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TANKIES CHIMP OUTStupid question but what's a tankie? (self.ShitWehraboosSay)

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[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (2子コメント)

user reports: 1: You shouldn't try to use big words you can't understand you reactionary piece of dogshit.

lmao stay mad. Please keep spamming comments I've made in the reports, it shows off how completely powerless and really fucking mad you are.

[–]FirninThe Galloping Ghost of the Java Coast 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (8子コメント)

the type of person who claims that Hungary in 1956 was a CIA backed plot and that the USSR was justified to send in the tanks to quash it

[–]Dongo666 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I saw a post from a Hungarian woman here on Reddit. She was saying how the US sucks for not standing up for Hungarians revolt in 1956 and instead just caring about the Jews in Israel.

That made me think. Didn't Hungary side with the Nazis in WW2 and sent troops into Russia?

You make your bed and then you lie in it. What was the US supposed to do? start a nuclear war with Soviet over Hungary? get real.

[–]FirninThe Galloping Ghost of the Java Coast 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The main reason the US couldn't help Hungary is because the Soviets invaded on the same exact day the British and French decided to be imperialists and invaded Suez

[–]helgur 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm on Dongo666's side on this one. There's very little the US & allies would have done, Suez crisis or not.

[–]FirninThe Galloping Ghost of the Java Coast 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well obviously they weren't kicking off a war, but America couldn't even tell the soviets off and try to press sanctions without being labeled a hypocrite

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure the Soviets were already labeling them hypocrites anyway, no matter what they were doing. Whatever America's other flaws, didn't they make clear that they weren't siding with the UK and France during the Suez Crisis?

Imho, the entire issue of the Soviets taking control of Eastern Europe post-WW2 is one big mess, and on the one hand, yes, the West should have tried to stop them; on the other hand, that could have meant WW3. The primary blame for the Iron Curtain lies with the USSR, no one else. The tension between the Allies over the status of Poland towards the end of WW2 in Europe was a bad sign, the first major warning of the Soviets' true intentions in the region.

[–]Layin-ScunionStalin surfed a T-34 on human waves to Berlin 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sidetrack question out of simple curiosity:

What equipment was used in the conflict? Just armor? Aircraft? What types? Did Hungary have/use any armor/aircraft to fight back?

[–]Sr_Carlos_Danger 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Soviets sent military intervention to support the flailing government there, so they were involved in asymmetrical, urban fighting with mostly civilian combatants. There wasn't any major cavalry action, but for the rest of the world, photographs of Russian tanks in the streets of Budapest were the earliest and most salient images from the conflict, so Western supporters of the Soviet intervention got their name from them.

[–]JustARandomCatholicridiculous even by Nazi propaganda standards 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

T-54 and IS-3 were used in Hungary, and I'd presume T-34/85. Amusingly, the West got its first glimpse at the T-54 when the Hungarians captured one and gave it to the British Embassy.

[–]Watchung 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (1子コメント)

For identification purposes, here are some common examples of the arguments used:

  • "The Soviet Union invaded Poland in order to save the eastern half from the Fascists!"

  • "Finnish arrogance was what caused the Winter War! The SU was reasonable to request more defensible borders."

  • "The Holodomor (assuming they admit to it, and don't just try to say it was greatly exaggerated) was a necessary sacrifice to strengthen the SU's industry enough to fend off the Germans. Besides, those reactionary peasants had it coming."

  • "The only places dissatisfied with Soviet rule were ex-Austro-Hungarian west Ukraine and recently annexed areas such as Bessarabia who for reasons no one can understand turned out to be traitors to their glorious new nation."

  • "My great uncle was in a gulag, they weren't actually that bad."

[–]calvinhobbesliker 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fun fact: after Germany invaded Russia, Stalin wrote Churchill saying "See, you should be glad I took East Poland since I would be in a worse position against Hitler otherwise."

[–]somenbjornGlörius Neutrality 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (2子コメント)

A person who defends the actions of the Soviet Regime. Different from Sovietboo since the latter is pretty much only in regards to history.

