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What Physics Can and Can't Say About God

April 29, 2013, 7:30 AM
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One of the things that has been going on in contemporary physics for the last really 15 or 20 years is that physicists seem to be in some sense trying to present an alternative to God.  We all know Stephen Hawking’s famous line from the end of A Brief History of Time that when we know this theory of everything, when we find this cosmic blueprint, we will know the mind of God.  
Now I think this is a bit problematic myself and I think it relates to a misunderstanding about what the function of God is. In the Judeo-Christian conception of God, at least, God has two functions.  One was to be the creator of the universe and one was to be the redeemer of man. As creator of the universe God has to construct the universe somehow. The philosophy behind modern mathematical physics is that God in some sense created the world according to mathematical equations. So when we find this ultimate set of equations we will in some sense be knowing the mind of God, reading the mind of God, seeing how God did it.
Well that may possibly be so, but the problem that you have is what about the redemptive function of God?  For most Christians anyway, God’s real and important function was not to bring the universe into being, but to be there as the redeemer of our souls at the end of time. So physics has nothing to say about the redemptive function of God.
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So I think it’s actually in some sense wrong to claim that physics can ever lead us to God.  It can lead us to a conception of how the universe potentially came into being, but it’s never going to say anything about what is important to most Christians about their faith and about their relationship with God, which is they want to know about how at the end of time they will, as it were, be united with God as a thinking, emoting, moral being. On that subject physics really cannot offer us any insight.
So I've argued in quite a number of places, including my book Pythagoras' Trousers that we shouldn’t be talking about physics in these quasi-religious terms.  I think that it gives a misleading picture of what physics can do and I think that to a certain extent using God has been as it were a bit of a PR campaign to try to get people into the project of hugely expensive machines like the Superconducting Super Collider that cost vast amounts of money.
I think part of the reason that physicists have used God, the word God so much is to try to as it were make this quest to understand the theory of everything seem so important that we have to spend tens of billions of dollars. My view is that if it’s worth spending tens of billions of dollars on we need to have the discussion openly as a society and not as it were illicitly use God as our mascot.  I don’t think God can or should be the mascot for physics, but with that said, I think physics is a valuable and wonderful project and we should talk about, as a society, how we want to pursue it. 
In Their Own Words is recorded by experts in Big Think's studio.
Image courtesy of Shutterstock. 
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  • James Redford

    Hi, Margaret Wertheim. Actually, standard physics has a great deal to say about the redemptive function of God. The known laws of physics mathematically require that the universe end in the Omega Point: the final cosmological singularity and state of infinite informational capacity having all the unique properties traditionally claimed for God, and of which is a different aspect of the Big Bang initial singularity, i.e., the first cause.
    And given an infinite amount of computational resources, recreating the exact quantum state of our present universe is trivial (per the Bekenstein Bound), requiring at most a mere 10^123 bits (the number which Roger Penrose calculated), or at most a mere 2^10^123 bits for every different quantum configuration of the universe logically possible (i.e., the powerset, of which the multiverse in its entirety at this point in universal history is a subset of this powerset). So the Omega Point will be able to resurrect us using merely an infinitesimally small amount of total computational resources: indeed, the multiversal resurrection will occur between 10^-10^10 and 10^-10^123 seconds before the Omega Point is reached, as the computational capacity of the universe at that stage will be great enough that doing so will require only a trivial amount of total computational resources.
    For much more on the above, see my following article on physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point cosmology, which is a proof (i.e., mathematical theorem) of God's existence per the known laws of physics (viz., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics), and the Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE), which is also required by said known physical laws. The Omega Point cosmology has been published and extensively peer-reviewed in leading physics journals.
    James Redford, "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), Sept. 10, 2012 (orig. pub. Dec. 19, 2011), 186 pp., doi:10.2139/ssrn.1974708.

  • devtheron

    i agree. Whatever imagination allow, is what originate from the singularity. God exceed the parameters of imagination. He had placed our soul into this vessel of consciousness, and we are here to experience life. It is a choice, and it is a spiritual journey that will enrich your soul. at the end, nothing really matters. It is all about what we choose, and how we grow through the love of God. God gave us understanding. How can I understand, yet, others choose not to?
    life is like a game of chess. It is simple. chess is all about the protection of the king, and the potential of the pawn! all the other pieces and space, is just to create chaos. It is from this chaos, that the opponent gain a chance to win, if not, white will always win.
    as a Christian, i use the talent that God had given me. I can use my imagination, not because He want to limit my understanding, but because He know, that I will find Him around every corner of it:)
    I cannot limit my understanding to not knowing, not believing, not to be brave,and to waste a life of hiding the truth under my bed. The light cannot be hidden within your imagination. If it is there, you know about it, else, why do you deny?
    I read my Bible with my imagination, and the message of God had opened itself, because i don't limit my understanding to what others want me to believe. If God had created me with an imagination, then this is how we will meet. This is where i rest my soul. and this is what i know:)

  • Heidi Whitney

    Thank you! The redemptive nature of God needed to be brought to the discussion. Quantum physics is an amazing a beautiful discipline, but it doesn't have all the answers. It brings out some dang good questions. But it can't address God's saving power.

