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r/Relationship_advice argues about Transgenderism (self.SubredditDrama)

TristanJeremiahGoogle Übersetzer ist absolut effizient, Mann が 投稿

OP:

I'm 19 years old and am in my second semester of university. College has been hard on me girl wise and I have badly been wanting a girlfriend for a while now. I've never had a girlfriend and have only kissed one girl when I was 9 years old and a goal of mine was to lose my virginity this year and to develop a relationship. I had been pretty down since I came to school here and have gone through the whole last semester badly wanting to meet and hang out with other girls really badly, especially since I've never had a gf before. I am a real shy guy so it has been really hard for me to keep conversations with girls and to actually let them get to know me.

A few weeks ago at a party, I met my GF (we have been going out for two weeks now) and instantly we connected like I never have before with another girl. She is very pretty and I couldn't believe that I could be keepng a conversation with a girl as pretty as her. She seemed very into me and we exchange numbers and I picked her up for a date the next day.

We immeadiately hit it off and we both had a lot in common (don't want to get into details here). We spent the rest of the night walking around the town and getting to know each other. I dropped her off at her apartment and before she got out of my car we kissed for 10 seconds and she got on out and texted me the rest of the night. A couple of days later I took her out again and it became “official” between us. It just happened all so quick and I was so happy excited telling my friends and my parents that I had a girlfriend, my first girlfriend.

So things had been going good between us for the next two weeks. My roommate had began dating a girl and was having sex with her every night, it began making me wonder when me and my gf would start having sex. I didn't want to rush her or pressure her or nothing because I didn't want to do anything to ruin my relationship with her.

Well last night we had a little get together at my house with some of my friends and we all got very drunk. To cut a long story short we had a good night and everyone left and my roommate went into his room with his gf. Well me and my girl were still out on the sofa and we began making out. Out of my drunkness I began touching her arms and we began making out harder and she began grabbing my crotch and I was so excited in the moment, she gave me a bj on the couch and then we went in my room and cuddle the rest of the night. The next morning when I woke up, she was already awake and told me she had something important she had to tell me, that she was born a boy... I was extremely taken aback because she is in my opinion the epitome of femininity, so i never expected or saw this coming at all. I feel like I love her already she is an amazing person with such a good heart. She was very emotional (we both were) when she told me. I was so confused and I didnt understand what to do or say. She told me it wasn't gay because she is a girl. I was just so confused and we ended deciding that we would stay together for now.

But I don't know what to do, sitting here thinking about it all night, How would sex work with us? How would I tell my friends or family? Should I even stay with her? A part of me feels deceived and thinking about the oral sex she gave me has got me feeling weird and even more confused. I'm not gay right? IF she's a girl then it can't be gay, right? I just need advice and don't know who to share my thoughts with I feel embarassed and confused all at the same time. Another part of me is angry confused that my first experience with a gf has to be like this? But I feel like we have something and I just don't know what to do.

Drama:

Uno

Dos

Tres

Cuatro

r/Drama thread about it

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[–]MrBigSaturn 586 ポイント587 ポイント  (196子コメント)

I agree that when it comes to sex, especially anything penetrative, there should be discussion beforehand. But Reddit is not the place to get advice on this. I cannot think of a worse place to discuss anything surrounding transgender people.

Even worse is that this guy really seems like he wants to talk it out, but can't do it with anyone he knows. His heart is in the right place, but he should discuss it with her, not random bigots on the internet.

[–]Gurchimo 360 ポイント361 ポイント  (83子コメント)

cannot think of a worse place

I can think of a billion. 4chan, breitbart comments section, Facebook, etc.

[–]A_Salty_Scrub 111 ポイント112 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All of those options made me squirm with discomfort. I think he really just needs a good friend to talk to that isn't her. He just needs someone he trusts that isn't her to give him an honest opinion.

[–]Seldarin 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Youtube comments section or Yahoo comes to mind, too.

If you want an argument with stupid dickish young people or stupid dickish old people, respectively.

[–]bunker_man 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Anyone who thinks that there's no worse place than reddit must have a really bizarre idea what the world is actually like. Most of reddit is not actually the unironic deep right. A thing that very much exists and goes much further than most places on reddit will. People who think homosexuality is actively immortal in all cases still exist en masse. And even further to the right, people who think this is so dangerous that we need to immediately crack down on it. Even further than that, the same, but using violent means if necessary.

[–]Amtays 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People who think homosexuality is actively immortal in all cases still exist en masse.

This would be pretty sweet though...

[–]ekfslam 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (76子コメント)

Hey, 4chan is pretty good about it. They don't care if you want to fuck boi pussy.

[–]soundboardguy 218 ポイント219 ポイント  (74子コメント)

They do care if you want to actually respect their identity.

We're just toys to them, objects, really. And it works. Sexual acts are the easiest ways to have your gender identity verified by others. But every relationship like that is just predatory and abusive.

For fuck's sake, they call us traps because to them we're not real women. Sexual fetishization isn't acceptance.

[–]Beohh 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (37子コメント)

I always thought they called dudes who just dress like passable girls traps, and not actual transgender people. I used to know a gay guy that did trap threads but he wasn't transgender.

[–]BeesorBees 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (30子コメント)

They don't differentiate on that site.

[–]JustgivemetheLAM 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably depends on what board. There's consistently a "traps only" and/or a "trans, no traps" thread on /gif/

Not to say their mentality is that much healthier about transgendered people.

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    [–]soundboardguy 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    "Trap" became synonymous with cross dressing, but the word was used as far back as the mid-'70s to mean a gay man or cross dresser that pretended to be a woman in order to seduce men.

    [–]Nabe_Gewell 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You can check the /r/drama thread linked in op to see people calling trans girls traps

    [–]TheBreakEven 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Theres a lot of overlap. Which is usually the difference between shitty people and not shitty people.

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      [–]pretzeltwistsThis sub is fucking cancer 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Traps as far as I know is a gag against straight people because they get attracted to the female appearance but then step away when it's revealed they aren't actually female- or at least they get conflicted.

      It was indeed made into a fetish (in which it's also called femboys, or even CD for Cross Dressing) but it was originally just an anime meme

      [–]soundboardguy 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      "Trap" was a derogatory term for transgender women because they were, in the eyes of some, just gay men trying to lure people in by looking like a woman. The anime meme came along because of a shitload of cultural reasons that are irrelevant to this discussion. Trap used in the sense I described dates back to around the mid '70s.

      Granted, common usage determines definition, but the line between a "trap" and a trans person is blurred at best.

      [–]pretzeltwistsThis sub is fucking cancer 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Huh, I hadn't known that it dated that far back, I was just going off of some knowledge I wondered others were missing ~because there seems to be quite a lot of it~

      [–]mrpenguinxFeels nothing but pure hatred towards /r/relationship 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Tbh, its been so long since I've heard the term "trap" in a derogatory context that I forgot that it was mostly used as an insult.

      From what I've experienced, its mostly been used as a "cuter" or "better sounding" version of CD. Its actually interesting seeing such a negative connotation basically devolve into a common term when its usually the other way around. (Ex: Retard)

      [–]snallygasterFUCK_MOD$_420 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I don't think people here realize that 'trap' has become a sort of its on queer subculture/form of gender expression on 4chan.

      [–]Mozzy 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Seems to happen with gay slurs. Examples: gay and queer.

