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Racist chanting direct at Park Ji-Sung (self.reddevils)

szehiannn が 投稿

I was reading a post on r/soccer regarding the racist chanting directed at Son Heung-Min, where Millwall fans chanted "DVD" and "three for a fiver" whenever he got the ball. This, obviously, made me feel disgusted.

However, what surprised me was a few users who mentioned that Spurs and United fans used to chant about their South Korean players eating dogs (which is just as bad as the chants sung by the Millwall fans, if not worse). I found a link elaborating more on this phenomenon and racism against Koreans in general here. I'm not trying to stir anything up, but when I read about this, I was genuinely disappointed. To me, these chants are clearly stereotyping against Koreans and their perceived behaviour. Just wanted to know if anyone could share their opinions on this? Was the chant sung by a minority or was it very common? This topic is quite controversial, but I think it's hugely relevant given how the modern game's been trying to stand up to racism.

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[–]DropItLikeItsHotBear 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"DVDs" and "three for a fiver" are comments based on stereotypes. "You eat dogs in your own country" is a comment based on fact. One is intended to offend, the other is not. One minimizes the target to a stereotype, the other does not. It's probably not something Koreans like to broadcast - that people in their B country eat dog - but it's hardly the same as saying you must sell DVDs because you're Asian. I'm Korean, and I originally cringed when hearing the Park chant, but I'm not quite sure that it's racist. It isn't politically correct, that's for sure, but I'm not sure it comes from a belief that white people are superior to Asians (which would make it racist).

[–]AttackClown 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Our Park chant was meant to be more of an insult to scousers

"Park, Park wherever you may be, you eat dog in your home country, could be worse, could be scouse, eating rats in your council house".

[–]ManHathawaythe man 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But this chant doesn't really say anything good about Park, it just makes Liverpool look bad which is what confuses people, especially from other cultures.

[–]szehiannn[S] -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

fair enough, then again, "could be worse" kinda shows there's a negative connotation towards the practices of other culture. it's bad that you're eating dog meat, but it could be worse, at least you're not scouse. I may be nitpicking a bit, but I don't think it's a particularly nice chant.

1) It's stereotypical. Don't compare fish and chips to dog meat. Yes, dog meat was consumed in the past, but it's not as widespread as fish and chips. In fact, while it is still consumed now, its consumed way way less than fish and chips in England. When I think of an equivalent to fish and chips, I think of dishes like Bibimbap, not dog meat. (I'm not even Korean)

2) Again regarding my point in the first paragraph, it appears as if a particular practice is being looked down upon. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, the fact that the chant had a negative connotation makes me feel uncomfortable.

But then again, I don't think United fans were being intentionally racist. Perhaps their intention was to draw references to Park's culture and add some humour to the chant. I do think it's slightly ignorant/backward though.

[–]jp-dizzleDeutscher Fußballmeister 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I bet you're really fun at parties

[–]parton90Football, bloody hell! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get your grievances but you're looking for political correctness on football terraces and it's just not there, given the chance football fans will take the piss out of anything they can. I don't think United fans (by and large anyway) are racist, I've been going to games for 15+ years and never seen racist behaviour from our fans, that's not to say it doesn't happen granted.

[–]myxo123 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

That article is ridiculously biased, almost like it came from North Korea not South.

It is also very likely that match fixing did occur at the South Korean World Cup.

And Koreans do eat dogs, that's not a stereotype it's a fact just like us eating Fish and Chips. Pointing that out isn't racism, because it actually happens and is extremely widespread in Korea.

I personally didn't like or participate in the Park song (the bigger offence in that song is actually the classism towards Liverpool fans) but it's more finding humour in cultural differences than monkey noise style racism.

Racism I'm sure exists against oriental people in the UK (because certain retards are racist towards anyone who isn't white) but compared to against Pakistani/Indian people, Eastern Europeans or Black people it's much less common.

[–]anzhitDe Gea 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I lived in Seoul for 3 months , didn't see anyone eating /selling dogs

[–]Reflex2011 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What was so biased in that article? I think it's pretty fair tbh.

Racism I'm sure exists against oriental people in the UK (because certain retards are racist towards anyone who isn't white) but compared to against Pakistani/Indian people, Eastern Europeans or Black people it's much less common.

I agree Pakistani/Indian or anyone that might look Muslim get it by far the worst in England it's not even close in 2017, but East Asians get it just as much as Black people.

[–]myxo123 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can only speak to my own experience but unlike Black or Eastern European people East Asians are never negatively stereotyped as criminals, lazy, benefit scrounging types.

You do occasionally get people making comments about their narrower eyes but the only stereotypes of their character that I've come across is that they're all really smart and hard working.

What was so biased in that article? I think it's pretty fair tbh.

