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Forums: Religion: omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent |
| 8/16/2008 2:39:04 PM | Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent | | denguefever
Lancashire
United Kingdom
50, joined Dec. 2007
| It is claimed that the God of the bible is omnipotent (all-powerful), omnipresent (in all places at the same time), omniscient (He knows everything), and omnibenevolent (He only does things that are all good).
As you shall soon see, not only are these concepts utterly impossible from a logical standpoint, but for the God of the Judeo-Christian bible, they are mutually exclusive with each other, and therefore no such being as the Christian God can possibly exist.
Before I get to the logic behind these statements, first you should know that each of those concepts is refuted in the bible. That's right. The bible, the ONLY source of information about God, does not support these strange notions.
Omnipotence:
The bible says "With God, all things are possible." But there are instances in the bible where God cannot in fact do everything.
In Judges 1:19 we read: "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
So, if you want to triumph over God, get yourselves some chariots of iron-- that's the way.
Can God destroy the Devil? Then why doesn't He? If God is the most compassionate of any entity, then why doesn't He release people from the hell that He created, the hell that He sent people to? Is it because He is unable to do so? Or unwilling? Or not completely merciful?
Omnipresence:
Christians claim that there God is everywhere, all places, at the same time. He fills the universe with his presence. But there are biblical passages which refute this bizarre notion. Let us first consider Deuteronomy 23:12-14.
"Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:
And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee."
Christians should be embarrassed that this absurd passage is in their holy book. It is one of the most absurd things I have ever had the misfortune to read. It is apparent that God is too easily offended by a natural process which he knows all humans are subject to, even Jesus Christ. He himself designed the process, as claimed by his believers. Yet the Almighty seems awful squeamish-- perhaps he is afraid he might step in something.
Omniscience:
There are real problems with this idea.
If God is omniscient, he should NEVER change his mind.
Think about that carefully.
How could someone who knows the future change his mind?
Changing his mind means that he did not know what he was going to do or what was going to happen, and shows his uncertainty.
But the bible is full of instances where God changes his mind.
For example, first is Exodus 32:14. After the incident when God's Chosen People worshipped the Golden Calf, God decided that He would destroy them all, and raise up some other nation, but Moses begged and pleaded on their behalf, "and the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
Now consider this for a moment. God knows all things, past and present, including His own future decisions. Therefore, did He really intend to destroy the Israelites? Or did He just bear false witness?
There is also Jonah 3:10 ". . . and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
If He "did it not", then He knew from the beginning that He would not do it, and if He told someone that He was going to do it, then He was lying.
Omnibenevolence:
Omnibenevolent means that God only does things that are good. Period.
Is everything in this world good?
He Himself will let you know that He is not omnibenevolent.
Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."
Jeremiah 18:11 "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you."
I Kings 22:23 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."
Why would He do these things if He only does that which is good? The bible is filled with examples of god doing evil deeds.
If God is omniscient, He knows that in a week a tornado is going to rip through Kansas and kill a hundred people, wipe out twenty-thousand homes, and destroy three churches.
He is omnipotent, and is therefore able to prevent it.
If He was omnibenevolent, He would. Why doesn't He?
Many Christians will claim that the destruction, death and misery is God's Will.
Is then His Will omnibenevolent? Apparently not.
They say that it must work out to some good end that we cannot understand... it works into his Divine Plan. And yet, these same Christians are the first ones to pray to God for him NOT TO INSTITUTE His Divine Plan!
They are the ones to pray that the tornado ceases, or turns a mile to the west, or skips over their house. They should not presume to know better than their god, and to try to alter His plan. And then if their house was not destroyed, they get down on their knees amid all the destruction and death and thank their god.
What an obscene gesture.
There are logical reasons why omnipotence is impossible.
The old joke spoken by atheist comedian George Carlin: “Could God make a rock so big that He Himself could not move it?” is a real illustration of how omnipotence is impossible.
Can God make something so complex that he himself cannot understand it?
Can God make something greater than himself?
If he can't, he is not all-powerful.
Can omnipotence exist with omniscience? No.
If God cannot change his mind, then he is not all powerful.
If he does change his mind, then he did not know the future. Saying that there is an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent and omnipresent god is like saying there are such things as square circles -- such a thing cannot and does not exist: it is a contradiction.
This is solid logical evidence that shows absolutely that such a being proposed as the Judeo-Christian God (omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent) is utterly impossible.
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| | 8/16/2008 3:04:58 PM | Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent | | 
jewelz5
Monteagle, TN
62, joined Feb. 2007
| Hey good job laying all that omni-stuff out
'God' or 'He' is not a gender specific fellow.  'He' is multi-sexual in 'His' nature. In other words, 'He' swings a multitude of ways.  'He' is not bi and 'He' is not a guy.    Geezus H. Khrist
To try to describe what 'He' is, would be to limit 'His' very nature. Highly evolved benevolent alien beings who are extremely intelligent with way more mind power than any earthlings, don't even know who the hell 'He' is.  You sheeple are purposefully made to think that the grade you reach in life, is the last. That would be about kindergarden level. Let's face it, you are not that bright. who do you think you are kidding 
| | 8/16/2008 7:24:11 PM | Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent | | no_one_special
Rural Retreat, VA
64, joined Aug. 2008
| It would be a good idea if you would ask God these questions when you stand before Him. Because you're going to just like the rest of us. Might want to ask the Lord about getting saved and stop asking vain questions that you know no one is going to answer. Talk to God, ask Him. I dare you.
Char
| | 8/16/2008 8:59:12 PM | Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent | | raventalon
Belleville, IL
56, joined Jun. 2008
| If you talk to God, you're religious.
If God talks back, you're nuts!
| | 8/17/2008 10:52:51 AM | Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent | | denguefever
Lancashire
United Kingdom
50, joined Dec. 2007
| If you talk to God, you're religious.
If God talks back, you're nuts!
Fantastic quote ... can I use it? Can I? Can I? ... lol
| | 8/17/2008 12:01:13 PM | Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent | | skunkbreath
Saint James, MO
97, joined Oct. 2007
| You forgot "omnischizoid".
| | 8/17/2008 1:03:12 PM | Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent | | seemonkey
Big Pine, CA
54, joined Aug. 2008
| disect freewill and mix it with all knowing...
there is numerous options you can choose daily.
God knows all of the possible choices you can make...
If you make a choice that conflicts with His original hope...
then He switches to plan B.
He did foreknow that you could pick a lessor option and has prepared for that event too.
that is what appears to you as Him changing His mind.
when Jesus uncovered the power and claimed it... that was a option God hoped Jesus would not embrace.
He intended another to uncover it.. but doesn't play favorites or have prejudice..
this event too was foreknown as possible and released the prepared bandaid the New Testament.
this confuses many Jews because like you point out it appears God changed His mind.
In reality He is just taken a longer more scenic route to the same destination.
I could explain all your questions in a similar fashion... but I would benefit in no way... you can remain dumbfounded or research/meditate the rest of your over simplified illogical logic.
[Edited 8/17/2008 1:06:36 PM ]
| | 8/17/2008 1:08:15 PM | Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent | | raventalon
Belleville, IL
56, joined Jun. 2008
| If you talk to God, you're religious.
If God talks back, you're nuts! Fantastic quote ... can I use it? Can I? Can I? ... lol
LOL...sure.
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Forums: Religion: Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient & omnibenevolent |
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