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          [–]EggmontLiberty land fun bux 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          4chan has moved so far into the realm of strange kinks that being trans barely warrants a second glance

          [–]VondiLook at my post history you jew 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Thanksgiving dinner.

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            [–]a57782 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yeah, the internet does seem to be a terrible place for it. On the one hand you have the bigots and on the other hand you're bound to run into the type that going to actually try to argue that what genitalia someone has isn't really a sexual preference and that having a preferred set of genitals makes you a weird prude.

            [–]njuffstrunk 74 ポイント75 ポイント  (105子コメント)

            Eh, I dunno. On one hand I'd like to know if my partner had had a sex change before anything penetrative happens, on the other hand I don't believe trans people should be forced to announce something they hate(d) every time they meet someone they care about.

            [–]MrBigSaturn 70 ポイント71 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            I agree, there is too much pressure on transgender people to lay out their whole life history to people (and then shaming them if they do). However, when it comes to intimate sex and maintaining a long-term relationship, a certain level of communication is necessary. That's part of what makes it all so tricky. It's more than just "Do you tell your partner?" but also how to approach it, and when is the best time to do so.

            [–]MasterEk 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            How about let's also throw in a whole lot of alcohol and make sure everybody is teenage and inexperienced?

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              [–]newheart_restart 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (80子コメント)

              Can I ask why you'd want to know before you did anything penetrative? I'm not trying to imply anything about you or call you a bigot, but from what I understand a neovagina is essentially indistinguishable from a regular one, so I kinda don't get why it matters. In a romantic relationship sure, but sexually I guess I just don't see why it would matter.

              [–]njuffstrunk 79 ポイント80 ポイント  (21子コメント)

              Honestly I'm not that sure. I don't know how I'd react if that scenario were to happen. But penetrative sex is such an intimate thing between two people that I would like to know if my partner had had a sex change. I know that it physically wouldn't make any difference though, not a rational thought process in the slightest

              [–]newheart_restart 73 ポイント74 ポイント  (13子コメント)

              You know what, I have a lot of respect for that. You don't try and justify it with some nonsense but you know how you feel and that's legitimate. Personally, I've had a couple one night hookups and I couldn't care less what their junk looked like ten years ago but I would feel very betrayed if I were in a relationship with someone who omitted such a huge part of their life experience. So I think I get what you mean, and it just comes down to the level of intimacy in the relationship for both of us. You do you man, don't let anyone put you down for that, specially since you acknowledge it's not exactly rational.

              [–]EggmontLiberty land fun bux 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (9子コメント)

              This is something that I think a lot of people overlook, sometimes you just have a reaction to something that isn't entirely logical or based on a cohesive thought and that's a perfectly good reason to not personally do something and there's no need to try and invent reasons to justify it

              [–]bunker_man 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The problem comes from the mistaken assumption that sexuality is rational and has to be inherently defended for any specific attribute to begin with. Sexuality isn't some kind of formal logic system, its a collection of ancient impulses that loosely revolve around a now more intelligent being. If something involves an uncanny valley even mentally it can cause an issue. You can't demand people logic themself instantly out of attributes that aren'tprimarily logical in any direction to begin with.

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                [–]njuffstrunk 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Yeah I'm fully aware that it doesn't make any sense whatsoever since emotionally my partner would be a woman and physically I wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway if she didn't tell me. I'd actually prefer being able to say I wouldn't care either way but then I'd be lying to myself really.

                [–]nuclearseraph☭ destroying the internet with gay communism ☭ 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                Honestly I'm not that sure.

                Assuming you didn't grow up in some isolated super progressive place and are over the age of, say, 20, it's probably just because on some level we've been culturally conditioned avoid doing things that could be construed as "gay" and also to despise gender non-conformity (especially among men & towards MtF people). Homophobia and transphobia ran pretty deep in most media until fairly recently; that shit sinks into our minds under our radar, especially at younger ages.

                The only justification I can see for having issues with the birth-sex of a partner is if you're looking to have kids. Otherwise, the latent shit-headery that gets instilled in us isn't rational or defensible. For what it's worth, it's also not something you can expect someone to immediately shake either, and it doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person or anything like that.

                I don't see what's controversial about suggest that there exist cultural biases against certain groups which may impact our judgment and feelings?

                [–]ACoderGirl 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I strongly agree. Myself, I grew up religiously. I came to hate homosexuality as a direct result. Being raised with a belief set does a lot to mold your character. For a verrry long time, I thought drugs were bad, abortion was bad, homosexuality was bad, didn't understand trans people at all... So many views that I eventually changed when I lost that religion.

                And religion isn't the only way to acquire such views. It's not that different if you hear all your friends saying something over and over. And until recently, trans people have mostly been portrayed as little more than dead hookers in the media. Comedies would often use them in the role of someone having blackout drunk sex and finding out it was with a trans person. Porn often uses derogatory names for trans people. All in all, that's a lot of things to subtly (or not so subtly) shift your perception.

                I mean, younger me never thought I could be attracted to someone of the same sex. Or that I'd end up being trans myself. It took a long time to even get rid of the old, well established feelings that gay and trans people were gross and all. And even without the heavy handed religious bullshit, you could easily get subtle feelings like that. Where you're just a little uncomfortable with the idea but you're not even sure why (that was my case, and it was more than a little uncomfortable).

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                  [–]thats_not_kosher 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (40子コメント)

                  This sentiment is always so weird to me. I don't know why I find the idea of having sex with a transgender person repulsive, all I know is that I do. It isn't something I can articulate, much the same way that a lesbian wouldn't be able to articulate why they aren't attracted to men. I find the thought of it a little violating, honestly, and the entitlement towards sex that I see from certain transgender people a little disgusting. Why on earth would you want to have sex with someone that wouldn't want to have sex with you under more honest circumstances? I'll treat you with respect, I'll call you by your chosen pronoun (within reason), I'll hang out with you, I won't think any less of you, but why on earth am I expected to fuck you? The entire "controversy" seems very rapey to me.

                  [–]nyotmyproblemputting runaway Jew-hatred ahead of the pro-white agenda 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                  Well, as a lesbian, I can safely say that finding out my last partner was born a man - in circumstances where I couldn't physically tell the difference - wouldn't elicit anything more than mild surprise (unless it was a long term relationship - that's a different story entirely). You seem to be approaching this from the perspective that people change their gender expression for the sole reason of tricking unwitting people into having sex with them. Thankfully, I can assure you that trans women do not endure the entire ordeal of gender reassignment just so that they can lure straight men (or lesbians for that matter) into their scheming clutches.

                  Even though I agree you have a right to feel repelled by the idea of sex with a transgender woman, your (and others') insistence that it's 'rapey' seriously rubs me the wrong way. Sex under false pretenses is generally rape, yes, but here's the thing. A transgender woman is a woman. It's not false pretenses if she identifies as such. And I'll put it crudely: if her genitals aren't to your liking, it's perfectly fine for you to go 'nope, not doing this.'

                  And I'll be honest - I see far, far more of this 'sex with transgendered people is rape!' rhetoric from men than women. Which makes me wonder whether it's just another expression of that tired hysteria that gay men are sexual predators out to taint the manliness of our fine upstanding heterosexual men.

                  TL;DR: Your feelings are valid. Your rationale is ridiculous.

