shouldn't offend you either.

[–]Clint_Zombiwood 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Never said that either. I was replying to what you said about, I don't get why this always gets brought up. It gets brought up because it's a Japanese game, and it's a widespread Japanese joke. Be offended, and hate it all you want. Seemed a bit pointless to me as well to have that in there, but I'm not Japanese and in on the joke, but I get the relevance of why this is brought up during this conversation thst is about why those characters were potrayed in such away. This is the fucking reason after all

[–]yamfun 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So? doesn't mean I was talking about where people have to like it or not at all.

I am not the writers of P4 and P5, what do you want from me?

[–]ToxicDevil93 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i'm sure many people were offended by it

what a crisis

[–]sirRaven 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Real here, I did not know Morgana's gender going into the game so I thought he was a really thirsty lesbian to start with.

[–]SkeleJustice -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I still mentally see Morgana as a girl, Morgana is a feminine name with a feminine voice. Was actually surprised when he was confirmed male. Oh well, in the end it doesn't really matter.

[–]Harudera 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They mention that pretty early tho

[–]Clint_Zombiwood 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You even have the option of calling him a girl, to which he quickly corrects you

[–]johnsweber 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Gay male here. The game portrays straight men much worse and social links where the MC is dating adults is awful - but it's cheeky humor. I think people are being over sensitive.

I thought that scene was cheeky and I totally threw Ryuji at them, ran and laughed - it was in a red light district after all, I didn't expect to see gay rights activists there or something.

The bartender is a cool dude in drag and has the best job. P4's Kanji handled gay/bi sexuality perfectly for a JRPG game, at a time I was struggling to come out. So I'll give Altus the benefit of the doubt here.

[–]AtlasPJackson 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I saw that scene, and it was like, "eh, wish they hadn't," but not worth getting worked up over.

I was actually kinda pissed off after the second scene with those guys, but mostly because one of them said they were the fashion police, so start stripping.

I realize it's irrational, but hearing that makes me want to start throwing hay-makers, and kinda makes me resent the writers a bit.

[–]WaruAthena 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, well, everyone has to be all #triggered over something, eh?

Tumblr has some massively itchy bollocks over this topic as well.

It's really irritating because most of the time the people getting their dicks in a knot aren't even gay themselves.

But whatever. I'm gay myself so I'll be happy if they introduced gay social links, but not if it's just to satisfy these muh representation people. I'd like a well-thought out, genuine social link, instead of gay for the sake of being gay.

[–]Clint_Zombiwood 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm straight, but I totally agree. It'd be great for people to have gay social links as an option, but who would want them to feel forced simply because devs felt like they had to cater to tumtards who find a reason to hate everything? I feel bad that the gay community isn't represented well as a whole in gaming, but in this specific case I don't see it as a big deal.

[–]Gooneybirdable 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I could deal with the red light scene but when they brought them back at the beach was when it bothered me.

Like can't you leave this trope alone? I'd rather there be no gay people at all than have them exist as the butt of an overdone joke.

[–]johnsweber 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

yeah, that was a joke that just fell flat. 100% agree there.

[–]Bill_I_AM_007 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kinda rapey too? More uncomfortable than anything else.

[–]LainIwakura 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm gay and agree with you here. I think this is being overblown.

[–]Gyuudon 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Don't recall many Japanese games having gay romance options nor is it really widely received in the country. Probably only reason why they were there was because of Shinjuku Nichome which is pretty flamboyant.

And why get offended by that when an actual rape happened in the first arc

[–]Rickthesicilian 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (7子コメント)

And why get offended by that when an actual rape happened in the first arc

Isn't this, like, the entire reason to get offended? Why is a two gay been dragging off an underage straight guy funny when a girl getting almost raped by her male teacher is understandably horrifying? That's pretty problematic considering its rape either way.

[–]AscendentReality 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What do you mean almost?

Shiho incident actually happened. There is no almost to it, it's a fact.
You are comparing something that happened versus something that didn't happen.

What is problematic is that in prominent eastern cultures. The concept of gay is actually very unfamiliar (this is changing, but still true for the most part). When I grew up in China most people treated it like it didn't exist, or a simple joke. Guys are far more free to be touchy with each other without it being considered to be gay. It's just an overused and far too accepted concept in the east.

