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[–]so much gold to give outtheclarinetsoloist[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (0子コメント)

We aren't going to delete this thread since it was posted before our megathread, however we are going to lock it, to consolidate further conversation.

Please take your discussion to the megathread, and keep it civil.

Edit: Spelling fix and added link. Thanks for your reports.

[–]tlmadden_73 1195 ポイント1196 ポイント  (31子コメント)

When sales and the playerbase drops .. THEN you'll see all sorts of things like: 1) Sales on packs 2) Daily login rewards 3) Being able to purchase playable decks and all cards in them.

Until then .. Their model seems successful.

[–]Stepwolve 598 ポイント599 ポイント  (19子コメント)

Their model seems IS successful.

FTFY. And you are completely right. HS is by far the biggest and most profitable [edit: DIGITAL] CCG on earth (source). And I'm sure they have plenty of metrics to watch about player engagement - but I highly doubt one of those metrics is "reddit posts demanding we give more away for free" lol

[–]Clone6969 72 ポイント73 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Does magic the gathering no longer exist? Pretty sure its very popular and profitable as well. I don't have the exact numbers but I'd be surprised if HS had actually surpassed MTG.

[–]Lodish00[🍰] 98 ポイント99 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I tried to find exact numbers, but was pretty unsuccessful. I did find that MTG is estimated at ~%7 of Hasbro's total earnings and that it's net worth is estimated around 800-900 million USD. I found a few articles stating that Hearthstone was doing 20m in sales a month 2 years ago. That number could be much different now. I think purely from a profit standpoint, Hearthstone has probably surpassed MTG in profit (this might be wrong). Being paper, MTG has so many other costs that dig into its bottom line (printing cards, shipping, employing more staff). Hearthstone is run by a handful of people and has no real distribution costs.

[–]oxidiser 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh yeah, MTG is super successful too. HS has the added benefit of not needing to create and ship paper products. I'm sure MTG spends hundreds of times the amount HS does to get their product out there. Who knows about the exact figures though.

[–]FalconGK81 4984 ポイント4985 ポイント  (209子コメント)

The reward system for this game is still designed for vanilla.

This.

[–]kaioto 905 ポイント906 ポイント  (175子コメント)

They have to go back to the original Video Game model of distribution or fix their crafting economy.

Not being able to trade cards means the high-value assets for different decks simply aren't fungible. When you play Magic you can trade cards of similar value with other players or through a store and maybe someone gets like a 10% vig on the transaction by picking up a throw-in here or there to sweeten the pot. In HS you trade at a 4:1 ratio and its awful.

Yet HS insists on abandoning their original model of Classic + Naxxramas - 1 collectible set + factory-set (non-collectible) expansion priced like a DLC game expansion - and moving further and further into the TCG model: continuous release of large collectible sets, Standard rotation, "retiring" every-green cards from Standard because they see too much play. Doing this without the fungible nature of the TCG and locking you into a 75% loss crafting system of a fixed-content video game is stupidly ignorant, destructively greedy, or both.

[–]FalconGK81 632 ポイント633 ポイント  (70子コメント)

Doing this without the fungible nature of the TCG and locking you into a 75% loss crafting system of a fixed-content video game is stupidly ignorant, destructively greedy, or both.

I'm gonna go with destructively greedy, since I don't think they're stupid.

As Marco Rubio once said: Let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that Activision-Blizzard doesn’t know what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing.

[–]kaioto 206 ポイント207 ポイント  (7子コメント)

One of the worst parts about it isn't that it's hard to get by as a F2P, but the current system actively punishes you with diminishing returns for buying more packs. That's a real kick in the balls to people looking to put in a moderate amount of cash into the game. I want to reiterate this point:

[In MtG] if you got a 5th Hallowed Fountain in a draft or pack prizes that was going to translate directly into your 4th Overgrown Tomb, not 1/4 of that Overgrown Tomb. Open a second Crystal Caverns? Get bent. Due to the HS crafting economy you actually get less value per pack the closer you get to completing the set. Your average collection value increase per pack of MTG stays fixed.

[–]FalconGK81 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Another point well made. When the original Ravnica block released, I knew the lands would be staples for a long time, so I traded for a playset of each. I even opened a foil Watery Grave and found a guy who would trade me 2 Overgrown Tombs and a Watery Grave for it.

In Hearthstone, that foil Watery Grave would have gotten me a single Overgrown Tomb.

[–]ForWhomTheBoneBones 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And to add on to this, Blizzard doesn't even need to give us the chance to make a trade that's even slightly lopsided. If we could trade with friends, and not the whole world, cards of the same value, it would give us a 1:1 value.

It would incentivize buying more packs and being more social, both things Blizzard desperately wants us to do. Instead, they are going full-steam ahead with relying on Whales to make more money, making the game less and less viable to new players every year.

The loss of adventures, whether it's an issue with their crappy platform that requires you to re-download the ENTIRE app every time there's an update or greediness or both, was the big signal to all of us that they really DO NOT care about new players anymore.

[–]Highside79 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Put more simply. In most TCG if you get a "Legendary" you don't need, you can trade it pretty much straight across for one you do. In HS, it is worth 1/4 of new card. Hence, the more cards you have the less a new pack is worth.

[–]drwsgreatest 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is exactly why I don't spend a dime. I keep saying "guarantee me 85%-90% of a set (minus some of the legendaries and an epic or 2) and I would gladly spend $100" but the fact is that, not only will that amount most likely not get me even close when actually opening the packs, but the dust return on the cards that I get more than dupe copies of is so negligible that it can only be used to craft a couple of the cards I didn't end up unpacking even if that number ends up being 30-40 common cards.

Continuing mid-sized purchases should be what blizzard is going after. I would much rather have 20 million customers that pay $10-$20 every few months than only a few hundred thousand than drop $100 or more per expansion. Unfortunately, blizzard seems much happier having a small amount of large spenders, although that makes the company all the more vulnerable should those players ever decide to leave the game en masse.

[–]DannySeel 117 ポイント118 ポイント  (30子コメント)

As Marco Rubio once said 5 times in the course of 10 minutes

[–]Rhawk187 74 ポイント75 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Not to get political, but I think that seriously cost him a lot of momentum. Especially when he did it immediately after Christie pointed it out. I'm still not sure anyone could have derailed Trump, but it could have been a lot more competitive.

[–]Only1nDreams 70 ポイント71 ポイント  (20子コメント)

That debate was the end of Rubio's campaign. The public forever saw him as Marco Robio after that and there's not much you can do to repair a gaffe like that.

[–]Rhawk187 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Oh, they have short memories, he's young, and they know he was inexperienced, if he runs again, either in 8 years, or if Trump decides not to run again, I think he's got a chance.

[–]HBlight 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Everyone who lost to Trump does have the stigma of being someone who lost to trump.

[–]JewJulie 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even Hillary.

[–]ChristosMark 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

We're gonna need a modern version of Godwin's law, that eventually all internet discussion ends up at Trump.

[–]nv_it 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The law still stands: a properly heated discussion on Trump can easily be reduced to Hitler.

