全 167 件のコメント

[–]AddemF 80 ポイント81 ポイント  (7子コメント)

There is a march for Science coming up, a big one in DC an several smaller ones around the country, I presume.

https://www.facebook.com/marchforscience/

I first heard about it from a Physicist friend and my impression is that it will be well-populated by working scientists.

[–]limeyNinja 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What about the broken ones?

[–]Mako2100 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the same group, just whether they're in the lab or outside.

[–]lledo43 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

actually it sounds like it'll be well-populated by SJW morons

lol no thanks, that crap sounds retarded :)

[–]AddemF 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sure SJWs will be there, but I don't particularly mind, as long as the demonstration stays on-message. The website suggests that it probably will. Me and some of my friends who are scientists will be too and that's more important to me.

[–]self3dot0 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am not a working scientist, but had a long career in technology. I've already booked my travel to the march.

[–]AddemF 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No need to be a scientist, although I think there will be a lot of them there. Just someone who thinks reason and objective truth should be values in our political offices.

[–]AlbertP95 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Perhaps you can add instructions how European and other non-US scientists can contribute. It's a problem here as well, scientists of my university with dual Dutch/Iranian nationality have already been denied access to the USA.

[–]quaz4rCondensed Matter Theory[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm in contact with one of the originators of the petition so I'll message him and see if him and his team have ideas

[–]Speculater 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

All scientists should boycott all American conferences. It's simple. But it won't work.

[–]G-E-B 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think American politicians would care, honestly. It would also make conference attendance impossible for scientists in the US who hold citizenship in one of the targeted countries.

[–]Speculater 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That they wouldn't care is the saddest part, and partly why I said it wouldn't work.

[–]likeanovigradwhore 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I second this, other than boycotting conferences, what can we do as scientists and studentscientists?

[–]self3dot0 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just an opinion, but I believe one of the ways for non-Americans to help is to pressure your own governments to not give in when Trump tries to bully you into conciliatory positions on climate, trade, human rights, immigration, etc. etc. What do others think of this?

[–]hikaruzeroComputer science 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It might help the cause considerably to get r/science and r/askscience on board with a stickied post in a similar vein to this one.

[–]quaz4rCondensed Matter Theory[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I've messaged /r/science with no response. It's in the hands of Redditors now

[–]hikaruzeroComputer science 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Cheers! What would you say is the best way to, for lack of a better phrasing, rouse the rabble and get r/science mods' attention that this is something subscribers to their subreddit want? Messaging the mods directly?

[–]quaz4rCondensed Matter Theory[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably to get some number of redditors to message them directly and point out the above message carefully defends the scientific nature of this issue. They are free to copy any part of the message.

[–]SometimesY 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/science has long been a terribly run sub.

[–]LV426- 81 ポイント82 ポイント  (36子コメント)

It's just sad that the political climate has come to this. The US has many flaws, but part of the reason it was a powerhouse in the 20th century was because it attracted the absolute best scientists from all races and backgrounds, and for that reason alone I still believe it has the potential to be the greatest country in the world. I think the vast majority of people underestimate the impact that people in STEM who do incredibly difficult, technical work have in the development and long term stability of a nation.

I can't help but think of the long-term implications of Trump's actions on the scientific productivity of the US -- to the extent that they would dissuade excellent grad students, post docs, etc. from attending our institutions, or (if things get really bad) pushing lots of extremely qualified people away to other universities and companies abroad. Tough times.

[–]whiteflagwaiverUndergraduate 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I plan to do postdoc, currently an undergraduate. All of this has 100% dissuaded me from doing it within the US.

[–]destiny_functional 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (31子コメント)

i agree with most of what you say, but

I still believe it has the potential to be the greatest country in the world.

a bit over the top statement isn't it? how would you even measure "greatness" of some country and compare it to others? i don't think people of science (at least) should be talking like this. a more moderate way of expressing the hope of improvement in your country would be appropriate.

[–]johnlennin 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Scientists are not restricted to speaking in a scientific way. You're right, the greatness of a country is not something you can measure with a ruler or weigh on a scale. Which means it's not a scientific question, but one of values and perspectives.

[–]The_Serious_Account -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Let's say you're in 3rd grade and there's some competition. Nobody cares if they win, except this insecure kid in the back. What harm is there in all of us just agreeing the kid won? Just let him have it.

[–]antonivs 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's kind of how we ended up where we are right now.

[–]MunkiRench -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How is this relevant?

