上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]TrumpiriumRUS[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (5子コメント)

Please note that this does not reflect the position of the mod team as a whole, we each have our own opinions.

Mine being that aside from relegating control from the FCC back to the FTC and restoring the pre-Obama status quo, this is essentially a toothless piece of legislation, which has been the subject of massive amounts of exaggeration and shilling across various subreddits by the same organizations that actively suppressed any discussion about the TPP last year.

[–]unfetteredbymemesKEK 331 ポイント332 ポイント  (68子コメント)

It makes me uncomfortable.

But then I remember the NSA scandal, and Vault 7 and I think about going off the grid.

Then I remember there is no T_D off the grid.

fuck.

[–]Gridorr 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (42子コメント)

Have an Android phone? Get Orbot problem fixed

[–]unfetteredbymemesKEK 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do actually.

Orbot. Noted

[–]Edenburger 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (13子コメント)

There isn't an app that can be created that will fix all the privacy/spying issues inherent with Android and Windows 10.

[–]Commander_KEKUSA 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I wouldn't trust Tor as a sole source of security. Rumors have been circulating for years that it is compromised.

[–]DogFartsAreGreat 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Commenting to save this.

[–]EverySingleRedditor 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just download the app instead

Spez: or just save the comment

[–]sublimeinslimeDTOM 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (8子コメント)

The dilemmas we face in modern society!

[–]unfetteredbymemesKEK 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Since I'm technology retarded, I have absolutely no idea how we might keep malicious government entities from getting our metadata

[–]AverinMIAFRA 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

They tap directly into ISP backbones - L3, Cogent, Verizon, etc... There is no way to keep that from happening, at least when it pertains to the NSA.

"There should be a law against this type of thing..."

[–]unfetteredbymemesKEK 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I thought there was...

[–]AverinMIAFRA 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Me too, guess the 4th amendment doesn't mean much anymore.

[–]unfetteredbymemesKEK 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not when the internet is a civil right and your infringing on my "safe Space"

[–]XMAGA_1776XCOAL 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think if the CIA really wanted you, the law would be a minor annoyance.

[–]finally_a_normal_guyTX 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It makes me uncomfortable.

Same here. I know Trump has shown support for the "surveillance state" in the past, but after what he's now gone through with being spied on I really wish he would come out against anything that expands these creepy powers (as it related to allowing our personal data disseminated in ANY WAY).

[–]unfetteredbymemesKEK 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah. My issue is with regressive left, if they were to introduce these powers, they would start to try and restrict free speech online by; demanding the internet is civil-right, then demanding that it is safe place for civil discussion, then jailing people for disagreement.

[–]StirlingGRUS 329 ポイント330 ポイント  (50子コメント)

I think there needs to be a new bill that introduces an all encompassing privacy protection. I don't like ISPs or websites selling my shit, and I don't see any major positives to this.

[–]OnlyTrump16USA 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (40子コメント)

But they can't just ban it selectively because that will create unfair advantages. That leads to cronyism and corruption.

[–]catvideos22CA 245 ポイント246 ポイント  (35子コメント)

You can choose not to use Facebook and still use the internet. You cannot choose to use a different ISP.

[–]ohno_thatsucks 63 ポイント64 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Exactly. I don't want the postman opening my mail to see what they can advertise to me. You can't opt out.

[–]ITworksGuys 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (13子コメント)

You are still going to use Google or a site that uses Google analytics.

You are still going to use email, and iphone, or any other device/service that is online.

[–]whodknee_ 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (8子コメント)

In ublock origin you can block all connections to google analytics.

You can choose a different email provider. You can use an android phone without Gapps. Etc etc.

With isps most people have 2 high speed options. Both of which will probably sell your information now.

This would be like there only being 2 email options, gmail and yahoo mail, bith of which look at all your emails to target you with ads.

[–]maga_tax 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But I think u/StirlingG is suggesting that no one should have the right to sell that information. If representatives claim to promote privacy and also claim to want to level the playing field, why not prevent both ISPs and website from doing so unless you opt in?

[–]Hoffa 490 ポイント491 ポイント  (52子コメント)

I am against anything and anyone that can track and sell my internet browser history.

[–]Freedom_famKEK 291 ポイント292 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I agree.

This shouldn't be an opt-out. It should be an opt-in, with royalty checks auto-credited to my bill.

[–]sh2003KEK 74 ポイント75 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I like this idea. I'd be ok with this.

[–]TheHighestEagleDTOM 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This makes the most sense and is best for the people.

Naturally we'll have to fight tooth and nail for the thing that is best for the people. Fucking sad...

We got this though.

[–]MonkeyManWheeMN 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is how new companies break into this space, we need these monopolies to end.

Pay people to allow this, it's our data, even if it's not much, you would show faith to your customers, and that may be enough to separate you from the rest of the herd.

[–]pure_energy18 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, privately owned infrastructure prevents new companies from breaking into this space. That needs to be changed before anything can happen because as it stands, it's physically (literally) impossible for new ISPs to break into most markets. Telecom is a huge clusterfuck and is a perfect example of free market failure.

[–]A_GADSDEN_LATINOMA 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Which is why I use a combination of uBlock Origin and uMatrix. One to generally block advertisements, and the other to whitelist specific subdomains/CDNs, scripts, images, cookies and other objects on a per-web site basis. uMatrix also has the ability to change your user agent every 5 minutes and use multiple ones that you can even specify.

In addition, I make sure to use the Self-Destructing Cookies extension for Firefox, to make sure I automatically delete cookies from the sites I've whitelisted and have no active tabs in use.

Lastly, I disable my browser history altogether, so the sites I visit, especially search engines, don't get to determine what I've previously visited.


Most importantly, though, always use HTTPS when possible. Your ISP can see all HTTP traffic, as it's unencrypted. From the browser you're using, to the content you're downloading and submitting, to even your OS and screen resolution settings. It's all public under HTTP.

With HTTPS, all your ISP can see is the general site you're trying to contact. So, if you're trying to access https://website.com/test123, your ISP will only see website.com.

[–]Octo_R0ck 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I piggy-back off your last few paragraphs, there is an extension called HTTPS Everywhere that will help encrypt traffic requests to websites overall. It is for Chrome, Firefox, and Opera.

[–]DgenerateChknTendiesUSA 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can also use the new Brave browser that Brendan Eich created after being purged from Mozilla. It uses HTTPS by default, in addition to a concert of other user privacy protections.

[–]BLSullyWI 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great list of extensions/methods to minimize your identifiable footprint!

I'd add Privacy Badger by the EFF

[–]kanagawa 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Then use tor. Otherwise, you're already tracked everywhere by nearly everyone.

[–]BLSullyWI 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Still have to be careful how you're using Tor. It isn't a panacea to tracking. If you use gmail through Tor, allow 3rd party cookies, etc, it doesn't change the fact that advertisers and such can track you. Same with VPN services, etc.