  • Kirk

    I think the scientific alternative to redemption is death, complete and final. Your body decomposes and the universe recycles you. Individual redemption is in the dirt.

  • Mary Valentic

    When you realize that the brain is quantumly entangled and we are one with a conscious and I submit, loving multiverse, you will realize that physics does not lead us to God, it confirms the presence of God.

  • Stop talking to an empty sky.

    Interesting perspective but I think you fail to grasp that one
    of the more interesting benefits of science is to expose any of this planets organised religions as total nonsense. If we have learned anything from our increasing knowledge of the universe, it’s that mankind is little more than a spec on a grain of sand (the universe being all the beaches in the world).
    With this in mind, the arrogant and primitive presumption that we are “special” and that some omnipotent being is going to give us a cuddle at the end of time is symptomatic of the common theme of all religious persuasions.That is to say “Men” invented “God” or “Gods” to fill in the blanks in our knowledge and make sense of a reality we did not (and still do not) fullyunderstand, and also to help us cope with the finality of death.
    I just can’t wait for us to find life on another planet and debunk this mumbo jumbo once and for all. Oh no hang on they will just claim “god made that too”, in a prime example of the convenience based position switching Christianity in particular has excelled at over the last few century’s.
    Science deals in fact. Religions deal in superstitions and doctrine
    passed down from one generation to the next.
    Your article is actually misleading and tends to suggest Mr Hawking believes in God, rather than him just using the word to put across an abstract point.
    Allow me to quote him and his view point correctly ……
    Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/scie...
    - Read the full interview for yourself.

  • Paddy Bardic

    "I just can't wait for us to find life on another planet and debunk this mumbo jumbo once and for all. Oh no hang on they will just claim 'God made that too', in a prime example of convenience based position switching Christianity in particular has excelled at over the last few century's."
    The Christian faith, since that is the one you singled out, has been under a continuing process of evolution for the last two thousand years and it will continue with its evolution until humanity is destroyed. You would rather Christians deny science because it would make you feel intellectually superior, but the simply fact is this: as science makes new discoveries about the universe, the faith must also adapt to suit those.
    How would finding life on other planets disprove Christianity? Not pretending to understand the mind of God, but if I were an infinite being, why would I stop at just one sentient species? The Bible clearly states that God created the angels (a species of creature much different from humans), so the precedent is already set. I can't forsee any possible reason why He would set an ENORMOUS universe into motion, if not to fill it with his creations.

