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MetaRegarding the Council and the Mods- (self.EliteDangerous)

yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous が 投稿

Fellow CMDRs -

As you know, this sub has been in a state of civil unrest pending lockdown precipitated by the recently publicized rule change. In it, much anger has been directed at both the top mod, u/SpyTec13, as well as the Council that votes on rule changes. Throughout this brouhaha the mods have continuously implied that the Council is in some fashion vested with an advise and consent role.

I am here to charge that this is a farce, based on multiple conversations with various members of this Council. Stemming from this recent controversy, a discussion was initiated to publicly talk about what the community felt were changes that should be brought about, if any, to the manner in which the subreddit is run. As a result of this discussion, which very frequently included the suggestion for more transparency, the Council voted overwhelmingly in favor (5 for, 0 against, 1 abstention) of making their discussions publically viewable. Despite this near-unanimous vote, the mods (likely Spytec) vetoed the decision. I therefore charge that this is clear evidence that the Council exists primarily as a PR tool for the mods rather than a substantive decision-making body.

Further, I also charge that our top mod, SpyTec, is not a person this community can have confidence in as an objective and even-handed leader. The root of this entire situation comes directly from drama on the subreddit Discord, which is administered by u/RheaAyase. I must remind everyone that this “name and shame” related dox occurred outside of this subreddit completely. CMDR Rhea also coincidentally happens to be our top mod’s “girlfriend”. SpyTec additionally put Rhea on the Council, despite the incredibly obvious conflict of interest. I ask you, CMDR – doesn’t this seem a little fishy to you? Despite the fact that it has been described as the “official” Discord server for this subreddit, SpyTec claims they are separate entities implying there is no obvious conflict of interest here. Further, SpyTec’s conversation with Council member u/LiquidCatnip on that same thread should make it pretty clear to the objective reader that our top mod has an obvious blind spot, one which has been the catalyst for this newest controversy on this sub.

Therefore I request, with the understanding that no individual user has any real power here, the following corrective actions –

  • Moderators reverse their veto of the most recent Council vote
  • SpyTec steps down as a moderator, and takes a seat on the Council in recognition for his many valuable contributions to this community
  • u/StuartGT serves as interim top mod
  • New mods (2 or more) are selected in some fashion either by existing mods, Council, or community vote
  • A vote, either in the Council or the sub at large, to select the next top mod from the 4 moderators

Thank you.

CMDR Bloodhawk

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[–]LucatIel_of_M1rrahLucatiel of Mirrah (merc for hire) 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can I just say all this internet drama is highly entertaining. Its like real politics except with more drama and no real dire consequences.

[–]MemoocanDJ Dank Meme 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed

[–]DreamWovenDream Woven 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (13子コメント)

If spytec is overruling the council then why have a council.?What we've got is a dictatorship and nobody likes those.

My feeling is the a more democratic process is best and that it should be as open to the userbase as possible. So that it may be scrutinised and so that no abuse of power occurs. And to ensure the council and mods are serving the best interests of the userbase as a whole.

Afterall the point of the mods and council is to surely keep the sub a good place to use. They work for the people.

Lastly been here using this sub since the games beta, had no idea there was a council until all this drama.

[–]kristallnachte 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Especially if the council was appointed by the mods in the first place.

[–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | #NotMyModerator 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If spytec is overruling the council then why have a council.?

Exactly. It's an obvious farce.

コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

    [–]BeefVellingtonVintovka Dragunova [EIC][🍰] 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You covered everything 100%. Very thorough and exactly what's going on, even down to the minor details.

    [–]LiquidCatnipLiquidCatnip [www.EIC.club] 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Apparently this constitutes professional and defensible conduct.

    [–]NonyaDBNonya | remember, remember the 5th of NOVEMBER OSCAR NOVEMBER 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You best not be talkin' bad 'bout "your superior" like dat!
    Can we nickname her "Mother Superior" now?

    [–]LiquidCatnipLiquidCatnip [www.EIC.club] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Mother Superior

    That's actually really funny.