Obviously more complicated than that, but the majority of users, technically minded or not, should get the gist of it.

[–]dilth98 159 ポイント160 ポイント  (13子コメント)

The free market has a way of working things out. Should the demand for privacy increase to the point that it's economically viable for an ISP to advertise that they don't collect any of your data, it will happen.

There is no economic incentive to do this because there is near zero competition in the ISP space.

ISP is not a free market. Most of them have government granted monopolies on their service area.

[–]RightTheirWrongs 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (0子コメント)

100% agree. There is no alternative choices without options. And the ISP game is not about competition.

[–]LordReekrusARMY 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for posting this. Saved me the effort. Free market competition is not free market competition when the government guiding hand picks and chooses who owns the market based on lobbying.

See: Energy industry and what they've done to solar as one example.

[–]DragofireheartNH 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

ISP is not a free market. Most of them have government granted

Found the problem.

[–]gwrightivCA 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Should the demand for privacy increase to the point that it's economically viable for an ISP

There is no economic incentive to do this

I agree that there is no incentive to offer a privacy centric ISP. They'd be losing out on potential revenue in selling the data. Since they weren't selling data, they'd need to have a high price point. The high price point would stop people from wanting to use them. This hypothetical privacy ISP wouldn't be able to compete against the cheaper ones selling data.

[–]90s_camp 208 ポイント209 ポイント  (14子コメント)

You don't have to use google, facebook etc. You have to use your ISP. Big difference.

[–]dirket 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And let's be real, the ISP world is a classic example of market failure. The free market will not be able to correct this issue. Even if you blame the government for the market failure, reversing it is not going to happen overnight and we need protection. Yes it's bad that Google can sell my data, but at least there are alternatives and they don't see the entirety of my history, only what goes through their services. And let's not forget that with Google and Facebook you get a free* service out of the deal, whereas your ISP still overcharges you for some of the worst Internet speeds in the West.

*no monetary transaction, but you're paying with your data. If you don't have tracking protection on your browser they might also get your data through adsense etc.

[–]RightTheirWrongs 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Exactly, I know I have one choice of ISP where I live. Please tell me of the land that has 10+

[–]Tejava4LyfeCA 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You also don't pay a monthly fee. Those sites gives you a free service in exchange for your browsing. The ISP already overcharges for a service that could be better but is throttled and capped and now they want to make more.

[–]Southern_deplOregonOR 131 ポイント132 ポイント  (23子コメント)

slippery slope intensifies

[–]shadowman3001BPA[S] 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (22子コメント)

Keep in mind that the bill in effect doesn't really change much, as the rules put in place in January haven't even taken effect.

[–]Southern_deplOregonOR 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I know, and thank you for showing both sides.

This is merely a grain of sand in the desert that is the destruction of the 4th amendment.

[–]Baba-Yaga- 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

But its for your protection!!!

/s

[–]Southern_deplOregonOR 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

-Ronald Reagan

[–]wheredidiputitKEK 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (17子コメント)

yeah that's my take away from this. Facebook, Netflix, etc are already doing this. If anything it's leveled the playing field out. Doesn't mean I like it though. But I'd rather everyone have access than just a few.

[–]maga_tax 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I understand that argument, but instead of allowing everyone to sell private data, why not allow nobody to do so?

[–]HeyThatsAccurate 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah but you can choose not to use those services. You can't choose a different ISP in many situations.

[–]RuktovMAGA 278 ポイント279 ポイント  (51子コメント)

Thank you for offering both sides of the issue.

[–]BamaBangsMAGA 198 ポイント199 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Seen nowhere else on Reddit.

[–]CantContheDonMAGA 115 ポイント116 ポイント  (33子コメント)

The only thing he's wrong about is that market competition would encourage a privacy-based ISP.

It's next to impossible to start a new ISP. The ISPs should be regulated, or more preferably, broken up so that they actually compete.

[–]Optimus_Prime3 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I also hadn't thought about this and would love if this is what the bill spawned. With that being said I'm still against it

[–]WeAreGonnaMAGACA 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not going to change unless the Feds get to de-regulating the "right of way" issue.

Right now, ISPs have to get permission from thousands of local municipal governments to put wires on telephone poles, or to dig to put wire in trenches, or even to share space in existing underground conduits.

As you would imagine, this process is incredibly difficult, expensive, time-consuming, and corrupt. It is a way for ISPs to keep competitors from ever getting started.

The Feds need to step in, and say "no more" to these local governments who make the market lack competition.

If ISPs were facing market pressure, then I wouldn't care about the ISP privacy issue, because I'd have a choice in providers. Until and unless this is resolved, the Feds should be doing everything they can to protect individual privacy.

[–]kanagawa 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (11子コメント)

It's next to impossible because of regulation. If we deregulated the ISP market, every town would get five ISPs overnight. There is no large tech investment needed to launch an ISP, youjust hook up some routers and you're up.

The only hard part is the last mile wiring and even there the technology has come so far that our regulations are just slowing everyone down.

I'm an Internet entrepreneur.

[–]calm-forestOH 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Gotta bust up the municipality franchise agreements.

Godspeed to you if you ever have to deal with local governments.

[–]kanagawa 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. Those types of agreements are what should be restricted throughout regulations. Even as bad as they are, though, if I could have made even 10% margins in that business, then I'd still be selling Internet hookups and dealing with locals and loving every minute.

[–]DragofireheartNH 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

More ISPs would be good. Competition helps weed out the bad ones.

[–]Chewies_MomTX 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (9子コメント)

So your argument is then to allow gov't to restrict the advertising market into ISPs and Non-ISPs and then force the ISPs to compete against each other, even though in most municipalities there is only one choice for an ISP?

[–]CantContheDonMAGA 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (8子コメント)

My argument is get rid of the regs that allow the ISPs to have a monopoly. With a monopoly, nothing holds them back from collusion so they can all profit from the data.

[–]Chewies_MomTX 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

But that's not federal. that's local laws.

[–]CantContheDonMAGA 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The corporations have both local and federal laws under their thumb. Something must be done.

[–]IvetteAramis 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I doubt someone wealthy enough who could start a new ISP, would start one and not sell people's data. Selling our information would only profit companies, not doing so would only be lost profit. It's like saying the richest people in the world could end starvation, they possibly COULD, but they aren't.

[–]shadowman3001BPA[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well, I wasn't implying that the market competition would encourage an entirely new ISP, but rather if there was enough demand that it made an attractive selling point to a current ISP (enough to gain enough customers to offset the selling of data), that a current ISP could change their policy on collection.

[–]CantContheDonMAGA 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Problem is with only a few companies, it's too easy to collude if there's a lot of money in the data collection. Just all agree to do it, keep it hush hush, rake in the money.

[–]Katfish29[M] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is against anti-trust laws. Our current admin has been on the recird against corporate collusion and the manipulation of market share.