  • RonRagusa

    "If we have learned anything from our increasing knowledge of the universe, it’s that mankind is little more than a spec on a grain of sand (the universe being all the beaches in the world). With this in mind, the arrogant and primitive presumption that we are “special”..."
    As far as we know, we're the only beings in the universe that are capable of looking out upon it and pondering the whys and wherefores of its, and by extension, our own existence. In that sense, humanity is very special.
    You could counter that there are probably other beings in the universe that have the ability to exhibit the same behavior. However, in the light of current knowledge that argument is little more than a religious-like leap of faith. Until the existence of another thinking life form is confirmed we continue to occupy a place in the universe that is both unique and decidedly special.
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  • James Redford • 3 minutes ago
    Hi, Margaret Wertheim. Actually, standard physics has a great deal to say about the redemptive function of God. The known laws of physics mathematically require that the universe end in the Omega Point: the final cosmological singularity and state of infinite informational capacity having all the unique properties traditionally claimed for God, and of which is a different aspect of the Big Bang initial singularity, i.e., the first cause.
    And given an infinite amount of computational resources, recreating the exact quantum state of our present universe is trivial (per the Bekenstein Bound), requiring at most a mere 10^123 bits (the number which Roger Penrose calculated), or at most a mere 2^10^123 bits for every different quantum configuration of the universe logically possible (i.e., the powerset, of which the multiverse in its entirety at this point in universal history is a subset of this powerset). So the Omega Point will be able to resurrect us using merely an infinitesimally small amount of total computational resources: indeed, the multiversal resurrection will occur between 10^-10^10 and 10^-10^123 seconds before the Omega Point is reached, as the computational capacity of the universe at that stage will be great enough that doing so will require only a trivial amount of total computational resources.
    For much more on the above, see my following article on physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point cosmology, which is a proof (i.e., mathematical theorem) of God's existence per the known laws of physics (viz., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics), and the Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE), which is also required by said known physical laws. The Omega Point cosmology has been published and extensively peer-reviewed in leading physics journals.
    James Redford, "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), Sept. 10, 2012 (orig. pub. Dec. 19, 2011), 186 pp., doi:10.2139/ssrn.1974708.
    see more
  • devtheron • 2 months ago
    i agree. Whatever imagination allow, is what originate from the singularity. God exceed the parameters of imagination. He had placed our soul into this vessel of consciousness, and we are here to experience life. It is a choice, and it is a spiritual journey that will enrich your soul. at the end, nothing really matters. It is all about what we choose, and how we grow through the love of God. God gave us understanding. How can I understand, yet, others choose not to?
    life is like a game of chess. It is simple. chess is all about the protection of the king, and the potential of the pawn! all the other pieces and space, is just to create chaos. It is from this chaos, that the opponent gain a chance to win, if not, white will always win.
    as a Christian, i use the talent that God had given me. I can use my imagination, not because He want to limit my understanding, but because He know, that I will find Him around every corner of it:)
    I cannot limit my understanding to not knowing, not believing, not to be brave,and to waste a life of hiding the truth under my bed. The light cannot be hidden within your imagination. If it is there, you know about it, else, why do you deny?
    I read my Bible with my imagination, and the message of God had opened itself, because i don't limit my understanding to what others want me to believe. If God had created me with an imagination, then this is how we will meet. This is where i rest my soul. and this is what i know:)
    see more
  • Heidi Whitney • 2 months ago
    Thank you! The redemptive nature of God needed to be brought to the discussion. Quantum physics is an amazing a beautiful discipline, but it doesn't have all the answers. It brings out some dang good questions. But it can't address God's saving power.
    see more
  • Avatar
    Kirk • 2 months ago
    I think the scientific alternative to redemption is death, complete and final. Your body decomposes and the universe recycles you. Individual redemption is in the dirt.
    see more
  • Mary Valentic • 2 months ago
    When you realize that the brain is quantumly entangled and we are one with a conscious and I submit, loving multiverse, you will realize that physics does not lead us to God, it confirms the presence of God.
    see more
  • Avatar
    Stop talking to an empty sky. • 2 months ago
    Interesting perspective but I think you fail to grasp that one
    of the more interesting benefits of science is to expose any of this planets organised religions as total nonsense. If we have learned anything from our increasing knowledge of the universe, it’s that mankind is little more than a spec on a grain of sand (the universe being all the beaches in the world).
    With this in mind, the arrogant and primitive presumption that we are “special” and that some omnipotent being is going to give us a cuddle at the end of time is symptomatic of the common theme of all religious persuasions.That is to say “Men” invented “God” or “Gods” to fill in the blanks in our knowledge and make sense of a reality we did not (and still do not) fullyunderstand, and also to help us cope with the finality of death.
    I just can’t wait for us to find life on another planet and debunk this mumbo jumbo once and for all. Oh no hang on they will just claim “god made that too”, in a prime example of the convenience based position switching Christianity in particular has excelled at over the last few century’s.
    Science deals in fact. Religions deal in superstitions and doctrine
    passed down from one generation to the next.
    Your article is actually misleading and tends to suggest Mr Hawking believes in God, rather than him just using the word to put across an abstract point.
    Allow me to quote him and his view point correctly ……
    Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/scie...
    - Read the full interview for yourself.
    see more
    • Paddy Bardic > Stop talking to an empty sky. • 2 months ago
      "I just can't wait for us to find life on another planet and debunk this mumbo jumbo once and for all. Oh no hang on they will just claim 'God made that too', in a prime example of convenience based position switching Christianity in particular has excelled at over the last few century's."
      The Christian faith, since that is the one you singled out, has been under a continuing process of evolution for the last two thousand years and it will continue with its evolution until humanity is destroyed. You would rather Christians deny science because it would make you feel intellectually superior, but the simply fact is this: as science makes new discoveries about the universe, the faith must also adapt to suit those.
      How would finding life on other planets disprove Christianity? Not pretending to understand the mind of God, but if I were an infinite being, why would I stop at just one sentient species? The Bible clearly states that God created the angels (a species of creature much different from humans), so the precedent is already set. I can't forsee any possible reason why He would set an ENORMOUS universe into motion, if not to fill it with his creations.
      see more
    • RonRagusa > Stop talking to an empty sky. • 2 months ago
      "If we have learned anything from our increasing knowledge of the universe, it’s that mankind is little more than a spec on a grain of sand (the universe being all the beaches in the world). With this in mind, the arrogant and primitive presumption that we are “special”..."
      As far as we know, we're the only beings in the universe that are capable of looking out upon it and pondering the whys and wherefores of its, and by extension, our own existence. In that sense, humanity is very special.
      You could counter that there are probably other beings in the universe that have the ability to exhibit the same behavior. However, in the light of current knowledge that argument is little more than a religious-like leap of faith. Until the existence of another thinking life form is confirmed we continue to occupy a place in the universe that is both unique and decidedly special.
      see more

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