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Girls Und Panzer Designer calls the BBC "Fake News" after his interview is not used in a documentary but still talks about GuP (ricedigital.co.uk)

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[–]-Fruit_Juice- 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (13子コメント)

このおねーちゃん (this big sis)

スージー姉さん (Suze big sis)

I'm seeing some passive aggressiveness within the tweet

[–]I3adAss 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Does this ちゃん means san?

[–]Atronoxhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Atronox 816 ポイント817 ポイント  (146子コメント)

“Why don’t you British people just do what we Japanese do since we are more civilised and have lower crime rate?”

Nogami is savage.

[–]Herbraxhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Herbrax 493 ポイント494 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The interview was "not used" because the interviewer got brutally rekt

[–]sddsddcphttps://myanimelist.net/animelist/sddsdd 123 ポイント124 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I can only imagine how smug Nogami must've felt after dropping a line like this on someone who had fully intended to corner him from the beginning of the interview.

[–]Atronoxhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Atronox 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So smug, I can feel it.

[–]Cloudhwk 221 ポイント222 ポイント  (124子コメント)

The low crime rate in Japan is often thought to be a flat out falsified by the government to be fair, Japan isn't super known for being entirely truthful to the outside world about things going on in their country

[–]Trks 169 ポイント170 ポイント  (25子コメント)

I lived for two years in Japan and, although it can't be more than an anecdote, I never felt so safe going out at night or walking around carrying money. It was very easy to find policemen with their bicycles passing by and it felt very surreal.

Of course, living in Brazil you'll find out a lot of places that are like a safe haven...

Living in the city of Izumo (pretty much the countryside) I would wake up and see children passing by, where the older ones would go pick up the younger ones to go to school. Riding a bicycle to work or to go shopping and I've never been robbed or had my bike stolen. I even had a granny neighbor who sold a few vegetables she planted on a mini stall in front of her house. She didn't even attend the stall, just leaving a pot with some change and another one to put the money for the vegetables.

I then moved to the province of Aichi where it felt less like the countryside and saw many more Brazilians there. I've actually had a couple of my belongings stolens by fellow Brazilians there lol but other than that I still felt pretty safe.

But what do I know about the actual crime rate numbers though? I just felt like that if I ever have kids I'd rather have them grow up in Japan than in my own country.

[–]Uptonogood 64 ポイント65 ポイント  (11子コメント)

As a Brazilian intending to move to Japan, others like those are probably the ones who give all of us a bad name.

There's just too many goddamn anecdotes about shitty Brazilians doing barbecues in mansion complexes and pumping the sound to max till late at night. Not to mention stealing and all kinds of shitty, insensible behavior. Expats forums are full of vitriol against these people, not to mention stories I heard personally.

I get it, here in Brazil, its the law of the jungle and people are celebrated for being selfish assholes. But not everywhere is like that. If you're going to another country to behave like a goddamn monkey, just don't go there ffs.

[–]ProjektTHOR 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (10子コメント)

This is completely unrelated to anything in this thread but your story fascinates me. Maybe its silly of me but I find the concept of a Brazilian expatriating to Japan as immensely interesting. Its just such a complete difference in cultures.

What takes you to Japan? What's your plan? What do you want to do for work? Why Japan? Sorry for so many questions, this has piqued my curiousity.

[–]SykoShenanigans 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Something else you may find interesting is that Brazil has the largest Japanese population outside of Japan.

Source.

[–]ProjektTHOR 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks for sharing that! I willingly admit that I had no idea.

[–]SykoShenanigans 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No problem. I didn't either until I became curious as to why Michiko to Hatchin exists.

[–]Uptonogood 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well. I'm an architect. I intend to preferably work with that, If not at least visit the country for some time.

The reason for that began as just being a weaboo, like most of the people here. But as I study more, the more I began to appreciate the values and the culture. My focus these days is more on culture, rather than anime actually.

It is my view, and many others around here, that my country is just rotten to the core. Like I said, people are celebrated for skillfully bending the rules and acting selfishly in complete disregard for others. In contrast Japan seems to be a place where people really care for not standing out and inconveniencing others. It seems like a paradise in comparison.

Of course, I'm not ignorant as to say they don't have problems. They do, and big ones at that. But from the perspective of someone from a place like mine, they seem laughably minor and deal able with a little individual effort.

Above all, just the idea of a country that I can raise children without being afraid of losing them to violence, or simply walking on the streets with no fear of getting shot for the contents of my wallet, puts the whole thing in perspective. Whatever problem you might find there, seems wholly insignificant next to that.

[–]PM_UR_FACE_B4_SNEEZE 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

As someone who studied Japanese martial arts, I see that there are a lot of Brazilians doing the same. It's really popular around there. There are a lot of dojos and Japanese sensei go there very often. I think Brazilians in general are interested in Japanese culture, not just weebs.

[–]Uptonogood 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've trained Aikido for a few years and certainly heard a few stories of guys abandoning everything to go train in Japan.

For some, there's a certain romance in this kind of ascetic life.

[–]PM_UR_FACE_B4_SNEEZE 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Inded. The fantasy is probably better than reality. But it's not until you try it that you get to know how it really is. I too fantasized about going to train to Japan and living on a temple eating nothing but rice, and all that, but that's quite the unrealistic dream... Instead I now fantasize about being a rockstar. Much more likely /s

[–]ProjektTHOR 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story. I wish you luck with what you're doing!

[–]Whatah 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The reason for that began as just being a weaboo

Just an anecdote, but as an american in IT who has made two trips down to São Paulo about 5 years ago, both projects the young reseller I was working with (each time a different guy in his 20's) was someone who grew up learning English from american TV shows like House and 24, and then did a lot of reading English fansubbed manga on his phone while in downtime (Bleach and Naruto).

The professional culture I saw during my 2 weeks there was full of backstabbing and employees jumping ship. People wanted to be the only person trained to use an expensive system or piece of software so they could leverage their knowledge for more money (and were very blatant about it). I could see how a smart 20-something who spoke English well and also had a love of Japanese culture might choose Japan to move to.

[–]shadovvvvalker 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Crime rate =\= safe. That's really what it comes down to.

Japan has a deflated murder rate and general problems with admitting the truth surrounding crime. Yes.

But it also has a very highly regimented society with strict controls on weapons, loitering and gang associations.

Go to the wrong place at the wrong time you will end up in trouble like damn near anywhere else. But as a foreigner in a well off country you don't have much to fear other than scams.

[–]Trks 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Lower crime rate would imply that the place is safer right? What you're arguing is that "being safe" doesn't imply in a lower crime rate?

I think that the argument you made can be applied everywhere else; which place doesn't have gangs or bad people? But if you check a list of homicide rates (don't forget to order by homocide rate) you'll see that Japan is at the lower bottom of the whole list. Just the fact that there's less chance of being killed doesn't make Japan a safer than most other countries place to live?

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    [–]xevious_1982 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah. Been to Japan several times. Always felt it was a tidy safe place, on the whole.

    コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

      [–]heimdal77 73 ポイント74 ポイント  (64子コメント)

      I've wondered about this. In stuff for Japan you always seeing how women shouldn't be out at night alone or being escorted. If the crime rate really is so low would this really be such a common issue brought up. Not to mention other related crimes.

      [–]TheNosferatu 119 ポイント120 ポイント  (54子コメント)

      Isn't this more of a 'parts of town' problem? No matter how high or low the crime is, there are always some cities with some neighbourhoods you shouldn't go to.

      [–]carurosu 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (8子コメント)

      WTF with those downvotes, isn't it a legit question? Every country I have visited had this in common.

