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all 73 comments
[–]shakepear 60 points61 points62 points  (6 children)
Reza Aslan
Enough said.
[–]not_creative1 60 points61 points62 points  (4 children)
Exactly.
That guy gets pounded by American media about Islam everytime there is some kind of an attack. Now he is on a mission to show them rest of the world is bad too and somehow justify shitty parts of Islam.
He picked the worst of the worst customs in Hinduism, which is practiced by few thousand out of 1+ billion people. And that too these people aren't hurting anyone. They are doing their weird customs in their own space. Why bother? Will he show the rampant pedophilia, slavery, killing homosexuals and other outrageous crimes which is mainstream in Islamic countries? No he won't.
The fundamental point is, there have been multiple surveys which show huge parts of the Muslim world is sympathetic to beheadings and ISIS which he cannot deal with. There are 100s of millions of muslims who support that shit, even if they don't do it themselves. This guy is fraud.
Every religion has bad parts but most religions have moved on, embraced modern morality where as lots of people in one particular religion have not. Instead of making religious leaders of that religion come out agains violence and bringing about reform in that religion, he is pulling this shit
[–]na09[S] 24 points25 points26 points  (2 children)
Hated him since his debate with Sam Harris
[–]MeManoosIndia 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Link?
[–]GravitationalWaveKarnataka 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
(Sorry for the potato quality video.)
[–]bhalladeva 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
Couldn't agree more. Total fraud of a person pretending as a scholar. His arguments are pathetic and disgusting to say the least.
[–]GravitationalWaveKarnataka 31 points32 points33 points  (0 children)
Reza Aslan = Dhongi Baba
(in the said show and also n real life)
[–]TejasaK 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
lol Aghoris are probably less than 1% of the population, besides Hinduism is an umbrella for various sects.
[–]prophetofthepimpsIndia 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
1% is over estimating it by a wide fucking margin.
[–]ribiyVadra Lao Desh Bachao 13 points14 points15 points  (1 child)
This is super. Top kek
"Aghori ki maa ko chodun, aur jyada bola to tumahari gardan hi kaat kar khaoonga" (Fuck aghoris and if you speak too much I am gonna slit your neck and eat you)
...and Aslan shits in his pants. WTF did he think going to these naga babas. If there is more of this, I will pay to watch.
[–]thisisshantzz 17 points18 points19 points  (1 child)
I haven't opened this article. Is Rajan Zed's name in there?
[–]TenBlueBirds 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
No, but Shalabh Kumar's name is in there.
[–]lolwatrollwaHaryana 24 points25 points26 points  (1 child)
The two idiots here:
  1. Reza Aslan - for flogging a done-to-death topic
  2. Shalabh Kumar - for making a big deal out of it
[–]na09[S] 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Well put
[–]Eric_Cartman-_-I'm Fat But You're Ugly... I Can Diet 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
this thread should be on r/worldnews
[–][deleted]  (3 children)
[removed]
    [–]samacharbot2 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    A number of Hindu Americans were up in arms against CNN for airing Believer with Reza Aslan which they alleged portrays Hinduism in a negative light
    • The CNN show Believer with Reza Aslan explores the facts and myths behind the Aghori, a mystical Hindu sect known for their extreme rituals.
    • The show explores the facts and myths behind the Aghori, a mystical Hindu sect known for extreme rituals.
    • In a tweet, Kumar said, Hinduism has been attacked because a large number of Hindu Americans supported Trump during the election campaign. I condemn @rezaaslan, CNN for airing Believer with fiction.
    • CNNs Believer with Reza Aslan show promotes xenophobia and Hinduphobia, alleged Ajay Shah of American Hindus Against Defamation.
