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From Engineer to Manager: keeping your technical skills (hackernoon.com)

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[–]elcollin 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dude, Ghandi should have just marched to this thread. Lotta salt laying around...

[–]lurkdedurk 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (41子コメント)

Oh look, more programmers in an engineering sub

[–]abig7nakedxMechanical E.I.T. 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (7子コメント)

From what I could tell by skimming the article, nearly all of the information and opinions presented generalize to any discipline of engineering, whether ("peasant"TM) programming or software engineering or ("RealTM") engineering. It's good advice for how people who work in a technical field can practice good leadership and management skills.

Quit enforcing arbitrary taxonomies and learn from useful content, my dude.

[–]bigmacxtrasauce -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

For a programmer the layout of that article was shit organized.

[–]bad_at_photosharp 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (30子コメント)

Nothing drives me crazier than programmers referring to themselves as "software engineers"

[–]PurdueME06 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (17子コメント)

What about Mechanical Engineers that program?

80-90% of my job is programming.

[–]bad_at_photosharp 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Then youre a mechanical engineer who programs.

[–]PurdueME06 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (15子コメント)

So a ... programmer.

-er: a suffix used in forming nouns designating persons from the object of their occupation or labor (hatter; tiler; tinner; moonshiner)

[–]f1fandf 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So is your title a programmer? Or mechanical engineer?

[–]bad_at_photosharp 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Sure. If you like. Idgaf what you call yourself. I'm talking about people that write crud apps that connect to simple rest services in Javascript referring to themselves as engineers.

[–]f1fandf 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Somewhat like when a mechanic calls himself a mechanical engineer.

[–]GetIn-TheVan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've never heard a mechanic call himself an engineer.

I have heard lots of Mechanical Engineering Technology grads refer to themselves as Engineers though, and that really just needs to stop.

[–]TrustButVerifyEng 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They can get a PE just like a ME (at least in Ohio where I live). More experience required though.

[–]_edd 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

So how do you feel about computer science majors that write the software behind something like conveyors, missiles or nuclear power plants? It sounds like you would be fine calling that person a software engineer

So when you say something along the lines of "programmers who call themselves software engineers pisses me off," you're not only shitting on the people who write half assed apps but also the people who are legitimate software engineers, and that engineering gatekeeping mentality comes off as ridiculous.

[–]eng2016a 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

CS majors don't tend to write those programs, though. It's usually MEs or EEs that know how to program that do.

They don't teach control engineering in CS curricula.

[–]RollingprobablecauseSoftware/Systems Engineering 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

CS majors don't tend to write those programs, though.

uh....yes they do. The Delta V Controls system has a Software Engineer PE with a few compsci/ee underlings reporting to him at Eaton. One of the reasons why my company wants me to get my Software PE is for this reason - many nuclear/defense contracts are starting to require the Software PE - the Nukies/ME's that use to write these programs are shifting their work.

[–]_edd 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sure, to a large extent you're right. The low level is usually done by EEs. If there is any higher level logic beyond just telling a PLC to do blank now, that is often computer science majors.

[–]eng2016a 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's one thing for a person with a CS background to write rigorous control software and call themselves an engineer. That's a perfectly fair thing, and indeed why ABET is starting to accredit Software Engineering as a legitimate engineering discipline (a good thing!).

It's another thing for someone working for Twitter or Facebook or Snapchat to call themselves an engineer and present themselves to the world as engineers. Nowadays when you hear the word engineer in the media, it's often in the context of software development, particularly in the Javascript world. Unfortunately this world operates in a fashion that would make any traditional engineer shudder, and gives people a false idea of what really goes on. Not to mention that even looking for jobs with the word Engineering in them is littered with web development positions.

[–]bwinter999 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Programmer is such an ugly word though. Maybe we could coin "progineer" or something.

[–]bigmacxtrasauce -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your a smart ass

[–]RollingprobablecauseSoftware/Systems Engineering 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (9子コメント)

So how do you feel about software engineers with their PE then?

*Also there's a big difference between self taught programmers with no schooling calling them selves that and people who actually go to school and get CompSci/SoftwareEng/SystemsEng Degrees. Your point is only valid for the first.

[–]Elliott2BS | Mechanical Engineering | MEP -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

a way for the state/ncees to get more money.

