PLAN 2017 vs IJN WW2

inspired zipang anime and Final Countdown

Navy modern China, accidentally teleported to 1942-1945 era, there will not be any battle Pearl Harbor occurred, no WW2. But China is being occupied by the Japanese, Japanese navy was at the peak of their best. PLAN vs IJN

This scenario does not allow China to carry on Type 094/095 nuclear amerd submarines or any nuclear weapons. The Navy North Sea Fleet will be the main theme of this campaign. And incidentally their opponents may be the 1st Air Fleet (Imperial Japanese Navy), was the world's largest aircraft carrier fleet ever. Liaoning aircraft carrier complete with J-15 & Z-9/8. Japanese Fleet everything intact thousands of aircraft, Ki, Zero, warships and submarines as Yamato, I-400....


vs

 

Any reasonably competent modern military could crush a WWII military unless hugely outnumbered.

 

IJN was the most powerful navy in the world in 1939-41. They have outstanding numbers. Compared to the firepower of the PLAN

 

The PLAN has an aircraft carrier operating modern jet aircraft. If the Japanese even get in range to engage with them before being destroyed by air-launched anti-ship missiles, whoever is running the PLAN is a gibbering imbecile

 

But lack of fuel and logistics, remember this is WW2

 

I mean if we're going to play the game of "the Chinese are ISOTed off the coast of Tokyo with no gas for their jets", then yeah of course the IJN win, but that just means that you're warping the scenario to create contrivances to hand the Japanese victory. In a realistic scenario they could, you know, get gas from the Americans or the Soviets. And they probably won't actually engage with the Japanese until they, you know, have fuel. (Refining will be an issue but these ships will have a lot of technical experts onboard and the Americans/Soviets would probably be happy to help in exchange for information).

But if we assume that, say, the Chinese are suddenly made to face off with the entire IJN, with both sides fully fueled? The PLAN is going to make quick work of the Japanese, and while they may not have the jet fuel to finish the IJN off purely from air, they'll still heavily outrange them, and moreover the Japanese would have retreated due to getting their asses absolutely kicked and having all of their capital ships shredded long before the Chinese would run out of gas.

 

Hahahahahaha.


No.

 

The problem is the PLAN possesses AEGIS-equivalent vessels that pose a very serious threat to naval aviation (let alone from WWII) and very capable anti-ship cruise missiles that in turn pose a serious threat to the IJN's battleships and aircraft carriers. In that way you can think of a PLAN Type 052D destroyer with full kit as being a tiny, mini-carrier with a bunch of kamikazie drone bombers that can't return to vessel, but at the price of being able to crack some very big, very heavily armored targets.

I mean, it's been 70-some years. Don't you think technology might've progressed a little in the meantime?

 

IJN had overwhelming number PLAN forces, however PLAN had most superior technology

The A6M with the overwhelming number with the ability to carry bombs and torpedoes, sinking may be some of the PLAN warships such as Type 056 (If they get lost and alone. Type 056 is tasked mainly ASW weapons is very little CIWS and SAM armed). But the casualties of aircraft Zero will be very large, China could engage the battleships or the carrier of the IJN, with range over 50 km by Anti-ship missile (YJ-83 - 120km). The Japanese submarines would have difficulty with the modern submarine of China, except larger number. The Type 039A applies technology AIP German motor is extremely quiet. Japan has a resistance WW2 submarine poorly. Them (Exocet's China YJ-62/83, Kh-31A) excess ability to sink the largest warships of IJN such as Shinano aircraft carrier or Battleship Musashi

 

The biggest contribution the A6M or any IJN warplane can give is just having so many of them they just exhaust the missile launchers of the PLAN ships.

70 years. Go to a car museum and look at a car from 70 years ago and look at a brand new car today and think about what kind of changes happened in military technology since then.

70 years.

 

IJN air strikes were taking ≥50% casualties in exchange for 10-15% weapons on target against early war USN (aka, before VT and before LOLBOFORSPAM). How in the world anyone could think that they'll manage to do anything other than through sheer luck is beyond me.

 

You mean the battleship sunk with depth charges and ASW torpedoes? The Yamato class may be impressive on paper, but they were more than a little crap.

 

Modern anti-ship missiles are not designed to combat Battleship designs

In WW2, the Japanese have the mental strength of kamikaze capability, with each Zero being considered an anti-ship missile. And do not forget Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka



Kamikaze weapons will consume PLANs smart weapons (HQ9, HQ16, CIWS). The number of CIWS on modern warships is little, not enough to prevent multiple attacks at close range, so remember that the WW2 plane has very low RCSs, the Japanese can fly low to avoid radar.

