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User on r/marvel finds anti-Christian and anti-semitic messaging hidden in an X-Men comic. Results are apocaplyptic (self.SubredditDrama)

SS_Downboat が 投稿

Here's the full story

Drama threads:

"Man, can't wait to see how Marvel tries to defend this as an expressive freedom or some nonsense. They've been doing that for the entire run of their diversity comics."

"If a white, Christian artist did something like this, Reddit would be defending his right to "free speech" rather than demanding he be fired."

"Get over your stupid Islamophobia, it is pathetic. And while we are at it try using rationality and stop worshiping sky daddies altogether and grow the hell up."

"Look you sound like a great person but if you are Muslim, then how do we know you aren't also lying to us because it's Ok to do so (as stated in the quran)?"

"I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: [/r/the_donald] WTF! Notable comic book writer placing deliberate anti Jew/Christian propaganda including nods to hateful Quran verses in X-Men comics (xpost from r/Marvel)"

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[–]silveake 221 ポイント222 ポイント  (15子コメント)

I would not want to be an editor or PR person for marvel right now. They are going to get a lot of shit that they couldn't even do anything about. Like I bought the comic and I didn't even notice any of that shit. But once it got pointed out..... yeah......

[–]felsoul 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They've responded to it, at least - http://comicbook.com/marvel/2017/04/08/marvel-releases-statement-on-controversial-x-men-gold-art/

[–]IAMA_LongHorse 118 ポイント119 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same. Never even picked up on the hidden meanings.

I don't blame Marvel at all. I don't think the majority of Americans would have picked up on the messages. This is entirely on the artist.

[–]The__Samsquanch 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Apologize, redraw the few cells people complain about, sell the old "out of print" versions at a huge markup.

[–]SureNick 157 ポイント158 ポイント  (10子コメント)

You forgot: fire the ever loving fuck out of that artist. That dude just ruined his career for a shitty political attack

[–]piddlystains 118 ポイント119 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Yeah, who wants to work with someone that appears to have a habit of slipping hateful propaganda into his art?

But he will view himself as a martyr and be satisfied. And probably fail to recognize that he was able to have a chance to work in the industry because Jews like Stan Lee believe people are equal and tried to create legacies to espouse that belief.

[–]Johnny_Stooge 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No need to redraw. They'll just send it back to colourist to cover it up. This is easily fixed.

I doubt they'll pulp the existing issue and reprint it at this stage. But the digital copy will be replaced with the new edit. The fix will be mostly for any collected editions.

[–]Godzillarich 349 ポイント350 ポイント  (41子コメント)

I do love that he thought he could get away with this, for the thousands of people who would read that comic he thought no one was going to notice that. He risked his future as an artist for no reason because of his religious pride. The fact that he did this in X-Men book make it twice as fucked up. I hope he enjoys never working in the entertainment industry again.

[–]Not_A_Doctor__ 157 ポイント158 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Disney is obsessed with their image. This artist is going to be blacklisted at the big two.

[–]CVance1sick twisted social justice bullshit pleasure 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Image also will probably be wary of acceptance, but he'd have to find a writer for that to happen and I can't see someone wanting to collaborate after this

[–]notshynorarrogant 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I can see him being taken under the wing of some more obscure imprint, and a defence of his "militance" under the argument of "minority being called out for something oppressive majorities get away with it every day". Maybe even a defence through "satire" or "isn't it funny you get so worked up about this when you don't get worked up when X does Y?".

I would actually bet on it, his comeback as some sort of social justice figure.

[–]piddlystains 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Probably not. It seems like the fringes of the comic industry skew more to the right while Marvel and DC have been trying to emphasize diversity more - DC is less overt but the Bat-line of comics is pretty diverse gender wise and Batgirl and Batwoman both have pretty prominent LGBTQ characters (for Batgirl one of the subplots is a lesbian couple Barbara knows is considering having a child, in Batwoman the lead is a lesbian).

I am no expert but I would not expect a noteworthy publisher to take a chance with him. The big two are pretty progressive as is.

[–]Prathik 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I actually thought the fringes would be more left leaning, but this is my counting image comics as fringe but I think now that sounds silly as image is preeeety big nowadays.

[–]piddlystains 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I could be wrong, I'm a newb in the scene who has only spied the fandom from afar until recently, but the impression I've definitely gotten is that values typically associated with the left are pretty much the norm across the board. And these sort of stereotypical-SJW values (I feel dirty even saying that) has definitely been part of why something like X-Men has been so enduring.

What's more interesting is how the fandoms associated with some of these properties seems to no longer care about the messages these works try to convey, I'm reminded of a tweet Wil Wheaton replied to. The tweet was basically about "keep gay shit out of Star Trek" and Wheaton was basically like "you clearly don't get what Star Trek is about." This backlash against tolerance and diversity seems pretty strange in nerd fandoms when the most longlasting and influential pieces are pretty damn leftist.

