全 22 件のコメント

[–]EssencialToLife 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

it may come sooner than anybody thinks

I doubt it. In fact, if you want to redpill someone on this story you might go to jail in europe and canada. This is no empty threat, they really do it.

Where do people get their history knowledge from? Not school, teachers are often repulsively bad in history. Its from films. Yep, hollywood. And who controls it? Yep.

[–]kayjaylayray 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. Zundel proved it in Canada in a court of law and was charged. Anyone linked with the Allies can't admit they are wrong. That would make them look stupid.

[–]PlagueofCustom 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

It's a shame how insane you holocaust deniers are. There are unbelievably enormous reams of evidence of the Holocaust taking place. It is an irrefutable fact unless your hatred of Jews obscures it.

[–]erastusfunk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Produce said evidence. Actually, we have 32 voluminous books full of data proving the exaggerated Holocaust claims.

[–]PlagueofCustom 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

It's absurd to even debate this so I'm going to spend long messing around and debating irrational people - as a starter: http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/NT_major-war-criminals.html -- those are the official records of the Nuremberg Trials, that should be enough for anyone. If you want to dispute the number 6 million - fine. But to say it was in the thousands is monstrous. There are also tens of thousands of other pieces of evidence for the Holocaust occurring as it has been depicted. I'm not going to debate a bunch of irrational anti-semites though, so that will be all.

[–]beast-freak 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I just send people to http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com.

The historian who blogs there will happily answer any of their questions.

[–]PlagueofCustom 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yeah, but unfortunately I believe that even if you marched these guys through Auschwitz in 1944 they wouldn't believe what was going on, or (more likely), they would be working the "delousing chamber" as vigorously as possible. I'm not sure if it's because they just hate Jews so they don't believe it occurred or they know it occurred and they hate Jews so they want to obfuscate the facts. You have to be insane, paranoid, or filled to the brim with hate to disbelieve the thorough and multitudinous evidence for the Holocaust. The logistics of making up a lie that big are impossible. In any case, good find!

[–]beast-freak 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Some of them eventually recant

Kudos for Eric. Both his income and his identity was tied up in his revisionist world view. I posted a link to his long article detailing the reasons for his change of heart here: https://redd.it/5zbx2t

The reactions in the denialist camp are hilarious as they come up with increasingly baroque conspiracy theories to explain why one of their leaders should suddenly be supporting the opposition. See for instance this thread from this sub.

[–]PlagueofCustom 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yes, but he is not giving up the "Zionist Conspiracy" part. He's just enfolding it into the modern "alt-right" conspiracist and racist movement to protect "western civilization" from Jews, Muslims, and Black people. I do think it's a good thing that people are accepting the Holocaust, but it is also a PR move to help them maintain relevance and gain traction in a modern world that is more concerned with other aspects of anti-semitism, Islamophobia, and racism than defending Nazi extermination.

[–]beast-freak 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I realize that but it is still quite a move on his part. I like to imagine (it could be fantasy) that if he is treated fairly he will give up the "Zionist conspiracy" as well.

Actually I am sick of these people (although I might enjoy discussing things with Eric) As you say most of them are not amenable to reason. They abuse history (and historical analysis) and their discourse enevitably turns anti-semetic. In my personal life despite knowing one or two I refuse to debate them — it simply seems to validate their identity and wastes my time.

The sad thing is that I think there no topic should be off limits for discussion. Some of the denialist literature has been useful for correcting sloppy scholarship in our understanding of the holocaust but as you say these people have an agenda and it is certainly not dispassionate history.

[–]PlagueofCustom 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I can honestly say I've never personally met anyone who denies the Holocaust, I too believe that you should allow people to debate anything, and I disagree (though I understand) with the European stance of criminalizing Holocaust Denial. But I think if you believe in the these theories and Holocaust Denial it makes me think that something else is going on mentally in the individual. Certainly reason won't do it, and, like you said, maybe it's all caught up in their personal identities -- I just hope some of these people give up the baroque conspiracies, you don't have to be paranoid or bigoted to believe that the world is wicked or has many intractable problems or that the truth of many things is obscured. But believing in vast Jewish Conspiracies and denying the Holocaust seems like a considerable waste of time and energy.

