Why are we defending Assad in /r/FC?

Jawado116 · 1日前

While we don't support Assad, we chose the Syrian self rule over US imperialism. Also FC being a circlejerk sub we exagerate our desire of Syrians ruling themselves into an undying support for Assad even though we consider him problematic.

bayarea415 · 1日前

I don't understand it either (I was temporarily banned for asking about it; I am guessing a Rule 9 infraction about "not breaking the jerk").

Some are subscribing to, stand with nations that are fighting against imperialism. But I think this is the comment that got me banned:

Standing in solidarity that are victims of imperialism does not necessitate praise of their current leadership either. I whole-heartedly agree, "Let the Syrian people determine what will be done about Assad after the imperialists have been kicked out", but we still have comrades in the north that are attempting to provide such a change as well. I stand with the YPG, and stand with nations that are victims to imperialism.

Edit: I also agree with what u/rojorev said below: "Assad has accepted USA support himself several times in the past.

l337kid · 1日前

I remember when we were concerned about Iraq's government. So we went to war and overthrew the government and killed a few hundred thousand people. Then we put Allawi in. Then we put al-Jaafari in. Then we put Maliki in, and now we've got Abadi. Maybe we should change again? And again?

A million dead Iraqis later, where are we? Two, three trillion dollars later, where are we? Well it wasn't all for nothing, check the Halliburton stocks. Check the Raytheon futures.

We threw the region into chaos and encouraged the outbreak of religious violence. We overthrew the Libyan government based on the same premises and sent those weapons including chemical weapons through the consulate in Benghazi through Turkey to our gulf-state funded ISIS footsoldiers in Syria, our "moderate rebels". We continue to look for justification of a further US presence in these buffer areas as a way to curb Russian and Chinese power.

Wait, this is Communist, how? This is just jingoism and imperialism and death.

nichtmalte · 1日前

Remember guys, Assad also has literal Nazis in his cabinet.

Bab5crusade · 1日前

It's the new temporary jerk.

Mycatispickles · 1日前

It's absurd in my book. I get solidarity with Syrian peoples and all people on earth in relation to imperialism.

But at some point we've got to realize leaders like Assad are just a pieces of shit and deserve no support at all they are regressive, or just retard progress. Fuck Assad. He deserves nothing as far as I'm concerned.

stuckinsanity · 1日前

While I understand the desire, I find the current circlejerk to be counter-productive. There are better ways to agitate against American involvement in Syria without appearing to support a brutal dictator. Even if it is "ironic," this doesn't help the image that communists support totalitarian leaders who act in a brutal manner. Also, I find it laughable to hold up Assad as an anti-American imperialism figure while he continues to enjoy the support of Russian imperialism.

DeLaProle · 1日前

Because it is necessary for anti-imperialism. Yelling about anti-imperialism without actual material support behind it is fucking meaningless - you're doing nothing but intellectual masturbation and pseudo-revolutionary roleplaying. If you're a western leftist then you are responsible for the imperialism done in your name. Want to see where fence-sitting anti-imperialism will get you? It will get you supporting the status quo while Amerikkka goes on its slaughterfest in Syria as it did in Libya, and next likely in DPRK and Iran. You will allow this slaughter to go on and justify your uselessness by chanting about how both sides are bad (how liberal). Imperialism isn't a game, and you can't just sit it out.

Even Trotsky understood the absolute importance of anti-imperialism:

I will take the most simple and obvious example. In Brazil there now reigns a semifascist regime that every revolutionary can only view with hatred. Let us assume, however, that on the morrow England enters into a military conflict with Brazil. I ask you on whose side of the conflict will the working class be? I will answer for myself personally—in this case I will be on the side of “fascist” Brazil against “democratic” Great Britain. Why? Because in the conflict between them it will not be a question of democracy or fascism. If England should be victorious, she will put another fascist in Rio de Janeiro and will place double chains on Brazil. If Brazil on the contrary should be victorious, it will give a mighty impulse to national and democratic consciousness of the country and will lead to the overthrow of the Vargas dictatorship. The defeat of England will at the same time deliver a blow to British imperialism and will give an impulse to the revolutionary movement of the British proletariat. Truly, one must have an empty head to reduce world antagonisms and military conflicts to the struggle between fascism and democracy. Under all masks one must know how to distinguish exploiters, slave-owners, and robbers!

purplepistachio · 1日前

I think it's fairly tongue-in-cheek, and only temporary obviously, but I saw someone explain it over there as: if we want to vehemently oppose US Imperialism we must logically support Assad (who is also running a socialist regime apparently?? First time I've heard it described that way)

Press_F5_Comrade · 1日前

It's seems that it's less about supporting him and more about the probablity that this is bullshit.

red_as_pie_Lucy · 1日前

Well you are supposed to 'unjerk' before actually being serious on FC right. I think if people were seriously in support of Assad then over here on FD you would find the same responses. As other people have mentioned it is probably just an anti-imperialist thing more than anything else.