      [–]Siantlark 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Weaboos who think Japan is ultra safe and don't like any criticism of their imaginary heaven?

      [–]Cloudhwk 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      You mean it's not filled with magic and waifu's and loli's?

      Damn

      [–]Siantlark 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The true disappointment is the broken dreams we made along the way.

      コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]Cloudhwk 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          It's honestly a little bit of a silly question

          All cities have bad neighbourhoods often of low socioeconomic status, But we was discussing overall crime in Japan being purposefully lowballed, not people going into the wrong side of town

          The whole school girl train molesting thing comes from Japan for a reason....

          [–]DeshTheWraith 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I was thinking if people were escorting women around it was just harder to commit crimes against them.

          コメントをもっと表示する (44 返事)

            [–]SmellyTofu 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Part of low crime rate is also about crime prevention, no? Lowering the probability of crime by educating and renforcing common sense?

            [–]P-01S 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            That could just be chauvinism.

            [–]zvxy1 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Don't forget the robots constantly failing while trying to repair and measure the radiation leakage of the fukushima nuclear plant, yet it remains a non-issue. People are moving back and even swimming in the beach.

            [–]LoneGhostOnehttps://myanimelist.net/animelist/LoneGhostOne 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            "most contained nuclear meltdown in history"

            The robots failing due to radiation is because the inside areas of the facility are highly radioactive from how well contained the meltdown was. There still is some radiation leakage, but this sure as hell was contained well.

            [–]Khemikooligan 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            True Story, I robbed a bank in shinjuku and the Japanese government paid me to be quiet about it. Shits crazy over there with all the drifting, kung fu, and roaming kaiju's.

            10/10 would visit again

            [–]Cloudhwk 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Bro, Steal me a Maneki-neko next time. Also a new Mazda

            [–]kettleman10 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Isn't there also a huge controversy around the fact that every homicide that isn't solved within a certain timeframe is deemed suicide and thus inflates their already bad suicide rates?

            [–]Cloudhwk 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Interesting because they made a program a while ago called "white" something to curb the suicide rate numbers because of how ridiculous it was

            IIRC was a big investment of money in counselling programs and the like

            [–]uniquecannonMAL: uniquecannon Waifu: Karen-Des~ 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Or they find the person most likely to have done it, and keep them locked up in a room for days until they sign a confession.

            I know many Americans complain about our police, but at least we have some accountability and citizen protections here. We don't even have to talk to the cops until we get counsel

            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

              [–]obvs_an_engineer 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

              Lived in osaka and tokyo for while. Probably the safest places i've lived. Compared to UK, US, Thai, Belgium.

              [–]Cloudhwk 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (5子コメント)

              It's a mileage may vary thing, Nobody fucks with with me because I'm tall and brawny and at night that's scary as fuck

              My tiny wife on the other hand even with friends has had some dicey situations where she was potentially very unsafe

              Places that I think are great she thinks is terrible

              [–]obvs_an_engineer 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              It's not like your tiny wife becomes giant wife when crossing borders... except perhaps for prolonged exposure to america...

              Of course people who look more vulnerable will experience more unsafe situations. I'm just saying that my perception of japan, it felt safer than any other place that i have lived. This is a conversation that i've had with many japs and gaijin, and they all tend to agree to some extent. In particular, my japanese friends who spent time elsewhere, such as exchange student, find japan super safe. I guess because it was already familiar to them plus unfamiliar more scary place.

              I'm not very formidible, slightly overweight. I'd happily walk home at 2am blind drunk in japan without hesitation. In thai or us i would always taxi. Uk i would also walk home but i'd never get too drunk...

              [–]Uptonogood 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              except perhaps for prolonged exposure to america...

              Everyone I know that went to America told me It's almost impossible not to get fatter there, as portion sizes are huge and food culture is stupid.

              Just an anecdote though.

              [–]LackingTact19http://www.anime-planet.com/users/furfeyl 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              The second season of Ajin had a great line about this, a character essentially says that Japan is the best in the world at managing appearances.

              [–]Felixader 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              (as preambel, i am not saying Japan bad - West good, not at all. I just mention what i think is a central problem of japans society.)

              Japan has a big ideologogical problems that stem from the idea that you shant bring shame/be a bother upon everyone... especially not by pointing out flaws of japanese society.

              This is a biiig thing whos feelers you can see everywhere from people working themselfes to death in a abrassive athmosphere of near feudal habits within their industries (up to bosses looking for marriage partners for their workers) to the mass of Hikikomori hiding in their rooms for decades and loosing all contact to reality from the massive all encompassing pressure to perform and get a certain kind of stable job of wich there aren't enough overall.

              I would have pointed out how Japans Government has the finger on most of the Media and how this leads to a mass of braindead TV over there (going so far as to show people what is a approbiate reaction to certain events) and how it's basically a policestate right now with absolutely questionable methods, but that's not really a alonestanding thing any more. :-P

              My point is that the report of low crime rates, especially in the face of the untouchable, well connected Jakuzza, is most likely absolute bollocks.

              [–]eighthgear 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              The Japanese police are also known for going to really extensive measures to get confessions out of people. Like, keeping them detained for weeks and psychologically wearing them down. False confessions are very common in Japan and recently there have been cases where court decisions made years ago on the basis of pressured confessions have been overturned.

              If you actually do commit a crime & confess to it, Japan certainly isn't the worst place to be a criminal (unless you murdered someone, but murder is kinda bad everywhere for obvious reasons). However, if you get accused of a crime you didn't commit, you can easily end up being convicted of it anyways. Though this happens elsewhere as well, of course.

              コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

                [–]grievingslime 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Meanwhile, Japan has a declining birthrate a law that inhibits news outlets in what they can report and an alarmingly high level of chronic depression and anxiety. They also prosecute crimes differently it doesn't mean they are crime free society.

                [–]Awoo-- 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I'm going to hijack your comment because you're at the top.

                I just watched the documentary. GuP wasn't mentioned or displayed, not a single time.

                This article and title are pretty bullshit.

                コメントをもっと表示する (14 返事)

                  [–]Teath123http://myanimelist.net/animelist/PalmtopJakku 359 ポイント360 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                  Oh god.. This is going to blow up for no reason, and I'm going to have to hear Americans tell me why BBC is terrible.

                  Look, its BBC Three. Nobody cares about that channel, it airs nothing but shit, and is barely related to anything else BBC, plus its now online only, that's how irrelevant it is. Nobody should care about this, but I know they will. Its hard to explain to people outside the UK how irrelevant that channel is, it just does its own thing and happens to have the BBC name attached.

                  When it still aired on TV, it was a joke that people would only use it for the American Dad/Family Guy block before they went to sleep. I don't know anyone who watched it legitimately.

                  [–]Jkid 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  BBC 3 was supposed to be the youth channel. What the hell happened?

                  [–]PandavengerX 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I've upvoting you and hoping we get you to the top. I live in the US and I appreciate the explanation because BBC is usually pretty tame and non-clickbaity so I couldn't believe that they would actually put something like this out.

                  [–]eighthgear 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Seriously, I've seen people calling for BBC to be completely defunded because of this. Yeah, one dumb BBC 3 program is representative of all of the BBC apparently.

                  [–]NFB42 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  It's always the irony with these kinds of 'incidents' that it's basically idiot from country A going to country B and insulting it with total ignorance and generalizations. And then people from Country B/all over the world respond with total ignorance and generalizations about country A.

                  The world would be a lot better if whenever we see someone from a 'foreign' country being an offensive idiot, we would assume that's just that individual and not their whole country, rather than the other way around.

