全 133 件のコメント

[–]daftspunky [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

We have this saying back east: if you have to say it, then it's not true. See you in a few days!

[–]NOTrobertpaulson [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

be greedy when people are fearful

[–]Cryptolution [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Excellent advice. I think this is a great buying opportunity. BU is no t going to get 80% which via Charlie shrem is the threshold supposedly that BU needs. Although I must admit the fact BU has not put it in code in the first place is a huge indication of serious problems.

They will just stall SW, unless a UASF is launched.

[–]Beaucoin [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Perspective. All of this turmoil is just necessary growing pains and evolution. If it didn't happen now would happen in the future and may. Life is about adaptation to change good and bad. Ability to resolve one way or the other will evolve strength in the technology. No more whining unless you need the money today. If so, you have no business gambling like this. This IS speculation. Just wait this out and enjoy the buying opportunity.

[–]StoryBit [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Evolution! My thinking exactly. Watching this is like being a witness to the life being born out of primordial soup.

[–]RedGolpe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And indeed generally believed to originate from chaos.

[–]Ilogy [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Exactly! Bitcoin is moving into a new era, that is what this whole battle is fundamentally a reaction to. Bitcoin has grown to the point where it is no longer in the innocence of infancy and the dynamics of the real world -- such as power and politics -- are beginning to pour in.

Essentially, Bitcoin is like an adolescent, and team Core is like Bitcoin's parents, freaking out that Bitcoin is starting to explore sex and drugs (i.e., politics and power) and lose its innocence (i.e., decentralization). Team BU is like Bitcoin's teenage friend, trying to encourage it to do all these bad things, to explore the world.

We are all terrified because Bitcoin is losing its childhood and becoming something we fear. The irony, perhaps, is that that is precisely what will cause the rest of the world to take it much more seriously. We are getting ready to go to the moon, it's just not how we imagined it would be.

[–]OnDaEdge_ [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It's only 9 years old now. It'll probably get much worse when it hits the teens!

[–]ZombieTonyAbbott [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Bitcoin's parent is Satoshi, and none other. Core are the foster parents.

[–]iammagnanimous [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

BU is that friend who is trying to get BTC to smoke meth and leading it down the path of self destruction.

[–]buxtonwater3 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I've been in his community for a good 3 months and it went from all hail Bitcoin our lord and saviour, to "it's okay guys just keep believing in our lord Satoshi", to fuck this I'm cashing out, then reverse order, and then back again to this.

Love you guys

[–]satoshicoin [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The religious devotion to Satoshi is from BU supporters.

[–]plumbforbtc [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just like a religious devotion of any sort being used to control the masses.

[–]3thR [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

www.bitfinex.com just created BCC and BCU...omg

[–]satoshicoin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They're meta tokens I believe. Basically they allow you to make a bet on which chain will be dominant after a year. The original "BTC" ticker remains.

[–]travwill [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

WTF? Why do that if doesn't exist yet.

[–]dooglus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's a way to split your BTC into two parts and dump the part you don't want (and even to use the proceeds to buy more of the part you do want) before any fork even happens.

It will provide a glimpse of how the two forks would fare against each other if a fork did happen, since it allows you to dump the fork you don't like and profit from it.

See this thread.

[–]paleh0rse [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

They've gone full casino at this point. The tokens themselves won't provide any meaningful data or accurate reflections of sentiment. Instead, they'll only act as playthings for traders to pump and dump between now and December, with no deeper meaning or insight whatsoever.

[–]Drunkenaardvark [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

No harm no foul. God bless freedom. People enjoy trading so let them trade.

[–]paleh0rse [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I simply worry that fools throughout the community may try to extract some sort of deeper meaning from the future token prices, rather than recognize them for the meaningless playthings that they are.

[–]dooglus [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The tokens themselves won't provide any meaningful data or accurate reflections of sentiment

Why wouldn't they? After the fork the tokens turn into the real forked coins.

[–]paleh0rse [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

And before the fork, they can be traded for fiat money -- which is all that matters to most traders at the end of the day.

Actual traders see these tokens as shiny new playthings -- just as they see every other meaningless and faceless altcoin they buy and sell every day in their never-ending pursuit of profits. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you're looking at these tokens as some newfangled way to provide deeper insight into community sentiment, then you've obviously not spent much time in Bitcoin's day-trading community.

