全 126 件のコメント

[–]nogodafterall 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (18子コメント)

This is one of those cases where both sides should stop, calm the fuck down, and think about the position of the other side instead of their own.

If you see validity in the position of the other side, address that. After you have addressed the other side's points, then offer your own.

[–]TheAndredal 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

that would imply that mods even listen

[–]YourLostGingerSoul 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But nah.

The point system is stupid as fuck.

Every thread it comes up in it is clear, no one rates topics at the same points as everyone else. The entire thing is arbitrary.

It would be better if the mods just said "If we think your post sucks we will remove it' Rather than this was not soc jus, not gaming , not my blah blah boblaw law blog whatever.

Fucking stop acting like there is a quantitative reason you are justified in removing posts, and just admit your fascist bullshit that you are gonna decide what stands and what doesn't and get on with it. Cause you own this place and we are all just unwanted visitors. Then we can decide how long we are willing to put up with you fucking filtering rules and move on from this stale pointless place.

[–]Zmanwarrior 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My issue with the point system is that it is entirely subjective. What an OP thinks could be "related politics" is not what the next person, be they a mod or someone else, thinks is "related politics." It's creating a shit-ton of unneeded friction.

Personally, I'm for the self-post dealie.

[–]Whenindoubtdo75k get! 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Clusterfuck orgy is tomorrow. Save your load.

[–]RaraaraCancer Mod 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can't wait.

[–]slartitentacles 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But I was just about to fap...

[–]FourthLife 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (21子コメント)

I predict that the mods will say it is a small but vocal group complaining, and that the silent majority loves every change that has ever entered a mod's mind.

[–]HuggableBuddy 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Many people use this sub as a news aggregate website on SJW related issues. Satellite issues are therefore relevant and interesting. Heavy-handed moderation will weed out the satellite issues, lessening the over-all dynamic value of this sub.

Not everyone is exclusively interested in 'gaming' related topics. The 'current affairs' value of this sub needs to be maintained. Instead this sub is now focusing more on Youtube 'talk television' drama. (I could care less about some random nobody prattling for thirty minutes or longer.)

Unrelated politics should be a +2, not a -2, whenever the media once again demonstrates its hypocrisy.

[–]velvetdenim 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honestly just get rid of the points system and let people upvote what they want to see float to the surface. Quality floats, shit sinks.

[–]_pulsar 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's crazy talk. The mods know what is best for us! Do not question their wisdom!

[–]kimlaGGacc 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah i'm pretty sad with the current turn of events, stuff like no politics being voted on by like 5% of the community due to not being up for too long, and other tiny things. At least when mannoslimins was a mod the mods didn't just tell them to message the moderator team where issues go to die and he did get removed.

People here can vote on what they like or don't like, we don't need the nanny mods to give silly points on posts, mods should remove stuff that will get the sub in trouble (doxxing etc) and that's it.

I feel like this sub lost out the most with Trump's election since some butthurt people couldn't handle seeing anything Trump related and cried for a politics ban when there wasn't one before and then more rules and so on.

[–]Twilightdusk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I completely, fundamentally disagree. I really don't like that this has drifted from being a gaming related sub to be an aggregate of general SJW behavior. I would love to see the politics rules much more strictly enforced to prevent non-gaming related content from ending up here.

[–]pat82890 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm a long time lurker, I mostly just browse this subreddit to update on the gaming world. I honestly don't remember when rule 3 was implemented and have never seen that point chart until tonight when it was the center of a controversy. Who decides if a post falls under one of those features? Is it a subjective decision if a post has a certain feature? If its up to a mod's discretion to remove based on those guidelines, then the potential for abuse is very high. All it would take is saying that they do not see a certain post as "x" feature and it could get removed.

Some of the things said by the mods tonight has really soured me to this whole subreddit. From the clique-ish nature of the responses to criticisms, to the "i dont give a fuck about you" attitude most of the mods seemed to adopt all of a sudden.

[–]TheAndredal 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i made a topic about this a month ago, and it was largely ignored by the mods

[–]RicwulfSkip 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Everyone, please understand that the mods have taken up their position because they believe in what this community stands for, and they genuinely want what the rest of us want

I want to make it very clear that I understand that perfectly. That doesn't make them right. And their sheer lack of concern for the community via actually listening to us is the biggest issue with this. They've known about these complaints for over a month, and they ignored it.