                  [–]Arcturion 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  and happens to have the BBC name attached

                  The name BBC is still a big thing outside of the UK, I'm afraid. They probably leveraged it to snag an interview with Takeshi Nogami.

                  I'm actually surprised the real BBC would allow their brand to be tainted by associating with what appears to be the UK equivalent of the National Enquirer.

                  [–]Blaidd_Dwrg 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I'd actually forgotten that BBC3 existed.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                    [–]kingalbert2 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                    from what I heard from others Girls Und Panzer is kinda tame? Not at all ecci like.

                    So does she really claim cute girls driving tanks causes pedophilia?

                    [–]ergzay 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Yuyushiki is even more tame.

                    [–]Fangzzz 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                    She doesn't.

                    [–]SoMuchF0rSubtlety 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Doesn't actually mention any manga specifically by name at all.

                    [–]Ryan_Wilson 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                    She did actually attribute Girls Und Panzer as a cause for Child Abuse.

                    During the interview, we touched upon ways that we can tackle the child abuse issues in Commonwealth world. She said “banning all fictions like this!”.

                    Even went so far to say it should be banned.

                    [–]Fangzzz 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                    "Like this" didn't refer to GuP. And that isn't in the documentary. And that's just paraphrased by the guy.

                    Look at the next sentence:

                    "It seems that her view is a common one throughout the Commonwealth countries (that’s why you get arrested… for having porn comic in Canada)"

                    Like this referred to lolicon which is illegal in many countries.

                    [–]xAnimusTPAhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/xAnimus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                    The documentary did show a few example of anime that are not ecchi and focus on cute girls doing cute things (I think they were Nichijou and Lucky Star, but it's been days since I watched it so I don't remember well). Not to mention that it's so obvious that her definition of lolicon and pedophilia are completely wrong. She mentioned her disapproval of girls working as maids because it supports pedophilia. But there are no maid/butler-cafes that allow minors below the age of 12 to work there. I went to a few maid-cafes during my stay a couple of years ago, and I never saw a girl below the age of 16. And the rules there are quite strict. It's not like anime where you can lift skirts and take a peak at panties.

                    [–]Ryan_Wilson 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    I don't know if that's entirely correct here either.

                    It was mentioned earlier, her view:

                    Ms Susie(sic) stated this. “All human beings are naturally innocent and have no “dirty desires” and reading media…media depicting erotic, pedophilic, and gore contents will affect them to be corrupted”

                    “My desire is to put all pedophiles, and ones who produce pedophilic media into jail”

                    I think it's fair to say Dooley approached GuP because she believes it displays young girls erotically. Same as for the other show she approached (which did actually appear in her documentary with the subtitles below "Is this child pornography?")

                    Given her views stated, she therefore believes it's responsibly for corrupting minds with "dirty desires". These dirty desires then lead to child abuse in some cases, which in her mind seals the deal as GuP being pedohilic material hence why it should be banned.

                    Her view is a common one (The harsh anti-pedophilia, definite action sending them to jail) hence why it's actually in force in some commonwealth countries. It's why you get arrested for having fictional porn comics.

                    Am I not mistaken? Even I do take what you say, lolicon. No doubt she'd still argue GuP features lolicon in regards to why she approached it in the first place. So she's still talking about the show. Do you think she brought a lolicon manga with her during the interview that she could gesture "this" towards? I don't. I think she gestured it to the one thing the dev will know, his show.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                      [–]AwakenedSheeple 93 ポイント94 ポイント  (18子コメント)

                      I think there was a similar article (probably also BBC) last year, but it made sure to specify the issue of child sexualization was in ecchi and hentai, not necessarily anime in general.

                      I can't watch the video since it's blocked to those outside of the UK, but from everything written I assume Stacey Dooley just cherry picked any anime that had an all-girl cast and called it child porn.

                      Her argument could have been considered sound, but choosing GuP invalidates it.
                      There are hundreds/thousands of shows that heavily sexualize underage characters, but GuP is just about girls driving tanks as a combat sport.
                      Does that make World of Tanks a porn game?
                      Is Splatoon causing kids to become school-shooting maniacs?
                      Is Mario causing kids to take drugs?

                      [–]iWrangleKittenshttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/iWrangleKittens 81 ポイント82 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                      Does that make World of Tanks a porn game?

                      If so I've been playing it wrong for far too long.

                      [–]Cloudhwk 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      Giant metal death machines shooting incredibly large rounds at high velocity doesn't get you rock hard?

                      Plebeian

                      [–]Alecaz 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Penetrate my rear armour Tiger-kun

                      [–]Cloudhwk 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Please be gentle Merkava Senpai

                      [–]ThePurpleDolphin 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Don't be surprised if WoT doujin showed up at Comiket 92 because of this comments.

                      [–]Uptonogood 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Is there a one handed mode?

                      [–]Pyrimakhttps://myanimelist.net/animelist/Pyrimak 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Artillery

                      [–]OyabunRyo金色の闇 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Cancer Artillery.

                      [–]skyebadoo 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      I just love how she picked these shows when monster musume exists

                      [–]Awoo-- 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      I just watched the doc, GuP isn't in it at all. Not displayed, not mentioned. Nobody chose GuP as an example of what was being argued.

                      It's a bad documentary, but this article is the real fake news here.

                      [–]Carl_Gausshttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Maxwellsdemonx 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      is she portraing any anime at all in that?

                      is she generalising about all anime like this sort of affair does?

                      how bad is the documentary?

                      [–]Awoo-- 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It's not that bad. It's obviously the reaction of a fairly normal person with little real anime knowledge investigating child sexualisation in anime from the perspective of a normal person.

                      Where it fails is in giving a balanced viewpoint. It does not adequately bring in people from within the industry to offer argument to the issue being brought up.

                      I can entirely understand why it raises concerns about the content though. We're all pretty heavily used to it so we glaze over it, but the 400 year old vampire lolis are fucking weird to the average person, and there's ultimately no argument that it's the sexualisation of a child character.

                      Heck, even this season we've had Kobayashi, which sexualised Kanna in that scene with her school-friend. Great show and I find it adorable, but we have to admit it's weird. I can't exactly defend it for what it is.

                      [–]Fangzzz 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Really fascinating how this comment is downvoted. Keep the hate-train going, lads.

                      [–]Awoo-- 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Thanks. I appreciate that.

                      The documentary is bad in some ways, I disagree with it making an emotional argument about the children yet failing to mention to research that shows access to substitute childporn(the term used in those research papers for loli/drawn content) reduces sexual assaults. However, it's not really wrong in arguing that a large amount of anime has heavily sexualised children in it.

                      It's a fact we're very aware of ourselves and understand weirds people out who are outside the fandom. I mean, we even set tiers of "entry level" for introducing people to anime content so they don't see the weirder stuff that would freak them out first. Then introduce them to the weirder stuff later.

                      There's a lot of double-think happening in these comments, mainly because people want to defend GuP which is a good anime. That's fine, I understand that. What's important here is that GuP isn't actually used in the doc at all and to be honest we as a community understand and agree that there is a lot of anime that does exactly what the documentary is saying.

                      Such a messy thread and it all comes from the lie that GuP is in the doc. I think that if that weren't the case, people would probably mostly be agreeing with some parts of it and discussing the much more interesting topic of how half of our shows lewd lolis and how weird that is to anyone outside the fandom.

                      [–]SoMuchF0rSubtlety 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      The documentary doesn't call out GuP by name at all, so it's not like they actively snubbed Nogami. Likely the whole section just got cut.

