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The one question to ask... (self.GenderCritical)

JustOneFinalThing が 投稿

Long time-lurker, and I see a lot on this board about how no one goes after the virtue-signaling lefty men who sprout gender ideology to mask their misogyny. I've been learning (in real life and on social media) that if you really question them, the conversation shuts down and they have to admit (even tacitly) that you cannot change biological sex. Why don't we employ this tactic more often?

Every single time a straight male says, "Transwomen are women!", ask, "Would you date a non-op transwoman?" If not, why not? Ask gay men if they would date transmen; if not, why not? Ask straight women if they would date transmen; if not, why not?

I'm a lesbian, and I, too, have faced harassment for saying I would not date someone with a penis. I would love to see a concerted, widespread effort to turn the tables and ask these questions of everyone else.

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[–]raulbikscubefloating ghost woman 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (3子コメント)

but a lot of people have no problem lying about whether they would sleep with a trans person. there are lots of lesbians who are happy to say they'd date an MTT- or scared to admit they wouldn't- but never actually have or will.

(hence why MTTs are getting suspicious and saying shit like "i don't trust afabs who have only been with other afabs." it's not enough to just lie about your preferences to preserve their feelings anymore, they demand physical proof of your loyalty.)

edit: you know, as lesbians we are clearly unfairly targeted for this, but now that i think about it i don't think anyone should be asked to reveal or justify their preferences to prove a political point.

[–]BoozeBabe 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. People who care about virtue signaling aren't going to just stop virtue signaling when honesty is at stake...

[–]counterclockwise3 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

now that i think about it i don't think anyone should be asked to reveal or justify their preferences to prove a political point.

I thought it seemed like a potentially helpful tactic, especially when someone's preferences are clear and open and there's no 'reveal'. Can't the focus be not on their preferences but on forcing them to think truthfully about buying and re-selling 'Transwomen are women!!'?

[–]BimblebyGiant bipedal vagina. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

but now that i think about it i don't think anyone should be asked to reveal or justify their preferences to prove a political point

I agree with you in the sense that I don't think anyone should have to justify their preferences, but I struggle a bit with this. I do think it's valid to encourage someone to examine their preferences. Like I had to look at my feelings about fat people when I was younger because my feelings about fat bodies were a lot to do with the fact that my parents constantly mocked fat people when I was growing up, and then I developed anorexia. My preferences were very much skewed by some issues I had, in that case, and it was fair to ask me to consider whether I might feel differently if I got through my own craziness.

So I don't think it's always wrong to probe something, or to question yourself. I just don't think you can decide what the correct answer is and just refuse to accept or even hear anything other than that.

[–]Ohlins 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The question I want to know the answer to is: If these lefty men are so concerned for trans male safety, why don't they volunteer to protect them in male spaces? Similar to this. I also want to know why lefty men consider other males so dangerous to trans males but apparently not dangerous to women.

Lefty males commonly bemoan (on Reddit) that 'notallmen' except when it comes to trans males, in which case trans males are literally dying because females deny them entry to our spaces. Come on lefty males, take your trans "sisters" in with you to the men's room for protection!

[–]heidischallengedum spiro spero 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice turn around.

[–]bean18Loud Female 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm going to use this.

[–]Artemis_Jade 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Why limit the question to non-op transwomen? Straight guys wouldn't date a post-op transwoman either.

[–]vulvapeopleI am Terficus 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you hear about the Frank Maloney disaster? Some TV show set him up on a date with a straight man, the straight man said he was up for dating an M2T, but when Maloney showed up, the man was really uncomfortable. This is what Maloney looks like: https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2014/08/14/11/Kellie-Maloney.jpg

I think a lot of straight men (a lot of trans enablers in general) assume all M2Ts are hyperfeminine and beautiful especially if they've "completed" their transition, as if that means anything. The pre-op detail is important, or you could carry photos of late-transitioning M2Ts and of transbians, regardless of age, wherever you go.

[–]NoLadyBrainBiology is not a radfem conspiracy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Be sure one of the photos you carry is this one.