[deleted] · 1日前

I don't support Assad and find him way too problematic to circlejerk about. I'm fine with sub theme and everything because it's a joke, satire sub so I don't really care that much about the design but I just wanted to say that I'm a ML, most people refer to me as "tankie" and I support Rojava. While single-handedly refusing Assad completely is inviable, and calling him evil is Western propaganda, there are way too much problems associated with him for us to jokingly give him full support.

Just wanted to leave it here. Now I'll go back to /r/FC and /r/CA

EDIT: >> This image <<

frndlynbrhdthrowaway · 21時間前

In my opinion, the thing people have to realize about solidarity is it's not always intended to create perfectly sensible alliances and collaborations. It's not even necessarily intended to make sense. As communists, when we determine who we should share solidarity with in an immediate, narrowly defined context, we need to keep our eyes on the broader context, and we need to have the ability to see long-term objectives and interests.

Bashar al-Assad is not a communist, and his government is not socialist by any stretch of the imagination, however, we should support the Syrian people's right to self-determination and by extension, yes we should support Assad's right to govern his country without America sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. This country needs to be taught a lesson, to stay to itself, and leave people the fuck alone. The gluttonous, selfish, entitled, and fundamentally warped sociopaths dominating our government are never completely satisfied in their thirst for subjugation, and their desire to bend autonomous peoples to their will. The United States government is not satisfied by terrorizing its own citizens, subjecting its own citizens to constant exploitation, psychological manipulation, and deprivation of freedom, no these bloodthirsty bloated motherfuckers just don't know when enough is enough. Once they've satisfied themselves with feeding on us, they have to terrorize other countries under the guise of "humanitarianism."

And, Trump needs to shut his filthy, lying mouth, talking about "saving beautiful little Syrian babies." The man is a cold, calculating, full-blown sociopath, and has absolutely no capacity for empathy. People are just objects for his entertainment, as far as he's concerned, he has no moral authority to talk about "beautiful little babies."

America is beginning to wear out its welcome. America doesn't even give a damn about taking care of its own citizens, but they believe they are entitled to act in other people's interests. They are the house guest that constantly raids your refrigerator, drinks directly from the milk bottle,never cleans up behind themselves, complains about how unimpressive your possessions and personal property are( even though they're using your personal property) and just generally becomes an ungrateful nuisance. When will other countries stop putting up with this government and this military's bullshit? If it makes me an unpatriotic traitor, then so be it, but I do not support this country, I do not support the military, and I do not support the American government. So, I hope Assad, even though he's not a communist, gives them a swift kick in the ass, and a taste of their own medicine, for once. Greedy, ignorant, bloated psychopaths. Full stop.

maghaweer · 1日前

I think it's exaggerated because circlejerk. It's not about supporting Assad. It's about resisting the attempted recolonisation of Syria by the US, France(!), and the US's gulf client states.

The 'revolution' in Syria is nothing but an alternative to US invasion. Being against the invasion of Iraq didn't make you a "Saddamist". Being against NATO and the US doing exactly what they are doing to Syria now, to Libya, in 2011, didn't make you a "Gaddafist". It's not a coincidence that the global south's national-bourgeois states all side with the Syrian government.

Communists have no side with the 'revolution' in Syria. As you cannot support the overthrow of a state in the abstract, what concrete, specific force within Syria can supporters of the 'revolution' point to that is near capable of and willing to overthrow the government and replace them when a power vacuum inevitably results?

To be more direct with my question: who among the opposition do they support? Ahrar Al Sham? Jabhat Al Nusra? Jabhat Al Islamiyah? Jabhat Al Shamiyah? The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria?

