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Assessing Dread Levels (self.askMRP)

V1adimirPoontin が 投稿

After discovering RP, and finding that MRP was the most appropriate forum for my circumstances, I have been working my way through the online sidebar material. I have a couple of questions about dread specifically, that I think will be helpful as I continue to digest the material and apply it to my LTR.

Background: 30M and 24F. Together for 1.5 years and living together. Currently engaged. Sex: M-Th = ~1/day, F-Sun = ~2-3/day. LTR initiates at least 50% of the time. I would say that ~ 90% of my initiations are successful. Hard No's are rare, and tend to only be when we are at her parent's house, she has particularly rough day at the office and claims exhaustion, or has been home and sick all day. I am satisfied with our sex life.

LTR's home life was very strict growing up, and she is naturally submissive and agreeable. Father refuses to provide her with advice or assistance unless she can confirm she has already asked my opinion and followed through on any advice I have given her. LTR works full time and we have equivalent levels of education. We contribute equitably to household duties. Disagreements are rare, but tend to focus on our difference in preference towards schedules. I am a morning person and LTR is a night owl.

Questions: In reading about developing a MAP, I noticed that achieving certain levels of dread should be interwoven with your MAP. Additionally, the sidebar material on dread states that one should not go past dread level 5 in a happy relationship. How do you assess what levels of dread you have already achieved? Or, do you "wipe the slate clean" and start from scratch? Here is additional information about my background in the LTR:

Level 1: While the idea of a frame is new to me, I believe LTR is solidly in my frame. I make all decisions, unless I have specifically deferred the decision to her. LTR is more of a comfort tester and not a shit tester. It is possible that I am not recognizing these shit tests, or that they just aren't as plentiful because it appears that LTR is naturally more submissive. I initiate sex whenever I like, and because denials are rare, I don't care when they happen.

Level 2: This is what lead me to see that dread and MAP are intertwined. I admit I haven't finished this reading, but I naturally enjoy goal setting and achieving. I'm currently awaiting surgery, and Doctor's orders that I not lift anything over 25 lbs. until cleared. At the recommendation of my physical therapist, I have recently taken up walking and yoga. I also do the exercises my PT assigned religiously. They are supposed to keep the injury from getting worse and expedite the recovery process. I did lift regularly before injury.

Level 3: Before the injury, I played or practiced with a mens' league several nights a week. This kept me out of the house, and allowed LTR time to do whatever. Following my injury I can't play, but I still get out of the house regularly and watch my old team or grab a couple of beers with them. Currently working on getting LTR into some additional activities outside of the house, as I prepare to be home bound for 4-6 weeks this summer.

Level 4: LTR tends to have the majority of her angsty moments in the morning (see comments above). This provides me with the perfect avenue for withdrawing my attention by simply leaving for work when she is running late and throwing a temper tantrum. On most days we carpool, so she knows when I leave without her that I disprove of her behavior.

Level 5: I have 6 custom suits, one for every day of the week and an extra in case one needs to take an unscheduled trip to the cleaners. Growing up my dad instilled in me the importance of "dressing for success." I make sure to actively seduce LTR, and make physical touching and groping a priority. At her request, I have agreed to reward good behavior with spankings.

Are there adjustments to the dread levels for happy relationships? Should the tools provided in dread be used the same on a LTR who rarely denies sex? Should I approach the process of MAP differently if I am looking to maintain current levels of happiness as an LTR progresses?

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[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are there adjustments to the dread levels for happy relationships?

Keep in mind that it's happy "right now". That could change in a year, month, or hour depending on the feelz. Thus, dread levels 1-5 are to be an area of constant improvement.

Escalating beyond that depends on the circumstances, but I'm in a similar situation as you now, and I'm keeping it a bit higher - making sure I get IOIs from strange, interacting in a friendly but plausibly deniable flirty way with strange with her around, and will run some catch-and-release day game on the side to keep my skillz sharp.
Always be improving and don't ever get complacent, not for her or the relationship, but for you. Complacency is what caused a lot of us to turn into fatassed betas over time.

[–]V1adimirPoontin[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree that my level of happiness can change at any time, but it isn't dependent upon LTR's feelz. My happiness is my happiness, but I know I have the power to contribute or detract from the overall happiness of the relationship. My focus will be on dispensing of shit tests and comfort tests as they come up, and definitely refusing to settle for the current state. I can always do better, and achieve more. Thanks.