[–]ToxicDevil93 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

ryuji ran into some random creeps and ran away. you see them again later and then run away again. nobody was in harm's way.

the first case regarding someone who the school actively defended, that raped and abused students.

you are comparing a serious cover-up to a random guy on the streets of a red light district.

apples to oranges.

[–]-energize- 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think you're looking too hard for a reason to excuse Atlus here. You can like someone who did something stupid without needing to deny they did anything wrong.

It was very heavily implied that those men were going to grope/harass/assault Ryuji. And it was supposed to be funny. And it was right after they depicted a raped girl attempting suicide. And you recruited someone else who is heavily implied to have done sexual things against her will.

Gay people aside, it was still in pretty bad taste and seemed out of place and out of character. I don't know why not playing along with their joke wasn't an option.

[–]ToxicDevil93 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

i don't think they (atlus) did anything wrong. i laughed at those two characters and brushed them off as nothing more than a joke.

it was implied that they were going to do some weird shit, yes. but it's different when a shady, random person approaches you in a scenario like that. it's not a situation where the act itself is covered up by actual authorities, and it's not like anything happened to ryuji in the first place.

they're kids in a red light district--it's dangerous. they got away without any trouble, so it didn't matter.

it's not like you pushed him into them and then the following day ryuji had an abused, beaten portrait. he was just yelling at you for being a dick and it was brushed off immediately afterward.

gay people aside, nothing changes. the scenarios are completely different. i think you're being too sensitive.

EDIT: actually, no. it wasn't even implied that they were serious. they come out of nowhere talking all nonchalant about how they're the "big bad men of shinjuku" or whatever. they're obviously being creepy and weird, but i doubt ryuji was ever in any immediate danger. it was seriously as simple as walking away--which he did in the end.

[–]-energize- 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't think I'm really all that sensitive about this. I'm just observing the tone.

I understand the place is dangerous for kids. All kinds of shady and weird shit goes on there. They make it clear in the game, and you've made it clear in your arguments.

However, what they do with the potentially dangerous situation (possible sexual assault) is turn it into a joke. This was immediately after taking down a pervert and treating the situation with the seriousness it requires.

Plus, you gotta remember that MC became a criminal because he saved a woman from being attacked by a drunk man.

It doesn't make any sense with the subject matter to be turning around and being like "lol Ryuji's gonna get felt up by some gay dudes lol"

I find it more telling of how ignored men are when it comes to sexual assault stuff than anything else. My best guy friend has never been taken seriously whenever he has talked about his sexual abuse because of the misandry. It was less offensive and more frustrating to see it. That's about all I am sensitive about.

It was just a pretty bad joke all around, definitely not one that needed a follow up at the beach. That's pretty much the extent of my opinion.

EDIT (in regards to your own): Either the Red Light District is dangerous, or it's not. You seem really selective in what should and shouldn't be taken seriously in ways I don't really understand.

[–]ToxicDevil93 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This was immediately after taking down a pervert and treating the situation with the seriousness it requires.

I said it once and I'll say it again: You ran into some weirdos on the street. It's different from someone being revered and having all of their crimes hidden due to their status. Beefy Trendsetter isn't revealed to be doing anything wrong apart from harassing some kids one day on the street. The situation never escalated to a point where it needed to be handled in a serious manner.

Plus, you gotta remember that MC became a criminal because he saved a woman from being attacked by a drunk man.

That has nothing to do with anything. That was a random alleyway, not a red light district.

That's about all I am sensitive about.

It seems you have a solid personal reason to be reminded of things like this, but is it necessary for others to refrain from joking about the topic because some people have had bad experiences? Everyone can be offended by anything, and it's safe to say that those who were offended by this scene are in the minority.

Either the Red Light District is dangerous, or it's not

It really depends. But it's not a place for kids either way. The two gay guys were obviously just making fun of the fact that they shouldn't be there. Would they have advanced? I dunno, but they clearly didn't and considering how casually you walked away from it all, Ryuji wasn't in harm's way, either.

[–]-energize- [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't know why you are reaching so far in order to deny the implied impending sexual assault in that joke, but there's nothing I can do about that.