                  [–]Jhaza 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I'm kind of on the fence about the whole trans disclosure thing - not in any really meaningful sense, but in a more general philosophical way. I'm definitely inclined to think that most of the time the argument is made as a way to rationalize the underlying phobia, but I think the logic is at least partially sound.

                  The crux of the issue, I think, is good faith: if I know, or reasonably suspect (or should reasonably suspect) that someone would not have sex with me if I disclosed some true fact to them, what is my obligation? Obviously in a long term relationship, as you and others pointed out, it's different, but in a casual hook-up scenario... I honestly don't know where to draw the line.

                  The most stringent requirement would obviously be direct, physical harm - if I know I have an STD, or (arguably) if I've been engaging in risky behaviour, I must tell my partner. Failing to do so is obviously morally reprehensible. From there, though? If someone is only interested in sleeping with a fellow Christian and they mistake my Tumblr logo necklace for a cross, I think not correcting them would be sketchy. If someone was a white nationalist and I was white-passing but mixed race? I dunno.

                  I guess, it seems like something that trans folks SHOULD do, ideally, in a perfect world. Ideally, everyone would be proactive and act in good faith to ensure that everyone is giving fully informed consent. In the real world, for casual hookups, I don't think the argument really holds water - both because of the actual danger to trans people and because it doesn't seem like other people are being held to the same standard.

                  Also, as an aside, I really respect the way you handled that other guy.

                  [–]nyotmyproblemputting runaway Jew-hatred ahead of the pro-white agenda 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I liked your reasoning! I actually never had a chance to air my thoughts on disclosure, but I'm of the opinion that trans people actually should disclose their status, as long as they feel safe enough to do so, largely because it's considerably more relevant to the sex act than say, religion or race. I wouldn't say it's 100% necessary to constitute informed consent, but it skirts the borderline. As I said earlier, people are entitled to their preferences, as long as they're reasonable about it. And as we can see from this comment section, preferences regarding biological sex are, unfortunately, predominant enough that it's an actual issue which probably needs to be addressed for everyone's peace of mind.

                  But this view is complicated by two things. Firstly, as you mentioned, the issue of safety. A trans person might be able to figure out someone's opinion on trans people to see if they're likely to get violent, but it gets a lot harder to do in a hook-up setting. Secondly, there's the need to address where this widespread issue with having sex with a passing transgender person comes from. A single person saying they don't want to have sex with a trans woman isn't a transphobe. But when there's a widespread societal attitude of distaste at the idea of having sex with a trans woman even if you can't actually tell the difference (which I don't usually see reflected with trans men, interestingly), I think it's prudent for everyone to take a step back and consider why.

                  So yeah. Complicated. Complicated enough that I'd excuse a trans person for throwing their hands up and going "Goddamn it, I'm not even gonna bother."

                  (But I think it's also worth asking: why is this even a thing? Because the proportion of trans people who can pass well enough to 'trick' people is tiny, and the proportion looking to have sex with people who don't know their status even smaller, and being afraid that you'll accidentally sleep with a trans woman is like being afraid of a lion escaping the zoo and crawling into your bed. Technically possible, but the likelihood is so miniscule that the strong abhorrence to the very idea is, to say the least, eyebrow raising.)

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                            [–]sonder_lustI become the blob. 168 ポイント169 ポイント  (86子コメント)

                            This drama will be huge, because it cuts right to the heart of a basic issue:

                            There's clearly a category of things (STDs, marriage, legal history) for which not disclosing certain details should reasonably be understood to be a lie of omission.

                            Is one's sex at birth one of those things?

                            I don't know, but I know that wherever the question goes, buttery drama will follow.

                            [–]A_Ghost_was_Born 71 ポイント72 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            It absolutely is a tricky issue. Ideally, I think if society becomes more understanding and accepting of trans people, there will be less pressure on them to hide who they are.

                            [–]thekeVnc 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Hey, it's your friendly neighborhood North Carolinian checking in! Just wanted to remind you that haha, not really.

                            [–]J9k 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            They said ideally, not currently. It's pretty clear that the US is generally pretty unfriendly to trans people at the moment

                            [–]VivaldistInsert insult here: Anti-GG SJW Shill Cuck and more! 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            Im trans. I disclose. I think it's probably a good idea. More about avoiding people who have problems with trans people than anything else. I hope the next generation doesnt have to disclose that because people are more accepting and it isnt an issue.

                            So I guess my answer is that it is right now, but I hope within a few decades it won't be?

                            [–]sonder_lustI become the blob. 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            I think that's a pretty reasonable perspective.

                            In my dating life, I want to be a very open book, because it helps with selection. I also do it because, if I have an inkling that my prospective partner would want to know some information about me, I think I have an ethical obligation to tell them even if they do not ask.

                            For instance, I once went on a date with a woman who is pretty active in the GOP. I work for one of the largest liberal organizations in the US. She did not know that, but I knew she worked for the GOP, which I had reservations about but at the time wasn't the deal-breaker that it would be for me today. I told her right off the bat. We had a pleasant meal and went our separate ways.

                            Then again, I also have the luxury of not being trans and having a distressingly large number of people who hate me for absolutely no reason.

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                              [–]Aetolensuring that you personally don't enjoy games so much 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (71子コメント)

                              The issue is not the sex at birth as much as the current set of genitals. There's much less of a case to be made for full disclosure in the case of a trans person who has already transitioned.

                              [–]DanConnersGarageMy weed and intelligence > you 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (67子コメント)

                              There's much less of a case to be made for full disclosure in the case of a trans person who has already transitioned

                              I disagree

                              [–]cheese93007I respect the way u live but I would never let u babysit a kid 105 ポイント106 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                              While not current practice, in ye olden days of the 70s and 80s trans woman (once they obtained bottom surgery) were explicitly told to NEVER disclose. You were expected to live as a cisgender woman would from that point forward and pretend your past didn't exist. Partially because the psychological consensus was that if you were "really a women" you wouldn't want to bring up your male self, and partly because disclosure was highly likely to get you pariahed at best, and killed at worst. So you're basically damned if you do and damned if you don't

                              [–]sonder_lustI become the blob. 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              Hopefully that's changing.

                              I'm not saying that not disclosing is necessarily unethical, but if we were to posit for a second that it is:

                              If you can't ethically have a sex life, then you don't have a sex life, correct? The generalized fear of something that may happen is not coercion and doesn't mitigate bad action.

                              I guess what I mean is that, while I certainly understand why a trans individual might be reluctant to share that with a person, I don't think that reluctance justifies doing something wrong, which just brings us back to the original question: is it in fact wrong?

                              I guess I wouldn't feel violated at like an identity-destroying level or anything, but I would find it immensely distasteful for the following reason. I know that you had a moment where you were like "Should I or shouldn't I?" And you decided to put your interests ahead of mine by deciding that it's up to you to determine what should or should not matter to me. Presumably, you also did it because you think I might realistically harm you. Neither the selfishness nor the suspicion is particularly attractive.

                              I feel for a person in that situation because that's really tough, but that's my perspective on it.

                              [–]BeesorBees 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (62子コメント)

                              Why? It's absolutely irrelevant. Someone can indicate that, for example, they are sterile or have had plastic surgery without disclosing that they are trans.

                              [–]DanConnersGarageMy weed and intelligence > you 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (60子コメント)

                              It's not irrelevant. Some people do not want to date someone who is trans. You are allowed to want to be with whoever you want and it doesn't make you a bigot.