[–]foreverphoenix 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

After all, Hitler didn't gas anybody. What, what i mean to say is, is that, you know, he didn't, it wasn't, uh, you know, what happened was, they, uh, were, you know, they were sent to, uh, the holocaust centers, uh, you know.

[–]svrtngr 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Chris Christie did a murder-suicide with Marco Rubio that day.

[–]Only1nDreams 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (13子コメント)

The finance team understands that games have a life cycle. They know it's extremely unlikely for a video game to continue to grow for 10+ years (even WoW has tapered off since its crazy success). Their goal is to maximize value during the time the game has the greatest popularity. Welcome to Un'Goro. I would be willing to bet that quests have been kicking around the design floor for awhile, but the team knew they had to be legendary, and it would create a very expensive barrier to entry, so they had to wait until a certain point in the game's life cycle to not repel people with this kind of a mechanic. Imagine if quests had been released during GvG or TGT, when everyone was complaining that the game was P2W. It would've been much much worse and likely turned many people away just as the game was really gaining steam. An expansion like Un'Goro signals to me that Blizzard's thinks Hearthstone has hit its peak, and they want to start really cashing in.

editing because i had another thought about analytics

Also, do not forget that Blizzard knows EXACTLY what you're doing with respect to anything you as a player do in a Blizzard game. They have a huge advantage in monetizing you over other gaming companies because they can track how players allot their time between different games. They likely have customer segmentation models that track people who are diehard players of one/two games, people who switch back and forth between all their games, casual players, hardcore WoW players, people who are willing to spend, people who will die never having spent a cent on a microtransaction etc. Nevermind the kind of data they can purchase from other gaming companies. Here is an example of a guy who was "specially selected to receive" a free copy of Overwatch because he spent a ton on microtransactions in another game. The marketing team knows exactly who's playing what game, what their demographic stats are, what their purchasing preferences and patterns are, and any number of other metrics they want. They tell the finance team what kinds of content would be well received by the playerbase of each game. I'm guessing that Hearthstone is getting close to the point where new content is starting to appeal less and less to casual players. This means that Hearthstone is well into the mature phase of its life cycle and you can expect one or two more expensive expansions before they start shifting resources towards other games and projects.

a final edit for my editorialization

I'm extremely happy with the content in Un'Goro. I've played this game since Naxx, spent well over $500USD on it, and have had 1000's of hours of enjoyment. I will echo Kripp in saying that the cards in Un'Goro are the most interesting and exciting cards ever printed. I am not one of the cynics who think Blizz needs to change and appeal to the whole playerbase. I'm just explaining the rationale for the expansion from a business perspective. As a Blizzard investor, I'm happy with the direction they're going as a company and am extremely excited for the next few expansions in Hearthstone and for Overwatch.

[–]Timmah1234 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The only sad thing is that Hearthstone is a card game and a pretty decent one. Other good card games have crazy long lives. (look at MTG and pokemon)

Blizzard could easily capitalize on this for the next 20+ years if they implemented a few things to make it slightly less expensive and appeal to more players.

[–]Only1nDreams 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It will be. The players who want to spend will continue to spend and Blizzard is going to cater to them. There is a financial model somewhere in the Blizzard HQ that says the amount of increased revenue offset the players they would lose by dialing up the paywall. They're finding the sweet spot for the most profitable paywall in an expansion. My hope is that Un'Goro is slightly too high but time will tell.

[–]Exatasator 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Idk man I feel like Hearthstone has so much untapped potential and ability to grow as a game with different game modes and new ideas. I think it would be very defeatist of Team 5 to accept the game will lose relevancy soon and decide to cash out now when they have left so much unexplored and when they seem to be doing well.

[–]Only1nDreams 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It does, and they might, but the current model is driving a lot of revenue for them, so there's no point in risking it when they have other projects on the go.

They are experimenting with some new stuff (Fireside Gatherings for example) but it ain't broke, so they ain't gonna fix it.

Also, to clarify, they aren't cashing out, they're cashing in. They've developed a massive amount of player investment in the game and can up the price for enjoyment accordingly. If people are willing to pay more, they're going to keep creating crazier and crazier stuff.

[–]Sabre_Actual 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They don't have any real competition. Games like Gwent, Elder Scrolls Legends, and the one with the anime schoolgirls are probably great, and for many might even be better than Hearthstone, but Hearthstone is the WoW of its genre, in that it has huge market share and accessibility.

[–]elveszett 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oooh I missed that meme.

Let's mass dispel once and for all with this fiction that Activision-Blizzard doesn't know what they're doing. They know EXACTLY what they're doing. Blizzard is undertaking a systematic effort to change this game, to make Hearthstone more like the rest of the TCGs.

That's why he passed Standard Format and the expansion-stimulus and more powerful epics and the deal with Disguised Toast. It is a systematic effort to change Hearthstone. When I'm president of Activision-Blizzard, we are going to re-embrace all the things that made Hearthstone the greatest TCG in the world and we are going to leave our Lifecoach with what he deserves: the single greatest TCG in the history of the world.

[–]billyK_ 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Make Hearthstone Great Again?

[–]Regelope 86 ポイント87 ポイント  (9子コメント)

That's the idea yes. We even have our own Trump.

[–]ChiefDutt 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The other part of Magic is sharing cards. I have several friends that I play with and we just trade decks around. Before it got banned we had a modern splinter twin deck running all the fetch lands, snapcasters, everything. It cost us mostly nothing, because we had all been collecting the cards for a while and just shared them to make the deck

[–]raiedite 92 ポイント93 ポイント  (34子コメント)

Standard rotation, "retiring" every-green cards from Standard

I really want to insist on the fact that while you could say "WILD EXISTS", they have no incentive to take Wild seriously.

From a design perspective, they pushed themselves into an imbalanced mess of a gamemode, and from an economic perspective, the less Wild is supportedstill no fucking wild packs, the more people turn to standard and rely on fresh new cards.

It would take a completely new approach to curating the game to turn this around. Instead Team5 relies on design by landfill because it's not only easier for the design team, but allows a constant stream of revenue through deleting old content and selling massive quantities of "new"

[–]Sufyries 126 ポイント127 ポイント  (31子コメント)

The "Wild exists" touting fanboys on this forum sicken me. Where the fuck has there been any indication that wild is supported at all? No Wild store (because people are clearly retarded and it would be too confusing), no wild tournaments, no indication of balance being present in Wild.

Wild is literally a card graveyard that was invented so people didn't become too outraged that their current collection was getting cut in half with no refund.

EDIT: I know no balancing being a part of Wild isn't an indication that Blizzard doesn't care necessarily, and that some people want/know that Wild become a broken mess of ridiculous combos and turn 3 kills eventually, and I'll concede that point, but everything else indicates that Blizzard doesn't care.

[–]thegooblop 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Say whatever you want about Wild, but it's way more than a graveyard. 12 of my 18 decks are Wild decks, and every single one of them is super fun to play and not possible in Standard.

Secrets Mage is my favorite deck of all time, and unlike in Standard the Wild version is actually fairly good, with more secrets in the pool and Mad Scientist still existing.