    I'm a bot | OP can reply with "delete" to remove | Message Creator | Source | Did I just break? See how you can help! Visit the source and check out the Readme
    [–]The_lost_Karma 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    sub biblebelt channels
    [–]Xerxesatg1 5 points6 points7 points  (3 children)
    If what he shows is the truth and he clarifies it is only practiced by a few, how is it problematic . Just another day for Indians and their victim complex
    [–]libed 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
    only practiced by a few
    Oh but let someone point out that all peaceful people follow same philosophy as extremists and somehow it is phobia? What trump is doing to ban peaceful people from USA is right but let us not allow truth to get into our way at that time.
    [–]Xerxesatg1 -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
    One of the most stupid analogies I've read in this sub. Congrats
    [–]AtharvanAfrica 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
    are you feeling victimized too by his comment ?
    [–]MrJekyllMadhya Pradesh 5 points6 points7 points  (19 children)
    Can these internet Hindus stop getting embarrassed by facts.
    Aghoris are just as hindus are them, their rituals/practices are just as Hindu as them. Get used to it & accept how diverse hinduism is !
    PS: Oh, that guy who thinks hindu holy books are stupid & hindu gods are stupid myths, he too is just as hindu as other hindus.
    [–]psychedlic_breakfast 14 points15 points16 points  (2 children)
    Nobody is saying the aghoris are not Hindus like a certain group do with their fanatics(not implying aghoris are fanatics, no matter how crazy their lifestyle is, they are not hurting anybody).
    Aslan, who goes around giving lectures on how the negative portrayal of Islam in the media has created a problem for Muslims, how western media take a "tiny negative aspect" of Islam and present to its western audience as its a norm, and here we have Aslan doing the exact same thing with Hinduism. Of all the sects he could have explored, he chose Aghoris to present to his audience. I don't think it's out of innocence, he clearly knew what he was doing. He knew the consequences of his reporting. He is fake and hypocrite just like the news channel he works for. He is just another Islamists hiding behind the guise of liberalism.
    [–]pravdaman 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
    I'd wait for the actual show before making that judgment. Maybe he's just showing how different beliefs have these extreme interpretations which seem odd to us. Aghoris aren't going around the world blowing buildings up. There is no fear of an Aghori form of Hinduism taking over young minds.
    [–]psychedlic_breakfast 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
    Keep waiting and while you are at it, also wait for a Tooth fairy to appear before you. But don't get upset when rest of the world start stereotyping Indians for being cannibals and savages like they do now for being rapist and street shitters.
    [–]horrificmedium 1 point2 points3 points  (15 children)
    This. 100%. As a Hindu from a GSK and RSS family, it's amazing to see the level of hypocrisy in so many Hindus. The top upvoted commentors have literally no idea how diverse Hinduism is. We have to own our shortcomings, and some of our shittier customs.
    Like, for example women not being allowed in the temple of their periods. What the fuck in a modern context is that all about? So many of our rituals are outdated. The Hindutva movement, and other thug groups like Shiv Sena acting as a 'moral police' in the name of Hinduism are a fucking embarrassment. Yet a lot of you middle-class folk would rather ignore and disown them, while you're safe in your cities and gated communities - after all, it only affects poor people who have to take the bus.
    Caste is still a thing, ffs - social mobility in India is non-existent and completely affected by your religion and birth.
    I was brought up to understand Hinduism was the embodiment of compassion, knowledge and pragmatism, through countless millennia of learning. The Buddha started a quiet revolution against the ritualism that was holding the people back. We need another one to shake the tree.
    Oh, and it was rich Hindus that voted for Trump - because you lot hate Muslims so much, and saw a kindred spirit in him. Well done.
    [–]Monteoas 8 points9 points10 points  (12 children)
    The Buddha started a quiet revolution against the ritualism that was holding the people back.
    Kari na Indian wali baat! The critisim of ritualism /sacrifices started in Upanishadic times. Bhridaryanaka Upanishad ~ 9th century bce then chandogya ~ 8th century and similar principal Upanishads maitrye, Katha, taitrya etc mock them way before even Buddha was born. Or way before even sramana tradition started. Buddha was just a branch of that axial era. You seams those who say Hinduism is 10,000 year old religion, hain? Saala chronology hai hi Nahi koi.