[–]beast-freak 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I can honestly say I've never personally met anyone who denies the Holocaust.

You are fortunate.

I live in New Zealand and there is a strong feeling of egalitarianism here. This means everyone feels entitled to their opinion, their opinion is as good as anyone else's, and academics are seen as a sort PC elite.

Joe Blow (who runs a successful small business feels his (and it is mostly men) views — picked up from watching a "documentary" (or two) on YouTube — are as valid as anyone's and damned if anybody is going to tell himotherwise. He certainly won't be dictated to by a so called "expert." Hence the flourishing of weirdness: DIY medicine involving crank cures (because I know as much as mah doctor right); Holocaust denial; Strange theories about banking; New Age religious belief. I think this is a bit of a global trend tbh. Fortunately because of our low population we all have to get along so we don't get the factionalism that bests both Europe and the States, people with right wing and left wing views have to bump along together. Attempts at cultural purity here are also complicated by the fact the original inhabitants of our fair islands are Maori; Authentic NZ culture (whatever that means) would probably be more Maori than it is now.

[–]anon_throwaway0 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The biggest lie may be the holohoax, but the bigger one is the flat earth being hidden to the world.

[–]imengun 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

keep fighting the good fight brother

[–]DeucesCracked -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

What website is that supposed to be from? The Daily Stormer? About as credible as Dr. Seuss.

I know you don't want to believe the truth. I can understand that. Nobody wants to feel bad for something their ancestors did. American Southerners are still rubbed raw by the idea that their families participated in slave ownership. They have the same reactions as some new Nazis do to historical fact: Either the blacks needed and deserved it, or they were the 'good' slave owners, or it never happened.

None of their arguments are true, nor are any of yours. Nor do any of yours make any sense.

If by some chance you just think that Jews (not the Jews, there is no such thing as the Jews) are the cause of all your problems maybe you should look at your own lives and behaviors before leaping out on an illogical tangent.

[–]march21wait4it 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

the cause of all your problems

maybe you should look at your own lives and behaviors

Funny, to hear this from a Jew (of course you will deny that). You are the ones who should learn from your own history. You've been complaining for 3000 years now, stop it already.

[–]DeucesCracked -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Deny what?

3000 years? Um... you need to learn your history.

Anyway, you can tell a lot about the strength of someone's arguments when all they can do to reply to criticism is to attack their opponent. Weakness, extreme weakness.

[–]march21wait4it 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Deny what?

That you are a Jew, of course. You always do that, trying to pass as Europeans. I'm just making readers aware of your tactics. Tell me now about your Aryan family tracing back ten generations.

someone's arguments

It was more of an observation, I don't care about your "criticism".

[–]DeucesCracked -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Uh... what? What are you talking about? Are you saying that you are a Jew trying to pose as an Aryan? I mean, by your logic, if you say that you are Aryan or non-Jewish then you must be a Jew, right? I guess... it seems... everyone in the world is a Jew unless they say they are, in which case they must not be. Because you know Jews just lie. So how could they be honest about being Jewish?

Strange world you live in.

If you read a single page of my post history you'd already know if I were Jewish or not. And I'm not European. I am American.

It was more of an observation, I don't care about your "criticism".

And your "observation" is the defense mechanism of being unable to attack the message and therefore attacking the messenger. Guess I hit a nerve. Like I said, and now have the opportunity to repeat, it makes you look incredibly weak.

edit: I just realized that thanks to your presumptuousness I actually got to factually destroy a racist argument by demonstration. I wonder if it's a common one? I have never heard anyone say that Jews always deny being Jews. Why would anyone want to claim to be Aryan? And... you do know the Aryan people come from India and are brown skinned right? I mean... you do know that, right?