If none of these, who? Because these are the only forces within Syria that meet the aforementioned criteria and I would be very interested in hearing how they are a progressive alternative compared to the government. And if any of these forces take power, all of the Syrian non-Sunnis and non-Arabs, who btw make up at least 40% of Syria's people, are totally doomed. I won't accept abstracts, such as 'the people' as that is a useless response; or 'but I support The Kurds', as that is irrelevant to, you know, THE REST OF SYRIA (lol).

Yes, Assad and his party have colluded with the US in the past. So did, at different stages, Saddam with the US and Gaddafi with the UK. The US's orientation to a state can change. What's hard to understand about that? To deny now that regime change is a high and consistent priority for the US is to practice dishonesty or be in denial

fullyjamb · 23時間前

First up, Rojava supports the regime, they want autonomy within the regime, not independence, so saying you "support" Rojava and not Assad is both counter productive and counter revolutionary to the Rojava cause. You can criticise Assad, he deserves to be criticised, but to say one but not the other shows a misunderstanding of the conflict.

Second, I'd like to know what people's alternatives are to Assad and his regime. I'd like to know who believes some small militia is able to rule the country and withstand imperialism from the world's super powers, as well as religious fundamentalism funded by the country's neighbors. I'd like to know people's ideas on who is able to withstand this, who is able to keep Syria independent, and who is ableto do this WITHOUT cooperating with those outside trying to dismantle it. This obviously excludes FSA, who have a large quantity of Islamists within its ranks and are funded by Islamist nations such as Saudi Arabia and Turkey, who both want a piece of Syrian resources or land. And also within reason excludes a lot of SDF for their cooperation with NATO (I understand SDF are accepting NATO weapons because they would not be able to cope without them, however, what stops NATO from demanding some kind of deal in response, had SDF become leaders of the country. It is naive to believe the US would donate that many extremely expensive weapons whilst expecting no return on it. The US will want a piece, and at the expense of the Syrian people)

Thirdly, it's not even our job to say. The Syrian people can speak for themselves if they want regime change, without funding being plunged in from outside. I understand Assad is a ruthless authoritarian, but nowhere has benefitted from the US invading. As leftists we should be supporting the Syrian people's right to self determination. Dictators (if you can call Assad that) only last as long. The will of the people will decide when his time is up. And without outside interference, they could have done it without a bloody civil war. A dictator cannot rule when every citizen turns their back on them. And every dictators violent response against the people only boosts the movement of revolution for an option better suited to the people.

Basically, hands off Syria.

to_the_buttcave · 2時間前

I support preventing American interests from overtaking Syria, but never the purification of Assad's image in the process. I strongly believe any leftist alliance should be one of necessity against imperial forces, and his hateful far-right principles should be held at an arm's length and not celebrated, even ironically, during this time.

I realize that ironic hero-worship is a long-standing FULLCOMMUNISM tradition, but growing up and leaving channer communities behind made me realize how dangerous irony can be if it is used irresponsibly.

There are positive leftist qualities that redeem Mao, Stalin, etc. to enough of an extent to be celebrated, but I do not see Assad in such a way. I come to FULLCOMMUNISM to jerk about leftism and seeing a far-right leader plastered everywhere is upsetting.

trNikolayII · 23時間前

Reasons for defending Assad: 1. He is the best alternative in Syria, we just haven't any better ruler than Assad and better party than Ba'ath. Like Paris Commune - their leaders wasn't really good, they was weak and indecisive (one of the most important reason why Commune fell). But Marx and all communists support Commune. 2. In fact, Assad is one of the most "left" leader in Middle East and other post-colonial world. It's awful but it's fact, in those area are too much ultra-rights and reactionaries. A lot or people don't support Assad because they don't want to have a ruler like Assad in their countries, it's normal but Syria has got other conditions and other situation. 3. Assad is our enemies enemy, we're in one side. Syria never was in neocolonial relations with West when Assads were in power, it's also good. 4. Anyway, american imperialism - is the most dangerous now. Syria like Hitler's victims before WWII, USSR and International defend Austrian capitalistic country, for example.

1日前

[deleted]

FULLDISCOURSE

Try our FULLCOMMUNISM Discord for all the discourse and memes you love, in realtime! (Click here to join)

WHAT IS /R/FULLDISCOURSE?

This subreddit is a place for socialists and communists of all varieties to discuss theory, news, practice, politics, and ideas.

RULES

調停者