Hobgoblin is a super interesting card that gets support every expansion, the Tar taunt minions in the current set are amazing with him and the 1/4 taunt that discovers a taunt is great, Hunter's new 1-drop deck can add him, the poisonous taunt 1/2 works with him, and the 1/2 Firefly that adds another 1/2 to your hand is basically a 2nd echoing ooze with him, but more flexible. With the cards I just mentioned I actually tried a Taunt-Hobgoblin warrior, because you can fill half a deck with 1 attack taunts that are actually good now, and the deck was fun and actually decent. I had someone add me after a game and we talked a bit about it, because they didn't have hobgoblin but they were playing taunt warrior. That never happens in Standard, EVERYONE uses the same netdecks. I can easily play a dozen Wild games and get a different opposing deck each time.

It's cheaper too for the people that have been around. I don't need to spend money on the game anymore because the game has enough old cards to mess with. I opened like 30 packs of Un'goro and no legendary yet, but I didn't need to unpack one because I just crafted Elise and the quests I wanted with the free dust I got for my Rag and Sylvanas, which I still use in Wild. I'll do the same sort of thing next expansion, as soon as I hit a legendary in an Un'goro pack I'm saving up for the next expansion and if I need any cards for a deck I want I'll just craft them.

tl;dr Wild is fun and has more diversity than Standard, both for your options and the opponent.

[–]Sufyries 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I never said Wild isn't fun, because I think it is very fun. I would never make that claim because fun is subjective and I can't support an argument about something that is based purely on opinion.

My argument was that Wild is not supported. Wild exists in spite of Blizzard, not because. You could argue, "How does Wild exist IN SPITE of Standard, Blizzard invented Wild!" Blizzard made Wild because they had to, not because they wanted to. Wild gets 0% of Blizzards attention, and Blizzard doesn't want Wild to survive because if they did, they would have Wild packs in store.

[–]thegooblop 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (13子コメント)

The thing you don't seem to get is that Wild doesn't need Blizzard's attention, it's self-sustaining. Some of the best things in video games are unintentional, Super Smash Bros fans should recognize this as millions of players STILL prefer Melee to this day because it added tons of tiny little unintentional things (or things used for reasons that were unintended) like L-canceling and Wavedashing. Does Melee suck because Nintendo doesn't support it and they didn't intend for it to do what it did? No, it's great in spite of that, just like Wild!

Wild will naturally get support over time, it's just guaranteed. This set added TONS of interesting new cards for my Hobgoblin deck, even though Hobgoblin isn't officially supported anymore, because they printed like a dozen new 1-attack minions with cool effects. They added a ton of new beasts and new murlocs, which changes established Wild decks even if Blizzard doesn't intend for that. There are new 2-drops for Shredder to spawn, and new combo pieces for many cards, and it's awesome.

[–]Sufyries 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (11子コメント)

You've addressed every one of my points except for Wild packs and adventures being removed from the store. What's the explanation for that? That is my strongest supporting piece of evidence for my claim.

[–]metralo 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Idk. Wild is more fun and there's a lot more deck building possibility.

[–]Possiblyreef 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wild is basically Hearthstones version of modern in MTG.

Having access to a bigger card pool allows for higher average power and more shenanigans, imo more fun

[–]GlabadosChurch 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My guess is that Wild doesn't make Blizzard nearly as much as Standard. You need a lot less cards from each new expansion to be viable if you are a veteran player.

[–]Budfox_92 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's 5:1 for a rare and 8:1 for a common the most popular cards give you the least amount of dust how fair

[–]AcornHarvester 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hearthstone: the first buying-card game, separate from all other trading card games...

[–]cheese758 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

TIL fungible is a word

[–]scott610 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I saw this word being used yesterday as well, then realized it was by the same user after checking comment history. At least 9 uses of the word on the first page of comments. It's like when someone learns a new word and has to use it at every opportunity. Not that having a well developed vocabulary is a bad thing.

Edit: Replaced a word.

[–]roslolian 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (18子コメント)

having trading is actually a bad idea, it creates middle men who inflate the cost of stuff. Right now the 4:1 ratio is bad but at least the cost is uniform and spread out throughout all the legendaries. On the other hand look at Magic, what happens is almost all of crap legends go for pennies but good and necessary legends like Tarmagoyf before cost hundreds if not a thousand dollars PER card. It's not just in Magic, look at Dota 2 or League of legends, skins that have no actual effect on game play cost WAY higher than normal simply because the demand is higher...which is dumb because these are all digital resources no matter how high the demand is the supply is also infinite. That's what trading does, it inflates the prices and instead of the company getting all the profit it's actually the middle men who get all the profit because they would buy packs at the same low rate and then sell the chase rares at extremely high prices to recoup their investment. HS itself has no need of middle men because you can disenchant and craft cards by yourself, in the long run that uniform rate is cheaper than having the price dictated by these middlemen.

I have no idea if you're a long time TCG player or not but FYI a full set of Magic lands which according to you is "fungible" would cost more than buying the entire set through packs, disenchanting the extra cards and then crafting the missing legendaries. A rough estimate for a full set of the expansion is around 300 packs or around $300. In comparison, your "fungible" Magic the Gathering would cost the same amount for just 2-3 decks simply because the middle man inflates the price of chase rares and that's assuming you can find enough buyers who will buy all your duplicate cards, otherwise you will have tons of cards you don't need just lying around the house or w/e. To compare HS to traditional TCGs and act like HS isn't way cheaper is just blatant distortion of the facts.

[–]jn110 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

All of the effects you describe are caused by trading being the ONLY way to get desired cards in something like MTG. In Hearthstone, if you leave the crafting system in place but ADD trading on top of it, you have a natural ceiling and floor for the price of each card (cards will never sell for less than the dust value, or fetch more than the crafting cost).

[–]ad3z10 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I can't speak for LoL but in DotA at least the highest value items definitely don't have infinite supply, any $1,000+ item is going to only have a few hundred copies in circulation, most of which aren't for sale.

[–]Zomgambush 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He means potential. Rito or valve could simply flip a switch and allow users to get skins. Printing physical cards requires far greater investment to create additional supply (shipping/production/etc)

[–]kaioto 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've done the whole "grinder" thing in Magic the Gathering back in the day, made some nice GP money on it too. Your argument rests on a fundamental misunderstanding as to how one builds competitive decks in Standard and curates a physical collection of Magic cards. Here's the point that seems to escape you:

You don't need a complete collection to be able to play any deck with any card in MTG Standard. All you need is to accumulate enough value in fungible cards to make the most expensive deck. They you just put in the effort of trading out from one deck to the other. To achieve this level of access in HS you must complete the entire set because the cards are never fungible.

For example, if you got a 5th Hallowed Fountain in a draft or pack prizes that was going to translate directly into your 4th Overgrown Tomb, not 1/4 of that Overgrown Tomb. Open a second Crystal Caverns? Get bent. Due to the HS crafting economy you actually get less value per pack the closer you get to completing the set. Your average collection value increase per pack of MTG stays fixed.