[–]FireTemperedred beret 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

From the WIKI, written by u/BluePillProfessor :

I conceptualize Dread as a continuum with level 5 being the baseline "Dread" for a good or excellent relationship. In other words, for most guys, Level 1-5 are personal and social self improvement so that your "Dread" is at the level that it should be. After level 5, however, Dread takes on a different tenor, that rapidly escalates to a better relationship- with either your wife or with somebody else. To clarify, these are sequential. You don't go past level 5 if you are happy in the relationship.

That should answer your question.

[–]V1adimirPoontin[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I mentioned the quote in my post, so thank you for the clarification that it is hard stop. But, even after reading the post on the Dread Levels, I was still left with the questions above. For example, it seems like the Dread Levels are based around the premise that one isn't satisfied with their sex life, or that their partner is an angry harpy who tosses out hard no's like candy at a parade. But, that does not apply to my current situation (or as u/A_Rex pointed out, it doesn't apply right now).

I've tried using the search function to locate posts about what MRP looks like on Maintenance Mode, but left mostly empty handed. For example, Dread Level 4 suggests that if your LTR gives you a hard no, then you should withdraw your attention and presence. But, what if that is a rare occurrence and not an every day occurrence? Do you respond in the same way? Or, can you simply carry on with whatever you were doing prior to initiation? Is satisfaction the goal or 100% conversion rate, because Chad would get laid 100% of the time?

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Chad isn't real and even the closest approximation doesn't have a 100% success rate. That's nuts.

For guys who get quality sex from their SO on the regular, you need to know your woman and grasp the nuance. Like I said, I'm in your boat. So if I escalate and wife says "not right now" - that is not a hard no. Similarly, if I'm escalating and she says "stop" with a smile and giggle, that's "not right here/now", not a hard no. So keep up the flirting and initiate later. If she shoots it down later, that's a hard no. Act accordingly.

Also, I consider any form of "not tonight" to be a soft no. It's not "NO!" It's "not tonight". Often it's for legit reasons (bad cramps/flow, actually sick, actually exhausted (and we should know our wives well enough to know when they're actually tired vs. faking it). So no withdrawal of affection. On the rare occasions where I get an actual hard no, or she goes into unmanageable bitch mode, I withdraw affection and/or leave the house.

[–]V1adimirPoontin[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Good to know that the Theory of Chad doesn't go that far. LTR follows this pattern a lot. As you describe the, Soft No's happen on a more regular basis. It happened last night before bed. LTR claimed she was tired and still too sore from earlier in the day, and asked if I would be willing to shower with her in the morning in lieu of sex before bed. An extra hour of sleep and knowing I'd be giving her a shower facial in the morning was enough to let me drift off to bed easily.

The last Hard No I can remember was when we were at her parents' house for NYE. LTR is still quite terrified of her strict parents, her father in particular, and becomes a nervous wreck when I initiate if there is even a 0.00001% chance we could get "caught." I'd been drinking at the NYE party and decided to "break the rules" and initiate after we went up stairs. I got a fast, hard no. But, even then I understood and was somewhat sympathetic. Plus I knew we be home soon enough and she had a lot of pent up sexual energy waiting for me.

[–]FireTemperedred beret 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, u/A_Rex broke in down for you. Stay on your path and try not to overthink things.

[–]A_RexRED KNIGHT 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even that second one wasn't a hard no. It's a "not here, not now". And you should have known that would happen, so can't fault her. You did the right thing by banging her at home later.

As to your first one, you were correct again. Now matter how hawt we are, no woman is DTF all the time like we pretty much are. As long as her "no's" are really "not right now's", all is as going well.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

it seems like the Dread Levels are based around the premise that one isn't satisfied with their sex life, or that their partner is an angry harpy who tosses out hard no's like candy at a parade.

Yes it does.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

"Together for 1.5 years and living together. Currently engaged."

I would highly recommend reading all of BluePillProfessors info/posts and look @ what your read with what her discovered

Most guys get married and immediately start caving into status of fat lazy assed shit, or the "Happy Wife/Happy Life" shit.

