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[–]backstept[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (0子コメント)

That's enough fun for tonight, folks.

Maybe we can find something else to argue about tomorrow, eh? /s

[–]it-reaches-out 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (24子コメント)

No spoilers: Presumably it's drifting, at a fairly high speed, and will take some time and effort to recover.

Spoilers without too much context, AG and on

[–]neilfarted 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I don't understand why someone who hasn't read the books would argue like you have with people who have read the books who understand what is happening/going to happen.

Just be patient and stop picking fights over your limited perspective.

[–]Ryoken0D 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (50子コメント)

This has been asked several times. First you need to remember that while in the books a lot of time has passed, in the show, we are a week, maybe two later? So we've got the scene where Fred says he's in deep shit over it, but beyond that there are bigger issues to deal with. AG Also, for the record, the Navoo is still paid for by the Mormons, if they get it back it's not as simple as Here's a ship for the Belters to use :p The immediate issue of dealing with the refugees is far more pressing than recovering a lost battering ram.

[–]FuriouFive 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Also, for the record, the Navoo is still paid for by the Mormons, if they get it back it's not as simple as Here's a ship for the Belters to use :p

Why does it matter who paid for it? Who is going to give it back to them? If they take it to an Earth or Mars court and the courts decide it is the Mormon's then who takes it away from the belters and gives it to the Mormons; neither Earth or Mars has jurisdiction over the belt. If they take it to a OPA court they will lose outright and the OPA will just keep it.

The Nauvoo belongs to the belt now.

Edit: I like how I am getting down voted for giving literally the same excuse given in the book for why the OPA will never give back the ship. This sub is off it's rocker sometimes.

[–]Ryoken0D 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Actually almost all of the belt is either in Earth or Mars trade zones where they have jurisdiction. Additionally, Tycho is an Earth Corp, Earth Station. As for who would give it back, well that depends how much pull the Mormons have with the UN wouldn't it?

Not saying any of it will happen or anything, but the idea that Fred can just launch a ship, someone else (or him), recover it, and the people paying for it just go Oh Well it's yours now, thats a little out there :p AG+

[–]FuriouFive 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

[–]Ryoken0D 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

[–]Dom834 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

[–]Ryoken0D 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

[–]Dom834 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, it's all possible.

I hope you're drawing the wrong conclusions, though, and this just reflects the fact Dawes's power has grown to the point not much happens on Ceres without his say-so, but nominally the governor is still in place. Well, maybe

[–]Ryoken0D 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I have a feeling it will be addressed, but because of the speed the show is at, the simple fact is there have been bigger things to worry about if Dawes isn't causing trouble. I mean first they had to deal with the Stealth Ships and having their fleets on alert, then shadowing eachothers ships and bases, blowing up moons, and it ended with Earth getting their ass spanked at Ganymede. In short, Earth atm only really has the time to care about issues involving Mars. My personal feeling is the OPA-Earth politics will probably be saved for next season, but it would be nice to see it addressed even if in passing on Earth during the summit.

[–]Dom834 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes. I agree it's a bit much on a plate that's pretty full, and anyway it was better to set in motion OPA factionalism first - which is a very good motive for postponing it. I'm just surprised they still had the events happen in the background, if you're right it's reached that point.

Ah damn, let's go back under those

I agree the UN's attention in mostly on Mars, but losing Ceres is just too big to ignore, even if it's only to have Avasarala swear about the news and fumes that for now there's nothing they can do about it.

[–]s7sost 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Nauvoo, please. It's in the title cards and subtitles, no excuse to spell it differently.

[–]xeow 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

At least they didn't call it the Nouveau. :)

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mea culpa. But I can't edit it.

[–]Fox2263 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (9子コメント)

It's been a while, but I think Tycho builds a ship fast enough to catch up to the Navoo and turn her around I guess.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Don't remember how they recover it in the book but building a ship would not be it, way too long.

Depending on the trajectory, all the may have to do is wait for the Nauvoo to come to them but they should have addressed it in "Pyre".

And if they were going to change the story, the Belters claiming the Nauvoo for the Ganymede refugees would have been a nice fit.

[–]Fox2263 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't think the Wiki has it right. The Nauvoo will eventually come to them once it passes the sun but the Navoo is a slow burn vessel. And Belters can't survive high G so they would have needed to hire Earthers to man it.