[–]CantContheDonMAGA 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't trust anti-trust laws to be faithfully enforced, even with Trump as President. He is merely a beachhead against the massive establishment. It's a huge fight to make progress on any issue.

[–]Bucks2001WI 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm glad that this was stickied.

Personally, I'd be in favor of the mods stickying more detailed, well-researched content, instead of the usual influx of tiresome memes.

Oh wait. Oops.

[–]IvetteAramis 104 ポイント105 ポイント  (40子コメント)

Personally I don't want my information sold, I understand some of it already is but if I can prevent it from happening I would want to keep it that way. It'll up for sale, anyone can buy it and use your browsing history against you.

[–]DJ_Trump_2016FL 96 ポイント97 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Glad this is being addressed. Thanks mods

[–]ChrisTheCoolBeanMI 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Listen here, we got the best mods. The best.

[–]TheMadmanDidIt 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I had this discussion yesterday with someone- I think we should address the real issue which is the monopolization of ISPs. If we allow the ISPs to sell our data, then it's a choice of the one Internet service provider or having no Internet right now. However, if we are able to encourage the increase of multiple choices in the ISP market, then there are bound to be ISPs that protect vs those that sell. Thus you can pay for service for those ISPs protecting your data.

[–]ImYammerin 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Enforce laws on the books(anti-trust) and the problem is solved. Sounds familiar, can't remember why..

[–]RulerOfSlidesNJ 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

B U S T T H A T T R U S T

[–]SHOW_ME_RARE_PEPESWI 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The megacorporations are part of the new feudalism. The monied PTB won't allow this without some serious retribution. Bankers, CEOs and Lawyers/Politicians are the new "noble classes". Liberals that point to this and say capitalism is bad have no idea the fuck their talking about.

[–]ImYammerin 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Really sad. Kind of like when there think RINOS represent people like me. I am not even a "true conservative" on a number of issues, but I identify far more with the grassroots than the "moderate" wing of the party.

[–]SHOW_ME_RARE_PEPESWI 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hopefully we can move that Overton window more towards populism and fire all these asshats in the next 2 elections.

[–]loopdojo 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I see your point about certain entities being able to access your data previously, and that this just enables the ISP to do the same.

However, if I may offer an admittedly not perfect analogy...

I can choose which websites and services to use, like which stores and places I drive my car to.

I cannot choose whether I am driving roads or not, the ISP being the road.

[–]jdovejrFL 102 ポイント103 ポイント  (9子コメント)

As a network engineer, I see this from both sides.

First, I believe this is a good way to allow ISP's make targeted ads. It also allows for a customized internet experience. A lot of braindead people want this.

From my rational side, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? VETO THIS SHIT NOW

[–]vpny 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You explained a feature on your first point. A feature that further insulates and controls the message a corporation wants to provide a user. This is possibly the worst thing to allow a 'braindead' person.

[–]jdovejrFL 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I know. That was a hint of sarcasm.

[–]vpny 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aye. Good to hear. Was wondering how a network engineer could have such outlook. You guys are among the most calibrated on this topic.

[–]sh2003KEK 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

> customized internet experience

If Reddit and /r/redacted have taught me anything, it's taught me that I DO NOT WANT THIS.

[–]Jack_CandleNAVY 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The bold got me lol.

[–]KimJongUnitardMN 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Does this mean after porn viewing or other adult product viewing I might start getting adult ads on the network? That's a real bad thing for when visitors use my internet...

[–]Jack_CandleNAVY 81 ポイント82 ポイント  (12子コメント)

It's taking us in the wrong direction. We should be limiting the kind of data, not just saying "Hey those apps get more data then I doooo Not fair!" Then say here you go Comcast, Verizon, and other companies that have been known to screw us over all the time. We're going to give you power over us even more.

This is a bad bill. I'm all for the free market but this sort of thing shouldn't be for sell in the market in the first place. We need to worry about whats best for America and quit riding the dick of the premise of whats best for the free market ideology.

[–]DangerQAOH 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What is the power? To be advertised to?

[–]Jack_CandleNAVY 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You know damn well that they aren't going to use the data for just that. They will continue to push and push for more as long as we let them get away with it.

[–]Ukatox 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The free market has a way of working it out... guess I'll goto a competing cable company that won't sell my data if Comcast decides to sell my data.. oh wait...

[–]kendrickshalamarNJ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Regardless of the ISP you use, the websites you visit also have their own ISPs. There's no way to really know if you'll be tracked (but you probably will be).

[–]LpupUSA 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is a gross oversimplification, and I'm sorry a free market only works when there is transparency. What are the many different ways this can be abused?

  • Say goodbye to the anonymized profile you had. Could you be figured out before based on some of that info? Sure, if one spent enough time. This allows you to go directly to the ISP only say who you wanted to collect specific data on.
  • Free markets only work when there is transparency. This isn't a free market. It is turning you into a commodity, not opening up a whole new world as a consumer.
  • Say goodbye to torrents. Entertainment companies that are vertically integrated as monopolies (Comcast) will just scrape the data claiming they bought it from themselves so it's OKAY and sue into oblivion.
  • With journalism the way it is, do you really want to trust journalists with access to your browser records? Keep in mind, Gawker published the phone numbers and socials of all gun owners in Ney York because... reasons? Imagine A group like ANTIFA being able to get access to your data. Then looking up where you work and tattling to your boss
  • Oh, don't forget foreign countries now can buy up unanonymized data. Rather than before when someone put a request a certain type of client and received anonymized
  • Opt-out; but makes it hard to find out how, doesn't have to give you a time window for opting out, or even any consequences if they lie and say it's opted out but 'WHOOPSIE' they made a boo boo and have been secretly selling it and telling you otherwise. That is assuming that they even let you and follow the law. Well at least you can always just change service provid.... oh wait, most can't.
  • BTW, you thought the NSA and CIA being able to blackmail people based on browsing history was scary? How scary do you think it's gonna get when you can target specific individuals and LEGALLY give any horrible browsing history away.
  • VPN will save us? Maybe. Keep in mind using a VPN or TOR is probable cause for law enforcement. Even then, most lower to middle class people can't afford another $20 fee on top of their current internet fees while ISPs are looking to cap the amount of data people can use on their network without getting slammed with extra fees. At best this is selling out the voters who voted for Trump. At worse, it's opening the door for no longer allowing middle/lower class internet access through price hiking to optimal cockbag levels, because profit doesn't lie with providing EVERYBODY internet.
  • What do you think would of happened in the 2016 election if this happened? If you guessed 'everyone who looks at wikileaks or anything wikileaks related becomes an 'enemy of the state' or 'aiding an embedding terror' or worse... then you are correct!

I voted for Trump because I was scared of the Draconian overreach that Hillary had exposed via Wikileaks, not so Trump could sign off on the different kinds of Draconian measures.

[–]ObiMemeKenobiUSA 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is much appreciated

[–]448Ul61VunsU 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Imo, it's one thing when amazon targets me by analyzing my purchase history; it's another thing entirely when usps opens my amazon packages then starts sending me ads based on the packages they opened.