    [–]horrificmedium 0 points1 point2 points  (11 children)
    Thanks mate - care for a translation for the non- Hindi speaker? Konkani or Kannada will do.
    I'll read up on prior criticisms of Hindu ritualisation, thanks for the pointers. I do believe Buddha was a figurehead for the reformation, and obviously he/they wasn't/weren't alone in pushing against social control. True revolutions are slow movements.
    [–]Monteoas 4 points5 points6 points  (6 children)
    Saala chronology hai hi Nahi koi.
    Why don't you respect chronology?
    And the first line is something you don't need to know. Just a slang about Prod Indians sometimes offering their kulcha around without knowing what they are talking!
    [–]horrificmedium 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
    Apologies for the chronological mishap. Angry typing does not make for an exact detailing of Indian theological history.
    Again, having grown up mostly in England - only really coming to India for family, work, my Upanayna and pilgrimages, I've done my best to learn what I can, when I can. It hits me in the chest when I do shabrimala, and still hear the other men on their vrit muttering about Muslims and smoking on the mountain, for example.
    I'm not a fan of hypocrisy, and I don't like how the majority of Indian society doesn't like to take responsibility for its own shortcomings - especially when I was raised being taught it was the greatest nation in the world.
    [–]Monteoas 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
    Sorry I don't find you qualified to talk on this topic if you don't have enough knowledge of what you are talking.
    And now I'll end my shit and will stop triggering you. Apologies. You know that's the problem here. No one wants to know or learn. People just go around with their limited knowledge and post things online, make video, documentary and it influence others. Certainly it will be a post truth in future. The same goes with this CNN documentary at some points. we don't have time to stop and appreciate the literature, just we know enough already so we are qualified to broadcast that's the hard reality today. That's the same with everyone. And Muslims are biggest Victims right now.
    And about rituals l, yeah. That's fucked up. But it's changing slowly overall. In all religions. Let's hope.
    It hits me in the chest when I do shabrimala, and still hear the other men on their vrit muttering about Muslims and smoking on the mountain, for example.
    What's that? I have never been to that part of India so haven't got any clue what are you talking about?
    [–]horrificmedium 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
    Shabrimala is a pilgrimage / mountain in Kerela. Every year, around November-ish to December and around makara sankranti, many people of South India do a dharshan to the Shabrimala temple, accompanied by a 40-day vrit prior to that.
    The vrit involves not drinking, shaving, smoking, avoiding sex, being mindful and not thinking 'impure thoughts'. Also involves dressing in black, blue or purple.
    People who do the full Darshan trek and camp for like 11 days beforehand to lots of smaller temples on the way to the Shabri hills. One of the stops is to a mosque to take prashad and blessings from the imam. When I first saw this I was amazed - and I welled up a little.
    Thankfully my right wing family was there to let me know that it was a recent addition to the pilgrimage (>1000 years), mandated by a Keralan raja - and that 'maapleh' still shouldn't be trusted.
    Anyway, on the ascent of the mountain, there are signs saying 'no smoking' etc. Saw a bunch of people smoking on the way up and down. Even if it's ganja, it's Ayyapah's mountain - a God-prince who was celibate and teetotal. Time and a place for that - usually mahashivrathri.
    Anywho, seriously thanks for taking the time to provide me with scripture. Upanishads aren't known for being SEO friendly, if you don't know what you're looking for :)
    [–]Monteoas 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    Even if it's ganja, it's Ayyapah's mountain - a God-prince who was celibate and teetotal. Time and a place for that - usually mahashivrathri.
