I wouldn't mind the lack of gay romance options if those dam gay molestors didn't exist

Sarmathal · 53分前

I'm offended because society says I should be offended. ^{^/s}

MioOkami · 1時間前

I'll just add on top of other things that the same situation happened in P4.

When the characters went in Yukiko's inn and slept there, they got "assaulted" by the female teacher and Hanako. It was the exact same joke, but just heterosexual women were the ones doing it.

I saw absolutely nobody get offended by that, because, well, it was just a harmless and cheap joke. Nobody thinks that all heterosexual women do what Hanako and the teacher did in P4 and it's the same in P5, everybody knows that not all homesexual men do these kind of things.

You want to be offended ? Be my guest. however, you're really selective on what you're offended by (misrepresentation of gay people), it just makes you sound like hypocritical.

The-Korean-Jesus · 1時間前

sorry but i dont wan't to get butt fucked. maybe if they did a female persona character and a male persona character it would of been better but tbh, i dont want any yaoi crap in my games.

mcsmith1003 · 2時間前

... I wanted to fuck mishima but now I'll have to settle for doctor death

Shnowyy · 2時間前

I can see why people are offended but i don't think its anything noteworthy.

If Ryuji got harassed by sleazy old women, would you be offended just because you're a woman and not all women act that way?

If it was Ann getting harassed by sleazy straight men, would you be offended because you're a man and not all men act that way? Or if they were lesbian women, would you get offended because not all lesbians act that way?

I don't think the game's making fun of the fact that they're gay, they're making fun of the fact that that they're sleazy old men going for a young teenage boy.

Rocketai · 2時間前

Oh, boy. When I saw that scene with the two gay men, I was just waiting for someone to make a post ranting about it on the Internet.

Look, there's quite a gap of difference in culture between the west and Japan. You gotta accept that. They view homosexuals in a completely different light. Persona 5 wasn't made with the western public in mind, so Atlus doesn't bother trying to not offend anyone with their jokes.

Also, those two men appear only twice for 2 to 4 minutes, in a game of ~90 hours.

ddsci · 2時間前

If you have such a pressing need to be gay, go to tinder or whatever.

AwokenLurker · 3時間前

People get way too easily butt hurt...i found the whole thing hilarious!

WCsharpeh · 3時間前

I thought it was pretty funny at the beach tbh

GeneraleElCoso · 5時間前

Is playing with sterotypes.

Everyone does the same with Italians, Frenchs, Americans, Germans, Jews, Mexicans, Brazilians ecc, no one is offended by it so i see no problems and this is the same thing

TheSeaOfThySoul · 5時間前

In fifty hours I've seen those two men once, and I really thought nothing of it. So, two drunk men in a red-light district - important fact - try to hit on you, and that's a super bad thing?

Can't there be at least slightly negative portrayals of homosexuals in video games? Why does it all have to be sunshine and roses? Can we crest the point of caring and just treat everyone equally?

I felt it was fitting, before I'd played the game I was on the side of people who weren't into it, but now that I have the context, I'm fine with it.

Parkerdude · 6時間前

I'm kinda annoyed with all the comments in here telling people to "get over it and you can't be offended."

I wasn't offended necessarily, however it was a little obnoxious.

It seems that people really don't grasp the narrative that makes this very offensive to some.

My own father called me a pedophile when I came out and told me to get out because "my brothers were in the house." It is a nasty thing gays are still called to this day by large groups of people in America.

So a scene, where two flamboyant gay guys drag off a high schooler for a laugh, may seem harmless to many people who don't see it that way.

But for people that have been through that or seen other people be called those things, it's a very different feeling.

It's not about wanting to be offended, it's that the joke was cheap and rings very close to home for many people.

Instead of writing people off just because YOU weren't offended, try to understand why others would be.

It's not a big deal to me, but I can understand why it would be to others. Depictions like this, just feed into a very nasty narrative. A narrative that is very real for many people.

ArsSanctum · 7時間前

Listen, it was far from my favourite scene in the game, but...seriously?

"It dates P5 to make this joke in 2016/2017" Yeah, it does. Same date that you just threw in there. This game was made in 2016/2017.

By all means you all have the right to be unimpressed or offended by this joke, but if you're going to voice these opinions, you can't really get upset when others judge your opinion however way they choose. Grow up.

Now, as for the joke itself...yeah it's stupid. Not necessarily because the guys fit a negative gay stereotype, but just because it...wasn't that funny. It actually felt a little forced.

As for wanting gay romance options in P5 uh...well, as a writer, I never write a character with their sexuality in mind. I've written gay, lesbian, and bi characters...but not often. Possibly because I'm straight, but most likely because, again, I do not write characters with sexuality in mind.

But then you may ask about Kanji in P4, but P4 is a little different. P5 DOES have an overall theme of "outcasts", note how the only problem with that gay pair was how uh, rape-y they were. Nobody judged them for being gay, Ryuji just happens to be straight and not interested, while they are being forceful and aggressive. Nobody even seems to mind Lala either.