In regards to the equivalence of the situations, I'm not talking about the content of the two gay dudes' overall character, but of their actions. They act like predators in every moment they're shown in the game, so there's no reason not to think of them as such.

And I sincerely appreciate you acknowledging the validity of where I'm coming from. But the viewpoints of the gay people who were alienated or hurt by this are valid as well. Just because not everyone can relate to it, doesn't mean the people hurt are being "too sensitive" about it. Be careful of ad populum. A less popular viewpoint is not necessarily less true than a more popular viewpoint. It's a little silly to tell groups we're not a part of what they​ should or shouldn't feel about situations that don't apply to us.

I'm assuming you're not LGBT when I say this, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[–]DOAbayman[S] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

one was dealt with respect and dignity the other threw all that out the window.

[–]Clint_Zombiwood 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And one wasn't an actual rape at all.

[–]Gremmies 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cultural differences, ultimately. I remember watching a Japanese prank show where they snuck up on a dude who was using a urinal and guys with masks held him while another dude rubbed a hotdog on his bare ass. Sadly, rape is still something joked about there. Rape and molestation porn is big there as well.

[–]Hellioning 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, that was pretty uncomfortable for me. I don't mind the concept of 'gay men hit on a straight teenager and he is uncomfortable' as comedy, but they were very stereotype-y.

[–]StripyWitch -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed.

I find Ryuji attractive so at first I was just disappointed he wasn't a romance option. But after that scene I felt alienated and uncomfortable.

[–]grueble 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed, I had high hopes for P5 and it has hit the mark on everything except this. Still an amazing game but it feels like a step backward from P4 in this way. It was so incredible (and groundbreaking) for a big name studio to tackle complex gender issues in both Kanji's and Naoto's arcs, so it is sad to see them falling back on tasteless stereotypes here.

[–]Max_Nibler 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Agreed. But it's Japan, not exactly to most socially liberal country. Seems wierd but gay marriage is still illegal and homosexuality is highly stigmatized

[–]Theone12356 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well there's some alternate measure that gay couples can use, such as koseki.

That with the fact that marriage rate is rapidly decreasing in Japan means that it's not the country's priority right now.

[–]Max_Nibler 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My point is simply that it's unrealistic to apply our standards of what is acceptable to a game developed by another culture.

[–]zakary3888 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then why are these gays being allowed to walk around freely! Either lock them up and away from the general public or let them do what and who they want and get married!

It's not that hard Japan! /s

[–]Necrolancer_Kurisu 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Unfortunately, the 'gay molestors' are a comedic staple in Japan. That character type appears in many forms of media and is widely accepted in Japan as funny.

[–]lvl3flare 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (13子コメント)

You're not alone, I'm really disappointed in Atlus for this. It undermines the game trying to prop up fringe, mistreated members of society for them to make a homophobic joke using gay pedophiles two times and have them as a constant presence throughout the game. But I can't truly be surprised when they couldn't commit to Kanji or Naoto and had a main character constantly spewing homophobia towards Kanji in P4.

One of the most disappointing parts of it for me is that it instantly dates P5 for them to be making homophobic jokes like this in 2016/17. P5 is an amazing game otherwise.

[–]TheSeaOfThySoul 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The game is set in Japan, age of consent is lower than the age of the main cast, they're not pedophiles.

[–]Mkilbride 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Persona has never claimed to be a progressive series and has no intention on advancing any causes.

[–]Mystery_Food_X 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Current Year" def.-

You have to be tolerant of all other cultures unless it offends me then you have to act the same as us.

[–]Gu7h1x 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (9子コメント)

So your argument against this is "because it's current year"? Gotcha.

[–]lvl3flare 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (8子コメント)

"Because it's current year" is certainly the first sentence of the last paragraph of my post, but it's not why I'm against it. I'm against it because it muddles the message of the game, I'm against it because Atlus is somehow moving backwards from P4, and I'm against it because "gay men are predatory pedophiles" as a hilarious joke is something that has harmed and continues to harm gay people today.