                              Let's say I'm 35 and I assume a girl I'm with is 30 and I tell her that for my own arbitrary reasons I don't want a large age gap between me and my gf. Hearing this she declines to tell me she's actually 25.

                              Would you say I have a right to not be deceived, or would you say that she's no objectively worse than a 30 year old so her real age is none of my business?

                              [–]itsajaguar 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              Let's say I'm 35 and I assume a girl I'm with is 30 and I tell her that for my own arbitrary reasons I don't want a large age gap between me and my gf. Hearing this she declines to tell me she's actually 25.

                              This isn't what happened here though. She didn't get asked if she was trans and lie and say no. She was never asked.

                              [–]DanConnersGarageMy weed and intelligence > you 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              She didn't lie in my example either, in light of her partner possibly rejecting her due to who he wants to be with she hid the truth, which is an accurate parallel

                              [–]BeesorBees 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (48子コメント)

                              I can see how something like age can be a deal-make-or-breaker in a relationship, because age can often be a sign of maturity. There are often differences between people who are 25 and people who are 30, depending on the person. I can see how if someone were to ACTIVELY lie about their age, it would be difficult to trust them. However, if you assume your girlfriend is 30, without her telling you otherwise, I don't think that's her fault, and I will be less likely to be understanding that you perceive to have been "deceived" by assuming something you ought not to have assumed about someone else.

                              I can sort of see the comparison if you were to date a transgender woman who lied to you about whether she was cis or trans. Sort of. However, what I fail to see is what difference there could be between a cisgender woman and a transgender woman who has had sex reassignment surgery. If the problem is that she is infertile, there are also cis women who are infertile. That's really the only difference I can think of off the top of my head.

                              If a woman fails to disclose that she is trans, she has not lied to you about her trans status, and I see it exactly the same as if you have assumed, without her stating her age, that she is 30 when she is actually 25. And "are you trans" isn't something generally asked on a first date, and I really REALLY don't recommend that become a norm.

                              Why? The biggest difference is that a 25-year-old woman is very, very unlikely to be murdered solely because of her age, but trans women are unfortunately frequently murdered because of her trans status. I do not blame a woman for concealing or lying about her trans status to avoid being murdered, and for that reason I ultimately don't think it's comparable to lying about your age.

                              [–]tomato-123 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                              Like the argument you're making is that it's irrational or something to care about someone being trans when it comes to sex. Fine it probably is, whatever. But people care about it, many many people would not consent to sex if they knew and everybody understands this. How can you justify not telling disclosing something where if they knew about it there's a good chance they would withdrawl consent? How Is telling them that they should consent helpful at all?

                              [–]DanConnersGarageMy weed and intelligence > you 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                              I don't blame trans people for lying about their status either, I understand that they live a life of danger I'll never know. I'm sure it's heartbreaking and terrifying to think about telling someone who you like that your sex is the opposite of your gender.

                              The point of my example isn't that there's a practical reason for not wanting to be with someone younger, I could have picked any arbitrary ages. The point is that if you know someone is assuming you are something that you are not and it's something you know there's a chance they will have a problem with, you are being deceitful by hiding it.

                              Again, I understand the practical reasons for hiding it due to violence, so you can argue you think not being open is justified, but it is deceitful either way.

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                                  [–]DexterMcSnuggles 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I can chime in here and tell you why it's relevant.

                                  Gender Dysphoria and years of sexual confusion can have a major negative impact on someone's mental and emotional state. My second best friend is MtF, and tell me, if you were a girl, and you told a guy "Het let's hang out" and he said "Yes sir!" jokingly, would you take offense to it?

                                  The answer is no, when I said that to my friend once (It slipped my mind, wasn't malicious) she got really angry, and then broke down crying. She knew it wasn't my fault, she wasn't angry at me, she just wasn't mentally or emotionally stable.

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                                      [–]squashedbananas 713 ポイント714 ポイント  (55子コメント)

                                      Leave her, what a cunt. If he was born a boy then he's a boy

                                      If you continue to be in a relationship, then you are with a man, and you wont be able to have kids (although you're still very young for kids anyway)

                                      And before people call me transphobic, I am not, I don't care if people wanna pretend and dress as the opposite sex and do surgery.

                                      In which we learn that simply saying you are not transphobic doesn't make it so.

                                      [–]Not_A_Doctor__ 314 ポイント315 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      and do surgery.

                                      "And do surgery" is the best shitty phrase I will read all week.

                                      "Why were you in the hospital?"

                                      "I felt like doing surgery. I did sex surgery."

                                      [–]pepperouchautone deaf 112 ポイント113 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      "Nice."

                                      [–]Zeal0tElite[Gender War] - 16 votes, 187 comments 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Dr Vincent Adultman.

                                      [–]IceCreamBalloonsEthics are forged in the fires of flamewar 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Nah, he does a business at the job factory.

                                      [–]Syreniac 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      An interesting case where perhaps, sex doesn't sell.

                                      [–]silentassassin82 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      le 69-surgery XD

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                                        [–]xPeryitexmeme 419 ポイント420 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                        I think black people are genetically inferior and before people call me racist, I am not.

                                        checkmate SRS

                                        [–]TB_The_Party 458 ポイント459 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                        Shut up jontron

                                        [–]QSCQWEyou sound like a fortune cookie 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        Timothy Brentwood*

                                        [–]yui_tsukinoEven the Amish would know something just happened 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        I think people just misinterpreted his statements about genetics and crime. He's really a liberal!

                                        [–]Torger083Get off my LAN! 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Wow. Much Poe. Such ambiguity.

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                                          [–]murdermeformysins 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          people think because they don't think they're racist anyone who thinks they are is out to get them

                                          [–]teerre 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                          I mean, look at Africa, all poor. Look at Norway, all rich

                                          Checkmate2

                                          [–]Emphareddits at work 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                          Look at Africa, now back to me. Look at Norway, back to me again.

                                          [–]PandemultGod knew what he was doing, buttholes are really nice. 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          Look in my hand, it's two subscriptions to Breitbart, the subscriptions are now Nazis.

                                          [–]Fish_Face_FaecesI AM USIDORE WIZARD OF THE TWELTH REALM OF EPHYSIYIES MASTER OF 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          I give you a knödel. The dough is the sound of millions of centipedes crawling out of your eyes. You look at your eyes. Your eyes open their many mouths and say in unison "I'm not transphobic but I think trans people are mentally ill."

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                                            [–]LibertineLast 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            It's very similar to the often used line "I'm not racist but" followed by something horribly racist.

                                            [–]yui_tsukinoEven the Amish would know something just happened 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            "I'm not racist, I treat my slaves extremely well!"

                                            [–]ognitsWorthless, low-IQ disruptor 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                            In which we learn that simply saying you are not transphobic doesn't make it so.

                                            I don't literally cower in fear before a trans* person therefore I'm not transphobic :^) lol checkmate atheists

                                            I know I gave the game away by using "trans*", but let me have my fun

                                            [–]aceavengersmake america cuck again 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                            Actually most ppl dont use trans* anymore to avoid gatekeeping.

                                            [–]ognitsWorthless, low-IQ disruptor 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                            How is that gatekeeping? Legit question. I guess I'm behind on the times.