[–]RollingprobablecauseSoftware/Systems Engineering 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (7子コメント)

So are you saying that PE Licensure is a joke then to not be taken serious? What other way in America would you propose we certify and hold accountable engineering failures/disasters and successes?

[–]GetIn-TheVan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'll jump in and say that, in my opinion, PE Licensure is a joke. And I say that as a Civil PE.

For fresh grads, the tests are stupidly easy and do not measure real world engineering skills. For high quality experienced engineers that have been out of class for years, the tests can be very difficult because it's basically just a big final exam from your junior/senior year. Very theoretical and math heavy, but not much critical thinking and real world problem solving. And there is absolutely nothing related to Ethics, which is absurd. The fees are high enough to really make you wonder if it's just a racket.

I know excellent Professional Engineers that freely admit they couldn't pass the exam right now if they tried. And I know shitty know-nothing Professional Engineers that joke about how easy the exam was. It measures nothing but your checkbook and your ability to use the Index of the Lindeburg Reference Manual.

Now, I'm not saying that PE Licensure is a bad thing. It's absolutely necessary. But this multiple guess scantron bullshit needs to go, and they need to bring back the longform word problems. No more multiple choice; solve a real engineering problem from start to finish, and show your work. At $400/test, they can afford to have people hand grade these exams. And there absolutely needs to be an ethics section.

[–]jimmyvcard 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you think you can pass the 8 hour PE exam with just knowledge of the Lindeburg reference, then I'm not sure we took the same test. I agree that you can improve the exam, but I think in general you show A LOT as someone who passed the exam. Yeah there are outliers, but in my experience the "excellent" engineers had their PE's. The managers who I had who never passed, were mid-level managers when I left. Obviously, scantron is not ideal, but if you can pass that test in 8 hours, you certainly identify yourself as an engineer. I did civil too, and knowing what regulations, calculations, etc. has been a difference maker between average and "excellent" engineers on a weekly basis at work.

[–]GetIn-TheVan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The excellent engineers I was talking about are currently PEs. They're excellent Engineers. But they became PEs years ago, and they looked at my practice exam and said there was no way they'd be able to pass it now. So that's what I meant by that. It's all theory, it's all college style exam problems.

I dunno man. I "studied" for about 10 hours and passed the CE Construction exam first try. It took me about 5 hours, total. I didn't think it was difficult at all. It was, dead serious, one of the easier exams I've ever taken. I was not a good student in college. After I passed the PE the only thing I could think of was that Groucho Marx quote.. "I don't want to belong to any organization that would have me as a member." The fact that I became a PE really lowered my opinion of the entire process, and I'm being completely serious right now. I got a PE license because it got me an automatic raise, and no other reason. I would never actually stamp something though, I truly do not feel qualified to do anything like that. Maybe it's just imposter syndrome or something.

And seriously. They need to get an ethics section on that exam. It's crazy to me that there's no ethics section, and my experience in the field tells me that the engineering industry in general desperately needs more ethics training.

[–]TrustButVerifyEng 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I couldn't agree more with your experience. I'm a ME in HVAC new construction btw. Exactly the same regarding good engineers who wouldn't pass to thinking the exams are cake (well FE exam at least. I'll take the PE this fall).

[–]Elliott2BS | Mechanical Engineering | MEP -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

for software, yes.

[–]PurdueME06 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What, in your opinion, is the difference between:

  • A PE licensed SE that writes code that meets ISO 26262.

  • A PE licensed ME that uses Simulink to design a system and embedded coder w/IEC Certification Kit to meet ISO 26262.

[–]lurkdedurk 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eh if they say software then it's not so bad. It's when they forget the qualifier it annoys me.

[–]TotallyGetTheM50s -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's like janitors referring to themselves as building engineers.

Quit talking shit.

[–]pheonixblade9 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I design systems. I test those systems. I automate that testing. I improve the reliability of our system. I monitor and measure the reliability and performance of our system. I create new processes that reduce the possibility of failure in the system. I am responsible for building and maintaining infrastructure. I'm on the hook if something goes wrong.

I also write code.

What am I?

(I also am EIT certified if that matters)

[–]bigmacxtrasauce 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

love it