[–]ToxicDevil93 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

i suggest investing in some armor to protect your paper-thin skin.

there's a serious difference between someone getting away with raping/assaulting students and some weirdos who happen to be gay, harassing some passerbys in a red light district. no harm was done to ryuji in that scene, and he ran away. has absolutely nothing to do with the message of the game.

god jeez why won't atlus learn you can't make fun of gay ppl >:( dont they get its 2017???

[–]moxroxursox 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It has a lot to do with the message of the game though, or in fact contradicted it if anything. The game respectably treats Ann as a victim of Kamoshida, who was harassing her and trying to manipulate her into sleeping with him though my understanding is she didn't literally end up sleeping with him - she 'got away' in the end. Still, at no point is that played for laughs and the whole thing is taken very seriously. Likewise MC's backstory - stopped a man who was similarly harassing a woman but the game makes it clear the Would-be rapist is still scum even though the woman 'got away' and 'no harm was done'. Never played for laughs either, treated seriously. There's a clear message being sent here. But suddenly when it's men harassing a boy, telling him to take off his clothes, making him clearly uncomfortable in the same vein as Ann w/ Kamoshida, it's funny and a joke and the SAME MC who copped a criminal record for trying to stop a harassment case just leaves his friend to deal with it? Uh. Kinda jarring towards the message this game was trying to send.

[–]ToxicDevil93 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

But suddenly when it's men harassing a boy, telling him to take off his clothes, making him clearly uncomfortable in the same vein as Ann w/ Kamoshida

this ruins the credibility of your entire argument.

it was not treated the same way as ann and kamoshida, or anyone else and kamoshida. kamoshida was revered and defended for things that the school knew he did.

beefy trendsetter and his buddy came across more as teasing than anything. "grrr i'm the big bad beast of shinjuku".

they didn't come across like they expected to "get their way" in the slightest. they knew they were fucking weird and they were treated as such. not to mention that at a public beach they later arrived and "demanded" ryuji and joker to strip. do you seriously think that they expected them to strip?

not the same thing at ALL.

[–]moxroxursox -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Errrr, what...so you're telling me that harassment isn't a bad thing if the person doing the harassing "doesn't expect to get their way"? No consideration at all for what the victim feels?

I don't think it matters what people thought of them or what they expected, the fact of the matter is they made Ryuji uncomfortable in the same way that Kamoshida was making Ann uncomfortable and I don't think making someone, especially a minor, feel sexually compromised is funny. That shit seriously fucks people up, something this game even explores with Shiho. Even if you argue "they weren't as persistent about it as Kamoshida was" I don't think that's enough of a reason to completely shift the tone from serious (as you got with the Kamoshida arc) to comedy (what we've got here). It's just really really jarring in terms of "so, what emotion is this game trying to make me feel about incidents like these".

[–]ToxicDevil93 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

apples to fucking oranges.

harassment is bad, yeah. but these two tools in shinjuku weren't punishable. they were toying with some kids because they thought it would be funny. i've seen similar things happen in real life. it's not funny if it happens to you, but from the perspective you're in, you are 100% certain that ryuji will be safe, and that it's a gag.

it's not like these two people were calling you and ryuji the following day, threatening you for sexual favors a la kamoshida.

this is like comparing catcalling to actual rape. it's ridiculous. even if you wanna argue about the potential "trauma" of it, ryuji clearly wasn't bothered in the next 15 minutes. he addresses it to you angrily, and then he drops it immediately after.

ryuji was not on the same level of discomfort as ann--that's completely asinine to assume. ann was contemplating her life and was torn between helping herself or doing something really sick and shitty for her friend's sake; ryuji felt uncomfortable when some weird guys came onto him and pretty much dropped the entire subject immediately after it happened.

also, that woman joker saved in the beginning of the game was being forcibly shoved into a car--that sounds a lot more threatening than anything ryuji is up against.

apples to oranges.

[–]moxroxursox 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

it's not funny if it happens to you, but from the perspective you're in, you are 100% certain that ryuji will be safe, and that it's a gag.

I dunno dude. If this was IRL (and the point of an RPG is to put yourself in the protagonist's shoes, rather than looking at it from a meta perspective) and I was hanging out with my best friend in a skeevy place and two older men came by and started making remarks like that, maybe I wouldn't immediately jump to the "they're going to assault him" conclusion, maybe I'd suspect they aren't entirely serious, but I wouldn't leave my friend alone with them, especially when he's noticeably uncomfortable. Especially if I've just witnessed someone try to kill herself because of sexual abuse!