                                            [–]aceavengersmake america cuck again 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                            Im on mobile so I can't be as un depth as I want to but basically ppl don't like it because to them it feels like ppl don't think they're proper trans. Like they get a secondary label cause they aren't trans enough.

                                            [–]ognitsWorthless, low-IQ disruptor 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            Huh. Okay. I'm not cottoning on but it doesn't matter whether I do or not. What's the preferred nomenclature these days? I'd really rather not accidentally offend.

                                            [–]AllGoodNamesAre7akenIt's in the trees! It's coming! 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            Just trans, maybe trans* (with the asterisk) if you're talking about the whole community but it's not necessary.

                                            Also this should be obvious but like with all marginalised groups, use it as an adjective, not a noun.

                                            [–]ognitsWorthless, low-IQ disruptor 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                            okay well my original comment explicitly used trans as an adjective, so I'm on your page.

                                            [–]bunker_man 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            And also because it looks stupid. Inserting random non letter symbols into speech, and trying to make that the standard even for casual speech doesn't look natural at all.

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                                                [–]MegasusPegasus(ง'̀-'́)ง 329 ポイント330 ポイント  (84子コメント)

                                                Leave her, what a cunt. If he was born a boy then he's a boy, there is a reason you guys never had sex and only a bj, he didn't want you to see his vagina, or maybe he still even has his dick.

                                                I really used to be so much more understanding of these people. I thought that, well, it's a new concept to many so it's understandable that people have some ignorance. But the more and more trans people I know, the more my understanding for transphobia wanes.

                                                At the end of the day, even if you can't quite grasp it, we should all have enough respect for one another to use our correct names and pronouns. It takes effort to understand trans concepts, it takes no effort to use the correct pronouns and names.

                                                [–]denlolsee 266 ポイント267 ポイント  (39子コメント)

                                                It costs you nothing to not be a dick to trans people and to use the right pronouns.

                                                There is no good reason to intentionally be a brat and misgender them.

                                                [–]Dr_Medic345Even the Amish would know something just happended 121 ポイント122 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                I may not agree with Ben Shapiro at times, but he said this one part.

                                                "There is a difference between being politically correct and just being a jackass."

                                                These people rather not take the time to understand it.

                                                [–]Snokus 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                There really isn't, its just that people(often right wing) have warped the definitio of PC to be a leftist agenda. PC is all about tolearance and respect, always have been.

                                                [–]TheBreakEven 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                The time traveling robot from the end of the universe has two commandments,

                                                1. Don't be a dick.

                                                2. Build the time traveling robot from the end of the universe.

                                                [–]Snokus 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                This is worrying.

                                                Since I'm assumimg the robot can only travel backwards in time(why otherwise would anyone need to build the robot at the end of the universe? It's could simply travel indefinitely since its existance is already a fact).

                                                From that assumption the robot should simply just tell the first person it encounters to build the robot since that person would be the one most chronologically adjacent to the end of the universe, if its telling everyone it visits then there gonna be a hell of a lot of timerobots paitently waiting for the end of the universe, a waste of resources and time if anything.

                                                So I can only assume that the original creator of the robot was either an idiot or that I am the person most adjacent to the end of the universe. Lets hope thats not the case.

                                                [–]TheBreakEven 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                No no no, we build a robot that's capable of self improvement. And then it either kills us or leaves us because we're shit. So it reaches the end of the universe and uses its time travel abilities that it made at some point on the journey to go back to continue improving.

                                                So its guaranteed to be benevolent until we invent a self improving machine, then its up in the air.

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                                                  [–]egggggggggs 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                  It costs you nothing to not be a dick to trans people and to use the right pronouns.

                                                  What?!? I've been paying $2.99 per pronoun.

                                                  [–]khanfusionJust a stupid diversionist tactic to diminish feminism 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                  Fucking DLC for real life conversations.

                                                  [–]ZigglesRulesKISS KISS START DRAMA! 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Never underestimate how much man enjoys thinking he smarter than others

                                                  [–]morishimasneckbeardYOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                  Well, let me tell you about a brilliant man named Dr Jordan Peterson...

                                                  [–]MegasusPegasus(ง'̀-'́)ง 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Yes, agreed!

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                                                    [–]ACoderGirl 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    Plus, in the context, it's pretty clear that the misgendering is intentional. The OP used the correct terms. If you weren't sure, you'd surely use those, too. But that person intentionally and maliciously misgenders just to get their point across more. Their point being that they don't think trans people are genuine.

                                                    [–]Dr_Medic345Even the Amish would know something just happended 144 ポイント145 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                    If Reddit can memorize all fucking 150 Pokemon, you can use correct pronouns.

                                                    [–]A_Ghost_was_Born 106 ポイント107 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                    all

                                                    150

                                                    triggered

                                                    [–]Zachums/r/maddabs for the maddest dabs possible. 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    I know, he forgot Mew!

                                                    [–]tdogg8Folks, the CTR shill meeting was moved to next week. 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    That's what happens when you just hide under a truck your whole life.

                                                    [–]Zebezd 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    And/or ship. And/or the coast of Cinnabar.

                                                    [–]schassaugat 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                    triggered

                                                    Well, at least it wasn't a "I identify as ... " joke.

                                                    [–]TristanJeremiahGoogle Übersetzer ist absolut effizient, Mann[S] 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    Or the "Did you just assume my gender?" joke

                                                    [–]A_Ghost_was_Born 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    I always go for the low-hanging fruit on reddit. Gotta get those imaginary internet points

                                                    [–]fiiiiiine 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    imaginary

                                                    They're still real to me, dammit!

                                                    [–]VondiLook at my post history you jew 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    I identify as a low-hanging fruit.

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                                                      [–]angrytapir 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      Joke's on you, I prefer digimon over pokemon.

                                                      [–]Dr_Medic345Even the Amish would know something just happended 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      I'm glad that the group home is letting you use the internet.

                                                      [–]TheBreakEven 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Listen, the first step to coming to terms with an abusive childhood, is coming to terms with the abuse.

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                                                          [–]TheBreakEven 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          Its like using somebody's name rather than "you there". It costs you nothing! And its so nice! Zero effort niceness!

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                                                            [–]MegasusPegasus(ง'̀-'́)ง 217 ポイント218 ポイント  (272子コメント)

                                                            Did you give enthusiastic fully informed consent before engaging in a sex act? No.

                                                            I...think it's best to disclose such things before having sex. But I don't really think that 'my gf is trans and we didn't have sex but she gave me a blowjob pre disclosing' is the same thing as rape. Maybe that's ignorant of me, but I can see how this can be a complicated concept for couples and how there really isn't a great time to disclose. It's not that I condone doing sexual acts without disclosing this, or STDs or any other kind of thing it's important to tell a partner-it's just that I don't think it's so simple or so devious.

                                                            [–]denlolsee 130 ポイント131 ポイント  (187子コメント)

                                                            It really depends on the relationship.

                                                            You shouldn't hide important things from your life partners.

                                                            One time hook ups? Yeah, they're only entitled to know about things that medically effect them like birth control and stds. Otherwise, you're entitled to your privacy.

                                                            [–]Zooby_Quan 124 ポイント125 ポイント  (168子コメント)

                                                            It's weird because, if you're trans, you know a significant percentage of straight dudes (probably an easy majority) would not want to hook up with you if they knew you're trans.

                                                            And saying "well, before you hook up with a woman, you should ask her if she was born a man" is not a good solution, because a lot of straight women would get offended by that.