A tankie is a political idiot who sometimes do history, a sovietboo/wehraboo is an historian idiot who sometimes to politics.

[–]KerbonautCykaEinsatzgruppen were just defending the fatherland 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

At least the Sovietboos have a good idea of how crappy the German big beasts actually were.

EDIT: Changed big cats to big beasts because of the Elefant.

[–]Imperium_DragonIt took 5 M1 Abrams to kill a cat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Maybe we should call them Stavkaboos?

[–]Donny_ChestermanSeveral of them had rifles 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The specter that haunts SWS. A tankie is a hardcore Communist. The term derives from those who supported the Soviet's tank-filled crackdown in Hungary in 1956.

[–]psh454(((Logistics))) can't melt kruppstahl beams 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (0子コメント)

communist=/=tankie

Tankies are historical revisionists, that whitewash/deny crimes of communist states.

Communists are people that subscribe to Marxist ideas.

The two often come together, but are not the same thing. It's like saying that all hardcore conservatives are Nazi apologists.

[–]TheBellmanHimself(((The Weather))) 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well not a Communist so much as a Stalinist, in this context an apologist for the USSR and it's satellites.

[–]hobblingcontractor 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Feeding protesters to tanks helps them grow strong.

[–]helgur 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feeding protesters to tanks helps them grow stronk

fyp

[–]ParanoidAlaskan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You see Ivan, Protesters make tanks big and strong. So feed tank as much as you can!

[–]LtWigglesworth(((Logistics))) 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

An apologist for the crimes of the USSR.

[–]erpenthusiast 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (33子コメント)

Tankies are commie apologists. Most act like the various famines and genocides didn't happen, and when pressed will always go "but that's not real communism". Advanced level tankies defend Pol Pot, most just settle for defending the Great Leap Forward.

75% of Reddit's communist userbase is tankie on some level. Tankies generally call in increasingly large brigades of fellow tankies until subs are ruined, or if a successful banning regime is implemented they'll hide until it is safe to brigade again while other communists act like tankies are a minority and not all that bad.

in short: reddit cancer. not as bad as alt-righters and neonazis, but significantly more annoying.

[–]cnt1936 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (32子コメント)

Tankies are just apologists for the USSR, Cuba, Mao, etc. Not communism as an ideology. For instance, I am an anarcho-communist, but still denounce the states and regimes mentioned.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about[M] 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Reminder that communists should get the fuck off my board

[–]cnt1936 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Even anarcho-communists? :(

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

If you can't keep your crippling disability in your pants, yes

[–]shmusko01 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

eyy rekt

http://i.imgur.com/3papICr.gif

[–]cnt1936 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Mind if I ask your political affiliation?

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

One that doesn't involve being a completely irrelevant minority with no real power

[–]cnt1936 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Are you ashamed of your political views? Is that why you didn't tell me?

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't indulge creepy stalkers

[–]cnt1936 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hmm, disregarding questions, shame and a superiority complex. I'm gonna have to guess you're a liberal.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What comes next, a pathetic attempt at reeeeeing at me for not chugging the kool aid and being a part of your neet cult?

[–]Ankle_DragDidn't you see me waving? 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're the hero Gottem City deserves :'‑)

[–]MishRaeThe Ben Kenobi of Mods 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bismillah Comrade

[–]Xeromabinx -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Gladly.

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

E D G Y

[–]RiskyRomeoHitler was literally Hitler 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Huh. I thought we were mostly republicans circlejerking.

[–]GloriousWiresSix-Pounder Best Pounder 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

someone should do something about that Julius Caesar bugger before he makes himself the next Tarquin

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

have you got time to talk about our lord and saviour Augustus

[–]theamazingjexOuiboo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do it again, Stabber Brutus!

[–]PuddingInferno 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, we're Baathists.

[–]VoteRonaldRayGunAngles are Judische Physik 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, we're Galactic Republicans.

Now a moment of silence for the Hosnian System.

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

^ This is what communists actually believe.

[–]MishRaeThe Ben Kenobi of Mods 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

What happens if you scratch a conservative?