[–]GenderCriticalDadI have a Sex. Not a Gender 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think most people are woefully ignorant about the "realism" of post op simulated genitals. Not sure if I'm right, but most people assume that they are "realistic" and my understanding is that yes in the dark, no touching, you might not realise. But outside of that, hell you would. Am I wrong?

I guess I'm assuming that most men are after something a bit more involving than a 'hole'. Which may be wrong as well.

[–]BimblebyGiant bipedal vagina. 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not if you look at the photos on transbucket or realself - they confirm you are not wrong.

[–]GenderCriticalDadI have a Sex. Not a Gender 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll take your word for it.

[–]a1c3e5g7i9Exploratory researcher kid 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I think it's actually kinda split on that one. Some would, some wouldn't. I think, that when it comes down to a post op trans person it kinda just depends on the person.

[–]BimblebyGiant bipedal vagina. 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's true for pre-op, too. The popularity of 'shemale' porn may be a part of it, or maybe a lot of guys are attracted to femininity as much as female bodies, but I know lots of guys who would be into sleeping with trans women. Actually most guys I know who would sleep with trans women don't understand why they would get surgery at all. To them a post-op trans woman is just a botched woman, whereas a pre-op trans woman is a woman with something extra (I've had two guys say this to me, and it immediately tanked any respect I had for them as people - like seriously you don't realise that people do things for reasons other than making you want to fuck them?).

[–]a1c3e5g7i9Exploratory researcher kid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think part of it is that they don't even understand how transition will work, and why people do it. They seem to just see it in the context of she-male pornography.

[–]BimblebyGiant bipedal vagina. 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Totally. And actually I'd not thought about this before, but I wonder why/if there aren't a lot of porn-critical MtFs. The guys I knew who were into trans women objectified them so completely... more even than they objectified women, because at least they had generally been in relationships with women. They had to see glimpses of our humanity even through the porn world they lived in. With trans women they just saw nothing; it was horrible. It was really the final straw with my shitty ex seeing how he treated trans women :-( (I mitigated this as best I could, then left him, btw. Didn't just sit there with sad eyes.)

[–]a1c3e5g7i9Exploratory researcher kid 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, there are a fair amount of people like that. I've seen them be called tranny chasers, and they seem to fetishsize trans people. It cam go both ways, but it's mostly transwomen who are subject to this.

Edit: I knew a gay guy who had also developed an interest in transmen. He flirted with me when every other Ftm had turned him down, so I was his last resort. (He also hadn't cared to respect me as much before then as well. He would try to validate other transmen but didn't even try to treat me similarly. Like he would try to really refer to them as handsome men but didn't even see me in the same light, as he saw mr as trans, them as transMEN.) When he came to me he got pushy. Really touchy, kept trying to get me to dance with him (at prom, then a just dance game on the wii), and he tried to kiss me. He was annoying as hell, and luckily, after asking a few some what invasive questions about what it was like to be trans he moved on and went back to dating males.

[–]Amareldys 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And how well they pasd

[–]Artemis_Jade 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I would follow up with this question to any straight man who says he would do an MTT: if you made it with a transwoman...would you want anyone to know?

[–]a1c3e5g7i9Exploratory researcher kid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think that in most cases the man in question would probably not, simply due to the stigma attached.

[–]reallyquitefedup 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The one question I plan to ask, if brain differences are asserted, is: 'So Dave, are you saying that I, as a woman, have "a female brain" because I'm "cis" and not transgender?'. On some level, the average lefty dude will know that it's not considered PC to tell women they have female brains. If they can't say that I do but want to keep the brain-sex argument then the only logical conclusion is that transwomen have female brains but that women do not, which is obviously (or should be obviously) ludicrous. Thoughts?

[–]NettiStevensXX 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think this is an ok way to go about it, but unfortunately more and more neoliberal types ARE on the ladybrain bandwagon these days. Trans has normalized it. So you might have to argue the point that, no, ladybrain does not exist. Read up on your Cordelia Fine. ;)

[–]reallyquitefedup 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ha, Delusions of Gender arrived today!

[–]NettiStevensXX 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Haha, awesome! Perfect timing. Enjoy it, it's a really compelling read. :)

[–]yishengqingwa666FUCK YOUR PRONOUNS. -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I got "I have trans friends..." and I was like "Oh, of course you do."