                      The article on the other hand seems to be written with the express purpose of causing controversy.

                      [–]Fangzzz 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      If you can't watch the video it should disturb you that the article discusses a lot about this but doesn't show any excerpts from the documentary at all. It's a bullshit article that is dependent on the fact most people can't and won't actually see the thing it's talking about.

                      As far as I can see the documentary isn't about anime. The largest anime-like segment is where she interviews a guy at a store that sells lolicon manga.

                      [–]Shugbug1986http://myanimelist.net/animelist/shugbug1986 326 ポイント327 ポイント  (30子コメント)

                      Yeah, BBC needs to shitcan everyone involved in that fucking garbage "documentary". The host is a piece of shit and the fact that she's allowed to parade around her bullshit cultural imperialism down creators throats is fucking shameful. She's a hackjob and needs to be made an example of.

                      [–]PM_UR_FACE_B4_SNEEZE 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      Also there is a lot of approval from the UK Government to make a more "purist society". They banned some styles of porn to be filmed and sold in the UK. If I remember correctly facesitting, squirting and fisting were among them. Honestly with this and Brexit, I think the UK is going down fast.

                      [–]ThatFlyingScotsman 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      It's not as doom and gloom as you paint it, but it's definitely not looking good here if the current ruling party stays in for much longer, and what with the opposition being a useless bag of nutballs, I don't see it getting much better soon.

                      [–]mosenpaihttp://myanimelist.net/profile/mosenpai 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      That's barely scratching the surface. They also banned verbal abuse, which bans every porn video that says shit like slut, whore, bitch or any other cussword towards the partner. That's a lot of videos.

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                        コメントをもっと表示する (25 返事)

                          [–]Reimaruhttps://myanimelist.net/profile/Rei_Shirohato 253 ポイント254 ポイント  (100子コメント)

                          Most of her argument in the documentary against pedophilic manga is that consuming the material causes pedophilic crimes.

                          I play first person shooters. Do I go buy guns and shoot people in real life? Obvious answer is no. Only in cases of extreme social isolation does media become a factor in criminal developmental motives.

                          Also, this statement by Dooley is really telling of her SJW nature:

                          “My desire is to put all pedophiles, and ones who produce pedophilic media into jail”

                          Implying that putting criminals into jail is always the best solution. Truth is, criminal acts goes a lot deeper than just a "they're the bad guys!" attitude. They don't do these things just because they're corrupted; they're desperate in a multitude of ways.

                          The appalling thing? She doesn't put two and two together. She even had a girl who participates in prostitution as a form of self-harm appear in her documentary. She was also filming illegally in a foreign country. Yes, you can have all the anecdotes and data in the world, but they mean nothing if you can't connect the dots and realize that criminals are human, too.

                          [–]Leoofmoon 90 ポイント91 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                          If I remember right she said she thinks that every one is innocent but then media corrupts a person. So vary much she does think that looking at loli porn or playing a video game can change you and make you want to act out in those ways.

                          This persons mind going to Japan was clear to be offended by the things she saw and not understand why someone would enjoy it and that they are a deadly pedophile in waiting.

                          [–]CreatingNamesAreHardhttps://myanimelist.net/animelist/EB1 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          If I remember right she said she thinks that every one is innocent but then media corrupts a person

                          If she thought about the times when media wasn't a thing, I think she'd find that this isn't the case...

                          [–]Not_Just_Any_Lurker 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          if she thought

                          You screwed up in the first three words.

                          [–]TheRobbyStarkhttps://myanimelist.net/profile/brianz87 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          By this logic, what did pedophilia originally come from then? Did someone trip, have their dick land in a 5 year old's ass, and decide "this is great! I'm going to tell everyone about this!"

                          [–]Hecktic2323 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Totally, such shortsightedness is downright despicable. You have to dismiss the whole concept of evolution and view humans as elite beings who transcend any link to an animal to assume that any behaviour has to be caused by something bad outside. For fucks sake woman we as a species did all kinds of shit before we even had an 'opinion' about it.

                          And what hurts the most? That you have to explain WHY we would get affected at all IF we are pure. I mean you cannot just say that 'bad things make us bad'. Our children can learn a language, but is throwing a language at anything makes that thing understand and speak a language? No. A stone will never talk. There is something inside us that seeks and is ready to learn a language. If you miss that critical time period some of us don't ever learn a language sufficiently. Those moments of pure stupidity leave me want to advocate social eugenics. But I do think that is unethical, how human of me.

                          [–]IguanadonsEverywherehttp://myanimelist.net/profile/DaLucaray 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          Which leads to the question of where this media comes from...

                          [–]ToastyMozart 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Demons, obviously.

                          [–]PM_UR_FACE_B4_SNEEZE 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          It comes from the recent shift in UK's Government policies. Not more than a couple years ago they banned specific kinds of pornography being filmed, distributed and sold. It included facesitting, fisting and female squirting. The UK is a scary place to be right now.

                          [–]IguanadonsEverywherehttp://myanimelist.net/profile/DaLucaray 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          No, I mean, if people are pure until media corrupts them, how is this media created?

                          [–]Slim_Charles 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          She sounds like my grandmother who thinks the media turns children gay.

                          [–]mcpw 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          One problem with your comment is that it implies all things she showed are de facto pedophilia. But in truth a LOT of it wasn't, which is why it is infamous. For example, in the mix there was stuff like Yuyushiki, where the characters are 16+ and it is has nothing to do with porn.

                          [–]TheNosferatu 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                          I play dwarf fortress, I wonder what kind of person I'd be if I act it all out.

                          [–]1337_n00b 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                          A dwarf?

                          [–]InMyRestlessDreams 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          No, a fortress.

                          [–]snowysnowyGot anymore of that Log Horizon? 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          If he's played it enough, a raging barrel of salt.

                          [–]TheNosferatu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Silly, there is no salt. We preserve our food by throwing it all on a big pile next to the refuse.

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                            [–]Valance23322 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Well you certainly wouldn't be an artist.

                            [–]cemanresu 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Day care attendant?

                            [–]AnesthesiaCat 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Drowned in lava.

                            [–]lare290 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Depends. Are you a good dwarf or an elf-lover? Because if you are an elf-lover, you deserve to be hammered, real life or not.

                            [–]ChuckCarmichael 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (38子コメント)

                            It's a common question in regards to lolicon manga: Does reading this stuff encourage pedophiles to act out their urges, since they start to think it's socially acceptable; or does it serve as an outlet for them, allowing them to vent their desires without ever hurting a real child? The BBC lady thinks it's the former, Nogami thinks it's the latter.

                            [–]Wollff 72 ポイント73 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                            It's a common question in regards to lolicon manga: Does reading this stuff encourage pedophiles to act out their urges, since they start to think it's socially acceptable

                            I think it's a bad way to phrase the question. I think it obscures the actual problem behind it.

                            Even if lolicon manga inspired pedophiles, should it be banned? Why?

                            The general question is this: Should we ban media that influences mature adults toward illegal acts?

                            I make a film where someone steals a pack of gum. He is not caught. He enjoys his gum. When it is proven that this film inspires and encourages theft, should it be banned?

                            If Gran Tourismo (or a different racing game of your choice) inspires people to drive recklessly, should it be banned?

                            As I see it, mere inspiration should not be illegal. Ever.

                            We are rational human beings. Even if something inspires us, we can choose to act differently. If we don't? Then we, as rational actors, are guilty of that. Not the thing that inspired us.

                            [–]Ishiro32 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            What are you talking about? Thought crimes are as bad as real crimes!!