[–]dooglus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've not spent much time with day traders, it's true.

Either way, if you think BTU is going to replace BTC then right now you can more than triple your holdings using the new BitFinex instruments. Where are all the BU supporters? Why aren't they taking advantage of this amazing opportunity? The market is suggesting that real Bitcoin is more popular. There's money to be made by "correcting" this mistake. Right?

[–]MotherSuperiour [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've been in a similar mindset lately. It has gotten to a point where I'm starting to lose faith.

At this point I think I would even be fine with a Core hardfork. We just can't afford to have our only competent team of devs ousted from Bitcoin

[–]bitpotluck [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

In 6 months, you may choose to check in again in another 6. I dont think this will be resolved by then.

[–]Ilogy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't be surprised if in 20 years countries are threatening war over Bitcoin.

[–]Spartacus_Nakamoto [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

it will have proven to me that cryptocurrencies are easy to hijack, and therefore a non-viable concept.

Exactly. Worst case scenario, this doesn't work out because it was easy to break, so no revolution, just a really weird footnote in history. I'm almost positive bitcoin will survive this though, it's been through worse. There will always be another boogieman, and I will keep hodling and eating popcorn.

[–]BTCwarrior [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Agreed, but not so clear on the resolution. I think this is Bitcoin's last great internal boss battle. After this, it may be nigh-impossible to make any substantial change to the protocol. As long as this gets settle with a foundation of scaling built in, and as long as we don't kill ourselves in the process (note that my one tin-foil hat is that outside elements are trolling to make the two camps hate each other even more) then when this is done, we will be back to fighting against the real enemies.

[–]Ilogy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Right now, the way things are looking . . . I'm thinking it is going to be something between worse and best case scenarios. In other words, Bitcoin isn't going to result in the anarchist/libertarian utopia so many dreamed of. It is going to be captured by Power . . . And yet, it is also going to change the world, change finance, change law, change everything.

It reminds me of the early internet utopians. They believed the internet and free exchange of knowledge and ideas would tremendously liberate people, and it has, just not in the way everyone imagined.

[–]LordBTCLDNredditor for 1 month [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I may do the same

[–]itsinfo [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Did the same a year ago. Came back, it got worse.

[–]Da-Doomredditor for 9 days [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But.. a year ago the price was... 400!

And the number of bitcoin mined wasn't... approaching 90.00%!

ITS OVER 9000

[–]moral_agent [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Sold about 25% of my coins today to lower risk. This whole situation sucks.

[–]bitsteiner [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Looks like you sold at the low. I am hodling. If we end up with two coins, I have two coins, so what?

[–]moral_agent [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You could end up holding two coins which together add up to 450 bucks. So what? Well if you are ok with that then no problem. No one knows the future so you have to make moves that are sensible in lots of possible futures.

[–]MuchoCalienteMexicanredditor for 1 month [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'll stay here I can handle all this drama .. ultimately bitcoin will triumph!

[–]Lorrang [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Sounds reasonable. The timing of this debacle couldn't have been worse.

Right now I'm guessing someone like Roger Ver or the Winklevosses has decided to pull out, and it shows.

[–]viajero_loco [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

you have no idea what it will do to the price if they pull out. they haven't yet, but they very well might. that risk alone is enough to make any smart investor sell soon if they haven't already. I would be very, very surprised if price can hold above 800. I'd expect 560 or 470 at the very least, if jihan and roger keep fighting.

for now, at least, it sounds like both will: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/601t7u/jihan_wus_messages_after_the_announcement_seem_to/

miners can mine profitable at 337$ when we assume 10c electricity costs. source

at 5 cents they turn a buck as long as price is above 100$

we have to assume that chinese miners have almost 0 electricity costs and can mine at a loss anyway since bitcoin can circumvent capital controls.

I think, jihan playing it to the very end is a very real possibility. that means we might test very old support in the 150-250$ range. If he wins, which is also entirely possible, real bitcoin will be dead and the price will be 0 - no clue what price a future jihan coin will have.

I don't really think he will win. just pointing out that it is a possibility and what the uncertainty will do to the price.

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

@ARKblockchain

2017-03-18 17:36 UTC

1/ 👉 $337 appears to be the pivotal price where #Bitcoin miners start to bleed money.