The outcasts in question are people judged not for their character, but for their surface appearance. Ann was being judged for being a model and hanging around Kamoshida all the time. Hifumi is judged for being a model and for being basically a chunnibyou whilst playing shogi. Makoto was being judged for being that straight-A Student Council President who looked like and acted like a teacher's pet.

P4's theme is all about accepting oneself. It was about people neglecting and rejecting their OWN desires, leaving them unable to control them. P5 does this too, to an extent, but only in the case of Futaba does it hit the same extreme that it does in P4. P5 is about justice to those ignored by society, or mislabeled. P4 is about becoming a better person and facing your own flaws.

Having a gay character, a teenager at that, written with the clear intention of BEING a gay character works a lot better in P4's theme than it does in P5's theme. Obviously P5's characters still have their own internal struggle, but Kanji's sexuality resonated with the core of P4 and not just himself. It was handled well and in a relateable manner without it dominating his character. Really, for a 2008 JRPG, they did a fantastic job.

That doesn't mean they need to repeat it.

I understand that you wish they DID repeat it. Really. But two things can be true at once:

The writers at Atlus wrote a fantastic character who represented the struggles of coming to terms with one's sexuality as a teenager in a tasteful way.

And the writers at Atlus wrote two gag characters whose stereotype and joke-skit fell flat, being offensive to some.

Kanji was not invalidated by two nameless characters in a different game, and Atlus doesn't have to push for gay romance options in their games.

I was a bit all over the place here, but I think I got everything I had to say on the matter out. REALLY didn't think this was such a big deal, but I tried to see it from another perspective and figured it was worth addressing.

-energize- · 7時間前

The reasoning behind this is cultural differences. Creepy gay men are a popular joke there, and it's not the first time in the series that Atlus has made it. It's a tricky topic each time it comes up. Where does culture stop and universal human rights begin? You see similar disagreements in regards to the way women are supposed to behave in the Middle East.

While I disagree with making a joke at the expense of a minority, and while I didn't find it funny whatsoever and actually a tad offensive, I do understand that's how their culture is. As a foreigner, I will leave it up to them to decide whether or not they should change their depiction of homosexuality.

If they don't, then so be it. I'm not going to try to "westernize" them. I can't help but hope that they do change their stance on the LGBT community, however.

But just because Atlus did something I didn't like, doesn't mean that I'm going to think significantly less of them or anything like that. Everyone and everything is "problematic" in some way.

Also, I find it a little funny that the people who are defending Atlus from the "offended SJWs" seem a lot more offended and riled up than anyone else in this discussion.

Nok-O-Lok · 7時間前

Its Humor. Obviously they weren't going to rape him. They are just playing on the gay stereotype of outgoing and like to have fun. Also Japan has a different culture than the US. We don't want Atlus to change everything that some people find offensive for localization, then we would end up with the first persona's localization.

HuSSarY · 7時間前

I'm trying to find the humor in two guys dragging Ryuji off and trying to rape him?

Really? I thought it was hilarious, personally.

Mkilbride · 8時間前

It's Japan.

This kind of stuff is in all their games and anime with gay people.

For them, it's not offensive, but part of their culture, they see it as actually a positive thing for gay culture. They have a long history of homosexuality in things such as Bushido, then there is Kabuki.

Just because it doesn't line up with your world views, doesn't make it tasteless.

RaspyBells · 8時間前

I'm overweight and was bullied pretty heavy in middle school for that but when Hanako from P4 crushed that scooter with her ass I just sat there and laughed for minutes. Was that an appropriate representation of someone who's overweight? No. But it was damn funny and I'm happy that political correctness hasn't creeped into every corner of my niche games yet.

I laughed my ass off at the sexual harassment scene, I laughed my ass off at Yusuke telling those girls that they were a disgrace to their kimono, and I will laugh my ass off at (hopefully) future crass jokes, too.

CountSuckula · 8時間前

Who cares. Honestly? It's a gay joke...the horror. Out of all the things to complain about, you choose a couple of gay guys that are in the game for a grand total of less than a minute. The only people who will get offended over this are uptight sjw crybabies.

AscendentReality · 9時間前

I can see this.

Although I think it's ridiculous that people complain about lack of gay romance.

IMO it is better to not do something, than to create plot holes and disconnects. Or make characters that is simply lacking in depth. If you look at mass effect and dragon age. Are they supposed to convince me that apparently most people are bi-sexual? No, people don't work like that, if someone is straight, the chance of them going gay for you is slim to none. If they are gay, how would you magically turn them straight?

I think some of the better portrayals is from tv shows like the walking dead. Where gays and women are shown in variety of roles , without explicitly making it an agenda or propaganda. Those people are themselves first and foremost, and they just SO HAPPEN to be homosexual, or a woman. It's more realistic and creates a much better character.

Mystery_Food_X · 9時間前

Gay co-worker of mine playing P5 didn't give two fucks.

Japan doesn't cater to the professional victim crowd

ingfire · 9時間前

2016-17: Where even if a joke doesn't offend someone who can relate to it, other people can be offended FOR YOU and it is therefore offensive and wrong.