                            [–]sddsddcphttps://myanimelist.net/animelist/sddsdd 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Yes, thoughtcrime is doubleplusungood.

                            [–]SigmaStrain 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            You're a latent criminal!

                            [–]PM_UR_FACE_B4_SNEEZE 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I agree on this. Art is allowed to show things that people shouldn't do. If I portray a historic movie with Hitler on it, it's realist, because it is what actually happened. Not being able to do it because we're afraid that people may actually want to be like Hitler is just censorship. It's like making Game of Thrones without rape and incest. Those were things that happened in medival times, and as such they should be portrayed artistically. If some nutjob takes fiction and tries to turn it into reality, it's that nutjob's fault, no the artist.

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                              [–]Creasie 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Does reading this stuff encourage pedophiles to act out their urges, since they start to think it's socially acceptable

                              Cases like that are not pedo-specific. If someone commits crime because porn led him into believe that it is ok, the they have problems with differentiating between real and fiction. People like that are going to sooner or later cause some problems regardless of what kind of (or if at all) fiction they consume.

                              It also depends on how exactly they act out their urges, tho not too much when it comes to pedophilia.

                              [–]dralcaxhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Dralcax 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                              I see it like this. Plenty of people jack it to rape porn. Rape is a very common sexual fantasy. However, getting off to the idea of rape does not mean you want to rape someone or be raped yourself. Lolicon is the same deal. Just because you're attracted to an underage fictional character doesn't mean you'd touch a real kid.

                              [–]Awoo-- 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              It's a common question that's been addressed by research. First it was discovered that access to real child pornography reduces sexual assault, then it was discovered (and confirmed in multiple countries on longitudinal studies) that substitute content (drawn) has the same effect as the real content.

                              It is frustrating to see emotional arguments for the issue being pushed by intelligent people. They should really be checking the research before greenlighting documentaries pushing these emotional issues.

                              This is more like Channel 4 program than a typical BBC documentary. Shame.

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                                [–]Zakboy-http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Zakboy- 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Oh, she's done a piece on japan's youth before. Was alright, but pretty simple and she came across as pretty simple herself. I guess it makes sense she's putting out garbage like this.

                                [–]sterob 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Most of her argument in the documentary against pedophilic manga is that consuming the material causes pedophilic crimes.

                                I play first person shooters. Do I go buy guns and shoot people in real life? Obvious answer is no. Only in cases of extreme social isolation does media become a factor in criminal developmental motives.

                                Don't you remember video games used to be on the news for "encouraging violence"?

                                Manga-Anime is the new video games now. A lot of people playing video games now, so they need a new target.

                                [–]QuadraKev 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Most of her argument in the documentary against pedophilic manga is that consuming the material causes pedophilic crimes.

                                Reading loli ecchi/hentai is a gateway sex crime /s

                                [–]1337_n00b 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                (...) and ones who produce pedophilic media (...)

                                Does this count for Bible printers as well? Also, there is a huge difference between making art about something and endorsing it, and I'd trust no censor-happy person to draw that line.

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                                  [–]Bones404[S] 130 ポイント131 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                  I hope this does not turn hugely political. But I was just amazed how she interviewed a designer for GuP an anime that is not even remotely considered pornography and even ecchi for this matter (unless your into tanks since I understand that).

                                  I mean the issue is there but the lady behind the whole thing just has this stigma agasint anime for some reason like this little scene. The line where she apparently acted like a hit man from Black Lagoon seemed kinda weird too.

                                  I also did a little more research myself here

                                  UK:

                                  2014/15 has seen the highest number of recorded sexual offences in the last decade. It is likely that improved recording of sexual offences by the police and an increased willingness of victims to come forward will have contributed to this rise.

                                  Also they went from 16,627 child sexual offensives in 2010 to over 47,000 in 2015

                                  Couldn't find a solid statistic for Japan except they're not within the top 11 countries for sexual child abuse while UK was ranked 4 back in 2011... with 16,000.

                                  I agree its a problem everywhere really but the fact how this lady puts Japan in some bad light as some nation of sexual deviants while her own country is probably even worse does not sit right with me. She did look more into the actual real life shit happening in Japan but the anime part was down right poor.

                                  [–]Arendashttps://myanimelist.net/animelist/Kreion 129 ポイント130 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                  Not to dismiss your stats - but Japan has had fucking issues with female rights and sexuality for ages, the fact that things like train molestation don't get reported anywhere near as much as they should speaks for the lower crime rate. I mean for god sake this is a country that has "Be careful of your skirt when going up elscalators" on the wall...

                                  In terms of general crime rate Japan is a good country to talk about but if you are talking about sexual abuse they have a culture in which women are a lot less likely to come forward so it's very difficult to compare. It's like how somewhere like the UAE probably has super low sexual abuse stats but you're not going to tell me that they are a bastion of women's rights.

                                  With that said, I completely agree that her actions here are inappropriate. There was certainly some interesting information in the doc but it seems stupid to destroy whatever respect you had by including things which are patently false. I don't really understand the logic, all I can put it down to is sheer laziness on the side of the doc team. Since there are so many manga that they COULD have actually taken issue with in terms of underage sexualisation (whether it's right or wrong is a different issue, I'm just saying they are there) but they chose...GuP?

                                  Once again it speaks more to the ignorance of a typical westerner on these types of things than anything else, not unexpected but disappointing and unprofessional.

                                  [–]kkrkohttps://myanimelist.net/animelist/krko 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                  I agree with you that Japan has huge issues with female rights, but do note the difference in magnitude. The number of Britain's child sexual offenses is two and half times that of Japan's while having about half the population. For under reporting to fully account for that, Japan's unreported rate should be five times higher than Britain's. Not to mention that child molestation is far less likely to get a free pass as other forms of sexual abuse.

                                  [–]necko-mattahttps://myanimelist.net/profile/nekorug 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Other people have mentioned good reasons for the comparison being problematic, but another one might also be different laws and definitions of criminal acts, and differences in how statistics are compiled by the government. There are big issues with trying to compare rape stats in Sweden with other countries for very similar reasons, for example. For any comparison to be useful there needs to be a lot of care taken to mitigate such things.

                                  [–]Dastardly6[🍰] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I would just say. So many crimes here are not reported, like a staggering amount are not reported. So it throws the stats off massively. And that is before you even start to look into the mess that is the prosecution system.

                                  [–]Arendashttps://myanimelist.net/animelist/Kreion 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  There's no doubt that there seems to be a larger problem of sexual child abuse in the UK, I was just pointing out how it's very difficult to compare stats between the two countries, or between any two countries on issues like this unless they are similar. I would add that it would be interesting to see if there were differing definitions of sexual child abuse etc. between the two countries - not that it would lessen the problem at all.

                                  You're right that it's very disingenuous to deflect attention on to Japan when your own country is doing so poorly on that front.

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                                      [–]P-01S 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I would absolutely not trust statistics on sexual assault from Japan. Shame culture encourages people to keep silent. Think of how many anime have a female character yell something like "now I can't get married" when a guy accidentally sees them in a state of undress. Sure, it's presented as a joke in anime... but what inspired the joke? What message does it send?

                                      Not to mention Japan's persistent, very real problem with sexual assault in public, e.g. on trains.

                                      The reporting rates in Japan are probably very low.

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                                        [–]Seldom_Crisis 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Huh, that's weird, my family would have usually told me about a documentary like this when it was released...

                                        Aired on BBC Three

                                        That explains it, it was literally aired on the BBC Channel that shit that it was moved online, also explains why I has never heard and couldn't recognise this reporter.