Torpedo bombers can also engage in suicide torpedo attacks, and modern warships are similar to WW2 warships without effective torpedo capability.IJN's vast numbers of submarines and warships are too numerous to destroy, but they can still reach the surface of the artillery range to attack PLAN ships with a thinner armors.

 

Alright, three things. First, antiship missiles may not be designed to combat heavily-armored battleships, but they'll fuck up anything else, fuck up a battleship's upperworks to make it blind and deaf, and more importantly, China has no shortage of submarines.

Second, the Japanese didn't use kamikazes until they were losing the war and utterly desperate. They're not going to use it from the start.

Third, the Ohka is a 1945 weapon the Japanese don't have in 1941.

 

Armor piercing bombs and regular torpedoes (in 1944 the USN only had "regular torpedoes" for naval aviation; ASW torpedoes would be a number of years off still, well after the war, as they'd only be practical once they'd have their own homing capability). The planes that sank Musashi were from the fleet carriers, not the Taffy CVE fleets that dealt with the more northern force.

The Chinese have a missile called YJ-12 that has a warhead that weighs the same as many complete battleship shells of the era and can fly at speculated speeds up to Mach 4. If you say that that is not designed to combat battleship designs, you severely over-appreciate battleship protection schemes.

But let's cut to the chase here since your responses so far have been "but this and that" and just throwing up another point for deflection, and once that point has been deflected you put up another one (not unlike an AEGIS system, actually). You've got predefined notions, you seem to be looking mostly for confirmation bias, and you have a severe lack of really appreciating what's going on here.

For the third time now - 70 years. Go to any museum, preferably a tech museum, and look at the artifacts they have from 70 years ago and compare to today. Or hell with it, just go to a friggin' museum period since you'd greatly benefit from the experience. A failure to appreciate the basic concept of history and the passage of time and what happens in between doesn't deserve to have one's questions answered, or at least it'll mean people will no longer take this thread seriously and will just ignore it.

 

My scenario is IJN of the WW2 era (1939-1945)

 

The YJ-12 is only used on land or H-6 aircraft, not on the PLAN

just YJ18 on Type 052D

YJ-18 - Wikipedia

 

IJN has the number, experience and spirit
PLAN has outstanding technology but lack logistics

 

Remember the Jap are very numerous aircraft (IJAAF, IJNAAF), they have low RCS (Due to the design of the wood material is largely), today North Korea still uses two wing aircraft to penetrate Korea. HQ-9 air defense missiles are only suitable for aircraft such as the F / A-18. No same as Zero or N1KJ

They will be more difficult to cope with due to the possibility of reducing RCS (however I think the Japanese do not know this)

 

I dislike being lied to. Your scenario was, and I quote:

Japanese at their peak, which would be mid-1942, with prior ship losses added and air groups at full strength. That does not include kamikazes and Ohkas.

Also I just noticed this. Largest carrier fleet ever? Oh, you sweet summer child. The US Navy is at its lowest carrier strength since 1943, and it still has a larger carrier force than the First Air Fleet.

 

Modern radar systems are only suitable for the detection of aircraft such as the F-15 and Su-30 (Most of metal design) than the WW2 era design wooden aeroplane

 

That's a myth on two accounts.

And that's another myth, though it just repeats one of the first two.

Seriously, read a book.

 

Okay, first of all, I don't know what you're reading to get this information, but you need to chuck it in the nearest garbage can. The Zero was made out of aluminum, you ninny, as were most aircraft of WWII. I mean, if most aircraft of WWII were of wood construction you'd think the Mosquito's wooden construction wouldnt' be as notable as it is.

Second, even if it is true, modern radars are designed to cope with objects far less easy to detect on radar than subsonic wooden prop planes. Here's what the US Navy War College claims the UK's current naval radar is capable of:

"the SAMPSON radar is capable of tracking 1,000 objects the size of a cricket ball travelling at three times the speed of sound (Mach 3)"

I dunno about you, but that sounds a lot more impressive than a wooden Zero. And while Chinese radars are probably not that impressive, I also don't think they're that far behind.

 

Aluminum is still a better reduce RCS material than metal alloys like the F-15, Su-30
Radar advertising is not always realistic. There have been many times the Navy's U.S radar helplessly detected the Su-24 or North Korean missiles

 

Furthermore, you think the PLAN lacks spirit? They will literally be fighting the WW2 era Imperial Japanese military. In the middle of their invasion of China. There is no way to motivate the PLAN more and give them better morale than by giving them a target rich environment that they are completely justified in disliking.