[–]pollandballerNazism is about accepting our differences [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Commies use "Liberal" to refer to anyone who believes in classical liberalism. So that includes both Conservatives and Progressives who are pro-democracy.

[–]MishRaeThe Ben Kenobi of Mods [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

So you'd say they're anti-democracy?

[–]pollandballerNazism is about accepting our differences [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, anti-"bourgeois democracy". But since Worker's Democracy has repeatedly proven to be a sham I would say so.

[–]Xilizhra 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (10子コメント)

What are you if you're a person who thinks the Cold War brought out the worst in both sides, and would have preferred to see the Soviet Union survive and improve, with everyone returning to progressivism?

[–]Fyre_Black 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (9子コメント)

The soviet union was a shadow of its former self after Stalin came to power. Sure, he did have a huge part in winning ww2, but his policies made almost everyone hate communism, and made the downfall of the USSR inevitable.

[–]Xilizhra 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I think that, if he'd played more fairly after WW2, things could have turned around. Heck, if post-Stalin leaders had sucked less, they'd have several decades to fix things.

[–]Fyre_Black 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Stalin couldn't play fair, because he was extremely paranoid, even more so towards the end of his life.

The leaders who followed him couldn't change much, since the party leadership was content with the status quo. Khruschev tried to "destalinize" the soviet union, but that mostly consisted of blaming everything on Stalin, while keeping silent about his own involvment.

Also, whenever a country tried to introduce reforms, they were shut down , or in other cases, like Hungary 1956, crushed by force.

[–]Xilizhra 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's basically what I meant. Everyone became way too conservative for a variety of reasons. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be, but I think it's important to recognize that the Soviet Union's failure was due to the people involved, not any inherent evil of Communism in general.

[–]GloriousWiresSix-Pounder Best Pounder 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suspect part of that was because of a certain spectre haunting Europe and trying to foment revolution. Which... kind of is inherent.

Not exactly a recipe for even-tempered interpartisan discourse.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

k lol

[–]PuddingInferno 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, sure, but "My political ideology only fails when you try to use it in the real world" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

[–]Imperium_DragonIt took 5 M1 Abrams to kill a cat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Also reforms and other complex variables did contribute to the fall of the USSR.

[–]VoteRonaldRayGunAngles are Judische Physik 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

USSR economy improved for a while under Khrushchev. He also got some decent foreign policy after the Cuban Missile Crisis punched him into reality.

The problem was that nobody could lead the USSR without getting stabbed in the back every month. Being Premier wasn't about commanding the country, but fending off hundreds of sharks all trying to bite your feet off.

If De-Stalinization had resulted in more than a few petty reforms and actually had significant cultural changes in the USSR's government it could have saved the country. Instead they used temporary solutions and never looked at the long term issues of an incredibly unstable government.

[–]Ankle_DragDidn't you see me waving? 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

a shadow of its former self

So it was a state totaled by the revolution and civil war with non-existent industry and illiterate peasant population BEFORE Stalin came to power? Jesus, wouldn't want to think what happened after.

[–]MishRaeThe Ben Kenobi of Mods 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As I said, Get the Fuck out Tankies no one likes you, you are cockroaches that infest and shit up everything

[–]Ankle_DragDidn't you see me waving? 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (10子コメント)

So, it's time to summarize:

Tankie is a vaguely-defined left-leaning person that you don't like.

[–]JustARandomCatholicridiculous even by Nazi propaganda standards 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

When we're in a shitposting mood? Absolutely. Anything left of George Patton is a tankie in disguise.

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Look at his posting history; I'm quite certain he's a tankie himself.

[–]Ankle_DragDidn't you see me waving? 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

That heavily depends on where I am at the moment. I've been called a fascist, a degenerate liberal, a tankie, a homophobe, a reactionary, a homolover, racist, CIS scum, a globalist, an imperialist. And that's only where I didn't even troll.

Kids really like made-up words meaning of which stretches wider than their assholes and then they try to explain the world through them (usually by ganging up in a nice echo chamber)

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Looking at your posting history, it's highly unlikely that anyone could have called you a liberal, degenerate or otherwise, but hey, I don't doubt that there might be communists more depraved than you are.