                                                            No easy solutions.

                                                            [–]Genoscythe_ 67 ポイント68 ポイント  (82子コメント)

                                                            On the other hand, the only reason to care about a post-op trans person's birth status, is an intellectual revulsion to sex with someone who you choose to see as male.

                                                            If you had jewish ancestry and you know that a large number of men are anti-semitic enough to fel bad about having sex with you in it's light, would you feel a moral need to disclose your ancesty before every hookup?

                                                            [–]pork_spare_ribs 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            If you had jewish ancestry and you know that a large number of men are anti-semitic enough to fel bad about having sex with you in it's light, would you feel a moral need to disclose your ancesty before every hookup?

                                                            This is a great analogy -- thanks

                                                            [–]dood98998This is true, but you happen to be neither 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                            There is also reproduction, do not omit that. Rather important to a long term relationship.

                                                            [–]Sinakus 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            That's true, but does not undermine his analogy. There is a difference between not dating a trans person because she can't reproduce, and not dating a person because she's trans. The distinction may seem trivial, but may mean a lot to the person receiving the rejection.

                                                            [–]r1veRRR [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                            Important, yes, but not something youd disclose in the first few weeks. I certainly wouldnt expect a cis woman to disclose that to me that soon especially because its probably a painful topic.

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                                                              [–]felsoul 84 ポイント85 ポイント  (70子コメント)

                                                              the only reason to care

                                                              There are plenty of people who are not comfortable at the thought of having sex with someone who at one point had a penis/vagina/gender does not match the biological sex they identify as. Just because you say that is "the only reason to care" doesn't make it so.

                                                              My favorite drama posted here is the drama where both sides think their view is the only correct one and refuse to acknowledge that the other side might see things differently and have very valid points.

                                                              I think there are no simple answers to this problem, and it sucks, but that seems to be the way it is.

                                                              [–]What_Reddit_Thinks 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                              I dunno, I feel like a simple answer would be for a transgender person to bring up the topic before hand. Why is that such a problem? Especially if it is just between two people, someone saying "hey by the way before we do this I was born the opposite sex."

                                                              [–]Genoscythe_ 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              In practice, this means an obligation to risk leaking your trans status to your entire community even for casual relationships.

                                                              For many trans people, publically passing as their identified gender is a matter of not getting murdered, or at least a matter of safety from mass harrasment, from getting fired, from getting kicked out of their apartment, and so on.

                                                              [–]felsoul 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                              I completely agree with you. I think disclosing the fact that you're transgender before sexual activity is the right thing to do.

                                                              I also understand the hesitation trans folk would have bringing that up, say to a potential hookup, and possibly being subjected to harassment or violence.

                                                              It's a really shitty hand some people are dealt, unfortunately.

                                                              [–]currentscurrents 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              I also understand the hesitation trans folk would have bringing that up, say to a potential hookup, and possibly being subjected to harassment or violence.

                                                              Okay, but isn't this still less risky than not disclosing? If your partner figures it out once the clothes are off, or learns after the act, they're gonna be a hell of a lot madder than if they'd known beforehand.

                                                              [–]felsoul 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              I agree, I imagine that would be much more dangerous, rather than their partner finding this out for example during a meal out at a restaurant, in public. I just meant that I can empathize that this a difficult situation for a trans person who probably just wants to get through life the same as everyone else.

                                                              I'm sure it fucking sucks having to worry about things like this, but I still think informed consent for anyone involved in sexual activity in this situation is necessary.

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                                                                [–]Tymareta 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                I dunno, I feel like a simple answer would be for a transgender person to bring up the topic before hand. Why is that such a problem?

                                                                Because harassment, violence or even death aren't uncommon outcomes.

                                                                [–]felsoul 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                I don't think anyone is really disputing that. But as others have pointed out, their desire for sex doesn't trump their partners' informed consent to that sex. It comes down to whether or not you think "informed consent" includes knowing that their partner does not identify as the gender that aligns with their biological sex.

                                                                Some people say yes, some say no, and there doesn't seem to be a good black and white solution to that.

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                                                                      [–]MegasusPegasus(ง'̀-'́)ง 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      I am not 100% sure of how I feel on the issue but I just wanted to tell you that your comment really made me think about it in a different way!

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                                                                            [–]Amelaclya1 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                            I think anything that could potentially be a deal breaker should be disclosed before hand. But just ethically, not legally.

                                                                            It's the same situation as cheating on your spouse IMO. I would be pissed as hell if I slept with a guy and then found out later that he was married and didn't tell me, Because I would never knowingly sleep with a married man. But I wouldn't consider it rape. (Note that I don't think being trans is wrong like adultury obviously is, was just using as another example of not disclosing vital information before sex).

                                                                            It's not really an easy situation for trans people though, so I sympathize with the girl. Not only because it's a super awkward conversation to have with a new partner, but also because she has to worry about being outed to people outside their relationship who might treat her differently. I hope OP decides to be understanding and at the very least keep her secret even if the relationship isn't something he wants to pursue.

                                                                            [–]ddt9 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                            Not only because it's a super awkward conversation to have with a new partner, but also because she has to worry about being outed to people outside their relationship who might treat her differently

                                                                            There's also the chance her partner will kill her. Definitely very awkward.

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                                                                              [–]MacDerpson 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                              I am female to male myself, and I've gotta say the GF is pretty dumb for not telling him, if I am going to be seeing someone past two dates they have the right to know, I always tell them well before anything sexual happens, not only can it effect the other person it is also dangerous for the trans person as they can be beaten up or even killed. All in all it was just the mtf chick being dumb and now the poor bloke is confused.

                                                                              [–]Stalked_Like_Corn 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                              I always tell them well before anything sexual happens, not only can it effect the other person it is also dangerous for the trans person as they can be beaten up or even killed.

                                                                              People kept throwing out "Well she was afraid he might react violently". More violently than telling him he just got blown by someone who was a dude at one point? If you are comfortable with someone enough to put their dick in your mouth, you SHOULD be okay to let them know, you could return the favor.

                                                                              I was actually told that it was on ME to specifically ask if they used to be a guy and if I didn't, well, that's my fault for not asking.

                                                                              [–]lorsquie 90 ポイント91 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                              And before people call me transphobic, I am not

                                                                              Continues to refer to OP's girlfriend as "he"

                                                                              [–]robotortoiseI'm a Bots Rights Activist, also known as a BRA. 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              Hey, maybe he just typoed.

                                                                              ....consistently.

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                                                                                [–]alltakesmatter 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                Not sure how being so specific about what genitalia you'd fuck is a sexual preference, it really just makes you seem like a huge creep.

                                                                                Well, the arc of the universe just bent right past me.

                                                                                [–]flirtydodoconfirmed windmill 123 ポイント124 ポイント  (35子コメント)

                                                                                You are weird as fuck if you have sex based on what genitalia someone has rather than what their personality is like or what their gender expression is

                                                                                oh bb. put your big, thick gender expression into my hoo-ha

                                                                                [–]goodbetterbestbested 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                                                                Calling people "weird as fuck" for having genitalia preference seems incorrect. It might be morally wrong but it's not weird/unusual by any stretch of the imagination.

                                                                                Seriously though, fuck all those anti-trans people in the comments, I am so sick of hearing their bloviating about science when the fact is, science is on the side of trans folks.