[–]FlavourdynamicsParticle physics 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I still believe it has the potential to be the greatest country in the world.

Oh, who cares. By saying this kinda nonsense you're just alienating the people who aren't from there.

[–]HeilHitla 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea, I bet some potential immigrant was dissuaded because someone on the internet said something about making America great.

[–]BigManWithABigBeard -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

LOOK AT ALL THE FREEDOM WE HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sarcasm

[–]TouchMyDuck 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'll be honest if it offers a different perspective from a non-US citizen.

I simply viewed Trump's win and shift in funding from space to the wall for example as "Well, that's America's loss and Europe's gain", as if it would simply pass some of America's scientific "power" to Europe, BUT with the clampdown on climate research and threats against universities like UC Berkeley, even outsiders as far afield as Germany are now worried about the very real impact this will have on everyone.

So for what it's worth, we're with the progressive insurgency.

[–]quaz4rCondensed Matter Theory[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We appreciate your support. I would provide the following counter argument for the sake of it. America (fortunately or unfortunately) has a number of important, and very expensive, international science facilities-- to name a few popular in physics specifically: FermiLab, MagLab, DUNE. Restriction of international access (direct or indirect) will not be beneficial in the short term because new facilities will need to be built outside of the U.S., which we all know is a very slow process.

[–]mO4GV9eywMPMw3Xr 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

But how would you convince for example Europeans that they should help the American community?

I seen people mocking the tiny crowds protesting against Trump in Hungary or Germany on the base that American politics is irrelevant to the rest of the world.

[–]destiny_functional 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's not completely irrelevant to europeans, however it's difficult to say how people based in europe could help. for instance, i don't think i would be entitled to sign a petition when i'm not citizen of that country.

personally i haven't seen mocking of people protesting against trump in germany. most of the german public are very critical towards trump. the overall sentiment towards trump and his policies is negative (virtually only the far right welcomes trump's doing).

[–]6onthebeach 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unfortunately American politics is not irrelevant to the rest of the world, the country is far too big and powerful for that. American policies can and do affect the outside world (e.g. climate change, wars, trade deals). Also part of the protest in the UK was about pressuring our PM to stop sucking up to Trump. I'm not sure what people in other countries can do to help the Americans themselves, but we can try to influence our own politicians to make life harder for yours.

[–]Winston_Smith1976 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Politicization of science is a mistake. Any involvement in politics, for any reason, costs credibility, and the broad credibility of science is necessary for survival of humanity.

We will regret this involvement.

[–]BerserkFuryKitty 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except.....our president and right extremists don't believe science has any credibility already.

[–]jdosbo5Nuclear physics 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Serious question: I had tried to sign the petition last weekend and my email got bounced several times due to the high traffic of emails that the address was receiving. Is there a way of getting around this?

[–]quaz4rCondensed Matter Theory[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

My good friend and colleague (regrettably trapped) is one of the authors of this petition and he says that they've since changed servers and it should work. They didn't expect this large of a response initially. If it is still not working, let me know and I'll contact him

[–]jdosbo5Nuclear physics 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Awesome thanks a lot. I'll give it another try and see if it goes through. The website has changed dramatically since last weekend and admittedly I hadn't tried again since my email had bounced several times earlier in the week.

[–]fishify 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My own experience is that my first four tries bounced, but so far the one I sent on Jan. 31 has not bounced. Fingers crossed that this time it actually went through. Glad to hear they've worked to address this problem.

[–]rantonelsString theory 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (15子コメント)

I'm going to try to find out what I can do as a non-American citizen, but ultimately Americans only can fight against fascism in their own country.

I hope this results in the development in the US of a mature antifascist culture, something I don't think they ever realized they needed. In any case I really wish upon the American people to be able to see this pile of shit through. (Hopefully in time).

[–]hatperigeePhysics enthusiast 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (11子コメント)

but ultimately Americans only can fight against fascism in their own country.

We really can't, the system doesn't allow for it.

[–]Project_HoneyBadger 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (9子コメント)

The system didn't allow for the abolishment of slavery either.

[–]hatperigeePhysics enthusiast 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yea, that only took a few hundred thousand deaths to implement, and ~100+ years of civil fights (where it can be argued that the rights are still not equal even today)

[–]Project_HoneyBadger 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

That shows how strongly some people will cling to their ideals. The people that died so that slavery could be abolished should be lauded and their sacrifice shouldn't be given a negative light. If rights aren't equal now than they should be and that requires civil fights. If the civil war never happened can you imagine how many more men women and children would be in slavery to this date. I'd rather our country be able to be above racial discrimination so that we can use our considerable assets toward helping those that are currently being oppressed throughout the world.

