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submitted by z921 to /r/india
Disclaimer: Served in the Army for 10 years in the Signals. 3rd generation officer.
Quint's expose has been removed from the site. No explanation. What they did is horrifying.
Their video did not mask the Jawan's voice. It would have been trivial for MI to determine his identity. The worst part is that they did not tell the jawan he was being recorded.
There is an issue with Sahayaks in the army. Some but not all officers misuse the facility.
Jawans are not very educated, they are easy to sting. I wish Quint had stung the officers or even the commanding officer of the unit. Or had published the report based on "anonymous sources". Either way the identity of the jawan should not have been revealed. They should have kept the video if they had been challenged in court, but should not have made it public.
But this is the age of instant journalism and instant outrage. Clicks matter more than facts. No attention was paid to the fact that the AMC (Army medical corps) has no Sahayak system at all. That if he was being used a Sahayak, the commanding officer was responsible.
Very sad state of affairs, Quint deserves to be rogered.
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[-]Keerikkadan91 2 points (2 children)
Funny when how a legitimate news story leads to a soldier's "suicide" (in quotes, because it was way too convenient for the commanding officers, for me to trust right now), the journos are to blame. Even assuming that it was in fact suicide, the blame should fall squarely on the army's long and proud history of coercion, torture and a general disregard for mental health.
Should they have masked his voice? Maybe. Are they responsible for his death? Definitely not.
[-]Bernard_Woolley 4 points (1 children)
"suicide" (in quotes, because it was way too convenient for the commanding officers, for me to trust right now)
The Army was not aware of the identity of the soldier when he killed himself. It's usually a good idea to have a firm grounding in the facts of the case before you fly off the handle.
Even assuming that it was in fact suicide
It was suicide, unless you have credible evidence that proves foul play.
the army's long and proud history of coercion, torture and a general disregard for mental health.
[-]Keerikkadan91 2 points (1 children)
The Army was not aware of the identity of the soldier when he killed himself.
Says the army. First off, I find it hard to believe that the guy killed himself out of sheer paranoia; secondly, even if that is the case, it only goes back to the mental health issue I mentioned.
It was suicide, unless you have credible evidence that proves foul play.
It's only a crime if you get caught, amirite.
Meme all you want, but that is provably a fact: "the cadets are held forcibly and beaten up with sticks. They're abused and constantly thrashed."
Getting your "patriotic" panties in a bunch changes nothing.
[-]Bernard_Woolley 4 points (1 children)
Says the army. First off, I find it hard to believe that the guy killed himself out of sheer paranoia;
An official statement that seems to fit the facts of the case versus the "beliefs" of some dude on the internet with an axe to grind. Hmmm ... which one is more credible, I wonder?
I find it hard to believe that the guy killed himself out of sheer paranoia
His own brother's words indicate that it was the most probable reason. But do tell me more about what you believe.
secondly, even if that is the case, it only goes back to the mental health issue I mentioned.
Are you now saying that the man was suffering from a mental health issue> What makes you claim so?
It's only a crime if you get caught, amirite.
No no no. It's a crime when you proclaim it is a crime! The facts of the case do not matter at all!
Meme all you want, but that is provably a fact.
So one instance of wrongdoing, which goes against the Army's ethos as well as procedures codified into law, equates to "a proud history of coercion, torture and a general disregard for mental health"? What is it that they say about the perils of generalisation?
And Did you know that it is an old video, and the perpetrators were punished? Or course you don't. Just like you had no clue that the Army did not know of the identity of the sting-ee when he committed suicide.
Getting your "patriotic" panties in a bunch changes nothing.
[-]Keerikkadan91 2 points (1 children)
An official statement that seems to fit the facts of the case versus the "beliefs" of some dude on the internet with an axe to grind. Hmmm ... which one is more credible, I wonder?
What is this axe you speak of? Let's hear it.
His own brother's words indicate that it was the most probable reason.
Such blatant lies! The article makes no such mention of that.
Are you now saying that the man was suffering from a mental health issue> What makes you claim so?
I'm not claiming that. My theory is that he was most likely murdered.
No no no. It's a crime when you proclaim it is a crime! The facts of the case do not matter at all!
Lies and sidestepping again. Typical.