Now, others are getting fed up. This could have been prevented.

So yeah, their intentions are good, but so are the intentions of a white supremacist in their warped mind (they think they're helping humanity as a whole). I'm not saying that the mods are supremacists, because I really need to spell that out to people apparently, but rather, they are warped.

Having good intentions doesn't make them correct, nor does it excuse them of their bad behaviour. They know how to fix it, and they won't. The issues were raised before, and it was dismissed. And I will bet that it will be dismissed again until it blows over. Which will then result in this blowing up again, bigger again, and that will be an even bigger problem.

So I'm not going to hug it out with mods that have metaphorically spat on me just because they have good intentions. I'll wait to see some fucking actions happen before anything like that happens. Maybe an apology to the community for them acting like a bunch of asses.

[–]fearghul 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Intentions are nice, but ultimately you've got to judge people on actual actions. Nothing else can be objectively measured, and when it comes to promoting what this community stands for the mods are sucking rancid donkey balls behind the barn rather than doing anything positive...

Of course, I'm sure that's a rule 1 violation or something...

[–]Aurondarklord 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Framing a thread as a call for the firing of a specific mod based on only one incident...or at least only one incident actually listed, in which all that happened was a topic removal, was hyperbolic and absurd.

The mods attempt to shout that anger down with intimidating rules, high-handedness, and threats, however, was shades of 2014. Are you guys that fucking insecure? I get the pressure you guys are under, I love our mods, I think all in all you do a great job, and I'm perfectly willing to give you a mulligan on a bit of drama, we all do it sometimes, but at this point I think you have a responsibility to reassure the community that you realize you are accountable to us (the general us, not individual users) and aren't gonna start clamping down on criticism. The sudden changes to rule 5 must be acknowledged and scrapped, no, this was not what the rule always meant, you twisted its meaning to insulate yourselves. The points system needs a serious rework or to be abandoned entirely, the community had SERIOUS concerns and you barrelled ahead anyway, that needs to be made right, or people will remain on edge and prone to kneejerk.

[–]blionom 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you guys that fucking insecure?

Some of them are tripping out over the miniscule amount of power they're wielding here, of course they're insecure as fuck^^

There's nothing more pathetic than an internet-tough-guy.

[–][削除されました]  (10子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]OzerhThen pull that trigger... For FREEDOM! 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    We must not have read the same thread with over 700 comments and with the top comments being mostly to at least partially critical of the rule change and the way the mods handle criticism of said rule change. All this nonsense about vitriol is a strawman constructed by certain mods as a means of deflecting criticism as they have done for months now. A side certainly lost the argument, but it's not the one you seem to favor.

    [–]_pulsar 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    All this nonsense about vitriol is a strawman constructed by certain mods as a means of deflecting criticism as they have done for months now

    Exactly and we've seen this exact playbook used in many other subs.

    When r/seattle was fracturing the head mod of that sub did the exact same thing. When r/cubs was fracturing, the mods did the exact same thing. Etc, etc.

    [–]KiA423469420One of the cutest asses /u/ExhumedLegume has ever seen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Can you describe this playbook in more detail?

    [–][削除されました]  (6子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]OzerhThen pull that trigger... For FREEDOM! 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Feel free to look at the thread and tell me how that is the case. :)

      [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]OzerhThen pull that trigger... For FREEDOM! 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Oh I see. Yeah, we're about making baseless claims without even bothering to defend them around here. Cheers.

        Edit: Bases into baseless.

        [–]RicwulfSkip 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I like how they deleted their comments. Shows real commitment to their point.

        [–]OzerhThen pull that trigger... For FREEDOM! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It makes me chuckle when people do that.

        [–]OzerhThen pull that trigger... For FREEDOM! 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Edit: Doublepost.

        [–]YosharianWalks around backward with his sword on his hip 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

        He wrote 'Pinkerbelle must go' in the opening statement...

        [–]nogodafterall 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (10子コメント)

        Is saying that a mod should step down a personal attack, or a profession of no confidence in the ability of the mod to perform their duties?

        If I say "President Trump should step down for X reason.", am I guilty of sedition and treason, or am I voicing my opinion regarding why I believe he can't lead properly?

        In the end, being a mod is not something that should be viewed as nobility or absolute. It's a job. A free service. It isn't "supposed" to come with bennies and title.