But Earth or Mars would certainly claim it long before the Belters if they let it go inward. Mars and Earth have warships after it in "Godspeed" the idea either would let it go is not credible.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

If the Nauvoo "comes to them" it's going to go by faster than they can blink, let alone do anything about it.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Engines are off, it's not accelerating anymore. It never could accelerate fast due to its structure.

The get on it, spin it and fire the engines at 1G to slow it down, just like every other ship in The Expanse.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

"Get on it"

That's not easy at all. That's like saying it's easy to catch bullets because you sit have to close your hand.

Also, we don't know if the engines are still firing.

And this repeated nonsense about it not being able to accelerate over 1G is just trolling.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's like saying it's easy to catch bullets because you sit have to close your hand.

The whole solar system is bullets whizzing around, no problem synching up, the entire Expanse ecosystem is based on it.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Comparing a thrown baseball to a rail gun there. The Nauvoo is hauling some serious ass even if the engines switched off after it missed Eros. It's well on its way outside the system when Eros crashes.

[–]jobvx 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

iirc, It was recovered by Turbo Raptor Jesus and is drifting to the eternal blackess of space, but I might be wrong.

[–]CaptainGreezy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's the Mormon's plan but in the meantime the OPA is summoning Mecha-Oi-Pampaw to do battle with Turbo Raptor Jesus and be like "stay away from the agua" all up in his face.

[–]Fox2263 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Potentially. But there's still a good few episodes left, and Bobby meeting Avasarala is up next. It could happen in the final episode named after the book. That could be the half way point if the first season is anything to go by.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Of course but the Nauvoo going off the storyline radar in Pyre was what I was grousing about.

[–]Fox2263 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

It wasn't really mentioned much in the books between it flying off and that scene I quoted. In fact that was the first mention of it in book 2, as I found it by a search and it was the first result.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

True in the book it just reappears but with the more contiguous time frame in the TV series, the Nauvoo is the elephant in the room.

[–]Fox2263 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They're busy thinking of other things.

They've most likely came up with a plan to build a ship to go after it. Not much else to do now until it's ready. It will be mentioned when it's time. It's not that big a deal. Nauvoo is barely in the show and it's not the main focus of the books until it becomes the Behemoth.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're busy thinking of other things.

Maybe the rich and powerful are but thousands of rock hoppers are thinking survival and salvage money and the Nauvoo is the biggest prize ever. Just taking pieces of it would end the cycle of poverty for a rock hopper family.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Lol Nauvoo is like #1000 most important issue in Sol system at this point.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Nauvoo is like #1000 most important issue in Sol system at this point.

Nauvoo is like the #1 most expensive prize in the Sol system at this point. Dirt poor rock hoppers would be after it like vultures. While our protagonists have the luxury of thinking big, most of the people in the Sol system are still trying to make living.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Dirt poor rock hoppers completely lack the means to retrieve or the knowledge of what exactly it is doing.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

They have ships and skills. No different than recovering asteroids.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Asteroids aren't passing through the Oort Cloud at a considerable fraction of c.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The Nauvoo was heading sunward not out.

[–]eruffini 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it might be time for /u/backstept to step in and shut this troll down.

[–]Fox2263 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think Nauvoo was flying out of the system in a straight line.

I'm going to have to go and find the quote now aren't I :)

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't see how it could be since it was going to push Eros sunward. But it doesn't really matter where the Nauvoo is it is the fact that this massive, expensive object goes off the story radar.

Something should have been mentioned about it especially since Fred raises the issue as they debate what to do about the protomolelcule on Ganymede and the need for housing for the Belter refugees.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't see how it could be? What? The nauvoo wasn't pointed at the sun. That's not how impacts work.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well I let your duke it out with the solar calculators here who say Nauvoo was going sunward. It would make sense that if Nauvoo was going to knock Eros sunward that the Navuoo would also be headed in that general direct, in.

But it doesn't matter, the Nauvoo is out and about in the solar system, the most expensive and largest man made object in history so not like it would disappear off anyone's radar.

That's supposed to a link to where the solar calculators on Reddit were doing their math and the Nauvoo's course post Eros.

<div class="reddit-embed" data-embed-media="www.redditmedia.com" data-embed-parent="false" data-embed-live="false" data-embed-uuid="e54c2416-3d46-40fd-bb84-b8959dbc5df4" data-embed-created="2017-03-19T23:43:47.821Z"><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/60awt4/ok_wheres_the_navuu/df4vkvm/">Comment</a> from discussion <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/60awt4/ok_wheres_the_navuu/">OK. Where's the Navuu?</a>.</div><script async src="https://www.redditstatic.com/comment-embed.js"></script>

[–]Fox2263 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (19子コメント)

It was only going to knock Eros of course, not take it all the way. It could have hit it from numerous different angles to accomplish this, not just from behind.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (18子コメント)

  1. It missed so whatever trajectory it was on remained and it was being pursued by UN and Martian warships. I could see Mars going for it especially after Ganymede.