[–]elephantofdoomWhy can't Jews Deus Vult? 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fringe has a lot of comics on the left and right, but its less "lets respect the rights of women and minorities" left and the "The Iraq war was justified" right and more "lets hang the Bankers" left and the "Democracy is a way for degenerates to destroy our morals" right.

[–]CVance1sick twisted social justice bullshit pleasure 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd say they're at least the third biggest

[–]LadyFoxfire 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think he's going to welcome at either right or left leaning publications (in the US, anyway); leftists don't like intolerance, no matter who it's directed at, and right-wingers tend to be Christians, and don't like intolerance aimed at other Christians (or against Jews, in most cases, unless they're alt-right).

[–]Manndude1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Happy Cake Day!

[–]OkToBeTakei 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I doubt he thought he'd get away with it so much as didn't think it would. E made such a big deal of. The article mentions that he'd slipped political messages in before, but, it seems, few people, if anyone, actually noticed. He just got a bit too bold this time, and it was more a matter of "when" than "if".

[–]FenringSTEMlord with a heart of gold 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't know what kind of political messages he was slipping in before, but it may also be an issue of "Politics is fine, but hatred isn't."

[–]HanhJoJo 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Its quite funny actually, in X-men, the entire setting is that they want to be accepted in normal society. Its entire end goal is inclusivity no matter who you are.

This is completely opposite the hidden messages he added, which explicitly state that Muslims are not allies to the Jewish or Christian, or at least not so much as to allow one to be their leader.

How delusional can you be?

[–]GonzoMcFonzo 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

And in a panel where the Jewish girl introduced herself as the leader of the team, no less.

[–]TheSoreUs 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It was really nice of him to put that label by her head.

[–]Not_a_Nautilus 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The example in the article is that he drew the president of Indonesia on a billboard in the background. Not sure I would even call that a political message, just a cameo from the most famous Indonesian. It's nothing like the stuff he's getting in trouble for now, anyway.

[–]OkToBeTakei 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Perhaps, yes. They were pretty mild before, relative to this.

[–]notshynorarrogant 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He risked his future as an artist for no reason because of his religious pride

That's a strange way of saying bigotry.

[–]GoMLism 156 ポイント157 ポイント  (42子コメント)

Here is the image for those too lazy too look: https://i.imgur.com/vWm1JdG.jpg

QS 5:51 O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

This is the translation of the verse

They also say the 212 represents the Jakarta protests but IIRC the protest was in November not December so Idk how reliable that is.

Also Kitty Pride is Jewish and her head is next to a sign that says JEWelery. Not sure if that was done on purpose either.

Edit: Looks like there were also protests on December 2nd and 4th, and the one I was thinking of in Nov, and a another recent one in Feb.

[–]alltakesmatter 161 ポイント162 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Really not inclined to give this guy the benefit of the doubt here.

[–]LookingForVheissu 73 ポイント74 ポイント  (3子コメント)

With that many potential references, it has to be intentional. If it's not that guy is either negligent as hell and framed, or the unluckiest dude in the world.

[–]Prathik 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol I can imagine Larry doing something like this and the theme song plays when he realises.

[–]elephantofdoomWhy can't Jews Deus Vult? 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Apparently on Facebook (not in English so I can't confirm) he is basically bragging about it.

[–]dishragnarok 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

if you look at it is actually spelt Jewelry. One letter off Jewery

[–]krutopatkinspank the tank 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They also say the 212 represents the Jakarta protests but IIRC the protest was in November not December so Idk how reliable that is.

You remember incorrectly: http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/02/asia/jakarta-indonesia-protest-ahok/

[–]grafton29 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The artist answers with various wink wink style answers. Its pretty clear it was on purpose.

[–]ngwoo 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Also Kitty Pride is Jewish and her head is next to a sign that says JEWelery. Not sure if that was done on purpose either.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but the font on that J kind of makes it look like a Hebrew letter.

[–]Defengara fallacy to surpass metal gear 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Also the jewelry industry in the west is frequently associated with Jews in ways similar to how banking is. "Diamond sellers" and other such terms have been used as dog whistle terms for Jews for ages.

[–]preserved_fish 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The diamond districts in Amsterdam, Antwerp, and New York are also largely Jewish.

[–]Defengara fallacy to surpass metal gear 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well yeah, most of the industries with which Jews are most associated with tend to have, or historically had a disproportionate amount of Jewish representation. That has to do with Jews being pigeon holed into those fields (law, banking, art/performance, etc...) by centuries of Christian imposed laws against Jews owning property (among other BS) and the organic growth of supportive tribalism oriented towards said select fields in Jewish communities as a way to build leverage against oppression by external authorities. Antisemites don't want to dig into actual history though, because if they did they would have no excuse for their beliefs. So instead they go with mad conspiracies.