So one instance of wrongdoing, which goes against the Army's ethos as well as procedures codified into law, equates to a proud history of coercion, torture and a general disregard for mental health? What is it that they say about the perils of generalisation?
And Did you know that it is an old video, and the perpetrators were punished? Or course you don't. Just like you had no clue that the Army did not know of the identity of the sting-ee when he committed suicide.
These 5 articles are just from this past week, so no; not nearly generalization.
Jali naa? Teri jali naa?
Nope. Just an observation from your history here. Your memeing does not change facts.
[-]Bernard_Woolley 3 points (1 children)
What is this axe you speak of? Let's hear it.
"Just an observation from your history here."
His own brother's words indicate that it was the most probable reason.
Such blatant lies! The article makes no such mention of that.
Such blatant lack of reading comprehension! Or is it a refusal to remove the blinders?
"John added that the family would wait for the postmortem report before taking further action in the matter.“He could have done it [committed suicide] out of mental pressure that he would lose his job. "
Are you now saying that the man was suffering from a mental health issue> What makes you claim so?
I'm not claiming that.
Yes you are. "it only goes back to the mental health issue I mentioned."
My theory is that he was most likely murdered.
A theory that cannot be backed up by an iota of evidence, and flies in the face of facts is not called a "theory"; it is called "fantasy".
No no no. It's a crime when you proclaim it is a crime! The facts of the case do not matter at all!
Lies and sidestepping again. Typical.
Glad you admitted to it. Thank you.
[Flurry of links, which include such unbiased sources as "Kashmir Reader" and "The Nation", many of which just feature one-way allegations]
I totally believe them all. Sure. The only one that is insightful and makes a sense is the interview with Bir Bahadur Singh. That the sahayak system is abused by senior officers has been discussed before. But that abuse doesn't even begin to approach what you're alluding to in your nonsensical posts.
[-]Keerikkadan91 1 points (1 children)
"Just an observation from your history here."
That is a lie and a moronic one at that. You posted that in reply to my comment which had nothing to do with you in any way whatsoever; I said the army likely murdered him, not that you did - you can thump your chest all you like, but you are not the army. The reply you mentioned was in an entirely different context.
Such blatant lack of reading comprehension! Or is it a refusal to remove the blinders?
Lies upon lies again. "Could have" only means that it is a possibility, not that he thinks that it was the most probable scenario like you said ("His own brother's words indicate that it was the most probable reason." - your words).
Yes you are. "it only goes back to the mental health issue I mentioned."
Lies and misinformation again. I had prefaced that with "First off, I find it hard to believe that the guy killed himself out of sheer paranoia; secondly, even if that is the case..."
A theory that cannot be backed up by an iota of evidence, and flies in the face of facts is not called a "theory"; it is called "fantasy".
My theory is at least a theory. You are simply lying.
Glad you admitted to it. Thank you.
Admitted what? The only thing I've admitted to there, is the fact that you are lying. If you're fine with that, good for you.
I totally believe them all. Sure. The only one that is insightful and makes a sense is the interview with Bir Bahadur Singh. That the sahayak system is abused by senior officers has been discussed before. But that abuse doesn't even begin to approach what you're alluding to in your nonsensical posts.
You can lie all you like, but those are hard news sources. Even if you completely disregard the one you don't "trust", there were still four more (I had provided an alternate news18 link for the last one, since I had correctly guessed that you would whine about it the original link being from a .pk publication). Lying and memeing does not change facts.
[-]Bernard_Woolley 6 points - [removed] (1 children)
Aww, you deleted the thread. Cute. But I can empathise with your motivations. Or what I "believe" your motivations are.
[-]Keerikkadan91 1 points
Deleted what thread? I deleted and reposted my comment when I made an edit, because I generally dislike ninja edits which add new points - that was only done for your benefit, not mine. You can lie and make all the PA you want. Idc. Facts are facts, and the facts are against you.
[-]imnoidiot5 1 points (1 children)
To play devils advocate, when they know that there is a history of coercion, torture and disregard for mental health, should they have been more responsible? Definitely.
I think the broader issue is the lack of value given to whistleblowers, and the lack of protections extended to them either legally or in this case morally by people who can do so.
[-]Bernard_Woolley 2 points
Matthew wasn't a whistleblower. Such protections would not have saved him. He was deceived by a sorry excuse for a journalist and his words were misrepresented.
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