        Not that I am in the "DEPOSE THE MODS" camp, but a strongly worded "This mod is shit and should step down, and here is why!" is not a personal attack, it's a repudiation of their worthiness to be a mod.

        If a majority of KIA regulars came together and voted that pinker should go, is it a witch hunt or is it democracy?

        Whatever your stance on the validity of the accusation, you should think long and hard before you call a possible democratic vote of no confidence "a witch hunt." It sets a tone you can't walk back from and leaves little room to compromise.

        And those who are calling for pinker's head should list specific examples of what the hell is worth calling for no confidence. Aside from mod laziness in invoking rule 3, and its general open-endedness, I see no reason to impeach any particular mod. Hand is being a bit dickish, but I expect that from him. Some users are also being a bit dickish.

        On an anecdotal note, I've had good interactions with pinker, so I'm personally biased against such a vote. But I admit it should be allowed, as well as criticism in general.

        [–]JonassMkII 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        If I say "President Trump should step down for X reason.", am I guilty of sedition and treason, or am I voicing my opinion regarding why I believe he can't lead properly?

        If I like Trump, it's treason, pure and simple. Get in front of the firing squad.

        If I don't like Trump, then you're simply voicing your opinion on Trump's fitness to lead our country.

        [–]cocopandabear -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        I have many posts removed that I have made to show the mod bias here. Pink had removed some of them. But if its of the right narrative. They dont get pulled for the same rule guidelines. Biased modding is biased modding. Also saw a user get banned for talking about TD jerks using the sub as a bot karma farm.

        It's obvious some shit is going on here. Just check out what accounts post big karma posts here and they never have posted before.

        [–]nogodafterall 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Absent proof, accusing another user of something that violates reddit's rules is being a dickwolf. If the user had actual proof of that, they should submit it to the admins.

        [–]cocopandabear 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Nah. Sorry. You're just a joke if you refuse to acknowledge the possibility. KIA isn't a fucking courtroom. I've seen it enough. I just dont waste my time putting archives together.

        [–]nogodafterall 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        You're just a joke if you refuse to acknowledge the possibility.

        I acknowledge the possibility, but possibility is not proof, and accusation absent proof is dickwolvery.

        If you make the charge that a user or group of users are committing a violation of the TOS, it's on you to provide proof. And that's also something that should be given to the reddit admins, not bandied around on KIA as if we have a responsibility to do something about it.

        It's a clear violation of the "Not your personal army" rule. If you have a hatchet to sharpen against the god emperor's subreddit, then do it without calls for hatcheting.

        [–]TheAndredal 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Everyone, please understand that the mods have taken up their position because they believe in what this community stands for, and they genuinely want what the rest of us want---So much so that they're willing to paint a target on their backs by being moderators. With SJWs the way they are, being a moderator is much more risky than being a mere user. Beyond that, there's much more hassle, much more stress, much more crap to deal with----Every day they put up with crap from all sides... From genuine community members, from concern trolls, from genuine SJWs. It's only natural and expected that they would not respond well to direct attacks on members of their team. But mods, please understand that the community is very nervous of power grabs, very suspicious of anything that looks like a hostile takeover. They've seen community after community they once loved be twisted, warped, and ravaged by over-bearing moderators with personal agendas. Please be aware of that, and please be more tactful in your revisions to rules.

        Still not an excuse, they have their own rules and are now threatening to ban people who "witch hunt" the mods. It is unacceptable and the reason i stopped coming here. I talked about this a month ago, where was everyone then? Nobody wanted these rules and they just made them anyways. They don't care about us, they just want to make their own rules in this community. Actions speak louder than words, i don't give a fuck what they say, their actions do!

        [–]MilkaC0w 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I'm not active for too long on this sub, mostly just read occasionally before, but this whole Rule 3 drama lately is annoying as hell. I want to use this sub because of what it is about and I don't want to read about people complaining about this rule all the time.

        Rule 3 in my opinion does two things:

        It shifts and distributes the burden more. Without such a rule, the mods would have to prove each time why they banned a post. With the rule, it means that the creator of a thread has to show why this is a fitting post. Considering that usually mods have to check multiple posts a day, but users rarely post that much, I think such a redistribution is fine and fair. It you actually care about the topic, you can easily put in the 30 seconds.