Now, if this bill accompanied a deregulation of ISOs, allowing for competition of ISPs that either do or do not analyze traffic, IMO that would be fine.

[–]jChristopherj 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Non-ISPs can only see a small part of the puzzle, whereas ISPs can see everything. ISPs also have a huge fucking monopoly; you can choose not to use Facebook, but you rarely have a choice in who your ISP provider is.

I would be ok with this if you do in fact have the ability to opt out, but it is my understanding that you won't be able to. This is a key point.

If you can't opt out, then there is nothing fueling this other than outright corruption, and in that case I really hope President Trump vetos this.

[–]Wolf3500KEK 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Companies always say they want to collect data for the sake of marketing. I don't care whether that is true or not, if we keep increasing data collection on average people it will lead to an Orwellian world. That is why this data collection needs to regulated or throw out completely as a violation of the forth amendment.

[–]trumppleRUS 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (21子コメント)

So if it reverses something that was done 3 weeks before Trump's inauguration then where was the controversy for 8 years?

[–]calm-forestOH 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Not only does it reverse a very young regulation, but it reverses a young regulation that never went into effect.

Literally absolutely nothing has changed since the day you first got online.

You should all also read about PII, and what our current laws already do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personally_identifiable_information

As a last thought: If you don't want your ISP to see your data, take the precautions to protect it. Use a VPN (not PIA... that news ad they took out is a marketing money grab... US VPN companies are not to be trusted.), encrypt everything you can, use GPG (PGP) for sensitive emails, etc.

[–]Wtf_socialism_reallyUSA 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (8子コメント)

When you use a VPN, you lose a lot of your speed. Especially if you go outside of your region.

That is a workaround, not a viable fix. We live in America, we're supposed to be able to have our cake and eat it too.

[–]OnlyTrump16USA 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's fear mongering BS. Fake news is making it sound like we're about to have our rights and privacy taken away.

[–]I_AM_TRY 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is it fake news? Your Internet history has never been sold like this would allow. Cookies track your Web history and Facebook et al. can track you, but you could avoid those websites or use ghostery, adblockers, and disable cookies. The ISPs will be able to sell everything, completely eroding the last bit of privacy. That isn't fake in any sense of the word. It also isn't fear mongering. There are reasons we need privacy and I'd be happy to provide you with some historical examples of the necessity of privacy if you have not heard/read about any.

[–]Jack_CandleNAVY 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its fair to say that the discussion wasn't being had then because we were all worried about the election, pizza gate, Comey letter, and all that. Now we have a fake Russia narrative going on so we have time to talk about this and its for this story to bubble up to the surface. It's bad regardless of when it was or was not in place.

[–]Optimus_Prime3 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I haven't seen where you can opt out of the data collection from your ISP, can you point me to that?

[–]shadowman3001BPA[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Easiest is to point to http://www.tomsguide.com/us/senate-isps-private-data,news-24737.html which explains that it's an opt-out that you have to contact your ISP for.

[–]InvictumAquilaeTN 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Personally I don't want anyone to have a right to see or sell data they have collected from me unless they get express permission separate from terms of service.

I'm of the opinion that no one including the government and private companies has the right to gather personal information and that the constitution guarantees that right.

[–]OldRuskiNoir 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Opt-in/out"

That will work great! Just like the Do Not Call list has!

[–]CovenantX 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think of an ISP much differently than I do an app or a browser. Apps and browsers collect only a fraction of my data and I can choose not to use our disable permissions. The ISP, however, sees all and knows all from browsing to apps because it can collect base level data. We are already surveilled by the government enough why should an ISP, to which I pay for money to, further monetize my life?

[–]51BootwearerUSMC 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Against, but I'm against most of what the Republicans do.

It's usually just pandering to the people who pay them the most.

I'm hopeful that Trump will veto the fuck out of this bill.

[–]shadowbananawarenessUSA 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The rule was issued on December 2, 2016 and took effect on January 3, 2017, less than three weeks before President Trump took office.

This is just political theater.

[–]sh2003KEK 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I've read both sides. The difference is - with Netflix/Facebook/Twatter, you can OPT OUT of using those services if you don't want them collecting your data. I've deleted my Facebook for example. You can't just stop using an ISP if it's the only one in your area (COMCAST). If we had more ISP choices that offered privacy protections and offered up some real choices then I'd be ok with it since I had a choice to have a private connection or not.

[–]CrossCheckPanda 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think the issue is the monopoly and difficulty of finding a new ISP. If I don't like Googles data collection policy I can use bing or yahoo. If I don't like reddits policy I can use voat or 9 gag or something.

If I don't like time Warners policy I can suck it up and deal or simply not have Internet.

[–]Commander_KEKUSA 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My problem here is that I am paying my Internet Service Provider for a service. As long as they are taking my money they should be advocating for me, Not advertisers.

It is no different then the employee that steals all the left overs from a catered lunch at the office after everybody else goes home for the day. Why do ISP's feel entitled to take data that dosn't belong to them, just because they have access to it and sell it for a profit?

[–]YourFriendlyVikingFL 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't see why anyone would support this bill. I have been a hard core Trump supporter since the very beginning and if he would sign this bill it would devistate my opinion of him.

Just because some companies already do have our private history doens't make it right or OK that others might have it as well. I don't think anyone should have any personal information on us without our consent. This goes against our core values as Republicans for a smaller goverment and our security.

Whoever voted yes on this bill should have their personal information on Billboards across the United States.

[–]Gridorr 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You offered both sides????? You ARE real news. Thank you. You just did better journalism then all of MSM simply by giving both sides

[–]vpny 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Difference is I have a choice to stop using Twitter or Facebook or any other service that collects my data. Ontop of that, they are free services so that's the trade off in this case. I don't have a choice to change ISP when they're all collecting the data AND when I'm PAYING them for the service in question.

[–]RightTheirWrongs 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Anytime you give a company with no direct competition MORE power, it's not a good thing. Those who obtain power will fight to keep it. When given the tools and the power, they will both be abused.

It's like when comcast started putting data caps on home Internet, because there is only one ISP choice, I HAVE to live with it. So now its data caps and selling my personal info, all while charging me INSANE prices, all thanks to no competition.

To argue, " Well others do it too " is not good enough for me. I am not worried about the poor ol ISP company not getting more of me than some other crummy website I don't believe in. I can choose not to use Facebook and apps, I cannot choose my ISP. Let's do away with rules that allow these monopolies to exist, and maybe when there are numerous options, THEN we can discuss what a free market may or may not do, but right now, we do not have one.

[–]bitchalotCA 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So far anti privacy legislation and data aggregation hasn't been positive for the public. After watching the Trump witch hunt with the Media and others twisting every bit of information they could find into propaganda, it surprising any politician would support it. Trump supporters were outed, harassed. On Reddit some from the T_D are labeled and banned. Conservatives have been censored on Twitter, Youtube and other sites. What stops ISPs from sharing who goes to those sites? I just don't see any upsides to sharing/selling this information. Would love it if Trump came out against it.