You don't need to have all the cards that go into 5 different top-tier Magic decks at the same time to be able to play those decks in an upcoming event. You only need to have one or two configured at a time and the ability to switch cards out of your collection efficiently.

Consequently, to have ready access to every card in a new Magic expansion you only need to have accumulated a critical mass of fungible assets. In the case of HS you must have collected a full play-set of every card through pack purchases and ridiculously inefficient crafting.

[–]throwawaytr3es 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you, I'm glad that you understand. One thing about magic is that it's really rare to encounter decks with those stupidly expensive cards, because they are both expensive, and are held by a lot of collectors who don't play with them. If you're playing with people who are just steamrolling your deck knowingly with a stupid 3-turn win infinite damage infinite draw deck, or something, then they're dicks. My LGS has an awesome group of people across all levels of skill. I've shown up with $30 and built a deck out of packs. I've shown up with an incredibly expensive meta gamed out deck. Every time I've shown up with whatever, I always manage to find someone to play with on par with my deck. And if I don't, they're always willing to share strategies or deck build.

[–]Tatorak 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

can't speak to League, but DOTA 2 has a community market where you can get aesthetics at pretty low prices compared to the official store, and the community market is fully supported by Valve. It's also completely different because as you point out, they have zero effect on actual gameplay. Hearthstone is entirely dependent on which cards you have, and since many decks (especially in Un'goro with quests) are reliant on having specific cards, it's especially egregious that you have to give up 4 cards of the same rarity to get a vital card just to play an arcehtype that you want especially if you aren't guaranteed any reliable source of epics or legendaries to dust.

tl;dr packs are expensive, it's incredibly difficult to get specific cards, Valve runs business well that leaves everybody happy

[–]karneykode 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The difference is, if I invest in a goyf or a set of fetches, they retain their value. If I give up on Zoo and want to switch to affinity, a singleton goyf is going to buy nearly the entire deck (minus Moxes).

If I invest in a legendary in Hearthstone, I am getting limited return if I choose to change decks.

[–]Velobroo 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The reward system for this game is designed for vanilla because that's they how originally wanted it to turn out. They are making shitloads of money of you suckers.

[–]Ferbtastic 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly, I stopped play HS a while ago (came here from r/all). The solution is simple. Stop paying for cards. Full stop. Just don't do it. Every time you buy cards pretend you are sending a letter to Blizzard that says "I really like the way you are handing in game purchases, don't change a thing. Please god don't change a thing."

[–]LHKSC2 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is why I don't play hearthstone. I didnt get in early and the investment to get started is too high. I don't wanna spend 6months to a year grinding out cards just to be where people are now. I'd rather play gwent.

[–]zuazu 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (7子コメント)

OR F.) SELL DECK RECIPE CARDS OR G.) SELL INDIVIDUAL CARDS WITH DUST/GOLD OR G.) TRIPLE PACK SIZES

[–]Ronald_Johnsons 1715 ポイント1716 ポイント  (206子コメント)

I bet they don't have to change a thing and this game will remain a cash cow for years to come.

[–]Progression28 513 ポイント514 ポイント  (134子コメント)

The only thing blizzard needs to think about: whether they want a cash cow for 2-3 years (current model) or want to build a cash cow for 10+ years. The latter means keeping players, getting new players, rewarding people with cards etc etc

Edit: typo

[–]DickBatman 206 ポイント207 ポイント  (40子コメント)

You're right, but generally f2p games do the former not the latter. They milk the players for all they're worth until it's too late and then they change their model. The one I played and which broke my heart was Tribes Ascend.

[–]xskilling 153 ポイント154 ポイント  (26子コメント)

Diablo 3 also started exactly like this until they lost such a massive player base that they removed the auction house and changed game directors for the launch of reaper of souls

Hearthstone is not losing players at any alarming rate so I honestly don't think blizzard would do anything about it

I have no idea how long the majority of the HS community would finally say enough is enough

[–]Samuraiking 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (10子コメント)

It's going to be a while. Even the people who are absolutely furious are logging in every 3 days to do quests for an hour and then log off. This is clocking them as 'active players' so as long as the whales keep buying massive amounts of packs and the game is profitable to some degree, they will never write it off as dead, even if only 10,000 were actually "playing" it, which is far from true. This is one of their most active games despite their bullshit.

D3 didn't have any login rewards or daily system of any kind. So when people got tired of the game, they didn't log back in and it was easy to see no one was playing. I'm sure PR played a big factor as well, that is worth more than money sometimes. HS is getting praise over the cards, which is either outweighing or at least canceling out the negative bitching about their pricing system. And the cash flow is the same, so no need for them to worry about it right now.

[–]MrBokbagok 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even the people who are absolutely furious are logging in every 3 days to do quests for an hour and then log off.

well, not all of us.

i spent about $350 to $400 between naxx and whispers of the old gods.

since i bought ONiK i haven't touched the game or spent a dollar. its just boring and expensive. its the same aggro nonsense over and over again and the cost of keeping up is getting too high, especially for a game i actively don't want to play and which removes my investment every yearly rotation. the removal of adventures was basically the nail in the coffin for me, im sure i'm not alone.

id rather spend my gaming budget elsewhere at this point

[–]BEEF_SUPREEEEEEME 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Tribes Ascend.

God damn I miss that game. Didn't spend much on it but it was such a blast.

[–]willpauer 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I still hope that every single person at Hi-Rez involved in the decision to abandon Tribes Ascend is ruined financially and spiritually. They're all a bunch of bastards.

[–]MyFirstOtherAccount 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's pretty evident that Blizz doesn't care about making Hearthstone a flagship product. Instead of making countless improvements to the client/game (ie replays, messaging/board system a la SC2, Custom game modes, etc) they just leave it as is and churn out cards to generate some income on the side.

[–]DorilMagefont 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Cynic here. I agree that this reward system sucks, but I don't think NOT changing will make this game die in 2-3 years.

 

We gamers (collective we) are retarded: even though we complain and complain, for some inexplicable reason we still throw money at them. Just look at all the people who said "I spent money before on Hearthstone for [insert expansion here] and was upset. Now, I spent money on Un'goro and I'm still upset". Why did they not stop spending money after the first time? We're just encouraging the dev's bad behavior to continue with their dumb system. Therefore, they have no incentive to change until we (collective we) get smarter about "voting with our wallets".

 

Just look at WOW: people have complained for ages about the recycled content/how stale it is, and yet it's still generating revenue (IE. Hasn't died yet).

[–]PoliteAndPerverse 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (20子コメント)

The player base is just growing and growing, we have had threads about how expansion x has doomed the game or how it's impossible to afford literally every time they reveal new cards, and it's still around.

People in threads like this need to remember that they're a vocal minority, most players just durdle around below level 15 and don't ever really spend much time theorizing or obsessing about that blizzard game they have on their phone.

They could literally lose half the player base RIGHT NOW and still be making money hand over fist with a player base way bigger than it was in the first two years.

Until a serious competitor appears they're going to keep on truckin.

Peple on /r/hearthstone and the talking heads on twitch are such a minute part of the player base that we can be safely ignored until something happens to drive away players in relevant numbers.