For some reason, the far left get off on denouncing and purging each other. Trying to outdo each other as to who can be a shittier human being. I wonder why. :)

[–]Ankle_DragDidn't you see me waving? -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They did though. Without even me identifying or aligning myself with anything liberal at that moment (if I remember right, it was when I said to someone that steering popular understanding of science under humanitarian goals is more or less ok even when it's not strictly scientific). People see what they wanna see.

communists

than you are

See? Like this.

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which only proves that those on the far left will always find something to denounce other far-leftists for.

[–]MishRaeThe Ben Kenobi of Mods 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Terry I thought you where a Putinist

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

have your warm milk terry

[–]Ankle_DragDidn't you see me waving? -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What are you, nuts? I'm not gonna make some homemade Baileys in my stomach, this shit is for chicks and self-hating liberals.

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Someone's triggered.

[–]agentnola 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A Marxist-Leninist

[–]TotesMessenger 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

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[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Please identify yourselves so you can be banned, thank you kindly

[–]MishRaeThe Ben Kenobi of Mods 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm regretting not being able to snipe them as they come over the wall this time :(

[–]SergeantSpookAfter all, if there's anyone we can trust, it's the Nazis. 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

implying we're not always anti-Soviet

[–]Imperium_DragonIt took 5 M1 Abrams to kill a cat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Who the fuck are these guys?

[–]Imposteroneoone 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Tankie is often thrown around without concern at this point because it's an easy to use buzzword with a massive array of meanings.

It's now a very common phrase for triggered reactionaries to use when they realise there's a Communist in their midst and they begin bringing up the 100 quintillion.

[–]Sr_Carlos_Danger 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Really? I usually hear it used by people on the left. Nobody hates communists like other communists, man.

[–]VoteRonaldRayGunAngles are Judische Physik 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What do you call two Trotskyists in a room?

Three splinter factions.

[–]goodbetterbestbested 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A distinction apparently lost to several people in this thread...If you don't know the basic fact that anarcho-communists vs. state communists (which includes tankies but is not exclusive to them) is the biggest divide on the left, then why even respond to this person's question?

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

found the tankie

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[–]Macho_Man_Fascist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm talking about all the way to the top, yeah. I'm justifiably in a position that I'd rather not be in. But the cream will rise to the top, ooh yeah. Macho Madness, yeah has got more to offer than those tankies think that I got yeah and let me tell you something right now, cards stacked against the Macho Man Randy Savage and SWS let me say it yeah, let me say it out loud and let me point to the communism subs, The Macho Man Randy Savage is not happy with your Brigading, yeah. I am the cream in this sub and there is no doubt about it, yeah, you /u/LordAstralWarrior you know that I'm the cream of the crop!

[–]Imperium_DragonIt took 5 M1 Abrams to kill a cat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Basically a person who likes the USSR too much. Typically a Communist or Socialist, though anyone can be a "revisionist."

[–]Nikita_S_Khrushchev*SLAMS SHOE ON TABLE* [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Even I'm embarrassed by the way you disrespect communism with your existence tankies

[–]goodbetterbestbested 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (32子コメント)

I'm wondering what the consensus of this sub would be on a person who has a healthy level of skepticism towards Western, pro-capitalist accounts of everyday life in the USSR, versus a person who goes out of their way to dismiss any negative claims about the USSR by implying that the only people complaining are the appropriated capitalists and Western capitalist nations (that is, tankies.)

Is there a space for critical discourse surrounding the typical Western perception of the USSR as an evil totalitarian empire and the perception of many people who live in the former territories of the USSR today, which is typically more nuanced?

edit: pretty ironic that most of the definitions in here say "Someone who defends Stalin" or "defending the atrocities of the USSR" but even asking this mild question and not doing either of those things gets me called a tankie...

[–]changl09Warthunder school of technical analysis 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (18子コメント)

You see komrade, if we think "the typical Western perception of the USSR as an evil totalitarian empire", then we would be chanting "muh Asiatic T-34 hordes" all day long.