[–]DrSultanPhDDCA 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trump needs to veto this.

[–]SaltmineinspectorDTOM 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (33子コメント)

My two cents.

It is government regulation therefore it is bad.

[–]THORisHIDING 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (17子コメント)

I am normally first in line for this argument but this is not a circumstance where the market can dictate behaviors. Most customers are stuck in environments where they only have one ISP to choose from. They can't switch ISPs because of the possibility of this behavior and as such the market is restricted from choice.

So the true problem is the issue of consumer choice in telecommunications--but that's vastly beyond the scope of this issue.

[–]Edenburger 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You'd normally be correct but if you don't like the data collection my ISP is performing what other choice do you have? Most American's have exactly one choice for internet provider. Now that's in effect because of buying politicians and local ordinances but there is almost ZERO competition anywhere.

Until they can fix all the regulations that have created this noncompetitive terrible customer service cesspool we currently sit in for providers i'm ok with them being stricter on them when it comes to privacy regulations.

[–]usa_foot_printKEK 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thats stupid. Some government regulations are great like removing lead from paint.

[–]Fred_BastardKEK 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I commend you for presenting both sides of this argument, and a reasoned case for why you believe as you do.

I personally don't think that letting more companies collect and sell my data is the answer to crony capitalism.

I think the answer is forcing ANYONE who would collect and sell my information to:

A) Receive my explicit permission B) Compensate me for it.

The current argument made by companies like Facebook is:

A) Accepting the TOS is granting explicit permission B) The otherwise free use of the platform is your compensation.

I invite others to discuss.

[–]Wtf_socialism_reallyUSA 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

ISPs and free market don't work together in the U.S. Unless the federal government places regulations on ISP or on the city/state level, no new ISPs can break into the market.

Start up costs are astronomical, and that's assuming the city or state even allows you to do it, because they all make back door deals with the ISPs.

Google has been in battle with the big name ISPs (Comcast, ATT, Verizon) because they made such deals, and they utilized loop holes forcing Google to create entirely new infrastructure.

This has completely stopped the free market -- monopolies and oligopolies are counters to capitalism -- and without first stopping those situations, nothing will happen.

Not every start up has Google's brand or wealth -- in fact, none do. So how does a free market work in this situation? It doesn't.

Additionally, I do not empathize with "ISPs feeling disadvantaged". They get a shitload of my money, they don't get to save and sell my data in the future. I don't want my data to come back and bite me in the ass years later like the left tried to do with the "grab them by the pussy" crap.

I have the options to avoid people who sell my data. I don't have to use Google, I don't use Twitter, I don't use Facebook.

There are no options with ISPs. They ensure that in most cities, in most states. They also don't invest in their infrastructure using all that extra profit, making me emphasize even less. We are so far behind in our infrastructure, and people are brainwashed into thinking that 12Mbps is "high speed internet".

If people want a free market in internet, then there is a paradox. There must be regulations somewhere, be it on city/state governments or the ISPs themselves.

Finally, if the argument truly was that "wahh we are disadvantaged", then they could amend it to stop everyone from selling our data.

But it turns out that people are willing to let their data get shopped around as a commodity, and oh if the government happens to pay for certain data, well there's a loophole for them too. Oh, and if someone has anything against one of my fetishes, who knows! It might come up in some form of background check. Oh, and if I say something stupid, it might get pulled out of context because it's saved and sold.

The arguments in favor of allowing ISPs to sell our data are illogical and do not take into account reality in the market.

Hilariously if this argument worked, we would actually have more ISPs than we do, but instead we have a shining example (Google) of how hard it is to offer actually good speeds and not play by the ISPs' rules.

This push against net neutrality is something I do not approve of and I will be voting against my current representative for voting for this. My data is not a commodity. My data is mine. I can walk around the world without having someone spying on me 24/7, why can't the internet be that way?

[–]butka 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The difference is Google, Facebook, etc. provide a free product to consumers to be sold in exchange for the free service.

ISPs are charging for their service, and now they get to sell our data? There's a chance to avoid using facebook and Google. You can't avoid connecting through your ISP, and often times there's only one or two choices for ISPs.

It's not apples to apples and you shouldn't bend over for this shit. Fuck that.

[–]MichiganMaga313 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't give me the "free market will fix it" response here when the telecom companies are a giant monopoly and the cost of entry is so high that even Google is having second thoughts on implementing fiber.

And this opt out nonsense? Please. These companies know they have a monopoly and they will not care one way or the other, because if anything happens all they'll receive is a slap on the wrist.

Trump isn't attached to this. This bill is Congressional. This bill is dangerous Neo Con bullshit right here. Let Trump know that you hate this and to veto it.

[–]GingerMan512KEK 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is how I understand this. Obama let the FCC oversee "the internet". Being under the FCC they can regulate language and content like they do with radio, print, and TV. So now they can deem something offensive or hate speech and ban it. That's why we want it back with the FTC.

[–]gwrightivCA 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

If you guys want privacy, you should consider using a VPN service or creating your own VPN. Your traffic is not secure and therefor it is is readable/collectable/sellable. Maybe try Tor.

[–]Rekd998 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Is this why now my amazon kindle seems to know what books to recommend based on what I've been doing on my computer?

Kinda creeped me out... I don't have anything to hide but it's still discerning.

[–]ITworksGuys 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, that is Amazon doing that. It doesn't have anything to do with your ISP.

You probably have cookies reporting back to Amazon about what pages you are visiting.

[–]DrinkourwayoutofitPA 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dump the regulation and have Congress pass a bill outlawing the collection and marketing of Internet users' personal information. Let's not have any more of this crap, "Oh, the bureaucracy implemented a regulation and it's up to Congress to herd enough cats to toss out the regulation within 90 days or it's permanent!" No. Congress has legislative authority, not some bureau's full-time intern's summer intern, in charge of drafting something that sounded cool when Steve Colbert said it once.

[–]Islam-Delenda-Est 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

For people who want to do their own research, here is the regulation being repealed:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/12/02/2016-28006/protecting-the-privacy-of-customers-of-broadband-and-other-telecommunications-services

Here is the justification the chairman of the privacy committee gave for its repeal:

https://www.flake.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/op-eds?ID=8CE124FD-0E25-4702-8CF0-AB5B31AF4953

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1vbscpEvCY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVpXF9kPYpI

TL;DR: This repeal isn't bad, we survived till 2017 without these regulations, they were pretty much just a powergrab from FTC->FCC anyway which makes the regulatory environment more complicated because edge providers and ISPs will have completely different privacy regulations with them in place. Trump should veto it anyway, Internet privacy is the new third rail of politics, and taking it away looks worse than medicare cuts, even if it is completely harmless and justified.