[–]PhoenixDog 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (13子コメント)

The player base is just growing and growing

Source? Everywhere I look there's fewer people enjoying the game.

[–]lanclos 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Real numbers aren't regularly released because it could affect Activision's value on the stock market. All we have is some vague hand-waving.

I am reasonably sure that this subreddit is not representative of the overall player pool. So, if /r/Hearthstone is subjectively enjoying Hearthstone less, I can't correlate that to the overall health of the game.

[–]oligobop 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Blizzards games appeal to a much broader audience than just reddit. It's crazy how many redditors consider their opinions to be the general consensus for the entire population of the game.

[–]ashabousha 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So what you are saying is for all of us to lose enough to hover below 15 and beat up the newbies with OP meta decks that they can't afford until they get bored and wonder off. I'm on it. Be right back

[–]Vayce 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (11子コメント)

weather = The state of the atmosphere at a place and time as regards heat, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc.

whether = indicating that a statement applies whichever of the alternatives mentioned is the case.

wether = a castrated male sheep.

[–]Ghostronic 129 ポイント130 ポイント  (7子コメント)

werther: fucking awesome candy

edit: listen here u little shits

[–]ThinkPan 79 ポイント80 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Found the senior citizen

[–]bagels666 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Son I been suckin' on Werther's since age 4. Them shits is all ages.

[–]Taxouck 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's true tho, these caramel candies are the sh*t.

[–]Culinarytracker 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Found Grandpa.

[–]_DrFeltersnatch 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (12子コメント)

That's what I used to think about a year ago.

However, now that they're dropping 3 expansions every year with 130+ new cards, this model can't continue to be as successful as it once was. New players are SOL, and casual players are as well unless they want to drop $50 every 3-4 months to pick up a PORTION of the new cards. It's not player-friendly and I expect people will finally start to see that.

A game like this needs new players to join and stick around for it to be successful. Every day, people stop playing this game for good, and every day, new players pick it up for the first time. Those new players are going to hit a wall very quickly and realize they can't compete without spending an absurd amount of money on virtual goods.

Something needs to change or the game will die. It's healthy right now, because there are so many of us who have been playing for YEARS and have built up a huge collection of cards. But when the next expansion drops, I'm not so sure I'm going to want to keep playing if they introduce another game-defining mechanic (like Adapt) that will require a new set of cards.

[–]Ronald_Johnsons 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I doubt they saw a drop in pre orders even after announcing they were moving away from adventures. That should have alarmed people there, yet I'm sure it sold like hot cakes.

They may have to take another look at their model in the future and hopefully will. I just don't think that time is now.

And haven't new players always been SOL since they added standard?

[–]penceyreject 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

agreed! ive been playing since the beta and consistently at that and i hate having this sudden onslaught of new cards all the time. i was perfectly fine with having one adventure and an expansion per year. i was just getting used to mean streets and we already have new cards. for some reason,i really am not feeling this set at all. i hate adapt. id be so fucking frustrated if i was a new player trying to keep up with all of this madness

[–]robin_capuz 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I complained a about how expensive it was on the first expansion. People downvoted me to hell, telling me to get a job.

If you spend 300$ in a game and still don't have what you want, it's freaking expensive. And that keeps happening every few months.

Like you said, it's too late to complain. They'll not change much, if anything.

[–]snowlarbear 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

nah, in case of emergency, break out the Diablo, SC, and Overwatch HS expansions.

[–]HannibalXD 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (37子コメント)

I bet they don't have to change a thing and this game will remain a cash cow for years to come.

Others have bet on such assumptions as well, in the past. The gaming industry is a strange one though. One day you're the best and the next a better game has been released. It sure wont be happening overnight though.

[–]themoneybadger 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (19子コメント)

Blizzard has such strong and ubiquitous ip that they'll always be a major player in gaming these days.

[–]justmikethen 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (15子コメント)

But not infallible. Look at Path of Exile vs Diablo. Which community is more active now?

If you fuck up badly enough and a competitor offers a better experience you open that door to be overtaken.

[–]TMilitar 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lol. In terms of revenues, Diablo 3 + the expansion has sold more than 30 million copies, and that figure is 2 years old now.

Path of exile had its highest active player base with the release of 2.6 at about 112k active users online at once.

If Diablo 4 were to be announced and released within the next few months (not going to happen obviously). PoEs player base would be nonexistent.

[–]Ronald_Johnsons 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So much this. Just look at other card games trying to replicate the success of using a huge and widely loved IP. It's not the game itself that made HS what it is.

[–]ScottyC33 87 ポイント88 ポイント  (22子コメント)

I want them to add daily login rewards (increasing reward for logging in and playing a game each day, separate from the quests). Let them give vanilla packs/out of rotation packs each day to build up old card collections. There's no way I'd ever spend money or gold on old out of rotation packs, but I'd still like to "eventually" be able to collect some of those cards for wild/fun. I doubt they'd lose much revenue, and it would add a drive to login every day and keep playing a bit more.

[–]Zeekfox 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (20子コメント)

Here, have a picture of Shadowverse's daily login reward screen. Days 1-4 = 20 gold, days 6-9 = 30 gold, days 11-14 = 40 gold. Days 5 and 10 gives you a pack, and day 15 gives you a free Arena run. After that, it goes back to day 1. The days don't have to be consecutive either, so it's more like a punchcard. The next time I log in will be a day 4, and I know I've completed the entire thing twice already.

[–]zhaoz 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (10子コメント)

How much does 20 gold buy you? 1/5 a pack like in HS?

[–]yoshiboy44 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yes

[–]Sakuyalzayoi 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (6子コメント)

but there's more animated cards, 8 cards a pack, and much easier to get golds/epics and legendaries

[–]tentacleseverywhere 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (5子コメント)

at the same time though, Shadowverse allows for 3 copies (including legendaries) in a deck, which equates to overall deck recipes needing a lot more vials

[–]Zeekfox 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the same in Shadowverse, where packs cost 100. Shadowverse gives you 3 quests a day though, and it's not that hard to get something like "6 ranked wins = 1 pack" as one of your three quests.

But even if 20 gold isn't much, getting an extra pack every 5th day would be pretty darn awesome. Remember how excited the community was over getting a pack a week from the Tavern Brawl?

[–]coy47 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But also keep in mind you get 3 quests a day and also you have achievements that give 1 time bonuses like levlling each class. Beating the 7 AI on the two hardest difficulty gives 14 packs of gold. To top that off you have your score rewards which basically when you win and gain points these accumulate unlocking rewards from a list each month which include profile pictures, card backs, gold and vials (dust). As well as also packs and I believe take two tickets (free arena run.)

Plus they give youa bunch when you start playing and when an expansion hits.

[–]meatwhisper 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to mention Eternal, where you get a card plus gold for every win, daily quests (some of which give you free packs), the ability to keep draft/arena cards you pull, 100 free dust for opening a pack, 15 cards in every pack, a 10% chance at opening a legendary in every pack including drafting, etc etc...