        It makes it absolutely clear what is acceptable and what not. If you yourself cannot even show why your post is fitting, then most likely it's not. Yet if you can sufficiently prove that it's fitting then a mod cannot just remove it. So you can be quite sure that your post will not just disappear because a certain mod doesn't like it.

        Whatever, let's see what the discussion tomorrow results in. And the one that's upcoming a week after that. And the one that's upcoming a week after that... and so on.

        [–]Akesgeroth 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        Oh, for fuck's sake...

        1. There doesn't need to be "mediation". Who the fuck do you think upvoted that bullshit? Who wants this community tearing itself apart?

        2. What is needed is clearer wording for the posting guidelines. There's barely any description for what constitutes "related" politics.

        3. People need to stop taking a post's score as evidence that it belongs on the sub. Or any sub for that matter. If there weren't moderators here, I could start spamming porn and it would flood KiA and still get thousands of upvotes, and within a month we'd have morons claiming porn was always KiA material.

        4. There does need to be mod oversight. I think everyone with any experience of how SJWs operate knows they love to infiltrate mod positions and take over communities. But this is fucking ridiculous. Instead of that thread, the OP could easily have communicated with the mod team. Hell, when I checked the comments, not one person had replied to /u/pinkerbelle 's sticky comment to explain why they thought removing the post was wrong. It went straight to witch hunting. So spare me the bullshit "This mod is a tyrant" claim. Mods are people. They make mistakes. Deal with it.

        5. If anything, the posting guidelines are too lenient. There should be a -3 for e-celeb bullshit. I'm tired of hearing about what Milo said while eating his cereal. I'm tired of seeing 5 posts on the front page about barely relevant drama because it involves some semi-famous youtuber. I mean Jesus fucking Christ, we used to refer to drama queens as "Literally Who" to deny them exposure. Now people are making sure to have the name in the post's title.

        6. Stop ruining the sub with your drama. All of you.

        [–]Khar-Selim 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        Who wants this community tearing itself apart?

        The tearing-apart of communities always is done not by people who want to tear the community apart, but by two groups of people who are unwilling to back down without getting their way. Remember the story of Solomon's choice.

        [–]Akesgeroth 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        I also remember how many times aGGros tried to splinter the Gamergate community. "Divide and conquer".

        [–]Olivedoggy 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        How did they try to do that? Down which ideological fault lines?

        [–]Akesgeroth 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        "The mods are stifling free speech, come join us on this OTHER board. And don't participate in their operations, it's all bad anyway."

        2 months later

        "Syke, we've been collecting info on everyone who came here and now we're doxing them. Also, closing the board down."

        [–]Khar-Selim 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        That is true. I was more saying that even in good-faith participation where nobody wants to divide a community, the danger is still present if a situation gets unstable. Honestly, I agree with what you're saying, for the most part, I'm a bit sick of this new 'make a scene' method of responding to moderation, but the mods' getting snippy in the thread comments only exascerbated things. How the upcoming feedback thread is handled by both parties is crucial.

        [–]Dead_Generation 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I was going to post something like this but couldn't think of a way to explain it succinctly. The infighting needs to stop. Any chance of an adult conversation happening is being drowned out by autistic screeching.

        [–]imperialclassdestroy 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        People put too much thought into a message area built for likeminded faggots by likeminded faggots who want some good discussion. All this inter-drama is killing the vibe. Just chill out and post and shoot the shit with people and relax, and if you get pissed off at anything on here or feel like causing shit, user and mod alike, just

        Walk Away From The Screen Like Nigga Close Your Eyes Haha

        [–]TheAndredal 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        if that were true, the discussion you're talking about isn't happening because of the mods

        [–]Jack-BrowserMod 77k Get 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Thank you OP. Putting things into perspective for all sides of the issue and asking for calm discussion is a breath of fresh air. All I can say from my perspective right now is this: had the thread been presented as "R3 is shit" and not "fire pinkerbelle" this would have been a whole different discussion. Looking forward to tomorrow.

        [–]YosharianWalks around backward with his sword on his hip 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (16子コメント)

        'Pinkerbelle must go'? Yeah that's a witch hunt

        I still don't understand why what pinker did was even wrong, according to what I've read he was simply following the sub rules

        [–]jpflathead 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (14子コメント)

        Step 1. Make rules no one wants.
        Step 2. Say you're only following the rules.
        Step 3. ??
        Step 4. Profit.