[–]mafck 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Should do a post like this for Ryancare and Randcare as well. Ryancare fixing Obamacare (getting rid of the mandate while keeping the 'pre-existing conditions' clause) and Randcare injecting free market principles back into the system. Both can be implemented together and is part of what Trump is calling his 3 stage process.

[–]shadowman3001BPA[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm hoping for something a bit better than just a post, but something's in the works. Shhhhhh

[–]Lynchton 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Veto this shit. The best argument for this is it's not fair that only some people should do a bad thing so let's allow everyone to do a bad thing. How about going the other direction and stopping the big websites. As others have pointed out, "the free market will fix it" side argument is also bunk as long as there is not currently a free market with ISPs.

How does this help Americans, "the forgotten man"? How does this improve the economy? How does it make America great in any way? It's special interest swamp bullshit and Trump signing this would be the first thing he's done as president to disappoint me. At the very least use it as a bargaining chip for votes on something actually beneficial.

[–]LiberalTearsQQ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I doubt he will veto. It he doesn't it will be the first (and hopefully only) time Trump disappoints me.

[–]nonameforyou1234 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This country needs opt-in laws. I'm so fucking sick of this opt-out bullshit.

If I notice an uptick in junk mail or whatever it's getting stuffed in an envelope and going to my representatives.

Sick and tired of shit like this.

[–]bennybugbug 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Big companies like InfoGroup, Acxiom, Dun & Bradstreet, and countless other thrive with personal information data sets. No doubt they partner with the likes of Facebook, Twitter, etc to maximize advertising dollars.

This is simply a money grab. Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing.

PLEASE NOTE: DO NOT FILL OUT WARRANTY CARDS OR SUBMIT THE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS ASKED. If you buy a toaster there is no reason to self submit answers to whether or not you own a dog/cat, your household income, your children's age, if you like magazine subscriptions, etc. They sell this data and cooperatively work with the above companies and credit card companies to target you EVERYWHERE.

[–]chickwafferOH 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you'll be able to find a single sub other than TD that shares information from both sides of an argument without it becoming an absolute shit show. thank you for the unbiasedness and civility based mod

[–]DOUBLE_ANAL_DISASTERVA 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

We should be doing what's best for American citizens instead of advertisers. Ever google or buy something and see ads for it pop up a day later? Ever go into Google's or Facebook's privacy settings and see that it's impossible to turn off targeted ads?

It's creepy, it's disturbing, it needs to end.

[–]lager81 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice post, MAGA

[–]BCSinReversePA 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

No one shoupd be able to sell your data. OP's arguement seems to be that everyone should be able to.

[–]DragofireheartNH 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

This bill offsets the late-January FCC rule preventing ONLY ISP's from collecting and selling your data. Not the rest of the internet.

So basically there's a lot of noise over nothing?

If they want to restrict sharing of data they should apply it to all companies and not just the ISPs.

Why were only ISPs targeted originally?

[–]jiujiujiuUSMC 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd prefer no company be able to sell my internet usage history or even keep tabs on that history in any way. If it is part of their terms of use for their service then make it obvious so I can opt-out of using their service. YOU KNOW WHEN YOU RUN FOR OFFICE IN THE FUTURE FUCKERBERG WILL PULL UP ALL THE SHIT YOU'VE EVER TYPED INTO THE INTERNET AND SPREAD IT FAR AND WIDE FOR ALL TO SEE. Privacy is paramount.

[–]brad1242 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I made a long post about this but its hard to get traction here with all the high energy shitposts, so i'll paste what I had written here.

TL;DR - looks to be swamp legislation to me

I've done a fair bit of reading over the past 48 hours about S.J. Res 34 (also sometimes called H. Res 34) and was waiting for a topic to pop up here, but given that one hasn't yet, I feel that we need to address it here on T_D. All of the left-wing articles will be heralding the passage of this bill as the apocalyptic, cataclysmic demise of every tenet of freedom, but in reality this is not really the case. The passage of this bill just essentially maintains the former status-quo. This bill is to essentially reverse legislation that Obama passed at the very end of his presidency to no longer let ISP's share your information without directly opting in to allow this service, and it had not gone into effect yet.

From what I have read, the only difference Obama's legislation would have done would be to make data collection required to be an opt-in type service from ISP's, whereas Google and Facebook and other internet companies have more leniency with not telling you what they do with your information, if they so please. This bill reverses that and keeps it as it was, where ISP's can use and sell your data and web histories the same as non-ISP internet companies.

So do not buy into the world-is-ending hysteria that will surround this bill-reversal, but make no mistake that this is still not beneficial for any citizen, in any way. An ISP is not like Google - you still have the choice to not use Google, but in a monopoly operated area where Comcast is your only ISP choice, you HAVE to submit to their data collection practices. I'm not sure how easy it will be to opt out and to what level you'll be able to opt out of their data collection. This would be like if when you bought a new car, unless you explicitly said "don't follow me", the manufacturer had the right to track every location you drove to and how long you were parked there, and then sell this information to anyone interested for profit. This is not the same as you swiping your credit card at the store you drove to and parked at - you chose to spend money there and acknowledged your transaction there.

The conservative public stance for pushing this through is that "it increases competition for ISP's", but I fail to see how that's really the case. Is letting Xfinity / AT&T more easily sell your browser history and internet activity to advertisers really going to create better service, or is it just going to line their pockets further, because I know internet cost isn't going to decrease for me, the end consumer. The main proponent of this bill (Blackburn) received something like $700k in essentially bribe money from the ISP's. This might be an area we want to push back on - this passed the vote with only republican votes, and I know it could be a risky move to alienate republicans in the house and senate if he were not to sign this, but it could be an extremely strong unifying move for the American people if he refused to sign this.

Am I wrong about this bill? If so please let me know, but I find myself opposing the Republican consensus on this, as I can see no benefit it offers to the public, only to those being bribed by the ISP's and the ISP's themselves. This looks to be the definition of Swamp Legislation Let's let the God Emperor know that we oppose the signing of S.J. Res 34

[–]6j546h54654 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In my humble opinion, the government shouldn't allow some companies access to your data, while restricting other companies access to that same data.

apples and oranges, you don't have to go through those data collectors, you do have to go through the isp

[–]MagaMagaChooChooUSA 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I really don't like this bill. I get what the Republicans are trying to do but it isn't smart or popular. It's a losing issue even this sub is split and we're hardcore to the right.

I personally don't think it's smart to say "well Facebook gets to fuck over all its users so instead of not allowing Facebook to sell your personal data and search history, we're just going to let Comcast sell the list of porn sites you visit along with your real name and address. There, problem solved!". That's just retarded. We should be protecting our freedoms, not selling them out. This bill is a clear violation of the 4th amendment and anybody under the age of fucking 80 whose ever used a computer could tell you that.

[–]Hillarysdilddo_2016 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're free to NOT use a particular website.

What are you going to avoid the entire internet now to avoid spying?

Your ISP is not the same as a website.