Seriously, stop this thin skin bullshit.

"Political Correctness is America's newest form of intolerance" - George Carlin

ToxicDevil93 · 9時間前

boo hoo

find something else to be offended by.

Rickthesicilian · 9時間前

This, coupled with the operation babe hunt you're forced to go on (two of you don't have a girlfriend by the time the second one comes around), really dashed my hopes for this game being at all progressive socially speaking. I actually can't really reconcile the fact that every gay reference is treated like a joke with the fact that I'm supposed to be playing as myself.

At least there's Lala, I guess.

yamfun · 10時間前

Uh, "...'flamboyant' men as a joke" is common in East Asians work, and yes, used as a joke. (e.g. not unusual to see such characters in tv-dramas and animes, a-kiss-from-a-drag-queen is a common punishment on comedy shows...etc. Oh and this is a running joke at least since Persona 3 IIRC)

TBH, I always thought it is the West that misunderstood and unilaterally, wishfully thought Persona as some "liberal/progressive" work. (e.g most of the replies here). And so, false expectation led to disappointment, kind of like the jar jar binks as sith theory for example.

sirRaven · 11時間前

Real here, I did not know Morgana's gender going into the game so I thought he was a really thirsty lesbian to start with.

johnsweber · 11時間前

Gay male here. The game portrays straight men much worse and social links where the MC is dating adults is awful - but it's cheeky humor. I think people are being over sensitive.

I thought that scene was cheeky and I totally threw Ryuji at them, ran and laughed - it was in a red light district after all, I didn't expect to see gay rights activists there or something.

The bartender is a cool dude in drag and has the best job. P4's Kanji handled gay/bi sexuality perfectly for a JRPG game, at a time I was struggling to come out. So I'll give Altus the benefit of the doubt here.

Gyuudon · 11時間前

Don't recall many Japanese games having gay romance options nor is it really widely received in the country. Probably only reason why they were there was because of Shinjuku Nichome which is pretty flamboyant.

And why get offended by that when an actual rape happened in the first arc

Gremmies · 12時間前

Cultural differences, ultimately. I remember watching a Japanese prank show where they snuck up on a dude who was using a urinal and guys with masks held him while another dude rubbed a hotdog on his bare ass. Sadly, rape is still something joked about there. Rape and molestation porn is big there as well.

Hellioning · 12時間前

Yeah, that was pretty uncomfortable for me. I don't mind the concept of 'gay men hit on a straight teenager and he is uncomfortable' as comedy, but they were very stereotype-y.

grueble · 13時間前

Agreed, I had high hopes for P5 and it has hit the mark on everything except this. Still an amazing game but it feels like a step backward from P4 in this way. It was so incredible (and groundbreaking) for a big name studio to tackle complex gender issues in both Kanji's and Naoto's arcs, so it is sad to see them falling back on tasteless stereotypes here.

aquaka · 13時間前

At no point do they say they are gay. You don't have to be gay to dress like that. And there ARE people like them in the world, people that do shit like that just to get attention, that does not make them molesters or rapists, just annoying.

On the other hand, Lala Escargot is an awesome person that happens to be a cross dresser. I have not finished the game yet, but they have not said if he is gay or not.

I am all up for LGBT support, but you should think deeper about what you are seeing. It's possible it is just your interpretation that you are offended by.

When I saw them I didn't think "Gay men raping children", I thought "Weirdos harassing (not necessarily sexually) people on the streets"

Edit: Hell! Eddie Izzard has gone on the streets and made people uncomfortable for comedic value, but because we know he is a straight comedian that happens to be a crossdresser, no one bats an eye. He is even viewed positively by LGBT standards.

Max_Nibler · 14時間前

Agreed. But it's Japan, not exactly to most socially liberal country. Seems wierd but gay marriage is still illegal and homosexuality is highly stigmatized

Randommorningkiller · 14時間前

This is Japan. Check your bitching at the door and enjoy the show.

Necrolancer_Kurisu · 14時間前

Unfortunately, the 'gay molestors' are a comedic staple in Japan. That character type appears in many forms of media and is widely accepted in Japan as funny.

lvl3flare · 14時間前

You're not alone, I'm really disappointed in Atlus for this. It undermines the game trying to prop up fringe, mistreated members of society for them to make a homophobic joke using gay pedophiles two times and have them as a constant presence throughout the game. But I can't truly be surprised when they couldn't commit to Kanji or Naoto and had a main character constantly spewing homophobia towards Kanji in P4.

One of the most disappointing parts of it for me is that it instantly dates P5 for them to be making homophobic jokes like this in 2016/17. P5 is an amazing game otherwise.

panic_at_the_nabisco · 14時間前

Yes, the scenes with those characters are easily the worst parts of the game. I love Persona 5 a lot but I cannot and will not defend those scenes.

It's even more disappointing because the game tries to tackle a lot of sensitive topics and shows a lot of sympathy for victims of various abuses, and then shows these awful caricatures. It feels extremely tone-deaf.

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