                                        I'll have to watch it later, but I'd be more surprised about a British Interviewer being incredibly against pornography (and thinking that all anime so porn) if not for the fact that our Government literally have made laws to restrict the stuff in the guise of "Think of the Children!"

                                        [–]Kamilnyhttps://myanimelist.net/profile/Kamilny 85 ポイント86 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                        "Another quote by the same Designer was 'People tell me I have the best designs. We're gonna make them bigger. They're gonna be yuge.' More at 11."

                                        [–]Yanrogue 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        I tell you what folks. My designs just got 10 feet taller.

                                        [–]DeezoNutso 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        THE CHESTS JUST GOT 10 FEET FLATTER

                                        [–]randCN 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        When the BBC sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you; they're not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing yellow journalism. They’re bringing fake news. They’re liars.

                                        [–]DeezoNutso 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        They're not sending Pettanko. They're not sending Imoutos.

                                        They're bringing Oppai. They're bringing T H I C C Onee-sans.

                                        [–]ArufeimKirrahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/RedHead_Bride 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        The interviewer is a huge mess, really low energy. Sad!

                                        [–]imrooniel 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        We've got the best designs, don't we folks? The best. Not like those failing BBC designs, total disaster!

                                        [–]alphaProto 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        This interview, it's a disaster. A total disaster. Possibly the worst interview in the history of our country, maybe ever.

                                        [–]Tension-Tenshi 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        The documentary is on BBC Three, which should be a sign that it's a load of shit.

                                        I believe that banning lolicon hentai would do fucking nothing. It's not hurting anyone, because it's fiction. And thinking that anime with a bunch of young characters encourages child pornography is just stupid.

                                        [–]BlackCell69myanimelist.net/animelist/BlackCell 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        This thread is going from "BBC and that woman sucks" to "Religion is propaganda".

                                        I came here to talk about anime.

                                        Abandon Thread!

                                        [–]Mango_Zango 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        Stacey Dooley is a moron, it honestly boggles my mind that she has been given her own series.

                                        As a Brit I'm very proud that the BBC comes from my country and produces some of the best documentaries out there (Attenborough's wildlife documentaries and Louis Theroux's world documentaries for example) but this is just a serious step down in quality, it's garbage.

                                        [–]withadancenumber 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Theroux and Attenborough are treasures. It's a shame there are hacks out there like Dooley that get the same platform.

                                        [–]tinker_tailor17 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I'm pretty pissed off that my tax money is being spent on idiots like her.

                                        [–]LuisN 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                        Apart from the manga = child abuse, the rest of the doc about the teenage maid shops and shit really is legit fucked up.

                                        [–]TheLantean 104 ポイント105 ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                        Then again, if they wanted to spin the GuP mangaka as a CP creator can you trust that nothing else was horribly distorted?

                                        /r/anime was able to call bullshit on that part because the people in this sub actually have a ton of knowledge in the matter but for anything else, unless you live in Japan, you can't tell one way or the other.

                                        [–]ChuckCarmichael 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        In my country we have a show called Panorama (which I think was copied from the UK) all about tough investigative journalism. I always liked that show, because it always felt like they found the real truth behind things. Then after some kid killed a few people at his school they aired something about video games, but the whole report was complete garbage, filled with claims that were simply not true (things like "WoW is set in WWII" or "Counterstrike is about slaughtering innocents"). When people complained to them about that, they claimed that all these complainers were all video game addicts who just can't stand criticism of their addiction.

                                        I stopped watching the show after that, because if I know that their reporting about things I know about is bullshit, their reporting about things I don't know about might be bullshit as well, but I'd never know. Michael Crichton called it Gell-Mann amnesia effect.

                                        [–]Kiinako_ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        What country is that, if I may ask?

                                        [–]ChuckCarmichael 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Germany. This was back during the 2000s when there were three big school shootings and the media tried desperately to find a reason. All three guys played violent video games (called "killer games" by the media), so the case was clear: the video games were at fault. Things like psychological problems, depression, bullying, etc. were too hard to understand and too difficult to solve, while video games were an easy target.

                                        [–]Kiinako_ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Yeah, they haven't learned either, IIRC after the Munich attack they found that the dude who shot around had like 100 hours in CS:S, and the media tried to pin it as addicted to the game or some shit.

                                        [–]NekuSoulhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/NekuSoul 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Should be Germany, unless the show has also been copied to yet another country without a name change. Incidentally, the german word Panorama has exactly the same meaning as it does in the english language.

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                                          [–]ProjektTHOR 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Folks can do this because the rest of the documentary fits their worldview. It's kind of sad. 🤔

                                          [–]Spoor 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          can you trust that nothing else was horribly distorted?

                                          You mean just like yesterday? "Vault 7? Nothing to see here, guys, move on."

                                          [–]necko-mattahttps://myanimelist.net/profile/nekorug 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                          It's a known issue, one their government is neglecting. VICE did a short documentary on joshi-kosei osanpo if you trust them more. They do mention manga slightly in passing if I recall correctly, but it's not at all a focus of the piece. Here's a great article about the sexual assault of Japanese school girls which is very relevant, and it also mentions the neglect from society and the government.

                                          I'm a pretty strong advocate for fiction, ultimately, being fiction, and how it's separate from real life. With that position, however, I think I need to have a very strong and emphatic opposition to creeps and criminals who do cross that boundary and violate actual people. If I'm going to claim that "fiction is fiction", which I do, then I damn well better live up to that and strongly oppose those who wish to cross that line. There can be no compromise or excusing it, they are my enemy.

                                          [–]-Deuce-http://myanimelist.net/animelist/randomman57 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                          VICE has been known to embellish some of their documentary pieces in the past; however, I will admit that some of what they showed was a bit disconcerting. I believe my biggest issue with their piece is with them focusing on Tokyo, which does not represent all of Japan. Unfortunately, I'd wager that this exists in places other than Japan.

                                          [–]Z3riahttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Zeria_ 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          Tokyo isn't all of Japan, but the Tokyo Metro area has a third of the country's population. Things differ outside Tokyo of course, but it isn't unfair to focus on Tokyo when talking about Japan.

                                          [–]Tyrosian 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          That VICE documentary does not impress me. They seem to mixing up prostitution, maid cafes and Idol business. Also they are using this guy Adelstein as a source. He's a fiction writer that's pretending to be a journalist and no one takes him seriously in Japan or the ex-pat community.

                                          [–]P-01S 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          I don't think Vice is a good source for documentaries let alone news... They are good at showing snippets of interesting things, but I don't trust them at all for context or commentary on those things.

                                          [–]shadovvvvalker 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Here's the thing. Art is an expression of culture. If your culture has problematic views towards sexuality your art is going to to. If you censor the art and stifle the sexuality you simply pile on to the problem.

                                          But this is Japan. They don't want to solve the problems with their culture. So it makes more sense for them to further repress their issues with sexuality in hopes of saving face.

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                                              [–]ergzay 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                              What's wrong with a teenage maid shop, honest? They're working part time, likely getting paid better than they would otherwise. They're not engaging in anything sexual. People work part time jobs in Japan in high school.

                                              [–]Subotan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                              It's fascinating how a lot of people on the subreddit who sneer at "SJWs" and "snowflakes" limiting free speech are going bananas about an unfavourable documentary and calling for the makers to be "shitcanned".

                                              I went into watching the documentary relatively sceptical of her argument beforehand, and I was genuinely shocked at her account. Stuff like casting six year old girls in softcore erotica is extreme, and if you are going to defend Japan's laws you need to be honest about what you are protecting here.