[–]Goldman_BlackzKEK 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trump please drain the swamp and VETO THIS PIECE OF SHIT. I shouldn't have to opt out to not have my fucking internet history sold to the highest bidder.

[–]ZordlyDTOM 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I admit to not knowing any of the details regarding this. But my common sense tells me that the Obama rule written after the election is suspicious. And whether there is a problem or not, the Government is never the best choice for fixing it. I think the best is to just rescind Obama's order and be done with it.

[–]shadowman3001BPA[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just like that EPA regulation on coal, it was put in place so that it would have to be reversed and given negative press.

[–]Asscroft 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

How much would Clinton/Soros pay to have Comcast dox all the people who frequent this sub?

[–]DickFeelyCA 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ISPs are swamp creatures that spend millions to block competition from the market and screw Americans. Other countries have faster and cheaper internet service. The industry needs more competition, much like the health insurance industry, not less consumer protections. We're already at their mercy due to lack of choice and the difficulty of new entrants into the market, thanks again to their willingness to pay off officials.

Trump must veto if he wants to signal that he's a trust-buster who will help the average American. He knows how far the deep state will go to keep control.

Besides, how the hell does this crap get passed before gun rights bills??

[–]Texas-CentipedeTX 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

ISPs can't collect and sell my data. But websites and apps can? ISPs claim they are at a disadvantage. OK, so ban everyone from selling personal data. I don't support anyone collecting and selling my data. If your company needs to make money, make it in a different way. Selling out privacy should not be an allowable business model.

[–]ZippyTheChickenDTOM 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

shadowman3001 your thoughts on this subject are political not technology based..

I have been on the Net since before the first .com way back into the mid 1980's when I had to Telnet to IBM in armonk ny on a IP Address to read their technology files or to the Library of Congress or to a variety of other Labs on the Internet ... and there wasn't much else out there before >I< and many others built a huge chunk of what you kids today call the internet.

I have over 30 years working with computer networking.. I started before there was TCP/IP available to most people. I HAVE WRITTEN INTERNET PROTOCOL SOFTWARE INCLUDING FTP, HTTP BROWSERS, TELNET AND OTHER SPECIFIC APPS THAT ONLY HAVE ONE USE............

I am not the know all end all person of knowledge about the internet but at one point I was a contributor to the Linux Document Project and that brought me in contact with a lot of people that are much more informed than I am about how the internet works.

I have known people that ran the largest ISPs from Philadelphia PA and across our country to past the Mississippi.

If an ISP collects your data at the port or the router they know everything you do..

IF GOOGLE COLLECTS YOUR DATA THERE ARE WAYS YOU CAN BLOCK THAT.. you can not use google's services.. you can use methods to block 100% of any beacon pixels or other assets that can track you...

YOU CAN NOT BLOCK YOUR ISP FROM TRACKING EVERYTHING YOU DO

It is a completely different animal......

Choosing to use a Company's Service .. VS choosing to use the Internet at all

There is no VPN .. No Anyomizer... No HTTPS ... NO NOTHING THAT CAN STOP THE PEOPLE I KNOW FROM TRACKING EVERY LAST THING YOU DO.

If you use a VPN that VPN has incoming and outgoing traffic

Lets say you are using the vpn to watch a video on PornHub

That VPN has External Routers it connects to..

You click on a video in your browser on pornhub .. the request goes out to your VPN and then your VPN requests the video from PornHub..

The packets are sent back to the VPN and then to your computer....

HA AND YOU THINK YOU ARE ANONYMOUS ... THATS INSANE.....

The easiest way to find out what you are watching is intercept the packets from the video going into the VPN before they are sent through the VPN to your computer..

THEN ALL YOU DO IS MAKE THE VIDEO STUTTER IN A PATTERN

THE ROUTER FEEDING THE VPN HOLDS PACKETS AND YOUR BROWSER DOESN'T EVEN NOTICE BUT THE TRAFFIC COMING OUT OF THE VPN IS THE SAME PATTERN

1 - 5 - 3 - 7 - 8 - 2 - 9 - 2 - 4 GOING IN

1 - 5 - 3 - 7 - 8 - 2 - 9 - 2 - 4 COMING OUT

VPN OR NOT YOU JUST GOT BUSTED

You don't need to worry about encryption or salts or anything .. just measure time.

so you have skips or holding onto packets and the in and out is compared and they know that the video going into the vpn is being sent to the VPN USER ON A COMPUTER IN ALABAMA...

They don't have to hack the VPN Encryption because they insert skips by holding packets in a pattern... thousands of packets .. they put a stutter in them.. maybe not even enough for you to see because your browser buffers video before it plays it...

BUT THE ROUTERS CAN SEE IT...

People don't know enough about the basics of the internet because they don't care to find out about it.. all this information is out there.

Although it is important that companies like Facebook and Google get restricted from distributing our information

It is nothing in comparison to your internet connection being monitored.

NOW WITH THAT SAID...

I am not a fool .. I already know that the Government monitors all of this and they have been doing it since dialup ...

I know they do.. I know an ISP that had the Government come in an put in a system to monitor all traffic...

It was called Carnivore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software)

and today they are even better at it.

AND IF YOU THINK USING OPEN INTERNET AT STARBUCKS IS GOING TO PROTECT YOU .... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

your device is fingerprinted .. Google is about to stop requiring you to login with passwords because they are so good at fingerprinting our devices now that you can just go to gmail and autologin without a password because they know you are using IP 127.127.0.0 located in this GEOIP Area and your browser is Firefox 47 and you have these exact plugins loaded in your browser and you are using this specific operating system that has these features...

This is a bad deal and trump should veto anything that allows ISPs to sell your browsing history

OR EVERYONE THAT VISITS https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/ .. is going to be on a DNC Database....

let alone any other personal sites you might visit...

YOU ARE NOT PRIVATE ON THE INTERNET.. YOU CAN NOT HIDE ON THE INTERNET.. THEY CAN AND WILL FIND YOU ... THAT IS THE TRUTH..

If you believe otherwise you are a fool....

but comcast shouldn't be helping the DNC know my political views or if I am shopping at Amazon for a new belt for my clothes washer...

its a bad deal

Trump will get a lot of credit if he vetoes it and a lot of hate from the internet if he allows it.

[–]DJT4PRZCA[🍰] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"That means that information generated from looking up the latest Cardinals score or checking the weather in Scottsdale is treated the same as personal health and financial data."

Whoever said this doesn't understand how little data it takes to uniquely identify a person, that person's political affiliation, etc.

The 4th Amendment gives a right to privacy in "papers". Today that would include web searches.

And we don't need this shit to do counter-terrorism. Control immigration from places where there's widespread hatred of our way of life, use regular old policework and warrants, and you won't have a problem.

