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[Opinion] We should never have bought Pogba, Fergie was right to sell him. (self.reddevils)

The_Truth- が 投稿

This isn't reactionary, I've been waiting to post this since a month ago. Thought I'd give it a little longer though.

Fergie released him for a reason. The reason was that he tried to negotiate playing time as a clause in his contract. This indicates to Fergie that this player thought he was bigger than the club early on. Not much, I will argue, has changed.

Let me ask you this: if he was to turn around now and leave the club because his recent performances led to him being dropped, and he walked out the club because it violated a clause of his contract that guaranteed playing time would you be angry? Would you turn your attention towards the club and ask why his clauses are not being met? I hope you don't call yourself a fan of this club if your answer to the latter was yes..

I think this attitude, for me, speaks of a selfish player, a player who plays more for his social media account than his club and teammates. We've been sat in 6th practically the whole season and I still see him have time to go get stupid haircuts and act like we've already been crowned champions with his displays in social media. We live in a different time though, so I can maybe let that slide. What I won't let slide is that all this behaviour is indicative of what Fergies reasoning was behind dropping him was. He's not a team player, he's not willing to earn his playing time like everyone else, and when the going gets tough (and as we have seen from recent performances) he throws in the towel.

Kante and Pogbas stats yesterday were just disgusting in comparison. We were 1 man down yes but I've seen Chelsea beat Barca with 10 men so it's not too much of an excuse for a poor individual performance of a midfielder. Pogba lost 16 duels yesterday, Kante lost 3! 3! He is half the size of Pogba. Pogba's head drops too much. He doesn't seem to play for United, rather his own image, and things don't go his way he throws the toys out and stops giving his all. I don't know if it's all the dabbing, nostalgia, his relationship with Zlatan that is making him escape so much criticism from our fans but I've had enough. Imagine if any other of our midfielders were doing this, and then had audacity to try and factor playing time into their contracts.

And Fergie was rarely wrong with who he booted out our club because they weren't team players or thought they were bigger than the club. Tevez, Keane, Beckham to name a few. And he did make mistakes, but I still don't see how Pogba was one of em. If we still had Fergie I would put money on it that we wouldn't have bought Pogba, and he is showing why with his attitude and performances. Asking for playing time in a contract is not the question of which a United level player should be asking. Fergie knew this, and Pogba is showing it, regardless of having time to become more 'mature'.

Don't get me wrong I love anyone who represents our club, and he does seem to genuinely love United, but it seems like he came here to prove something to HIS fans as opposed to those of the club. And it's becoming a choir to watch him each week. I hope he 'comes good' but I saw Memphis go down this same Hollywood football route as Pogba seems to be going down. Maybe the only reason we haven't dropped him yet is because of his price tag, which I didn't really want to mention because as you can see from my argument it isn't really relevant as to why I don't like him. Zlatan was free, Pogba was most expensive player in the world, I don't think money has fuck all to do with how a player should perform in all honesty.

Jose Mourinho needs to have the balls to stand up and do something about it. I'm getting sick of it. I'd sooner drop someone like Pogba before I drop Rooney. It's an attitude thing. It's why Fellaini still gets game time even though he is shit. So the same should surely apply to Pogba. 100m or 1m I wanna see someone as big and strong and with the quality of him try harder to win duels, not let his head drop in big games, give his absolute fucking all and stop making selfish decisions to try a roulette or a 40 yard screamer every opportunity he gets. I wanna see a United centre mid do the centre mid role properly. Fergie didn't do 'star' players, so why are we doing them now?

End of rant.

TL;DR Fergie sold Pogba for a reason: asking for as opposed to earning playing time. This was indicative of a player who was not immediately playing for his club but rather himself. He has shown that through his recent performances on the pitch. Fergie was right to sell him and would not have bought him back had he still been our manager now.

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[–]united_workaccRooney 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Good lord, fellas do yourselves a favor and don't read that.

[–]Count__Duckula 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I stopped reading after 'this isn't reactionary'

[–]byZedd 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Stopped reading after the first paragraph

[–]Kiddcohen39Herrera 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Didn't make it past the part where he admitted he thought Pogba was a flop a month ago.

[–]dmccmanga 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same here speculation is alive and well

[–]Titty_mcvittieCantona 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I watched the game last night with a Liverpool fan. He said it makes him sick watching Pogba and realising how good he is going to be for us. Have some faith in him.

edit: Faith in Pogba that is. Not my Scouse mate, he's a cunt.