[Attached pic] [Imgur rehost]


This message was created by a bot

[Contact creator][Source code]

[–]FlappySocks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Diversify. Take Overstock.com as an example. A huge supporter of Bitcoin, has invested in Factom & Ethereum. The latter as we know from the last week has quadrupled in price.

There is a lot happening in the crypto space right now, and it doesn't all evolve around Bitcoin.

[–]smooothh [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

See you soon when Bitcoin Unlimited is deployed

[–]Luccio [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah! you know you got something there! The true indication that the human species hasn't changed, Greed(miner fees), Divide and Conquer(BU, etc). See ya in 6mo., I can't take this crap either! Maybe I should just quit r/bitcoin. Anyways, Summer is around the corner, see you all in Fall.

[–]MuchoCalienteMexicanredditor for 1 month [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'll stay here I can handle all this drama .. ultimately bitcoin will triumph!

[–]mootinator [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm with you. Took some profits, didn't go broke. I'd like to take a step back but my willpower to stay away is lacking so far.

[–]Da-Doomredditor for 9 days [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You know bitcoin isn't gonna fail. Good play to avoid the negativity if you ain't feelin it. The more they fight it, the harder BTC will fight back my friend. Strength and honor! Hodl! To the moon!

Deflationary store of value can't be stopped and some serious power players and structures are attacking it nonstop. Hard to avoid the negative news these days. But BTC is resistent, very resistent, and this excellent cryto will only bounce back harder.

[–]Voogru [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Cash some out and buy back in when wired magazine makes a new article about bitcoin dying.

Always a good indicator.

[–]glibbertarian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I still think that a cryptocurrency will one day disrupt the world economy for the better, and I still think that crypto will be called Bitcoin, but I have no idea how it will get there.

[–]twentydollarbills [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Lies. It's like anouncing your deleting facebook. See ya in two weeks.

[–]bdd4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We'll be having the exact same conversation in 6 mos. See you when you get back. This has been going on for a year. * yawn*

[–]Liquid_child [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, bro, say it ain't so. Why you gotta go?

[–]MillyBitcoin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I am on my 3-month check-in. Not much changed, just really boring stuff at this point except that you can make some money off the volatility.

It is really annoying, Bitcoin is such a great tool but it such a magnet for people who want to divert attention away from what makes Bitcoin valuable and useful. It is sort of the Azealia Banks of money.

[–]exab [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You may miss the Independence Day.

[–]uglymelt [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Either way, I'm done with this cancer.

its like choosing between trump and hillary currently.

core = blockstream, bu = roger ver

both teams deserve any investment.

[–]Miz4r_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Let's not compare Bitcoin to the abomination that is called the US election. Core = 100+ different developers of which only a select few are employed by Blockstream. They just write, test and review code, which they have done for many years now and they are considered the very best in the cryptofield. They do not control Bitcoin as some people mistakenly think. Miners also do not control Bitcoin. Nobody does, this is why it's called decentralized. BU = a small team of coders who want to turn Bitcoin into some kind of democracy where miners control Bitcoin. Their code also seems to lack peer review and proper testing. Pretty dangerous if you ask me.

[–]tonytoppinredditor for 2 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Agreed wholeheartedly. Very well put. I shall do the same. Thanks bitcoin, this shit is mental.

[–]inthecaveminingredditor for 2 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The fact that there is an 'industry letter' pin-holing bitcoin to a single iteration of block chain software is the last drop. I cannot fathom the depth of stupidity you have to sink to to think this is a good idea. I wen't deep in alts when the ETH failed, and I couldn't be happier, bitcoin is a shitshow right now.

[–]booker888redditor for 15 hours [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You'll be back in a week.

You are like one of those "holders" who say on here they are holding for 5 years and then the confess they just sold all their BTC stash. People on here are full of shit and you are probably not an exception. Of course maybe you are, but just saying from our perspective, the odds of that are slim.

And why does everyone think it is "stupidity" that is causing this and causing the price to tank? Bitcoin has a lot of enemies out there and they could be engineering much of this. It could be sabotage.

[–]iWishToFlyredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

u should just sell them all now seriously. dont let ur money go down the toilet

[–]47763cd8-4e43-4a75-8 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If it is run by different people then it was and is never centralized, idiot. You're the cancer; don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

[–]w4pk1 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

well, you want all your BTC on an exchange if its gonna split

just sayin....