  2. Doesn't matter where the Nauvoo is it is the fact that it disappears from the story.

[–]Fox2263 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's not mentioned until later in book two. The series has only just started book 2.

Here's the quote, page 343, kindle edition.

The ship under construction was still half undressed, ceramic and steel support beams open to the vacuum like bones. Tiny fireflies flickered inside and out: welders and sealant packs firing off too far away to see apart from the light. “Is that built for atmosphere?” “Nope. Kinda looks that way, though. That’s the Chesapeake. Or it will be, anyway. She’s designed for sustained high g. I think they’re talkin’ about running the poor bastard at something like eight g for a couple of months.” “All the way where?” Prax asked, doing a little napkin-back math in his head. “It would have to be outside the orbit of … anything.” “Yep, she’ll be going deep. They’re going after that Nauvoo.” “The generation ship that was supposed to knock Eros into the sun?” “That’s the one. They cut her engines when the plan went south, but she’s been cruisin’ on ever since. Wasn’t finished, so they can’t bring her around on remote. Instead, they’re buildin’ a retriever. Hope they manage too. The Nauvoo was an amazin’ piece of work. Of course, even if they get her back, it won’t keep the Mormons from suing Tycho into nonexistence if they can figure out how.” “Why would that be hard?” “OPA doesn’t recognize the courts on Earth and Mars, and they run the ones in the Belt. So it’s pretty much win in a court that doesn’t matter or lose in one that does.” “Oh,” Prax said.

[–]Ryoken0D 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't bother, he ignores anything that doesn't fit his narrative. I bet if the authors showed up here he'd argue with them too.

[–]Fox2263 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd bet my bottom dollar that the scene I quoted happens within 2 episodes.

[–]Ryoken0D 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably, they might leave it for the beginning of Season 3, if we don't see anymore of Tycho this season.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

No Belter would survive an extended 8G burn.

And in the TV show the Nauvoo is complete and ready to be occupied as the Mormons recount to Miller. Only thing holding it back is slow O2 leak. Not important in system as the Mormon notes but important outside the system.

So the TV Nauvoo is complete and ready to be inhabited by 1,000's of people. If the TV show is going to change the story, they own the change.

[–]Fox2263 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well...it's what happened...so don't know what to tell you. I suggest rereading Calibans War.

Also, Nauvoo was structurally complete. Just needed the fixtures and fittings. It would not have been 100% complete until a time during its voyage with the Mormons, them being the ones to finish it.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well...it's what happened...so don't know what to tell you. I suggest rereading Calibans War.

I suggest you watch the TV series as it is different. In the TV show, the Nauvoo is complete and ready to go other than a slow O2 air leak.

[–]Ryoken0D 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

It was not being perused by UN or Martian ships. UN and Martian ships were heading for Eros itself to find out why there were ships there. At no point was it stated or implied that the UN or Mars ever followed the ship after it missed. Not in the books or series.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

But the Nauvoo and Eros are one and the same at that point. We don't hear of the UN or Martian ships following Eros to Venus either and that takes time also.

On the TV show, a fully operational, fully habitable Nauvoo is doing its slow, 1G burn sunward having missed Eros. It would be easily boarded as it headed in system by either Earth or Martian ships.

How the Belters get a hold of it should have been mentioned in "Pyre". A good point would have been when Fred offhand mentions "stealing another ship". He could have said we recovered the Nauvoo and could redirect to intercept Ganymede and knock it into Jupiter.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

One and the same? What show are you watching : /

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Book and TV series diverge as on the TV show the Mormon's tell Miller that the Nauvoo is ready except for a problematic air leak. They even state that its not important for in system use but is a problem ex-system.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The ship being ready and the ship being ready to actually leave are not at all the same thing. Far from it.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The ship was ready to leave according to the Mormon when asked directly that very question by Miller.

Just the air leak that was only of significance once it leaves the solar system. No problem in system.