[–]martial_9Mikhi 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

how good he is going to be for us

Your scouser mate is bang on (must feel weird to him), he just needs Mou to work his magic a bit more as Pogs matures

OP has a point though, when the going has got tough recently Pogs has gone missing to an extent (and its not impossible Fergie knew this would happen).

Mourinho can't even give him a rest because (As Lampard said last week) "United do not need an £89m problem"

[–]pharlap1Ander-Herrera 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for clarifying.

[–]LeorenthelaPogba 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

sigh... just wait for a bad performance and the shit hit the fans.

  • fergie didn't think he is ready to be a first team player, pogba thought he did, juventus obviously thought so as well, and its hard to argue with results, and he did bring results there.

  • fergie didn't release him, we as a club wanted him to stay and progress further, we had long talks with him from several old and current squad players including Rio and Neville, but he decided he wants to play and get first team experience else where.

  • strange and hypothetical question, he won't leave , he has a contract, which is totally different then a player not wanting to sign a new contract.

  • if you think the club has nothing to do with the marketing campaigns revolving pogba you are delusional, there's a reason why we bought his image rights, the club makes money and pushes him to do it.

  • never seen him throw in the towel, he lacks defensive qualities, and its understandable for a player who had a juve team built around letting him shine(3 cb's, a defensive mid behind him, a dinamo like vidal next to him, quick strikers), he is learning that side, and the improvement is apparent, at the start of the season we couldn't win against watford where he was lacking the defensive quality. half a year later he bossed them in the same system (4-2-3-1).

  • memphis never went on any hollywood route, he was a big professional who didn't succeed here for several reasons, but not due to lack of commitment.

  • the reason we didn't drop him is because he is a quality midfielder, we don't have anyone better, he should have double assist figures this season if our attack could finish, by any stat he is one of the best central midfielders in the premier league , and the fact he has a bad run of form for the last 2-3 games doesn't make him suddenly a shit player.

  • jose know's how to treat players, i believe in his man management, if he thinks its better for pogba to stay on the field then sit on the bench to improve, so i trust his judgment

[–]The_Truth-[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

All Memphis did was party and spend money. Came with no intention to play football. Pogba may show a bit more commitment than that, but he isn't far off.

The club never did that so much with Ronaldo who was arguably more marketable, so why is Pogba dancing so much and getting emojis made for him?

Fergie has gone on record saying the reason he was not kept at the club was because of an unwillingness by him to allow any player to factor in playing time on their contract.

Nobody has yet to convince me that we should have bought him and that Fergie was wrong so far. Which is worrying.

[–]LeorenthelaPogba 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

well making up things is alright, but doesn't make your arguments any more true.

  • if mou says he was acting as a professional and he had nothing bad to say about his commitment, i'll probably go with his opinion, media making a narrative that memphis tend to party all the time, the same way they do with sterling. you need to be a bit smarter then to believe everything you read.

  • the club changed, under ed we became a marketing monster, if ronaldo was here we would have something similar with him, you think pogba decided to play the emoji on the add boards in the liverpool game?

  • he didn't say that, on record he said that he didn't get along with pogba's agent, you should read his book, off the record there were several players who tried to make him stay: "Ferguson sent me to his house to convince him to stay. He cried, he couldn't sleep. He knew he could become greater than [Patrick] Vieira, but he had decided. "Ferguson also knew Pogba could become very strong, but he couldn't force the issue."

  • nobody will be able to convince you, its too early to tell if he would succeed at united, until now he isn't a failure.

[–]efribble 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

You thought you'd wait a little longer as in you'd wait until he had a bad performance in a big game. Yeah totally not reactionary at all

[–]cheesehead99Martial 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It wasn't even all his fault, he had a bad game or not the best game because we were a man down so he was having to do more than one job.

[–]efribble 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree, sorry should have stated that.

[–]cheesehead99Martial 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's fine i wasn't having a go at you or anything.

[–]VariantC 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Ferguson didn't sell OR release him. He was offered a contract and opted for a better offer from Juve.

[–]danskzwag 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Utd even offered him higher wages IIRC

[–]wsjhqaEric Bantona 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba is not a defensive midfielder ffs...him and Kante are two different types of players. Pogba was great until Herrera was sent off

[–]HighOnNicotineJose Mourinho 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba has a WhoScored rating of 7.74 this season. Third best in the Premier League, 8th best in all of Europe.

He has played 39 games for us this season, most in our team. If he deserves anything, it's a fucking break.

[–]ClownJohnStones 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba initially left due to asking for playing time. Yes, youngsters don't usually do that, but with a player as talented as Pogba, I'd understand why he'd want to play. We played Park and Rafael in midfield against Blackburn for fucks sake, of course he'd believe he was good enough to play.