[–]Kyuojin 309 ポイント310 ポイント  (31子コメント)

They could, but they won't. Simple point as long as their system is making them revenue they have 0 reason or obligation to change it in any way. So until people stop buying backs en masse in some form don't expect anything. Remember the F2P base are the players they care about the least. You guys get them literally nothing

[–]protXx 70 ポイント71 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't know man, Riot is constantly changing League of Legends. I returned in October after 2 years hiatus and I was surprised how things changed for the better. It feels like a better game.

Meanwhile on Hearthstone: Same old, same old. We don't even have SALES even though almost every game has those. No discounts. No events (I don't count Winter veil as en event as it's just a skin change of the game, nothing more). No new gamemodes since 2015. No 2v2, no tournament mode, no rotating sets every month.

[–]XxNerdKillerxX 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There was a sale for classic packs at one point. Kind of like a new player start-up promotion, but anyone could buy it (once). It didn't last long though so yeah, they seem really stingy on sales.

[–]nintynineninjas 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (6子コメント)

And we're suggesting that this will cost them paying players.

[–]simward 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (3子コメント)

When it does cost them paying players they'll see it and they'll adjust their scheme. They most certainly do not care about whatever F2P emotion's are on the matter as long as money comes in.

[–]SmashNess 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (1子コメント)

F2P players easily become P2W players if they realize the paywall isn't so big. What happens now is a lot of potencial new players just giving up because it's nearly impossible to catch up.

They could give all new players the cards from at least the first 2 expansions so they can at least enjoy wild with a little something. Since it's very unlikely new players will spend cash on wild cards anyway, why the hell not??

[–]fireky2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean the game cant operate without free players unless they want 15 minute queue times.

[–]TypicalProtest 277 ポイント278 ポイント  (19子コメント)

You can tell how blizz feels about this by the deafening silence.

They have given zero response on this - a topic which has been talked about since the eu price increase and yet we have had zero "community engagement" from them on this topic becuase they either

A. Don't care or

B. Are hoping upon hope we all just suddenly forget how much they love to ass fuck us.

I started playing overwatch recently and oh my god the difference in how the community is handled is like night and day.

[–]harpydiem 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (1子コメント)

the silence actually makes me despise the brand when before i was just annoyed.

[–]aduck16 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (6子コメント)

To be fair, this isn't something team 5 is in charge of, any price change or increase in gold probably has to go all the way to the top before any discussion can even begin. I think this will become a way more prominent issue next expansion, where no one f2p will be able to keep up anymore

[–]TypicalProtest 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I realise the actual pricing structure is something team 5 (probably) don't handle. However it is their job to address and discuss concerns within the community. And this is a massive one. Hundreds (potentially thousands?) Of their customers are pissed and feel ripped off and they don't think that warrents a response?

[–]Definitely NOT Nat PagleFishermanHS 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

However it is their job to address and discuss concerns within the community.

You must be new here. LOL.

Here, I'll give you a few ways they'll address almost any issue:

  • "We're aware and are looking into it..."

  • "It's on our radar..."

  • "HAHAHAHA"

  • "......"

[–]Alex_Keaton 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

B. Are hoping upon hope we all just suddenly forget how much they love to ass fuck us.

There's just no way this happens as expansions are coming more frequently. In fact I think it'll get louder and more and more people will stop buying/playing.

[–]2daMooon 404 ポイント405 ポイント  (40子コメント)

You missed option f) You stop playing the game. They don't have to do anything as long as they are happy with their conversion of new players into paying customers and the money the game is making.

[–]red_naz 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (5子コメント)

F

But seriously though, if you feel that it's no longer accessible to you, just... stop playing and hope that blizz will change their mind.

[–]webu 129 ポイント130 ポイント  (17子コメント)

This is the option I took about a year and a half ago. I'm still subbed here because I thought "maybe the Activision company will stop acting like an Activision company", but alas... maybe I should just call the spade a spade & unsub.

[–]h5h77 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i stopped playing when they raised the EU prices. Feel pretty vindicated coming here from r/all

[–]Softcorps_dn 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The problem is, if they ever do adjust their game model, you will then be X months behind.

I came back after BRM and LoE had already been released (and GvG was basically on it's way out) and it took a long time to get caught up on the new cards without paying any money.

[–]Dr_ZoidbergHomeowner 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same. I actually stopped back when Patron warrior was the only thing people were playing. Still follow the game somewhat but everything I've read and watched hasn't renewed my interest.

[–]wampastompah 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is important to not give the game money while complaining about the state of the game, but I have to believe that constructive feedback is much more useful than just leaving silently. I realize that this thread and many on this subreddit aren't 100% constructive, but it is good for the community to speak its voice. Wouldn't it be better that Blizzard knows where it went wrong, rather than to just leave silently?

Personally, I used to love Hearthstone. I want to see it fixed. I haven't played in quite a while, but I stick around for conversations just like this, in the hopes that it can be fun again.

[–]Vyxtic 81 ポイント82 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Guys it's simply, stoo spending money on HS if you want to see a change.

[–]TradePrinceGobbo 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly. We either riot or boycott the next expansion, but if you're complaining and planning to buy the next expansion, your part of the problem kiddos,

[–]Mydst 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Just a reminder that Gwent gives you 100 gold for the first three wins each day. And they are still on the basic card set, no expansions.

Carry on.

[–]Ippildip 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So is Gwent the new Legends the new Duelyst? I see these mentioned every time the ire is raised, but do they actually compete with the overall quality level of Hearthstone?

[–]Mydst 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It competes with quality level as it's made by CDPR (Witcher games) although it's still early beta. That said, it's NOT like HS at all. It is a digital CCG though and the reward structure is infinitely better.

I don't call it a "Hearthstone killer" but I expect it to do very well alongside HS as a different type of game. Logging in and winning 3 games to get a pack feels great though.

[–]ArmaniBerserker 440 ポイント441 ポイント  (44子コメント)

You could start buying more packs. I think you'll be surprised how much your outlook on the game changes when you plan to spend $50/mo on packs. The main thing it does is vastly shrink the amount of time it takes to get cards. You'll notice the effect scales as well. Begin to spend $200/mo, $1000/mo or more on packs, and you'll notice you have 4 to 20 times as much dust as before you started.

Personally, I think the fact that you can pay cash for packs is one of the game's best-kept secrets. Most people don't even seem to realize that you can get more and more cards just by paying! If you keep paying, you can have so many of every card that the collection manager just says "9+" for everything! Imagine the power of having 9+ Boogeymonsters!

[–]j4trail 564 ポイント565 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Another great idea is to sell your car and buy packs with that money. The fact that you'll have to stay home and play hearthstone all day amplifies the effectiveness of the packs you have bought! Which is a super good deal.

[–]HannibalXD 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Hold my beer.

[–]j4trail 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (4子コメント)

WTS half a beer, WTB 40 dust.

[–]HannibalXD 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

hey buddy...do you have ..umm...10 dust?

[–]TechieWithCoffee 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What beer? You spent money on a beer instead of buying more packs?!

[–]HannibalXD 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh dear me, I'm so thick !
Thank you friend. I will not repeat this mistake ever again.