[–]everythingEzra2 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Why would we want our sweet loot on an exchange?

[–]w4pk1 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

because it's the only way to make sure it's value is preserved if BTC splits thats why.

[–]coinsinspace [スコア非表示]  (23子コメント)

Core wins: Bitcoin becomes exclusively a speculation toy for bored speculators, a digital version of beanie babies. The only practical LN hubs are major exchanges, with more strict KYC/AML than banks and paypal, so no one uses it anyway.

BU wins: eventually you can pay with bitcoins for bread in Venezuela, where it started to be used by the masses trying to hide their wealth from the socialist government. Blocks are 100MB which is enough for 2-3million of efficiently encoded transactions. 300kBps of download bandwidth is an easily achievable minimum to operate a full node.

Choice is easy.

[–]juanduluoz [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

That's very bad math.

[–]coinsinspace [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

You wrote that you are a software engineer. Think about how bitcoin protocol works, how it can be scaled and you will arrive at similar numbers.

[–]juanduluoz [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

You're not accounting for decentralization.

[–]coinsinspace [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

That sentence uses 'decentralization' as a meme devoid of meaning. Nothing real to respond, it's like 'think of the children'. How exactly larger blocks damage decentralization and at what size it starts to occur?

[–]juanduluoz [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

[–]coinsinspace [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

Great, because bitcoin with 100MB blocks allows that. Blockchain storage can be achieved via decentralized storage (through rateless erasure coding).

Although I don't necessarily agree that full nodes on smartphones are necessary. Storing, sending and computing it is one thing, but just constant connection eats battery significantly.

[–]juanduluoz [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

because bitcoin with 100MB blocks allows that.

LOL, that is outrageous and the rest of sentence makes no sense what so ever.

constant connection

Doesn't need to be constant. It just needs to be able to enforce the consensus rules when receiving money.

[–]coinsinspace [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

that is outrageous

uh huh. I'm still waiting for any technical argument.

[–]Frogolocalypse [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

BU wins = china-coin.

No thanks. You can use china-coin if you want to when they split.

[–]coinsinspace [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Your post illustrated - just change the flag.

[–]Frogolocalypse [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Emergent consensus lets miners decide, through force of hash, the block size. This provides for them an incentive such that, as they increase the block-size, it leads to the nodes not being able to be run except with massive connections to the other nodes and miners. The miners that are closer (in bandwidth) to the other nodes, will have more time to retrieve the transaction and block data. Nodes and miners on slower connections will further deplete, as they can't source the data fast enough. This will also mean that communication between miners will favor miners that are closer together.

This means, by design, bitmain will be able to force ALL miners and ALL nodes off of the network, and every node and every miner will be housed in bitmain data-centers.

You numpties are cheering for china-coin.

[–]coinsinspace [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

The miners that are closer (in bandwidth)

You know that even 1GB blocks require only 1.7MB/s + some overhead? Easy to calculate. Bandwidth is absolutely not a limiting factor in anything.

[–]Frogolocalypse [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

aaaaaaand, you wrong.

https://iancoleman.github.io/blocksize/#_

Each MB requires 0.37MB/s upload bandwidth for eight peers. Minimum.

Oh dear. You didn't know that, did you?

[–]coinsinspace [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Why not 1TB/s if you're already making ridiculous stuff up?

The only thing that needs to be propagated is a block header + list of transaction ids. Look up compact blocks and XThin

"An average full 1MB block announcement can be reconstructed by the receiving node with a block sketch of 9KB, plus overhead for each transaction in the block that is not in the receiving node’s mempool. The largest block sketches seen top out at a few bytes north of 20KB."

That's from Core. Bandwidth-wise what matters is blocksize divided by time between blocks.
Even that is slightly inefficient: it uses 48 bit txids, but as of now only 26 bits are required - deterministic utxo id of first input instead, or in-block index for spending unconfirmed txs. That's a 45% saving in space.

[–]Frogolocalypse [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

aaaaaaand, you wrong.

https://iancoleman.github.io/blocksize/#_

Each MB requires 0.37MB/s upload bandwidth for eight peers. Minimum.

Oh dear. You didn't know that, did you?