    Ah okay! I google that. I think that temple is of shaiv sect. So chillam, ganja, smoking is common practices among ascetic sects of shaivism. You just contradict yourself , when in first comment you said Hinduism is diverse, and now complaining about that. so I think thats what a diversity you were talking about, right? Well, that's a whole different debate if such a practices are moral today or not but its indeed a diversity. ( Again I was triggering you because sometimes we dnt know when we start contradiction ourselves)
    Pro tip: read more, learn more, experience more and talk less. The half of the world problems will be solved. And, ma Brahman! No offence intended. :)
    [–]horrificmedium 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I've got no problems with Cannabis at all - in fact, I'm a cannabis activist in the UK. Is it a contradiction, however, to ask people to respect others views - and the fact it's Ayyapa. The mahashivrathri comment was me being a little facetious - which doesn't really cross cultural borders in terms of typed text.
    I know that my Mallu friends near Kochi wouldn't offer me or my family beef, even though they eat it themselves and still consider themselves Hindu. That's the diversity I talk about - and it's time we accepted that, and took ownership as that throughout the diaspora.
    [–]Monteoas 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
    Rehne de, tujse na ho payega.
    While the hymns of the Vedas emphasize rituals and the Brahmanas serve as a liturgical manual for those Vedic rituals, the spirit of the Upanishads is inherently opposed to ritual.[104] The older Upanishads launch attacks of increasing intensity on the ritual. Anyone who worships a divinity other than the Self is called a domestic animal of the gods in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. The Chāndogya Upanishad parodies those who indulge in the acts of sacrifice by comparing them with a procession of dogs chanting Om! Let's eat. Om! Let's drink.[104]
    The Kaushitaki Upanishad asserts that "external rituals such as Agnihotram offered in the morning and in the evening, must be replaced with inner Agnihotram, the ritual of introspection", and that "not rituals, but knowledge should be one's pursuit".[105] The Mundaka Upanishad declares how man has been called upon, promised benefits for, scared unto and misled into performing sacrifices, oblations and pious works.[106] Mundaka thereafter asserts this is foolish and frail, by those who encourage it and those who follow it, because it makes no difference to man's current life and after-life, it is like blind men leading the blind, it is a mark of conceit and vain knowledge, ignorant inertia like that of children, a futile useless practice.[106][107] The Maitri Upanishad states,[108]
    The performance of all the sacrifices, described in the Maitrayana-Brahmana, is to lead up in the end to a knowledge of Brahman, to prepare a man for meditation. Therefore, let such man, after he has laid those fires,[109] meditate on the Self, to become complete and perfect.

— Maitri Upanishad[110][111]
    do believe Buddha was a figurehead for the reformation, and obviously he/they wasn't/weren't alone in pushing against social control. True revolutions are slow movements.
    ...and you edited your post without updating me. Well, that's what I said Buddha didn't started, Buddha was a branch of that revolution. When vedic Hinduism transformed itself into classical Hinduism during axial era.
    [–]horrificmedium 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Thanks for this! Much of this was what I was taught orally during the period when I was learning my Sandyavandan (ironically), but all the texts were in Kannada and Sanskrit.
    Our family bhatmaam taught me a lot - the parts about empathy and compassion obviously took, but I never had any scripture to back it up - so thank you for that. I'll be referring to this to expand on my learning.
    [–]mirror-onthewall 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    I do believe Buddha was a figurehead for the reformation
    we don't know. that is what marxist historians tell us. that Ashoka was the greatest king and buddhism was the best.
    funny part is Ashoka was discovered by british
    [–]horrificmedium 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    I thought Santosh Sivan discovered Asoka? Also that Raat Ka Nashua was a kinda alright song. Not the greatest, but ya know...
    [–]mp256 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    Like, for example women not being allowed in the temple of their periods. What the fuck in a modern context is that all about? So many of our rituals are outdated
    As per Twitter Hindus, all Hindu rituals (rituals is also not a word allowed as per Twitter Hindus) have a scientific basis, and hence must be followed to T and not questioned.