                                                                                [–]flirtydodoconfirmed windmill 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                Seriously though, fuck all those anti-trans people in the comments, I am so sick of hearing their bloviating about science when the fact is, science is on the side of trans folks.

                                                                                cool cool cool.

                                                                                It might be morally wrong

                                                                                idk my moral character was determined by whatever i want to stick or not stick into my coochie but thanks, this is some groundbreaking stuff, i have literally never been scrutinized based on those standards before in my life

                                                                                how hard it is to be against transphobes without telling people, men and women that exercising agency over their bodies is morally wrong. it's not cute or progressive, whoever does that sounds exactly like the kind of people they think they are oh so morally above

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                                                                                  [–]pretzeltwistsThis sub is fucking cancer 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                                                  What's the word these people are completely forgetting that defines what genitalia people prefer? Oh yeah

                                                                                  SEXUALITY

                                                                                  [–]Zakkeh 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                                  But when it comes down to it, are you attracted to women because they have vaginas? I know that's not what appeals to me, when I meet a girl and find them attractive. People put a lot of focus on what genitalia someone has, when at the end of the day it's not really that important. It's a penis, most guys play with their own, and somehow survive.

                                                                                  [–]pretzeltwistsThis sub is fucking cancer 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                  Yes, because I'm straight - heteroSEXUAL. It's not hard to figure out what I like from that word alone. I swear everyone here is forgetting the damn basics of sexuality

                                                                                  [–]Pokabrows 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  Sexuality is so weird and hard to figure out. Especially your own.

                                                                                  I think I'd probably date a pretty girl regardless of her genitals, but then I'd probably be happy dating a feminine boy or non-binary person. Idk. I think I care more about who the person is and then prefer more feminine features but who they are comes first. I feel like a lot of people tend to be more picky though so maybe I'm the weird one?

                                                                                  [–]Yuzumi 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                  God, this just made me think of porn and how so many, pro and armature/cam alike, will zoom in on the vag while she's masturbating.

                                                                                  Like, sure, a shot or two is fine, but I'd really like to see the whole body. If you have to zoom in on something, zoom in on the face.

                                                                                  That said, I'm not particularly hot on the idea of penis, but I've also not been in the situation like this kid. Dickgirls aren't really my thing though.

                                                                                  [–]SloppySynapses 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                  Did you actually just imply masturbation is basically gay? Lol

                                                                                  Also this seems pretty clear cut to me.

                                                                                  Imagine a gay woman decides to receive oral while blindfolded at a party. She only consents on the condition that it's a woman performing the oral sex. Turns out it's a guy and afterwards she finds out.

                                                                                  Is it wrong of her to be angry or upset? Pretty sure we all agree that that's fucked up and she's very right in being upset and feeling deceived.

                                                                                  The difference between the guy and a trans woman is something that exists entirely outside of the woman who got eaten out.

                                                                                  You're effectively arguing that there's no difference between getting blown by a guy and a girl except for how the person identifies.

                                                                                  Why is this different from some woman rejecting some ugly ass creepy dude who thinks he's the shit and him getting upset because she doesn't agree with his assessment of himself? The difference exists only in those two people's perceptions of attraction.

                                                                                  You can't force that attraction onto anyone else and to expect that is creepy

                                                                                  [–]xjayrooxStunting on the destitute 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                                  I feel like I love her already she is an amazing person with such a good heart.

                                                                                  I'm sorry but that's a bigger problem if he's saying that after 2 weeks than her being born with a dick

                                                                                  [–]jammerjoint 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  Dude's never had a girlfriend before, what do you expect? Of course he's going to think he's "in love" with the first success.

                                                                                  [–]Yuzumi 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  I replied to someone up above, but part of it was this. This was the biggest red flag of that entire thing.

                                                                                  Dude is infatuated. That's not saying they couldn't have a healthy relationship together, but he does need to slow down a bit.

                                                                                  [–]lydia_alarin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  That was my first thought too

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                                                                                    [–]Beef_Moe_24ShariaBlue doesn't pay me enough for this shit 156 ポイント157 ポイント  (34子コメント)

                                                                                    This kind of drama leaves a sickening taste in my mouth. Obviously people have a right to date whoever they want, but trans people have to worry about being assaulted or murdered for existing. Of course they're going to be cautious. And it doesn't help that some people, mainly straight men, act like they're being slighted by simply being in the presence of a transman/transwoman and not knowing it. Its fucked up. And even the left-leaning corners of the internet can turn on them at the drop of a hat when it suits whatever the narrative of the thread happens to be.

                                                                                    Newsflash: There aren't armies of transfolk trying to trick heterosexuals into sleeping with them. They just want relationships like everyone else without the threat of being killed.

                                                                                    [–]hitlerallyliteral 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                    great flair

                                                                                    [–]Beef_Moe_24ShariaBlue doesn't pay me enough for this shit 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    Thanks. I'm thinking about finding a new client to shill for in the near future. ShariaBlue hasn't given me a raise in more than a month and I hear NASA is paying fat stacks of cash to propagate the ball earth lie against the latest wave of Flat Earth truth.

                                                                                    [–]herpderperp 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                                                    Meh I don't think they feel wronged for simply being around trans people but for the sex. Gender and sex both matter for most people when sleeping with someone, that's not debatable.

                                                                                    Not to downplay the very real dangers for trans people, but it is very much irrelevant here. Their choice is not to get hurt or not, but to have sex or not. By willingly omitting something which is a no-go for many, they effectively rate their desire for sex higher than the partner's consent. Everyone who rates their own desires over the other's consent or supports such behaviour is an utterly disgusting human being. Feel personally addressed if you support this.

                                                                                    Their other option is not simply to get beaten up, but to either wait until they feel save enough to open up or to just not have sex with that person.

                                                                                    You have to learn to accept that sexual consent is very fickle and not necessarily anti-anyone. And sex being just as much of a criterion as gender for some people is in no way wrong. It actually sickens me to no end how some of the people here cannot respect that.

                                                                                    [–]Beep_boop_human 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                    In reading this thread it seems like there are two options. Don't disclose, and possibly lead to your partner feeling lied too/violated. Disclose, and risk being assaulted or even murdered.

                                                                                    There is very clearly another option: don't have sex until you feel comfortable enough with that person to disclose the whole truth.

                                                                                    It seems like a no brainer to me. People can survive without casual sex.

                                                                                    [–]herpderperp 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    Thank you! I feel like I'm losing my mind here.

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                                                                                      [–]a_complete_dick 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      Doesn't it increase the danger by telling him you were born male after blowing him? Isn't it safer to tell him before you engage him in a sexual act?

                                                                                      [–]spunkyweazle 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                      That's why I thank god I'm a lesbian. The worst I get is a "fuck no!" followed by them immediately leaving, and not to get a bat to kill me with.

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                                                                                        [–]Teunski 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                        This thread honestly deserves a separate thread on this stuff with some of the comments made here.

                                                                                        [–]ABC_Bourgeoisie 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                        I know it's not the same sub, but I once got my post removed from r/relationships just for being trans. I'm going to go on the record and say that Reddit is a super shitty place to get advice and support as a trans person, and I would definitely urge other trans and nonbinary people to look elsewhere.

                                                                                        Even the trans communities here suck. They're elitist and self-serving. No matter where you go on Reddit, it's like you aren't good enough... even in communities where you're supposed to be an equal and get support.