In that way, this scene hurt my immersion with this game. Even if it's "less threatening" than what happened to Ann or the woman in the backstory, it's still weird, for me as a player, that in those cases it's meant to be serious and tragic and in this case it's meant to be funny. Honestly (and speaking as a bisexual person myself) would have been much more okay with the negatively portrayed gay characters here if I, as the MC, had even the option to just ask Ryuji if he's okay or stay with him, something like that which highlights the potential issue with a scenario like this, would have been much more immersive, especially in the context of the message this game was trying to send.

Don't get me wrong it's an amazing game and I've had a blast playing it and for the most part have felt immersed, this is just one scene where that fell short and it's irritating to think that the reason why Atlus - who wrote most everything else in this game very well! - would go for such a jarring scene is the thought process "predatory gay men are just a funny gag!"

[–]ToxicDevil93 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

and the point of an RPG is to put yourself in the protagonist's shoes, rather than looking at it from a meta perspective

you can't make this argument when there are tons of scenes throughout the game that do not show your perspective. persona 5 is set up more like a play than anything. it doesn't feel like you're the main character at all--it's one of the least role-playing feeling game in the series especially with the fact that your main character actually speaks a few times.

but I wouldn't leave my friend alone with them, especially when he's noticeably uncomfortable.

...you do realize ryuji is just as capable of walking away as you are, right?

such a jarring scene

i really think you're stretching here

[–]DOAbayman[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ryuji was being forcibly taken away. Change the music and have the MC act like a human and it suddenly starts looking very similar.

Shit like this why Yosuke wonders if Kanji is safe to be in the same tent as him.

[–]panic_at_the_nabisco 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Yes, the scenes with those characters are easily the worst parts of the game. I love Persona 5 a lot but I cannot and will not defend those scenes.

It's even more disappointing because the game tries to tackle a lot of sensitive topics and shows a lot of sympathy for victims of various abuses, and then shows these awful caricatures. It feels extremely tone-deaf.

[–]CVance1 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Every time they showed up it was massively uncomfortable. Lala-Chan was handled a lot better because they aren't making fun of her, but those guys only exist to freak out Ryuji. It's sad, because they seem to be making progress in fits

[–]Parkerdude 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was pleasantly surprised by the depiction of a Drag Queen in the game especially for the Japanese audience.

[–]Randommorningkiller -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The worst parts

Is some extreme exaggeration.

[–]Gooneybirdable 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Not really. For me, it was the worst part of the game.

Even when a girl tried to kill herself and there were students making crass comments about it, the main characters treated it with appropriate heaviness.

For a game that's all about treating outsiders with empathy it was a little too much for me.

Like 1 flamboyant asshole in the red light district, whatever I can get over it. But then they brought it back at the beach! lay off, please.

[–]AscendentReality 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is honestly just a cultural disconnect.

I have explained this in a previous post. The idea of homosexualism is better educated and learned now in the east, but it's not remotely the same as what young people understand it now in NA and EU. People don't treat gay maliciously nor with open arms, it's simply a joke, and this has been the case for many years. In many ways I consider it better treatment than some of the conservative western homophobia.

[–]imgoingtosleep [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree with you. I used to live in the Philippines and whenever I look at the game shows or filipino movies today, they joke about gay people the way this game does It's not because my country hate gay people. In fact, one of the most well known celebrity in the Philippines is a gay comedian. We actually embrace AND Accept homosexuality but we just joke around like that. I know though that people in the US would take it more to heart than East Asians.

[–]ToxicDevil93 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

this game shows two gay people who happen to be weirdos...

...it must mean that this game is HOMOPHOBIC!!!!

christ, it's two characters. it's not like lala is a scruffy rapist too. it's not like there's any more creeps than these two characters.

just because they're gay and being portrayed negatively doesn't mean the act of being gay is fucking discouraged.

[–]TheProudBrit 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're also the only gay characters in the entire game.

[–]Randommorningkiller 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was just a fun/funny, light-hearted trope moment. Almost every JRPG has one.