[–]goodbetterbestbested 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (17子コメント)

I don't know what that means, I was just curious after reading these comments whether there was any room for nuance about the USSR, like for example the difference between the Stalin era and the post-Stalin era. But I guess not if I'm just going to be mocked by the moderators and accused of being disingenuous for even asking.

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Well, the Soviet Union didn't exactly stop being an oppressive dictatorship after Stalin died. It got a little better, that's all.

Destalinization was actually useful for the USSR in that sense - it served as a way for Khrushchev to blame all the atrocities of the Stalin era on Stalin, for the USSR to wash their hands of it, so to speak. And then continue like it was business as usual with only minor improvements.

Was it during Stalin's time that the uprising in Hungary, where we got the term "tankie" in the first place, was brutally crushed? No, it was under Khruschev. Was it under Stalin that the Prague Spring was crushed? No, Brezhnev.

[–]goodbetterbestbested 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

See, this is the kind of critical discourse I was hoping to see. I think that your characterization of destalinization as only "minor improvements" would be disputed by people who lived in the USSR at the time. I agree that the imperial actions of the USSR were atrocities.

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think that your characterization of destalinization as only "minor improvements" would be disputed by people who lived in the USSR at the time.

More because the Stalin era was so terrible than because things were so good afterwards, wouldn't you agree?

[–]goodbetterbestbested 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sure, absolutely. That doesn't mean they were as terrible as the West characterized them, though. And don't forget how bad things were before the Russian Revolution, either.

I mean, they were in a Cold War with the West: doesn't it seem natural to be equally critical of both Western and Eastern accounts of the post-Stalin era?

[–]New_KatipunanDo it again, Berserker Murphy! 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mean, they were in a Cold War with the West: doesn't it seem natural to be equally critical of both Western and Eastern accounts of the post-Stalin era?

Yes, but we also need to be careful of false balance. The idea that an issue is more balanced between two opposing viewpoints than the evidence supports. Are all opinions of equal value? No, they're not.

For what it's worth, sorry for the reactions you're getting here. I don't think you're a tankie and that's why I'm engaging with you. But I have no patience for real tankies, and there are a few already commenting on this thread. Those people condone imperialism as long as it's a communist country doing it. They fucking disgust me.

[–]goodbetterbestbested 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

One of my biggest pet peeves is the fallacy of the golden mean so don't mistake me for saying that I think the most likely truth is somewhere in the middle. I don't believe that.

My only claim is that since most of us here are likely Western, and have been exposed to mostly Western, Cold War ideas of the USSR; and since apparently the issue of the legacy of the USSR is far more closely divided within the former USSR (as well as parts of the Eastern Bloc); that should cause a person to be open to the notion that things are likely to be more nuanced than either viewpoint.

edit: Just to clarify, personally I'm glad the USSR is gone because the Cold War scares the crap out of me and it had to end one way or another...

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

critical discourse

wants things to fit a rose tinted view

alrighty then

[–]goodbetterbestbested 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think you might be mixing me up with someone else because I didn't present any view at all about the USSR, much less a rose-tinted one. Maybe those Russians and residents of former Soviet oblasts have a rose-tinted view, since in many of them a majority of people polled think that the break-up of the USSR harmed their country more than helping it.

I genuinely don't know, because I am an American, who has been exposed to the Cold War viewpoint of the USSR my entire life.

Given that's the case, it makes sense to be critical of both that viewpoint and the one on the opposite side, that of tankies who deny all Soviet crimes.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

k

"im open minded"

[–]goodbetterbestbested 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If people in those countries have that viewpoint, the people who would know the best, then why shouldn't I be open-minded to the idea that the American Cold War view of the USSR might be somewhat inaccurate, just as the tankie view of the USSR surely is?

[–]GloriousWiresSix-Pounder Best Pounder 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I think there is, but any time someone mentions Communism as an ideology the thread goes straight down the toilet to "liberal scum!" "commie vermin!" territory, and the janitors were fed up to the gills with that last year, hence the purges.