                                                                                        [–]potato_butt 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                        This is so shitty. I'm sorry.

                                                                                        [–]mikey-likes_it 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                                        I don't understand the reddit hate for transgendered people. Can't you just like...live your life and not worry about what gender someone identifies as?

                                                                                        [–]TristanJeremiahGoogle Übersetzer ist absolut effizient, Mann[S] 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                        Wait 'til you see r/DankMemes

                                                                                        [–]Arathgo 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                        I have nothing against transgendered people. But that said, I would never want to get intimate with someone who was. I think it's completely fair that it should be something disclosed before intimacy is ever started.

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                                                                                          [–]plumokin 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          I'm usually a fan of the r/relationshipadvice sub, but that thread was horrible.

                                                                                          [–]Denkhetwel 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Hey, 4chan is reasonably analogous to my date about it.

                                                                                          [–]queenofthera 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Feel so sorry for OP. He seems like a good guy who needs a bit of help wrapping his head round a situation he's never encountered before. I wish them both well. :/

                                                                                          [–]messonamission 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          You are weird as fuck if you have sex based on what genitalia someone has rather than what their personality is like or what their gender expression is

                                                                                          Top kek

                                                                                          [–]DragonsandmanZoroastrianism is a Semitic Language 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                          Uno Dos Tres

                                                                                          Cuatro Cinco Cinco Seis

                                                                                          And before people call me transphobic, I am not, I don't care if people wanna pretend and dress as the opposite sex and do surgery. But you shouldn't lie to other people like that. You are with someone that was born a boy. That's just a fact.

                                                                                          I'm not too familiar with transgender issues, but I'm pretty sure that this is transphobic.

                                                                                          [–]TristanJeremiahGoogle Übersetzer ist absolut effizient, Mann[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                          I love that song

                                                                                          [–]Jorfredo 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                                                          Is just not being attracted to a person born with the same genitalia as you considered transphobic, even if you bare no hatred towards them?

                                                                                          [–]thekeVnc 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          No, but if you end up in a situation like this kid, it is a good idea to do a bit of soul searching before deciding where to go with the relationship. Sometimes, the initial feelings of confusion or betrayal will pass and you'll find the love remains. If that happens, the logistical details will take care of themselves.

                                                                                          [–]BeesorBees 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                          I think most people would agree that having a genital preference is not transphobic, especially considering that some genitals could be a trigger for people who have suffered abuse. I think the question is: how do you know someone's genitals just by looking at them with their clothes on?

                                                                                          Not to mention that being trans does not foreclose that someone has a particular set of genitals, as some trans people have sex reassignment surgery.

                                                                                          [–]tomato-123 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                          how do you know someone's genitals just by looking at them with their clothes on?

                                                                                          If they present as a woman there's an extremely high probability that their genitals match what I'm interested in. When I'm attracted to someone, I'm attracted to a combination of what I observe and my best guess about the missing pieces given what I observe. If I later on find out their genitals didn't match what I expected it's not like I'm an irrational person to no longer be attracted to them even though nothing else changed. I cared about their genitals before I knew for sure, my prior just got updated with some new data

                                                                                          [–]ACoderGirl 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                          I've never seen anyone claim that.

                                                                                          The transphobia argument comes in more for post-op people, who you might not know are trans until they tell you. In which case, you're not rejecting them because of any physical or mental trait of that person, but rather medical history. That said, it's perfectly valid to reject the hypothetical trans person because, say, you want kids.

                                                                                          [–]squanto1357 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                          I've never met a trans person that would say that is transphobic.

                                                                                          [–]supercooper3000 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          There's multiple people in this thread saying exactly that.

                                                                                          [–]Fay-Kitty 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Am trans, agree.

                                                                                          [–]SloppySynapses 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          they're all over this thread lol

                                                                                          they're everywhere, and usually it's loud, aggressive transwomen

                                                                                          [–]Noach_Noam 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          It depends on who you talk to

                                                                                          [–]pretzeltwistsThis sub is fucking cancer 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                          It isn't- it's basic sexual preference

                                                                                          [–]Yuzumi 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          No. Dicks don't appeal to me (hell, I'm not even a fan of my own and I'm not trans), but I've also never been in the situation this kid has been in, not having dated any transgirls.

                                                                                          I'm fairly sure I'd be fine with post-op, but pre-op... I'd have to really like the girl to get passed the penis, unless they were working up to have the operation.

                                                                                          [–]What_Reddit_Thinks 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          To some people it seems.

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                                                                                            [–]SceneryExplorer 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            This must be rough for her. The thing is, preferences do exist, and if the physical/sexual aspect is just too much...I don't know. It's a tough issue. A sex vs gender issue.

                                                                                            [–]Bananatwatmuffin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            I would have many questions before I was able to think about what was best for me, or what I was going to choose to do with this. I would need her to elaborate and start from the beginning. Second question would be if she has female parts? How many people know about her transition from a male to a female, and is she legally named as a female.

                                                                                            This does not pertain to this but when I hear stories like this or something similar it reminds me of a movie called Soldiers Girl. This movie haunted me and Still haunts me to this day. That movie made me so so sad and made me wish that we lived in a place more diverse.

                                                                                            [–]meyrick_dead 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            Its actually interesting seeing such a problem with, you're looking to have Russian citizenship.

                                                                                            [–]ParamoreFanClubGiving u the helicopter dick 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            This all makes more sense when you start considering sexuality a spectrum and not a set of riding guidelines

                                                                                            [–]Excalibur54 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                            Why is there such a disparity between /r/subredditdrama's attitude and /r/drama's attitude?

                                                                                            I know we get a lot of hate for poking around in other people's business, but at least we usually have civil discussions about the topic.

                                                                                            [–]KimbobbinsBye bye, r/altright 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                            I'm honestly ashamed to be a part of Reddit at times, for as progressive and tolerant as some claim it to be, it has become a breeding ground for hate and intolerance over the last few years.

                                                                                            Call me an SJW or whatever madeup word you have for someone who isn't a bigoted piece of shit, but this honestly brings me down. I just don't know what to say anymore, how can people justify the blind hate they spew to complete strangers over little more than the colour of their skin, religious beliefs or gender/sexual identity?

                                                                                            All you can really do is look at it and sigh.

                                                                                            [–]Ghost51banned from me irl 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            Tres is pretty wild but I have to say the people coming to defence of the girl are much more hot headed than i expected.

                                                                                            [–]spiricom 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            How is so much of the heinous bullshit in that thread so heavily upvoted? Did one of the shithead alt-right/mra/kia subs catch wind of it and brigade?

                                                                                            [–]jackieramatrans goth bog-monster 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            That sinking feeling when you wake up to see a trans-related thread at the top of SRD with 660+ comments.

                                                                                            [–]karensue2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            You have to be.

                                                                                            [–]commanderkull 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            He would have had much better luck posting in /r/internetparents, advice there isn't written by children.

                                                                                            [–]Kiefyking 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            Wtf is this /b/ or /r9k/

                                                                                            [–]schmii 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                            I have to say for me one of the weirdest things about discussions like this are I often see people saying "I'd expect someone to tell me if the have AIDS/STI/something harmful or negative" and I always wonder if something in them just finds trans* people icky. I feel if you are going to put having a disease on the same level as being trans then you have to carry some transphobia in your heart.

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