[–]SilverShibe 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a ridiculous post. If I use an app, I expect them to know how I use it. If I get online and buy a 3' vibrating dildo, I expect the company I bought it from to know I bought it. I wouldn't be surprised to get junk mail about giant dildo sales in the future. I don't expect the electric company to know every time I plug it in, then start sending me dildo ads in my electric bill, just as I don't want my ISP to have any idea what websites I visit.

[–]YouDontSeeMe420 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is there any way we can get god emperor and his advisers to veto this? this is a brutal anti-privacy bill.

i guess this'll be a test to see if he is a real populist after all.

[–]ShiveShivu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP, you support the bill to let all private information be gathered perfectly by ISPs, because other companies already get a little bit of information. This is a crawl-argument. "They did it, so I can do it too".

This is morally Wrong. It's not a good argument.

You also state that the government shouldn't play favorites, well this bill does that. An ISP can make a search engine if they want, they can make websites to track information too. They were never stopped from doing that.

How wrong or how good data-collection in general by other means is a different topic, but this way is brain dead. It surprises me, truly, that this is even a discussion.

No one in this debate stand to gain anything from this - only lose. This is a lose-situation for million and millions of people, but it helps out 5 companies, who doesn't need it. It's foolish beyond belief. Obvious no to this bill.

Changing this to an Opt-Out is also absolutely ridiculous.

You are literally giving up your privacy for no gain. You just...give it up. And you're giving it up on behalf of others as well.

[–]terribletweets 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP, please post your full name, address, date of birth, place of birth, and log of your browsing history.

[–]Poinciana_TreeMAGA 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think there's a time to toe the party line, and be a good Republican.

I also think there are times to stand up to the leadership and assert what's right with regards to OUR REPUBLIC AS OUR FOUNDERS INTENDED. I believe in a right to privacy, as protected under the 14th Amendment.

If I can't get off of Comcast's e-mail spam list or their affiliates who call me, you think we should trust them not to sell our browsing history after telling them not to? Sorry for my French, but FUCK THAT.

This bill is an abortion. It must get killed in the HOR.

[–]RS3_TROLLERKEK 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Obama let 4 companies manage and sell our data. It's blanketed under "privacy act" but it's just a huge invasion of privacy. Globalist bill. Trump wants it to be free market, which in turn will create more competition, lower prices, higher security. If everyone is selling everyones shit, one company can come out and say we wont sell your shit and prove it, they will take over the market. Then they will get so big they will sell shit. Then another company will come along and the process repeats

[–]flingingpoo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The issue I have is you must pay an ISP to access the internet. Sites like Facespace are free and need to generate revenue somehow.

I believe that if you pay for the service, then you should have to opt-in to allow sharing of data collected by the provider. If the service is free then the service should provide an opt-out option.

[–]Corporal_Cathead 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Literally the only place That I could find an honest discussion on this site is a subreddit called the_donald, filled with pepes.

Alternate timeline

[–]Marksk8ter11 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This post is why this subreddit is so much better than others. Links the fucking bill straight up, provides opinions for or against, let's the reader come to their own conclusions... doesn't push a narrative.

Bravo. Wtf happened to this type of stuff on other websites/subreddits?

I'm personally against the bill. I feel it was rushed with very little publicity. It's amazing how things can pass so easily when enough corporate money is behind it. Sigh.

[–]CcrLyaSrtIatLyVA 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I oppose this bill, because if there's one thing the Obama administration stood for it's data privacy.

<sips Kool-Aid>

[–]invertedwut 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

“Under the FTC’s watch, our internet and data economy has been the envy of the world. The agency’s evidence-based approach calibrates privacy and data-security requirements to the sensitivity of information collected,” Senate lead sponsor Flake wrote in a Wall Street Journal op-ed.

This guy is a fucking liar, a hack, and a fool. Privacy controls are not at all tuned for the importance of the information as it is, and nothing about our internet is the envy of the world. Our prices and service provider choice have made us the fucking laughing stock of the western world and the only people that appreciate any aspect of our privacy related laws are literal fascists that go around jailing people for tweets and facebook posts demonstrating wrong-think.

They are only able to do so elsewhere because there are no laws preventing internet applications and service providers from intrusively collecting internet activity information on users.

“The FCC rules subject all web browsing and app usage data to the same restrictive requirements as sensitive personal information. That means that information generated from looking up the latest Cardinals score or checking the weather in Scottsdale is treated the same as personal health and financial data.”

That's a strong argument against this bill, lol. browsing history being treated as sensitive private information is a fucking good thing. it's nobody's fucking business what I'm looking up on the internet.

Why I support the bill, though, is different. As it stands, every website/app/etc that you use has the right to collect and sell your private data (with a few exceptions, medical data and whatnot).

So put them under the kind of rules the FCC has and bring them up to the ISP's level of required protection of private information. raise the bar, don't lower it.

Keep in mind that it's neigh impossible to use the internet without websites and apps, and with a relatively small demand for websites that don't collect and sell, a relatively small supply has appeared.

yeah we're aware, and the exact same thing will happen when selecting an ISP. you won't have any choice if this bill passes. you'll be forced to sign an intrusive EULA to even use the internet now, at all.

Also worth noting that you can opt out of your ISP's data collection should you choose.

not when this bill passes you won't.

The free market has a way of working things out.

Not when the interests of the service providers are diametrically opposed to the interests of the users. And none of this would a fucking issue if, by the very nature of the medium and technology involved, the information being collected weren't so vulnerable to being stolen or abused. If the government couldn't subpoena (or secretly steal or secretly ask nicely for) that browsing history "being collected for marketing purposes", this wouldn't be a problem. but they can. and thus it's a problem as long as they are collecting it.

Let me reiterate, because people don't seem to be reading the text that isn't big and bold. ISPs are required to let you opt out (though they make it difficult to find out how).

That's the case now with the FCC rules, isn't it? Isn't that going out the window if this bill passes?

[–]kwame_kilpatrick 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This should be vetoed. The argument that ISPs are somehow at a "disadvantage" vs. online social media sites is very weak at best. I choose not to use Facebook, etc. because I don't want my privacy invaded. I remain as anonymous as possible on pretty much every site I use now. I don't have that option with an ISP. In many cases -- most people have only one option for an ISP (outside of cellular), and they are forced to accept it.

Selling people's browsing history, etc. is ripe for abuse. With all the leaks we have these days, how long before someone hacks this info and publishes a database of stats with your public real name, and a list of all the sites you've visited in the last year. This is dangerous and we should fight every time to err on the side of restricting people's privacy.

[–]yokehound 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Congrats on raising this here. It shows transparency and a willingness to discuss the issues.

That said, in my eyes, this is a highly egregious move and Trump will be forever a sell-out if he does not veto.

[–]wowcheesestick 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

If trump does what he says he will do. Then he will veto it. Drain the swamp. I'll be disapointed. I already know.

[–]benny_mackNE 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When did Trump claim he will use big government bureaucracy to battle private companies? Fight the real issues, local and state governments preventing a free market, don't bandaid the issue with sprawling federal bureaucracy.