[–]hatperigeePhysics enthusiast 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'd rather our country be able to be above racial discrimination

We aren't there yet. Case in point: Senor Trump's rise in popularity and gain of power, which (re-)legitimized racial discrimination.

[–]Project_HoneyBadger 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That would be what I'm talking about. I thought this thread had the context to imply that.

[–]hatperigeePhysics enthusiast 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe, it's entirely possible we're saying the same thing and I missed it. I'm not perfect in picking up all context in text conversations.

[–]Project_HoneyBadger 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think we are. High five?

[–]hatperigeePhysics enthusiast 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To quote the last great leader this nation had, "Mission accomplished."

/s

[–]Kimmux 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

After watching The 13th I would argue the US has perfected slavery rather than abolished it.

[–]Project_HoneyBadger 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd have to argue that just about any living condition today is better than the lives of slaves before the 13th amendment. So while not being perfect it's still a much fairer shake than the past.

[–]rantonelsString theory 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's kind of the main point, I think

[–]starhawksBiophysics 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

fascism

For fucks sake, reel back the hyperbole please.

[–]rantonelsString theory 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The word "fascism" is not a measure of seriousness or evilness or number of casualties. It describes a specific political phenomenon, methodology and philosophy and whatever else you want to throw in, whose two main universally recognized strengths are its contagiousness, and it's apparent banality. For some countries, the danger of the disease of fascism creeping up on a modern society is so serious we literally have an article of the constitutions that says:

"Don't be a fascist."

It might be this internalized national paranoia talking, but I'm looking at what is happening in the US and I have this strong feeling this is nothing new. If these people were in my country right now, I (and I think quite a few other people) would not hesitate to call them fascists, and it is really not a word we use lightly. It's just what they are.

[–]BerserkFuryKitty 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like most reasonable, critical thinking scientist...i agree. But some can't seem to keep their emotions out of political discussion and get offended by the use of words such as "fascism" and "racism"

[–]mkestrada 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel the break of form that this post brings is a worthy exception to the rule.

I signed the petition both as a STEM student and someone who is sympathetic to those affected.

Keep fighting the good fight guys!

[–]discursive_moth 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think the travel ban is silly, but is it really that dire and dramatic to just wait three months for it to end?

[–]quaz4rCondensed Matter Theory[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

More stipulations on bans of this sort in the works according to multiple journalists. Also, no guarantee this ban will end-- the bill calls for specific terms to be met and there is already doubt that the afflicted countries will meet them. Regardless-- all of my colleagues, friends, and even my flatmate from a foreign country(any of them) have been advised by their lawyers to not leave the country indefinitely because it seems apparent they have no legal protection. Furthermore, since science conferences are on the brink of being yanked from the US, where many are traditionally held, it would be great to have some damage control in the form of legislation guaranteeing the saftey of all scientists travelling here on visa

[–]HeilHitla 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

bipartisan

sign this petition against the immigration ban

lol

[–]Aakast 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The free flow of people and information certainly is a great supporting element in furthering "science".
However this is very much a post in an ideological perspective.
If you believe that U.S.A. should open their borders, fine. However I do not believe this to be an appropriate post for this sub, regardless of the number of people sharing your opinion.
There's a reason for keeping political discussions out of these kind of subs.
It creates a hostile environment.
That doesn't necessarily make you, or anyone else for that matter, hostile. It does make people afraid to speak their mind if they disagree on this matter and it can transcend into discussions on subjects that this sub was made for.

I would therefore kindly ask people not to condone this post, so that the moderators will refrain from accepting posts, which further certain political agendas.

[–]YES_ITS_CORRUPT 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This message should adress all of politics and media. Even if you have the best message anyone has ever written it will just get twisted or misrepresented. If it somehow miraculously gains any traction at all it will just get ignored or met in some half-shady-way. Then in the long run they will retract it or probably hit back harder. Trump is just a symptom. Like how come all you had to choose from was two complete idiots. If I were on an island with like 100 other people and those two started shouting and trying to commandeer everyone I would just turn my back and walk away. Actually almost every leader in the human history have been too much of an idiot, we should have astronomically higher expectations of them. By shouting at the current administration you're giving the people running the show credibility. All people involved in media and politics need to be put in prison indefenitely.

[–]tuqqs 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Politicization of science is necessary for survival of humanity.