The idea that there was no foul play in 2002? That people were just mad that Asians could beat Europeans? That's nonsense, they were mad because they kept winning by cheating and atrocious (and likely bent referreeing).

That the press play down the achievement of Asian players, which really isn't true, they play down the achievements of anyone who isn't English/British and Asians are no more a victim of that than Africans, Spaniards or Frenchmen.

[–]husaini___ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Get out of here. Fxking prick

[–]husaini___ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Get out of here. Fxking prick

[–]DropItLikeItsHotBear -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's arguably misleading to say that "Koreans eat dogs" because that suggests it is commonplace and widespread. It isn't. If you want to find a place that serves dog, you need to seek it out. It's not like you can just pop into the shop on the corner and get some dog legs for dinner or dog ribs at a takeaway. It's probably more accurate to say that dog can be eaten in Korea. Comparing dog in Korea to fish and chips in the UK is like comparing horse in France to cheeseburgers in the U.S.

And pardon me, but classism is no way more harmful than racism. The whole problem with racism is that a person can't change their race as it is an immutable characteristic that one cannot do anything about. Classism, on the other hand, while offensive and of course harmful, is not based on a characteristic such as race or gender or handicap, and therefore discrimination on that basis is permitted while discrimination on the aforementioned characteristics is not. If someone insults me because I am poor, I can work on that and improve my life. But if someone insults me because I am Korean, well, there ain't nothing I can do about that. Growing up, discrimination based on my race always hurt more than discrimination based on my class. I always knew I would work hard and elevate myself from being poor, but there wasn't anything I could do about my race. I couldn't hide my race or cover it up. My class though, well, in most cases people had no clue by just looking at me. The significance of that is that people could easily discriminate against me based on my race, but not my class.

I'm pretty sure it isn't as taboo in the UK, but in the U.S., it isn't acceptable to refer to Asians as "oriental" as it objectifies them. Rugs are "oriental," but people aren't, and the term pushes aside the significant cultural differences between various Asians. Given that you're in the UK, I have to respect the differences between your culture and mine, but I just thought I'd let you know.

[–]popcornelephantMartial 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd say horse in France is quite easy to get a hold of. It's on display at the butchers quite a lot from my experience.

[–]ManHathawaythe man 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

While it is true that dog is enjoyed and had been quite popular in the past, it is definitely not widespread. Dog butchers were still around in France during the early 90's. Although it is stating a fact, it can also be said that some may have decided not to use that line in a chant because of the obvious negativity perceived in society. Just an extra thought like "If this was chanted about me, it probably wouldn't be my favourite".

[–]myxo123 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

If I as an Englishman went to play in Japan, South Korea or somewhere where an English player is really uncommon I'm sure they'd have a chant for me based around me being English and some stereotype relating to it.

I wouldn't really consider that racist because there's no implicit negative connotation involved.

[–]Dunkaegon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unless you are Korean or have lived there or experienced Korean culture in some form, you shouldn't be the judge of whether or not a stereotype like the one above has pejorative connotations or not.

[–]ManHathawaythe man -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's fine that you don't consider it offensive. What you are going off though is a complete assumption with not much experience or knowledge in the other cultures. Asian cultures hold respect as one of the most important aspects especially when dealing with other people. Why put out something that can be perceived so negatively when a more positively viewed chant can be sung?

[–]myxo123 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why put out something that can be perceived so negatively when a more positively viewed chant can be sung?

If you're saying that then it's you who doesn't understand English culture.

There is a difference between being ignorant or insensitive to other cultures and racism.

[–]ManHathawaythe man -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You've pretty much described racism

[–]myxo123 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't be a fucking idiot.

If I go to Korean/Japan and spend all my time making eye contact with people, or if I find it weird they eat dogs, or a bunch of other similar things that isn't racism.

Not everyone is super educated and enlightened into the nuances of different cultures and not knowing that and acting insensitively to it as a result doesn't make you a racist.

If some shitty sit com makes a joke about Indians and Cows, Jews and eating Pork etc.. that's not racism (it's not really funny either (or accurate in the case of Cows/Indians) but that's another issue) it's trying to find humour in cultural differences.

Racism is I treat people of X race differently than Y, I have certain pre conceived notions of how X race will behave the Y, I think X race are capable of different things than Y, I don't like X race having relations with Y, I think people of X race should be employed over Y.

And so on.

[–]DropItLikeItsHotBear -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hypothetically, let's say given the chance, you're less likely to insult Person A than you are Person B. Let's also say that the only difference between Person A and Person B is that Person A is white while Person B is Korean. One might infer that you are racist towards Koreans because you don't hold the same kind of respect for them as you do whites. That's racism. Racism need not be overt, and can be subtle and often is.