[–]Ryoken0D 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Wrong, the Navoo is NOT fully operational or Habitable. It is flat out said so in the books, and is never implied otherwise in the series. It is for the most part a Shell with just the engineering and environmental systems installed. The Mormon was talking only Critical Systems that are not done, Living quarters, and the whole interior with the earth wrapped on itself and all has not been done.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wrong, the Navoo is NOT fully operational or Habitable.

The Mormons tell Miller it is...remember this is the TV series not the book. Only a slow air lead holds them up the Mormon tells Miller.

The fact that Nauvoo is complete in the TV series may be used later.

[–]Ryoken0D 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

They mean major issue. If it's really all done but a leak then you're ignoring the fact that there are still parts of the outside of the ship that aren't complete that can be seen when it is launched. It was not a completed ship, and was not ready for people to live in.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They mean major issue.

They say "ready to go".

[–]eruffini 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Have you actually read the books?

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Have you actually listened to the books several times? My ship's the "Jefferson Mays" beltalowda.

[–]eruffini 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

No, I like to read the books I am interested in.

Apparently you haven't read or listened to any books and making shit up.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Chuckle...you have no idea who Jefferson Mays is or the reference.

[–]eruffini 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your initial response didn't include "My ship's the "Jefferson Mays" beltalowda.".

You edited it after I replied, but thanks for trying to play the game.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But included it before you replied beratna. It was the fact that you didn't know who Jefferson Mays is or that reading is so 20th century.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

"The Nauvoo is most definitely flying sunward and that is definitely above escape velocity."

The Nauvoo is built for long slow acceleration likely a steady 1G to provide gravity for a generation ship and no need for drugs or genetic modified plants to survive in low g.

It is Nauvoo's mass not its speed that would have moved Eros. But the Nauvoo MISSED Eros so its post collision heading is irrelevant.

Nauvoo's position at all is irrelevant to recovering it which would have been done immediately and in high competition between Earth, Mars and Belters. Earth and Martian warships were heading for it and Eros. The race for the Nauvoo should have been a item in "Pyre".

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Built for slow 1G acceleration when packed with billions of tons of humans and supplies. Take out most of the mass and you get one fast ship.

I don't know why you are obsessed with it being addressed in this particular episode, but there's really no need for them to address it at all. One guy with access codes pulling 10G for a couple months could recover it. No need to mention it until after he does it.

Nobody could have immediately gone to recover it, least of all earthers or Martians. They didn't even know it was recoverable or adrift. They might still not know. But you need the right ship and the right gear and the right information to do it. And there's no reason to think anyone was in that position in the immediate aftermath.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Take out most of the mass and you get one fast ship.

You get one massive ship, not very fast though. It would take a long time for the Nauvoo to build up speed. It's structure could not handle anything over 1g.

Those looking to recover the most expensive man made object in the universe would be after it early before it built up speed.

There's a fortune to be made.

[–]Taste_the__Rainbow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

There's lots of fortunes to be made for an omniscient observer of earth. But I'm not going after them. Because I don't know where they are or have the expertise to recover them.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But salvage is the rock hopppers base and the Nauvoo is loaded with expensive stuff...a salvage dream. Once in a lifetime opportunity to make a fortune. Think gold rush.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Even if you only watched the TV show, you would know that it is capable of travelling very fast indeed and not barely capable of doing 1g as you assumed."

But it can't accelerate fast. It will be going very fast many light years from now at slow 1g burn.

Nauvoo is the tortoise not the rabbit.

[–]EaglesPDX[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

"It's several years in the book between the events of LW and AG. It's been maybe a month in the show but they've never specified."

Nope. You just don't notice the time. The Rocinante has been repaired which takes many months. So events we see in "Pyre" are easily a year or more later.

But that is irrelevant to the Navoo going off the radar in "Pyre". It is the largest man made object in the solar system with a huge value. The idea that it is just floating away creates a gap in the TV show.

Navoo is built to house thousands of humans in a self sustaining environment. It would make a great "refugee base" and that would also give the Belters a legal salvage claim.

[–]CubemonkeyNYC 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It takes days to repair the roci on a place like Tycho. I think it took at most a few weeks in the entire book series. Where are you getting the months figure?

[–]EaglesPDX[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think months in the book. Even on the TV series, Drummer is telling us how battered the Rocinante is and she is amazed they even got it back to Tycho.

[–]CubemonkeyNYC 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I really really think you're way off base. You've gotten this time table in your head and it's messing with your ability to line up other events in the chronology.

[–]Ryoken0D 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And he ignores any evidence to the contrary. Also he uses the timetables from the book, but ignores the books stating the Navoo was not complete, just "functional".