[–]holmoris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not just you, check out the W.

[–]KnightModern"Free to play and in game purchases are a cancer " Quran,5:100 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (0子コメント)

QS 5:51 O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

FYI, in Indonesian translation it's "leader"

so, with:

  1. bad translation

  2. power-hungry ulema & muslim politicians

  3. conservatives people who don't want to study more about this verse and just wanna feel good about "being pious"

you got a great recipe for bigot message against non-muslim leader

[–]takesteady12 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There's also the guy who claims that 212 is the zipcode of NYC lol.

[–]ActualCryptid 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (1子コメント)

212 is the area code for part of Manhattan.

[–]takesteady12 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But the guy said it was a zipcode. I'm sure it was an innocent mistake, but it was still pretty funny.

[–]sentient8 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do like that we're seeing an expensive collectors item being made right before our eyes.

[–]RepostsDefended 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honestly came in here expecting to see an argument over a nonsense, pizzagate-esque, conspiracy-theory level bullshit where the evidence was 'No! See how Storm is holding the pen in her LEFT HAND? Just like the LIZARD PEOPLE??'.

Turns out, it was 100% legit actual real.

Wow, the lack of foresight is impressive.

[–]doctorgaylovecuckfurvative 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, same here. I hope this doesn't turn into a bunch of internet sleuths looking for secret Muslim codes in every comic from now on.

[–]CVance1sick twisted social justice bullshit pleasure 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that was a dumb decision on his part

[–]angel_kink 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hidden things in art can be fun sometimes. Hidden controversial political messages? Not always so fun... I can see why this would kick up hella drama. But oh god a link from t_d please no.

[–]ChickenTitilatera free midget slave is now just a sewing kit away 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy fucking shit, what just happened?

I do not need this headache right now.

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[–]doctorgaylovecuckfurvative 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love how many people in the r/Marvel thread worked themselves into a frenzy with this imagined scenario where those cultural Marxists over at Marvel are too cucked to stand up to the Muslim Menace and so they let this artist continue working for them and stand by his work.

And then that's not at all what Marvel did. So what are we going to do with all this leftover salt?

[–]IAmASolipsist 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I opened this article up from here at around 7:00am...read it and just as I came back to this page I got a text from my mother with this exact same link and the subject "Still think Muslims love Christians and Jews?"

Funny how it's specifically stories able to be spun a certain way that travel so quickly.

[–]ParamoreFanClubGiving u the helicopter dick 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course people at the Donald don't realize marvel took action against this and just think it's some liberal conspiracy they are pushing

[–][削除されました]  (19子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]felsoul 81 ポイント82 ポイント  (16子コメント)

    So putting messages of intolerance in popular media isn't a problem as long as the people you're targeting to view it aren't a "key demographic?"

    [–][削除されました]  (15子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–]felsoul 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      about intolerance against a Western oppressive majority?

      Jews are a Western oppressive majority now?

      How about no intolerance towards anyone? That seems like a good goal to work towards to me. And certainly more in line with Marvel/Disney's values than this bullshit.

      [–]choob_ 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Comic books are still rather underground as far as popular media goes.

      LOL you might as well just edit this post to say 'i don't know shit about shit.'

      [–]LookingForVheissu 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      It's not like there's a billion dollar movie franchise that stemmed from comic books or anything.

      It's not like some of the most popular TV shows in the last ten years have stemmed from comic books.

      [–]IAMA_LongHorse 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      It's not like Superman is a pop culture icon that is almost 100 years old

      [–]TheSoreUs 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Wow it's actually on 79 years. Batman's 75th seems like so long ago.

      [–]cptal 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I call troll guys.

      [–]TheLadyEve[M] 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And I agree.

      [–]Arsustylemore traditional or classical cuckery 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Pretty sure this is satire

      /and aren't Indonesians the "moderate, tolerant" Muslims I always hear about?

      [–]GoMLism 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      'Who is going to complain about something against Christians and Jews'

      Oh you sweet summer child.

      [–]TGlucose 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      and Jews

      Fucking killed me, like has this guy not read a single history book ever?

      [–]Murrabbit 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The scenario you paint only seems to work if you assume that everyone is lying to one another at all times and all mainstream points of view are just weapons people use against each-other to get some sort of social upper hand.

      It really doesn't say very positive things about your world view that you see this as being remotely possible. Believe it or not many people actually mean the things they say and strive to have an internally consistent set of values.

      [–]TheLadyEve[M] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Hey dude, you've been warned before. No trolling. This bait is ripe.