                                              These is a legitimate debate to be had about whether fictionalised drawings do more to 'let off steam' or 'encourage', but I don't see much of that in this thread. Instead I see a lot of nitpicking about specific terminology and anime series that skirts around the central issue - even if sexual abuse of women is a global phenomenon, Japan takes a lax attitude to it both legally and socially.

                                              And, full credit to the numerous women in the documentary she interviews who are campaigning to stop it too. The idea that this is defensible as a "cultural" thing is far more imperialist than her documentary, as if Japanese people are some weird hivemind who all think the same things. This state of affairs is contested by other Japanese, and it is inaccurate and deceptive to present it as uncontroversial and naturally Japanese.

                                              [–]Cripstat 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                              I think while your take is admirable the fact she chose GuP, a relatively benign and almost if not entirely innocent show as a target, means this piece wasn't created to generate discussion, it was the video equivalent to a jezebel article designed purely to create drama and stir up controversy. The creator clearly had no interest in understanding the source material, so why should there be a discussion.

                                              For what its worth I agree with all your points, if they were made about a piece with any real substance or intention to generate actual discussion rather than plaster blame on the entire industry, I wouldn't be writing this comment, but unfortunately the author is very clearly only interested in drama, or is just so inexperienced they fail to understand even the basics of investigative journalism.

                                              Personally I can understand peoples reaction although I do not condone it, all that weird shit with obviously underage girls creeps me out as well, but the makers very clearly want to create a divide between consumers who support this industry as one big group and everyone else.

                                              [–]Subotan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              I actually don't remember Girls und Panzer coming up. Maybe I have a scatterbrain and genuinely missed it, or they did the interview and then made an editorial decision not to proceed with showing it - ie showing that they understood the source material and how to make a documentary.

                                              It was also rather brave in letting the people who supported this stuff defend themselves, I thought. She didn't put words in people's mouths, she simply asked questions of both consumers of JK cafes and an actual paedophile and let them tell their own story.

                                              Like every Western account of Japan, it could have portrayed it better and in the appropriate contexts (both with manga as a rather normal pop culture thing in Japan, and sexual abuse as a global phenomenon of violence against women). But as I said, I went in sceptical and felt it did a surprisingly good job, and it was appropriately narrowly focused on the abuse of young women rather than manga.

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                                                  [–]Hamlock1998https://myanimelist.net/animelist/Hamlock 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                  Can someone explain something to me peacefully please? If someone's a pedophile that did not hurt any kids, does he really deserve to be jailed?

                                                  [–]zpenrithhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/zpenrith 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                  I think they deserve too be given help, not just thrown in to jail, once we do that, we got on the moral questions that are explored in Psycho Pass

                                                  [–]Cloudhwk 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  It's been accepted amongst that mental health community that it's mental health issue more than anything

                                                  Counselling and observation are the two best solutions without violating some fairly basic human rights

                                                  [–]Hamlock1998https://myanimelist.net/animelist/Hamlock 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  Even if they do get help, that doesn't always they'll get "cured", no?

                                                  [–]zpenrithhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/zpenrith 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Being "cured" isn't really the purpose of help, it's too keep others safe

                                                  [–]Fangzzz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  I think the ideal outcome is not necessarily to cure these people but to teach them how to manage themselves, avoid temptation, keep themselves and others safe.

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                                                    [–]MobiusMC 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    Being a pedophile isn't inherantly wrong or even illegal, it's acting on the impulses you have by being a pedophile, that's what's illegal, whether it's viewing actual child porn or inflicting abuse on a child yourself. So no pedophile deserves jail (unless they've harmed an actual child, or viewed real CP) they should be offered treatment if they want it.

                                                    Lolicon is the one grey area of this, and whilst I'm on the boat that it should be legal everywhere, it's not the case, and many countries treat it as if it was real CP. Lolicon harms no one, it's a drawing, no victims, and the excuse that it causes more real life abuse is stupid, the same arguement for violent video games has been debunked over and over, this should be no different.

                                                    So in the end, if you live in a place where it is illegal, you have to think about the repocussions of viewing lolicon material and possibly getting caught. Thought I highly doubt you would, for as long as there are countries where it is legal, there will be websites that can host it without problems.

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                                                      [–]DodoXek 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                      Everyone sees Japan as a shitfest of broken culture and rape. If you disagree, you're defines as a weeaboo. That's how it works. It's fucked up, but we can't fix that without fixing stupid.

                                                      [–]faus7 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (32子コメント)

                                                      By god I will fight the UK savages to my last breath for talking shit about GuP. Cannot believe there are still people from Britain that still think with that holier than thou attitude that is a relic from the colonial imperialism ages.

                                                      [–]Horizon96 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                      I'm fairly certain people having a holier than thou attitude is not exclusive to the UK.

                                                      [–]Spyro_Pyro 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      Nah didn't you know, 1 journalist from the BBC = the whole of the UK. We're all just arrogant imperialists over here.

                                                      [–]P-01S 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Yep. ITT: weeaboos talking about how arrogant and imperialistic the UK is... without a hint of irony.

                                                      I've seen some comments that say GuP isn't even mentioned in the documentary...

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                                                        [–]Cloudhwk 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Just look at reddit

                                                        [–]Seldom_Crisis 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                        Cannot believe there are still people from Britain that still think with that holier than thou attitude

                                                        Is it really that surprising? This is a country that voted for Brexit partly based on "We're British, we will do better outside the EU, even if we have no fucking clue what we're doing!" and has built up quite an ego due to not having lost a war on home soil for multiple centuries. In terms of things I've heard living in the UK, this doesn't sound that surprising at all.

                                                        [–]Kiszokihttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Kiszoki 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                        Half of the country voted for it. Don't paint us all with that brush.

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                                                            [–]Aspality 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                            It seems that most people in this thread hasn't seen the documentary or at least it appears that way. I'm not saying that her interview with GuP's art designer was warranted nor her beliefs something i believe in, but there's a reason non of that trash made it into the actual doc which focuses on content that's much more serious. Since the video of the doc I watched was deleted, I'll just write up most of the important details:

                                                            The doc was mostly about real life situations where real underaged girls are in vulnerable positions and prone to exploitation.

                                                            It started off with talking about School Girl Cafes where real school girls serve middle aged men their orders and the doc made a point that the patrons and girls regularly talk about sex and talk sexually with each other. Stacey then interviewed an underaged prostitute and she confessed that her home conditions aren't great and she has attempted to kill herself in the past.

                                                            'Chaku Ero' which is essentially soft-core porn but since they are somewhat dressed it's not legally classified as porn and so children as young as 6 (the age they start primary school) can be used in these legally. Stacey asked the director how he morally feels about what he does and he answers it's simply business. She then asks (and I paraphrase) "What would you do if you found out your own daughter partook in these things?", and he answered with "...I know it sounds a bit extreme but... I would kill her, then I would kill myself".

                                                            She also had an interview with someone that I can safely assume to be a major Otaku, that owns a little girl doll and admits that he fucks said doll. He says that he would never assault a little girl because it was illegal, which lead Stacey to ask if it wasn't illegal, would he have sex with her and he answered something along the lines of "if she likes me, and she consents, then yes I would."

                                                            There's a few other bits in the doc but mostly about her talking with groups and people set up to protect the rights or rallying for better legal protection for girls in vulnerable positions which isn't all that interesting.

                                                            The last part was where Stacey talked about the hentai/doujinshi and the "prominence" of more extreme genres like rape and lolicon. She then interviews a translator for doujins and the argument went down exactly how you expect it to, she questions if material such as this would cause people to commit crimes and that said material should be outlawed. The translator argues that the material shouldn't be responsible for the actions of the person, the person themselves should be, and that these are simply drawings; ink on paper, no one is getting hurt. They agree to disagree and that's about it.