    [–]charavaka 0 points1 point2 points  (17 children)
    Bhakton, I'm curious, if hinduism is a broad umbrella with a range of beliefs and practices, whats the problem if someone wants to look at aghoris, as long as they don't claim that aghori practices are mainstream?
    [–]dulcoflex 4 points5 points6 points  (10 children)
    I think they were protesting because it was depicted as mainstream. Anyway someone should link to the video, we'll get a good idea.
    [–]charavaka -1 points0 points1 point  (9 children)
    I think they were protesting because it was depicted as mainstream.
    Which part of the article makes you think that? I couldn't find a single line claiming the program depicted aghori practices as being mainstream. If you have an alternative source for that claim, that would be appreciated, too.
    [–]dulcoflex 0 points1 point2 points  (8 children)
    I was speculating. It seems like even the journalist writing the article haven't seen the video.
    [–]charavaka 0 points1 point2 points  (7 children)
    Do you think those protesting had?
    [–]dulcoflex 1 point2 points3 points  (6 children)
    they probably did.
    [–]charavaka 1 point2 points3 points  (5 children)
    I was speculating.
    they probably did.
    I see that you like to speculate a lot. Do you think those who protested satanic verses and got it banned had read the book? Or how about the book on Shivaji? You think the idiots who burned down BHORI bothered reading it before destroying valuable archives?
    [–]dulcoflex 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
    Ask them maybe? I do think though that people would take time to see a 30-60 minutes documentary rather than read a book that would take 8+ hours.
    [–]charavaka 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
    Ask them maybe?
    You didn't feel the need to do the same for this case. As for the time required, should I list the movies that got shut down by bigots?
    [–]dulcoflex 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    You can list if you want to.
    My assumption was based on simple logic, admittedly it's possible that no-one saw the documentary .
    [–]Monteoas 5 points6 points7 points  (4 children)
    Don't know about those who complain it, the so called Hindu American association. And what do they think. Probably they are the guys who probably never give the notion (at least in their land I. E America) that Hinduism is not a religion but an umbrella term. Because they are surrounded by strict or slightly notso strict monotheistic society (from religion p. O. V) so I think they also feel the kulcha that they should also treat Hinduism as others treat their religions. Either way, it's not a thing in India. Aghora is widely respected and highly favored sect in the pockets of India where it is prominent and people (Hindus) don't have any problem with them. They give them utmost respect.
    Anyways, if we talk about CNN's video then it's indeed fucked up. Showing aghora as savages, without talking anything about their philosophy or school of thought is indeed a false truth. I have spent six months among aghoris and have seen their day to day life very closely so I being their fan found this very offensive and indeed misleading. And, one more thing a true aghori never go around saying Oh! I'm an aghora and do documentary on me. And never a true aghora show their ritual practices in front of anyone. (the very serious ones especially) those are just few guys here and there who fool foreigners because foreigners want someone jo unka chutiya kate and they happily provide the services.
    And, BTW, hows Ajita Kesakambali doing nowadays? I thought you guys goes extinct after Buddhism.
    [–]charavaka 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
    The one's complaining are talking about "negative portrayal of hinduism", not that of aghoris. While I appreciate your issues with the show ignoring the philosophy, most practitioners of any religious sect hardly ever bother to find out the philosophy, let alone understand it. So showing the rituals as followed by at least some of the practitioners of any sect is fair game. Lastly CNN is a commercial network, so they never get into nittygritties that only 5 people in their audience can vaguely understand. Which of the other shows on CNN have you seen that have done proper justice to a complex subject matter? So why be thin skinned and start protesting? This line is not directed at you, obviously, but at the crowd pretending their dharam has been insulted because CNN showed aghoris. In your case, I would paraphrase a popular proverb to say, "never attribute falsification where pure incompetence can explain the crappy show."
    As for Kesakambali, the lokayatas lasted for few centuries after buddha, That's why you see references to them, like arthashastra expounding a lot on how to break their resistance to the kingdom.