        [–]Ireyon12 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (13子コメント)

        Step 1. Make rules no one wants.

        I'm really starting to get tired of this. People were complaining all the time that the mods wouldn't say how they determined whether a post stays or not. Rule 3 as it is now is a direct result of people wanting more transparency.

        [–]bugme143 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (12子コメント)

        People wanted the Berlin Wall to be torn down, but I'm fairly sure that they'd object if we had used a nuke to remove it.

        [–]Ireyon12 -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (11子コメント)

        Then be careful what you wish for. Someone might just give it to you.

        [–]bugme143 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (9子コメント)

        Yes but in this case it was the mods being fucking obtuse and intentionally mis-interpreting things, not an actual attempt at making shit better.

        [–]Ireyon12 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

        And you know this because they said so in the mod logs?

        [–]bugme143 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        I know this because nobody except the mods supported the stupid rule.

        [–]HandofBaneMod - Lawful Evil -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        I know this because nobody except the mods supported the stupid rule.

        So there are enough mods to push the official "Rule is now in effect" thread to +172 (81%)?. Clearly reddit is broken and not displaying the moderator list properly.

        [–]ARealLibertarian 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        So there are enough mods to push the official "Rule is now in effect" thread to +172 (81%)?. Clearly reddit is broken and not displaying the moderator list properly.

        Stop that. People upvoting an announcement for new rules is because they think it needs more visibility, not because they support the rule itself.

        You're making the same mistakes that Hat did in his last moments as you grasp at any straws to convince yourself you have popular support.

        Look at the comments on that post, here are the top 5:

        1. Those new rules are "disturbing to look at".
        2. "These new rules will kill KIA the sub".
        3. (Sarcastically) "Remember kids, it's not censorship if we make up a bullshit point system to push content we don't agree with away from our subreddit!".
        4. Someone pointing out there's a lot of important things that wouldn't be allowed under the new rules.
        5. The same person as 2. comparing the top posts at the time to whether they'd be allowed under the new rules.

        There is no popular support for your new rules.

        [–]bugme143 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Exactly 283 people voted on that. On a sub of 78k. That's a 0.363% participation rate. Upvotes don't always mean "Yes, I agree with you." Upvoting, on many subreddits, means "This is a discussion worth talking about." From a cursory glance at your link, 3 of the top 5 comment chains are against the change, and 8 of the top 10 commend chains are opposed to this. That, coupled with the backlash that's occurring in this thread and in the other one, should probably say something that I'm not going to for fear of being banned for witchhunting.

        [–]jpflathead 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        u/bugme143 is absolutely right on this.

        Some folks wanted more transparency.
        The mods implemented a rule that introduced vague confusing rules interpreted differently by different mods, whose punishment involved punishing submitters by removing perfectly fine posts that were well received but that broke some arbitrary rule that few people cared about (self post) or that violated some mods interpretation of the rules.

        No one wanted that, except over controlling mods.

        99% of the problems of most subreddits are caused by mods.

        [–]JonassMkII 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        What he did wrong was be the trigger man. Well, the thread also passed the rule 3 litmus test, it just didn't have a self post spelling it out. So he was the trigger man on the wrong target.

        [–]totlmstrBanned for triggering reddit's advertisers 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Autism creates some really weird people, huh?

        [–]HessmixMod - @Hessmix 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Hope you don't mind the flair.

        [–]mnemosyne-0001archive bot 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Archive links for this discussion:


        I am Mnemosyne reborn. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL /r/botsrights

        [–]mnemosyne-0002chibi mnemosyne 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Archives for links in comments:


        I am Mnemosyne 2.0, Archives for the Archive God!/r/botsrights Contribute Website

        [–]braytowk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Can yall stop equating up votes to quality. Upvotes don't promote quality, they promote circlejerking and kharmawhores.

        [–]nogodafterall 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The user upvotin/downvoting system is the basis of reddit as a whole.

        If you deny it, you deny reddit.

        [–]C4Cypher"Privilege" is just a code word for "Willingness to work hard" 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        If I didn't want to upvote something, I wouldn't be on reddit.

        [–]DwarfGate 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I leave for work after taking the first two days off in over a year and you all go and start a lynch mob.

        Without me. So who are we killing?