                                                            Now the other parts of the doc I could accept, there wasn't really any glaring problems with it except for the typical loaded documentary questions, and dramatisation techniques. But for the doujinshi part, that was something that I personally had the biggest problems with, the way she seems to imply that a minor genre in a super niche-product is somehow a huge societal problem. The obvious argument is that (bar people with mental disorders) people are responsible for their own actions and any crime they commit. And as an extension to that point, people have every right to produce and consume such material, it's simply drawings, an artistic impression, it's not real.

                                                            tl;dr - Read my post plz, but essentially the documentary doesn't focus on anime/manga much except for the last part about hentai doujins. There's real problems being addressed in the doc and I recommend you watch it for yourself

                                                            ///Sorry for the huge post though, but I felt I had to get it out there.

                                                            [–]blastcat4http://www.anime-planet.com/users/uncaringbear/anime 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                            I can't view the documentary, so thanks for the write-up. What exactly was she trying to point out, using GuP as an example? That particular anime is probably one of the least fan service-y shows that I've watched, much less lollicon or hentai. Mind you, GuP made me think a lot about its portrayal of violence and history revisionism, but more from an interesting discussion point-of-view.

                                                            [–]Aspality 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Well it's in the title of the article as well but the entire 3 hour interview regarding GuP got cut out, so non of any of this reporting is relevant to the actual documentary rather than just Twitter beef, but I guess we're all used to even major news sources reporting on tweets by now...

                                                            [–]Fangzzz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            I imagine the interview was just to get context into wider attitudes about lolicon amongst the manga and anime creation community, there was no use of GuP as an example of lolicon at all. The interview was probably not included precisely because they didn't want to imply GuP is lolicon.

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                                                                [–]Kuso_baka 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                That was a pretty nice anime gonna watch again

                                                                [–]TheLoneWolf989 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Just ignore this bollocks. It's Stacey Dooley, all she does is make shitty documentaries that can't make it onto BBC 2. You can't take her seriously.

                                                                [–]Tsukuruya 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                As much as the interview went to shit for that guy, I hope it doesn't affect his future works (in GuP or any other project he takes up).

                                                                [–]Tera_GXhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Tera_GX 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                The internet's pretty much hailing him as a hero for his burn toward her. So hopefully.

                                                                [–]SHavens 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                The big problem here is her mindset. She came into this trying to prove she was right, not get the truth. Also, every study on video games making people violent were taken during the play of the games. They then used that to say video games desensitize kids. However, a study recently came out trying to test long-term effects of violent video games on people and found that they reacted exactly the same as other people when shown upsetting images. It showed that the widely believed theory is most likely wrong. Of course that could mean viewing any material is not going to make you more likely to enact it, according to this study.

                                                                I'll link to it, but it's boring science talk about fMRIs. I did a write up about it earlier today too, but I'd feel a bit like a sellout linking to my own stuff.

                                                                Edit: oops, forgot the sauce

                                                                http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00174/full

                                                                [–]Fangzzz 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                Have you watched the documentary?

                                                                [–]SHavens 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                I read up a bit on it, but I'm not allowed to watch it because I'm outside the UK.

                                                                So if you want, take my opinion of her with a grain of salt, but the studies are open to everyone so that's a lot more solid.

                                                                [–]Fangzzz 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                I think the problem of "trying to prove she was right, not get the truth" is something far more significant in the response to her than she herself. Almost nobody here has watched the documentary and Dooley wasn't given a say in any of the reporting. Everything is feeding off of what one person said about her.

                                                                In terms of the fMRI stuff, well, the messaging is pretty mixed. One thing I will point out is that sexual content is different from violent content - we have pretty well established history to indicate that cultural ideas of 'sexiness' shifts over time. Whether big boobs are sexy, whether fatter women are sexier... those have all shifted over the years. I don't think it's very out there to say that the prevalence of sexualised images of children in Japanese culture, if not causes then at least is part of a wider social conversation that legitimises sexual abuse in Japan. You can have a debate about whether Ban This Filth is justified, but I think you'll have to cherry pick a lot to ignore the totality of the evidence.

                                                                [–]SHavens 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                Those are very good points. It is true I don't know a lot about her, but as a journalist it bothers me that someone would leave out a source, especially one that basically dealt with the issue first hand. Sure, a lot of times it can be useful to have an angle, but ignoring evidence leads to problems like we have with anti vaccine people.

                                                                I also can't speak on how bad sexualization of children is in Japan, but I know it happens all over the world, and a lot more frequently than people like to think. (Sauce http://www.f-4-c.org/slavery/facts.asp)

                                                                We can speculate on whether the prevalence of sexual images of children is contributing to their abuse there, but I don't know of any hard evidence of that one way or the other. It's purely speculation.

                                                                I'll go back to what he said in the article. He saw people born bad, and she saw them as born good and corrupted by society. Personally from everything I've seen and done I believe people are born bad. Still, I think it's important to talk about this sort of thing. I couldn't tell you if it's alright to show any sexual material, because it may lead to more sexual crimes, or it may help release that tension and desire people have inside of them.

                                                                [–]Fangzzz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Well, it's more accurate to say "he says she saw them as born good and corrupted by society". Do we actually think that's her view? I doubt it, I imagine like most people she actually thinks it's somewhere in between, maybe she's further towards one end of the spectrum than he is, but the positions are hardly irreconcilable.

                                                                "Those are very good points. It is true I don't know a lot about her, but as a journalist it bothers me that someone would leave out a source, especially one that basically dealt with the issue first hand. Sure, a lot of times it can be useful to have an angle, but ignoring evidence leads to problems like we have with anti vaccine people."

                                                                I don't think she's ignoring a source, rather well, the interview was always a bit far from the scope of the documentary and was really present to give contextual information. There is a segment in the documentary where she interviews someone directly involved in lolicon that makes essentially the same points - that's probably why the GuP interview was trimmed. If you want to view things positively and I choose to, the exclusion of the interview was to protect the GuP creator. Inclusion would have created the false connection between GuP and lolicon for viewers of the documentary.

                                                                [–]TsundereRagerhttps://myanimelist.net/profile/Tsun 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                The interviewer seems to be fucking cancer from what I gathered. She pushed a bunch of shit and completely ignored the interviewees responses. That's not an interview that's just being a cunt.

                                                                Hope she get's fired then she can cry on Twitter.

                                                                [–]stargunner 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                i hate people that look down on other countries as if they are somehow superior. the UK is just as fucked up a place as Japan and Dooley is an ignorant bitch

                                                                [–]Sythax63 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                This whole thing is a major embarrassment. People like her make me ashamed to be British.

                                                                [–]InsaneLazyGamer 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                You Japanese should be more like us

                                                                The British history of getting people to act more like them and then getting irritated when people act more like them

                                                                [–]Shiveonhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Riveon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Wait! So there are "real news"? I thought that being reporter is all about fake news.

                                                                [–]morzinbohttp://myanimelist.net/profile/morzinbo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                He's not wrong

                                                                [–]GVBNhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/gvbn 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Girls Und Panzer Designer: BBC Documentary is “Fake News, National Shame”

                                                                that's the title of the togetter page which is added to the tweet body when it's shared, not the designer's own words. ricedigital is fake news

                                                                [–]GiftoftheGeekhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/CatSoul 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                If the interviewer would have done just a little bit of research, she would've found the official classification board in the UK approved Girls und Panzer for ages 12 and up. Not exactly child porn.

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