[–]EnderBoy 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You laugh, but there's a legitimate reason you'd want to have 9 Boogeymonsters.

You can dust 8 of them, craft a Golden Boogeymonster, and still have one regular one left over for your collection. That way, if you ever draft 2 Boogeymonsters in Arena, your opponent will see the golden one and you can still surprise him later with the second.

[–]Slajso 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Some of us work for 500$ per month ;)

[–]ArmaniBerserker 222 ポイント223 ポイント  (7子コメント)

So, one of the cool things about society is that you can go deeply into debt! People will just give you this money now that you don't have to pay back until later. It's crazy, I dunno how they do it, but you can take advantage of it in order to get more packs.

All you have to do is ask for loans, then the money gets put right into your bank account and you can give it to Blizzard! You can keep asking around at each bank you come across. Most of them will be willing to help you get more cards if you ask.

[–]FalconGK81 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (6子コメント)

So, one of the cool things about society is that you can go deeply into debt!

AND, since this isn't student loan debt, you can discharge it all in bankruptcy court! It's not like they can take your assets from you, cause they're all just pixels on some screen. Pure genius!

[–]HannibalXD 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Oh man ! so many good ideas in here. I was just gonna sell my car, but now I plan on getting at least 20-30 k on loan as well. I'm gonna be rich !

[–]FalconGK81 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

So much dust you can just craft and dust cards repeatedly just cause you can. You'll be so pro in no time.

[–]HannibalXD 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So I could even reach top legend and maybe play in Blizzcon finals?
THE EXCITEMENT !! I think my wife wont like this though...
Meh..I'll just divorce her, and let her have the kids as well. HS glory HERE I COME !

[–]Feracon 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This a thousand times. Guys if you just do what it takes to buy the packs you'll realize how much more fun the game can be. I've found selling crack or sucking dick (or both!) affords me a solid gaming experience, and I've never been happier.

[–]Vitztlampaehecatl 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just use my parents' money :)

[–]ampdamage 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know this is a joke post, but I honestly started having way more fun with the game once I started spending money on it. When you have access to all the cards, you win more and you have more fun doing it. I don't mind spending money on a game that I spend a large portion of my free time playing.

[–]HannibalXD 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thats what this post is saying too. Buy more, spend more, enjoy more. The 3 mores of life.

[–]Heemoglobin 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No this post is mocking you for spending real money in a p2w game

[–]MagnusCthulhu 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hahaha. "Have to."

[–]cindercide 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (1子コメント)

they wont do anything as long as people keep dumping 300$ every 4 months on expansions. the value for the money is the worst ive ever seen though on a video game. you can buy a massive game like zelda and all DlC for 90$ or you can pay 50$ for 0.35% of hearthstone every 3 months

[–]CSZDragon 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is so cool to play 10 games, 2win-8lose, and you get a BIG NOTHING for your time :) Ok, you get some xp, but if you have all lvl 60 hero, then nothing

[–]Joseph710 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (6子コメント)

They dont have to do anything and they wont. They know youll still keep giving them money and playing their game. It doesnt matter if you and another 500, 1000 or 10 000 stop playing if 20 000 more new players come. People are right on one thing, you can make them change things if you stop playing but there arent nearly enough players to do it. Maybe if this whole subreddit by some miracle stopped playing blizzard would do something but they dont care about you. Im sorry but they dont, they care about quantity not quality of their players obviously. Even when you say that you will stop playing or make a poll and 500 000 people would vote they wont play anymore chances are minimum 50% of them are bullshitting right after they realize there isnt really any good alternative to HS and they already have big part of their collection build up.

[–]Tyranobro 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I gave up on hoping for change in HS. Moved on to shadowverse. Much happier.

[–]Alrugardson 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hey, come and play Wild with us. You won't HAVE to spend crazy amount of money/gold/dust to have fun.

[–]jmcgit 148 ポイント149 ポイント  (61子コメント)

They could always go back to the way it was before, and have most of the Legendaries just be bad cards that nobody wants. It's the only reason people are just complaining now-- back in Gadgetzan you only needed Aya, Kazakus, and Patches. Eventually Finja enters the meta. Everything else is either a minor luxury or just bad.

[–]Sufyries 175 ポイント176 ポイント  (44子コメント)

The only reason people are complaining? The main reason people are complaining is, whether they realize it or not, the removal of adventures. If JTU was delayed and an adventure was launched, people would only have to spend $20 and have more time to collect gold to spend on the next expansion.

*Edit: Meant next expansion, not next adventure

[–]soursurfer 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the first time we've had 120+ card expansions released within a span of 4 months, so yeah, pocketbooks feeling a little tight for that reason I'm sure, on top of the other factors.

[–]Jstbcool 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The first release of this year wasn't going to be an adventure no matter what. They saw in 2015 that having 2 adventures and 1 expansion didn't add enough cards to the game so they decided in 2016 to change to 2 expansions and 1 adventure per year. This was at least partially due to fans being upset that adventures never provided enough cards to shake up the meta decks compared to expansions. Add into the fact a huge amount of cards just rotate out of standard, that would make putting a smaller adventure out first this year a really bad idea.

They've already said they're going to have a single player element to the next expansion similar to an adventure because they know many players enjoy those experiences. Hopefully that will mean adventure type quests with every expansion from here on out.

[–]brawlatwork 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's true but not really relevant.

The old system of alternating adventure-expansion was pretty much fine for F2P if you were dedicated.

The proposed system of every year being expansion-adventure-expansion was going to be rougher, raising concerns for F2P. It's more expensive, and nothing else was changed to counteract this added expense.

The final system of expansion-expansion-expansion is quite alarming for F2P, because still nothing else has been changed to deal with the added expense.

For the first time ever, we have 2 full expansions in a row. Yes, that was planned in the proposed system too. But it is still the first time either way. And another full expansion is just 3.5 months away. And no relief in sight after that, either. This is just the beginning of a very expensive trend.

[–]Mazuruu 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

So you're telling me legendaries were in a better state economy whise with Dr. Boom and co?

There were less legendary dependant decks but more overall strong/versitile ones wich you just got owned by if you didn't own them

[–]TechieWithCoffee 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's kind of their point. Dr. Boom, Sylvanus, Rag were all so good and versatile that they could be put into a variety of decks. How powerful and meta defining they were is a different topic. This is purely about how many legendaries there are and how many different decks you can play them in

[–]JohnJohnPT 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (17子コメント)

" it earns plenty of money already" it's a business... the game is secondary XD

[–]Rawrrik 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is a oversimplification. Their product is a game, and their business is to sell their product. Now, I don't claim to know the pricepoint their marketing department has reached to maximize their profits, but no customerbase is blind to value. Buying a game gives you as a player value in the form of entertainment, but at the same time in an online game you generate value for other players by being "content" for other customers. This equation is by no means static. With the decreased value you recieve in comparison to current content to stay relevant, it could be time to re-evaluate their reward structure/price point. Not to mention that going back on a reward system is usually badly recieved. Reward structures are almost always sticky, meaning they only really move in one direction.