[–]goodbetterbestbested 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Communists using the word liberal as a derisive is so counter-productive. It makes me really sad how they willfully ignore that any effective political action takes lots of people and there simply aren't enough communists around anymore to turn away regular pro-capitalist liberal folks as allies. They read so much historical communist writing that they forget that circumstances were very different for the leaders of communist revolutions of yesteryear than anything that could happen in the foreseeable future.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

that's adorable you think you're their ally. You're not.

[–]goodbetterbestbested 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not saying I'm their ally: I'm saying that they're clueless for rejecting allies if they want to get anything done at all, because there are so few of them.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

they wouldn't be communists if they could play nicely with others smh

[–]GloriousWiresSix-Pounder Best Pounder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Probably better to be rejected outright than 'accepted' and sent to the wall When The Revolution Comes and you've outlived your usefulness.

[–]goodbetterbestbested 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, for me. I was commenting on how dumb their strategic thinking is. They still think it's 1917 and there's a vanguard army waiting just over the horizon.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about[M] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Piss off would be the answer since you're a tankie trying to pretend they aren't

[–]shmusko01 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Tankies playing the "just asking questions" card

[–]goodbetterbestbested -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not a tankie. I am a social democrat. My question was "is there space for questions?" It was the most mild one I could ask and yet look at the reaction here.

[–]goodbetterbestbested 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm not a tankie, please don't ban me. I'm more of a social democrat who has tankie friends so I've been exposed to both idiotic and less idiotic arguments. The thing about people in former Soviet territories having more positive perceptions about the USSR than people in Western countries is something I learned in a class titled "Russia in Transition" that I took in 2007.

[–]changl09Warthunder school of technical analysis 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

So positive that almost all of them purposed to ban communist symbols and some of those laws actually got through?

[–]goodbetterbestbested 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

"A majority of Russians think it’s a real shame the USSR isn’t around anymore, according to a survey released by Pew Global Research on Thursday. Out of a sample of 1000 people polled last month, 55 percent agreed with the statement that 'it is a great misfortune that the Soviet Union no longer exists.'"

"After more than two decades of wars, revolutions and economic collapses, residents of states formerly part of the Soviet Union are more than twice as likely to say the split from Russia harmed their countries than benefitted them, according to Gallup poll results) released Thursday." edit: added direct links to the polls

[–]changl09Warthunder school of technical analysis 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Update your numbers you silly tankie

[–]goodbetterbestbested 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your poll is talking about Russia today as a threat. That's not relevant to their thoughts on the USSR. It's also about the entire Eastern Bloc, not just former parts of the USSR.

I'm not a tankie, I am a social democrat. Most tankies hate liberals, I'm a liberal in their eyes.

[–]changl09Warthunder school of technical analysis 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The first half of your article from Aljezzeria paraphrased a RT article, that's a red flag on the get go.
Furthermore, going through your poll this little gem popped up:

"Residents who say that "most people" in their country are afraid to openly express their political views are more likely to say that the collapse harmed their country than those who say that "no one" is afraid. This suggests the freedom they thought they might have after the fall of the Soviet Union has not materialized -- and in some cases, the situation may be even worse. Under the strict regime in Tajikistan, for example, 61% of those who say most people are afraid also say the breakup hurt their country, compared with 35% of those who say no one is afraid."

Not to mention most of younger generations thin drastically different from the older ones.

[–]goodbetterbestbested -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ignore the article if you want, that's why I provided the direct link to the poll.

I read the poll, too. That paragraph says that people who think the current atmosphere is that people are afraid to speak up are also more likely to say that the break-up hurt their country. Here:

Under the strict regime in Tajikistan, for example, 61% of those who say most people are afraid also say the breakup hurt their country, compared with 35% of those who say no one is afraid."

People who say that others are afraid to express their views say the break-up hurt their country. That means people who recognize that people are afraid to speak up also think the break-up of the USSR harmed their country.

[–]phoenixbasileusPoland shouldn't have been flashing that Danzig Corridor about -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

k lol

[–]JavaX_SWING 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

god damn dude ur on a power trip aren't you

[–]MishRaeThe Ben Kenobi of Mods 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah not really, we have a distinct Anti Nazi, Anti Alt-Right, Anti tankie Policy