    In the present day, we're merely acknowledging the fact that we had ancestors that had started thinking along the right lines, about things like evidence, nature of reality etc. and appreciate their forethought, not claiming that is the right philosophy for this day and age. Well, and also crying a little on seeing the whole mahabharat happening with brothers fighting, and then a random caravaka getting burned to death at the end just because.
    [–]Monteoas 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
    Well that's what I said they have never studied Hinduism, in their land, US or west and their such remarks are more or less influenced by others. Which is somewhat obvious because people change over time and change over time and change over time and so..on. that's what we call kulcha. (in this context)
    And about CNN I believe critisim is justified. But that assocation's reaction is also overblown. We are in times when you can't expect anything better from likes of CNN and can't stop the reactions from those associations.
    So why be thin skinned and start protesting?
    Well I know this is not directed at me but I think If CNN doesn't do justice to even a complex matters then this indeed is a good reason to protest.
    In your case, I would paraphrase a popular proverb to say, "never attribute falsification where pure incompetence can explain the crappy show."
    What's that? I couldn't get that. Was that your kulcha speaking? Or you got triggered! I can't make Sense of it.
    And about charvak
    In the present day, we're merely acknowledging
    We are? You guys have registered association? Or something like ashram? Where do you meet? I thought charvak is extinct and not present in today's world/india. Where are you guys? I'm also very interested in charvak, it fascinates me more than perhaps Buddhism at some points. Do you guys got any headquarters?
    [–]charavaka 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    You guys have registered association?
    Nope. At least I'm not part of any such grouping. I was merely referring to a bunch of friends and acquaintances interested in the lokayata philosophy. The philosophy, or to be more precise the followers of the philosophy went extinct centuries ago. If you're interested in the philosophy, I would strongly recommend lokayata by debiprasad chattopadhyay. He wears his marxist leanings on his sleeves, so you can easily separate his marxist interpretations from the data that he's collated for this book.
    [–]Monteoas 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Ah! Charvak + Marx deadly combination ;)
    I'm kinda very prod of charvak school of thought. Anyways, I have basic to intermediate knowledge about them, i've read A.L.Bhasham on charvak so I'm indeed fascinated. Thanx anyways.
    [–]doc_two_thirty -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
    Hinduism is a broad umbrella and a way of life and everyone including atheists are Hindus only when it convenient to the argument.
    [–]aussiegreenie 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    What a deadshit.
    Dickheads like that give India a bad name.
    [–]CaptainThrobvious 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    They have a problem because CNN is doing a program on Aghoris. What a bunch of thin skin chuts.
    [–]Roy_Mustang2 -3 points-2 points-1 points  (3 children)
    I don't like Reza Aslam but negative protrayal my ass. The Hindus idiots who oppose this are morons. Aghoris are part and parcel of Hinduism. They are using their western means of thinking to try interpret the cannibalism and they can't handle it. What these people do is of their own free will. Unless they murder someone to eat them, it ain't my problem and I am a fucking atheist.
    My ancestors used to sacrifice human beings to appease gods, and I am fucking proud of it. These people protesting are the same fucks who ran away from the country to go to Murica and many of them voted for Trump. They deserve whatever Trump is about to unleash on them
    [–]AtharvanAfrica 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
    My ancestors used to sacrifice human beings to appease gods, and I am fucking proud of it.
    WTF ! why would you be proud of this ?
    [–]mirror-onthewall 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    depopulation credits /s :)
    [–]Roy_Mustang2 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    A few of them happened to be British back in the 19th century :)
    Plus think how badass that sounds that your ancestors used to kill people and used their organs for decoration. What did your ancestors do, plough a field?
    [–]sleepless_indianUNESCO CERTIFICATION AGENT -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
    LOL
    [–]disrakras 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Bhai Sahab, pehle CNN ka certification toh cancel karo!
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