BPP has an epiphany of wife telling him when first married that she does not need sex as much anymore. As a matter of fact lot's of guys write this....... You truly need to understand and conceptualize this is your life and ride and she can join it, or not, you want sex ? Have it

In relation to dread levels being intertwined with 1-5 with the MAP, you have hit an objective that most don't quite understand and seem to not fully grasp. It is also very much in the realm or the OYS which many seem to not want to cozy up to and go so fucking Rambo they need a reset or two

"Are there adjustments to the dread levels for happy relationships?"

Yes, I still cannot understand the poor fucks that aren't having sex after 3 months, after the first kid.

"Should the tools provided in dread be used the same on a LTR who rarely denies sex?"

Yes. You need to understand dread in it's entirety

It's not just about her, it's also about you, frame, confidence and direction you are headed- with or without her.

"Should I approach the process of MAP differently if I am looking to maintain current levels of happiness as an LTR progresses?"

You need to read Athol's book MAP is for everyone, but it is imperative for the fucks that have let themselves go and need to ready to go back on the open market.

Perhaps the biggest key factor lost in this entire conundrum, is that you need to be @ your peak 24/7 for sexual strategy, period You cannot slip an inch if you want to maintain the sex. (In my 24 year LTR, I have maintained myself MAP wise for all of those years and many friends, including my 20 year old's baby sitter (from his toddler years), comment that I don't age. I usually have get a good BJ those nights)

[–]V1adimirPoontin[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thanks man, this helps a lot. Your answers will provide a good background when I start reading MAP, now that I have a better understanding of how to frame my frame as it were. I actually did half expect our sex life to take a dip once we started living together, and then again when we got engaged. But, LTR proved me wrong. It actually went up to the point where I was turning down sex, because I needed to get other things done. I know that is no guarantee that it won't dry up after the wedding, so the message that you can never settle or be off your game is important.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

LET ME GIVE YOU A PIECE OF ADVICE. DON'T EVER TURN DOWN SEX

Pump and dump if you must, rage fuck, whatever, just don't turn it down

There are many stories among my wife and her friends how their husbands starting getting pissed with the ovulation sex. "Not mine," she said, and a few have asked me about that .......

[–]V1adimirPoontin[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good point. It was a unique set of circumstances. I am willing to admit that I am not a gladiator, and at the time was not capable of having sex for the 4th time that morning. Going forward I will focus on always being ready, willing and able.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I am satisfied with our sex life.

What is the point of using Dread game then? The whole point of going through the artificial "Dread Game" concept I put together based on a LOT of posts and input from other guys is to.....wait for it....get your woman's pussy wet so she will fuck you. The clue is the word "Game" in the concept of "Dread Game." Why are you introducing Dread Game into a high sex, great relationship where you can say: "I make all decisions, unless I have specifically deferred the decision to her." That calls for flowers and poetry, not Dread Game.

How do you assess what levels of dread you have already achieved?

They seem to be pretty self explanatory.

Should the tools provided in dread be used the same on a LTR who rarely denies sex?

Now you have it. IMHO Don't use Dread Game unless sex is a problem. Self Improvement, positive masculinity etc is all good.

Are there adjustments to the dread levels for happy relationships?

If you are talking about my book and post on Dread Game I am specifically addressing a problem marriage where the wife is denying sex and laying out a 12 step plan to "recover" from a low sex marriage using Red Pill concepts by building up to a logical break point and avoiding a confrontation until the very end.

A book on applying Red Pill to happy relationships is next generation stuff right there. A 12 Step Plan to keep your relationship great. Somebody should do it.

[–]V1adimirPoontin[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for this clarification. I liked the continual self improvement aspect that you emphasize in Dread Game, and I plan to integrate some of those as I start on my MAP. I agree that material related to MRP on Maintenance Mode would be great. I'm not naive enough to think that what I'm doing now will keep LTR at the same level of happiness forever, so any insight is always beneficial as the MAP evolves.

[–]BobbyPeru 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't know bro. I think you're overthinking it. Sometimes overthinking can get in the way of living.

[–]V1adimirPoontin[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the input. I was overthinking it, but now that things have been cleared up for me that won't be an issue. I'm still learning so no changes in plans or behavior yet. I've always taken the approach that setting goals and improving make living life easier, not more difficult. People are meant to work towards goals.