Also, reactionary.

[–]notorioustunechiZlatan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you judge him on the basis he allegedly asked for a clause in his contract that enables him to be compensated..

First off that's the first I'm hearing of any such thing. I remember he wanted to play more and that was a deciding factor in why he chose to leave and go to Juve. But that is a natural demand of many players. "Why should I sign this contract if I'm not going to play games?" Is a question any player should be asking.

Secondly whilst he hasn't been putting in the performances £89m would expect. Remember he's only 23. Whilst he's blessed with some great physical attributes and skills he's still developing and learning his game. The talent that he has is obvious to every football fan. We weren't buying a 27 year-old CR7.

I agree he can be frustrating at times when he over plays but that will soon work itself out of his game. To compare him to Kante as well is stupid as they're two entirely different players. Have you compared Pogba and Courtois stats from yesterday's game? Kante is a player at the top of his game right now, playing in a team with a formation that suits him down to a tee. Why don't Chelsea give Kante the jobs Pogba is asked to do? [Not saying that Kante wouldn't be successful at us, but if we had him in our team playing how we ask our team to play, would all these worldly stats that he produces for Chelsea and Leicester last year be the same?] You have to remember that Leicester and Chelsea absorb pressure and hit teams on the counter-attack. Kante job to recover the ball to set up the counter-attacks. We don't play like that.

At the end of the day Pogba will come good, he's spent the last four years playing in Italy a completely different league to the Premier League. Games are won and lost in midfield. The games are played at 100mph and you're under constant pressure. He'll come good eventually. If you look at how he's played every game, and with a bit more luck, he'd have double the goals and assists if he hadn't hit the woodwork and Zlatan didn't hit at rut earlier this season. At that point we'd be higher in the league and all this nonsense would be forgotten. Also the amount of games he's played this year and with all the travelling there is going to be times when he's lacklustre. Another asterisk against Kante he's only playing one game a week since last season with Leicester. Pogbas averaging under 3 a week... Not saying Kante won't be able to handle that, but will be interesting next season.

[–]af0teyBlind 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

  1. Fergie wanted to keep him
  2. The idea that haircuts adversely affect your ability to play football is insanity
  3. Arguably Pogba had the better of Kante until the sending off - I mean how much possession did we have 30%?
  4. The idea that he throws in the towel is insanity, I might argue he's shown a propensity to lose his head a bit and if anything try too hard.
  5. People dab get over it.
  6. This is incredibly reactionary.

[–]RyanSorsbyFalcao 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[–]labtecozaFellaini 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Kante and Pogbas stats yesterday were just disgusting in comparison.

You give 1 example

[–]MedievalSorceryMagic Mkhi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lots of holes here. Never compare Kante and Pogba, two different players with different styles. We had 10 men so Pogba had extra work to do in midfield, no surprise he was tired towards the end. We can't blame players not putting chances away on Pogba because by many accounts, Pogba has been great with assists, some were wasted and some were scored. Also, you're forgetting that he is 23 and new to the league. He could easily be one of the very best in the PL by age 25/26, the price-tag has really damaged him because people are expecting waaay too much from him. This season has been more of a project than anything so we will start to see the real player soon.

[–]Ether2001 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Come on now. People are crazy about this. I bet most of the fans who are complaining never actually saw him play with Juve but did see some cool youtube videos and expert the same thing now in a new league in a new position.

He's not even playing in his right position ffs. His best form was during christmas when he was deployed higher on the pitch. He's not a defensive minded player. Put Ronaldo as a winger with defensive responsibilities/wing back and he would be lost too. Pogba played in a world class midfield three at Juve and was able to strive. He have had his beat form when we have played 433.

But we do have a dilemma because Mkhitaryan's best position is probably as a no.10.

Dont home him for the pricetag either. If the price were a problem then criticize the ones who payed.

[–]Iamnotasexrobot 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Listen to what non-reactionary pundits have said about him this season.
Redknapp and Carragher have both spoke about him with a little bit of awe, as well as Souness.

He does have some bad games, but you know what, like Zlatan, in most of his bad games he has still done something amazing at some point; whether that be a perfect over the top ball, a crazy 60 yard flat play switching pass and his skill is without question.

He needs to mature a little bit and get some better players around him then we will see his best.

[–]United689908 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are in no position to let something slide or otherwise. You are just a fan of a football club. It doesn't matter how much you pay for your Sky subscription or season ticket, all that does is give you the right to watch two football teams do their best to beat each other. It doesn't give you the right to govern a players personal life or a right to expect a certain level of performance.

If you can't accept that then maybe you should stop watching.