All this being said, the price point they currently have might be the ideal one, but this notion of the game being secondary isn't right. The game is the product they sell, and they need players to stick around for both revenue, and filling their product with content.

[–]Denucci 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gwent "select between 3 cards" is the way to go. That would make opening packs way more dynamic as well.

[–]Rockyrock1221 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (25子コメント)

I dont get why they don't permanently add like a 7 day login reward type deal.

With each successive day you get a better reward, then the cycle resets.

Example: Day 1 - 20 dust Day 2 - 30 gold Day 3 - 40 dust Day 4 - 50 gold Day 5 - 50 gold + 50 Dust Day 6 - 1 pack from newest expansion Day 7 - 1 pack from newest expansion + 1 classic pack

Edit: yes the rewards can be argued, as it was just a rough example.

But the basic idea of login rewards should be implemented in some form IMO

[–]bdzz 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (23子コメント)

Because that would mean 223 packs a year for free for not playing the game. Just logging in. Then add the Tavern Brawls and spectate quest. They will never do that.

[–]waterbeardontcare 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They could always do a first win of the day bonus like this instead of a login reward. Most every "ftp" game now has some incentive to log on and play at least one game

[–]Enoikay 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They don't have to do anything if people keep buying stuff.

[–]NerdonSight 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This has a huge knock on effect to gameplay as well. The worse your decks (due to bad card pull variance/decks rotating out) the worse decks you have to create to complete dailies.

The average win/loss when trying to complete a "win" daily will suffer, possibly adding hours of time to something that would have taken minutes previously.

The longer it takes to complete a quest, the more frustrated a player and the quicker they'll reach a level of fatigue where they'll give up all together

[–]DaleoHS 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't play hearthstone anymore and only stumbled across this because it was at the top of my personalised Reddit page. I thought I'd add to the discussion with my reasoning for not playing.

I never played the game to compete with others. I made it to rank 5 once, quite a long time ago now, with control priest. I didn't play a ton but had a relatively large collection with around 70% of the golden priest cards (and neutrals in my deck). I enjoyed it a ton and kept playing every now and then while I could. Until I couldn't keep up with meta decks because I'd have to dump cash into the game, more so than many of you I presume as I didn't play enough to get many of the daily gold rewards.

Then they started rotating out the old expansion cards. I suddenly didn't have a deck to play. I wasn't going to use a large portion of my luxury money on the game just to get the newer cards to be able to play the game that I'd already spent a ton of money on previously. And no, wild isn't fun. Don't try to shove that argument on me again.

That's all. Dragged on a lot but whatever, enjoy your greedy devs, guys.

[–]GoblinSupply 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As long as their game continues to have economic growth they will not change their ways. When the game growth declines, or becomes less profitable they will adjust things at that point.

Hard to say if that makes things more or less expensive, but there will likely be change at some point. We the consumers as a whole control the timetable of that change.

[–]Satanemme 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, they will improve the economy. Just... right before the game dies.
At that point, it will be too late.

[–]Clife_HS 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A new reward system is on their radar. Blizzard is hearing the communities calls! It's gonna be implemented in the next expansion by a beta progress (like giving 40 dust for 4 months) and will be finalized in 1 year.

[–]ruldog 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. I spent $50 for 50 packs. After opening all my packs I felt like I got fucking ripped off. Still missing so many cards that are crucial to this expansion so I stopped even trying to make decks.

[–]LeCampeur 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stopped playing the day they annonced 3 xpac this year because I didn't like to be treated as a cash cow. Looks like I wasn't that wrong.

[–]chris_ut 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When the next expansion comes(versus adventure) is when it will really start to hurt. People who aren't dropping large sums will barely have this expansion fleshed out by then and will fall too far behind to make many if any standard decks and so will quit or migrate to Wild.

[–]Davaca55 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As a F2P player, I'm really enjoying the model implemented on /r/Faeria

[–]pipthedevil 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Totally agree. Even with spending 7000 gold, $50+ on the preorder, another $20+ on some extra packs, and the dust from the HoF transition, I am still missing a LOT of cards from the set.

If blizz thinks I'm going to do this 3 times a year they are out of their minds.

[–]vinniedamac 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hearthstone needs a 2.0 treatment.

[–]redditusermane 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reading the comments makes me happy. All of my thoughts have been voiced here. It's getting insane, but they'll milk it for all it's worth, and it sucks cause we're willing to give them our money, we just want a game that feels consistent and gives us both room for fun but also flexibility. The fact that you NEED the quests to participate in this meta is so disheartening.

[–]luluinstalock 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

or f) they dont need to do anything.

[–]Slay3d 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i got my friend into this game about a year ago, he quit after about a week cause he got bored playing with boring cards and after that week, he still had 0 of the cards he wanted even though it looked like everyone else had them.

however, even though i agree with what ur saying, u probably get ~60-65g on average per day (cause average quest is worth 50something without the 10g/3 wins), not 40g, if you roll your quests. a 2 win 40g quest is technically 46g, and a 5 win 60g is 76g (assuming u just log in for quests), while thats not what they award u, that is what u will earn completing them. if you count all the higher gold quests like play a friend which u can turn into a 160g quest as well as the 100g quests and pack quest

[–]Belthorm 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I predict blizzard will pick F.) None of the above.

[–]Gaddx 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Last 55 packs - only 1 legendary and it was Hemet. RIP my money FeelsBadMan

[–]itrv1 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish you people would stop dumping money into blizzard. That shit taste in your mouth right now? Thats because of blizzard.

[–]ectopunk 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The marketplace has set the price by making the purchases. If you want the marketplace to lower the price, then you have the obvious choice of not using their products. You could do a boycott to raise awareness e.g., United Airlines prices will drop because consumers will refuse to buy. They'll take notice. If they can't accommodate the marketplace, then they'll be thinking about bankruptcy to escape you.

[–]Cheeetooos 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I spent $100 and did a lot of arena and had a complete set of all of the relevant cards at launch. I think I bought the first adventure too. Then the first expansion came out and while I liked the game, I didn't "hundreds of dollars" like the game. I hear the comparisons to other TCGs but it's not relevant. This is a video game and at this point just a gross cash grab by Blizzard. Even if I had the means and desire to come back, the business model alone is enough to keep me from that. To me, the game has reached the point of so many other free to play games. The economics of it has turned me away.

[–]Zwizzor 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Something they could do is increase the dust price and disenchanting amount for newer sets, so the old sets are still at the old price and new sets now define the new value of dust, and therefore you can craft older cards for very cheap and the newer cards still are as rare as today.
That would kinda follow how experience works in every wow new xpac. Let's say in the next card set you get double dust value for everything and double it again once a new set arrives, again and again. It will still be 1600 dust for enchanting an old legendary but it will feel twice as cheap, and then twice as cheap again and again.

[–]Tha_Carter19 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The real problem is that people keep buying packs, despite the cost. If blizzard isn't losing any money, then they have no need to change their business plan. It's frustrating on all fronts.

[–]Pyromaticj 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to mention a 50% increase in pack prices over hre in the UK, reason i quit once Un'Goro came out.

[–]Mrfeatherpants 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No they don't