    [–]MemoocanDJ Dank Meme 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Wow what have I missed...I go away for a weekend lol

    [–]MIKE_BABCOCKHemsky 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (17子コメント)

    the Council voted overwhelmingly in favor (5 for, 0 against, 1 abstention) of making their discussions publically viewable. Despite this near-unanimous vote, the mods (likely Spytec) vetoed the decision.

    This makes me laugh incredibly hard, like this is the icing on the cake of the entire situation. I couldn't care less about it the rest of the stuff, but this, wew lad, is some top tier shit.

    First, the mod creates a completely unnecessary council hand picked by himself (including his girlfriend) to "represent the community" despite the community being against the whole thing.

    Then, when even his hand selected bunch of friends vote almost unanimously he fucking veto's it. Can't make this shit up. "We speak for the community, and the community says X" "Well I say Y so thats how it goes".

    Like do these people like having a subreddit revolt or something? Do these people love derailing the subreddit with drama? How can you make the wrong decision so consistently? There's two buttons here labelled "Do what the community wants" and "Create more drama", SpyTech clearly has turbo mode on and is slamming on that "create more drama" button.

    Look. The entire premise of the council clearly isn't to make the best decision's for the subreddit. I gave them the benefit of the doubt before because some of them actually had our best interests in heart. However, after this and the whole "my girlfriend is on the council" shit, it's clearly just a place where Spytec13's friends can hang out and get high off a tiny bit of power their status gives them.

    I've Modded gaming subs significantly bigger than /r/EliteDangerous, like three or four times the size of /r/EliteDangerous. I know about this shit. One could say I'm a fucking expert on dealing with shit like this. This is some small town shit compared to the crap I've had to deal with. The subreddits I modded didn't need a "council". We had 10 or so mods that implemented suggestions from the subreddit and fixed the spam filter. That was it. The amount of drama you've created and accumulated in the past 48 hours by far eclipses the amount of drama I saw in months a moderating significantly larger subreddits. It's actually impressive.

    Moderators are supposed to be Janitors, not Tyrants. You help the community make decisions, not make them for them. If you want to keep going on with this stupid council bullshit, feel free, its your subreddit, but you've basically decided to play on hard mode and you're acting like its our fault.

    [–]diddycarterDiddyCarter |2.3 Billion/Duke/Admiral/Elite in only 1wk 5days 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Moderators are supposed to be Janitors, not Tyrants.

    No truer words were ever spoken

    [–]SplodeyDopeSplodey Dope [EIC] 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Moderators are supposed to be Janitors, not Tyrants.

    Also a mod of a bigger sub and that shit right there should be written in stone and passed down for the ages. Its not like this is /r/BatFacts and the creator needs to keep his vision of the sub consistent. This sub is dedicated to a game and the mods' personal opinions don't amount to shit. Its about the game mods, not you.

    [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Moderators are supposed to be Janitors, not Tyrants. You help the community make decisions, not make them for them.

    Such a good point.

    コメントをもっと表示する (14 返事)

      [–]spectrumeroMack Winston [EIC] 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (32子コメント)

      It's so not transparent I didn't even know the council even existed!

      I agree that the council's decisions should be (read-only) visible in the interests of discussion, and either a sidebar/sticky pointing to the council so people have a fighting chance of knowing it actually exists.

      [–]kristallnachte 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Seems the council doesn't matter. If the council is appointed by the mods...what makes then functionally different than the mods?

      [–]JonticlesRinzler o7o7o7 | SDC | No fun allowed 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      It gives them an echo-chamber for their own ideas (carefully selecting council members that will agree with them).

      And if they don't agree then SpyTec just overrules them and does what he wants anyway. Yay democracy!

      [–]OnwardFlyingAnubite | Aisling's Angels 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Wolf in sheep's clothing, defined.

      [–]Fanta5m1cFANTA5M1C. Isn't that a Disney show? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      You know, I'm starting to wonder where the hell all of the reasonable, intellectually honest people of the world have gone. Everywhere I look it's safe spaces, echo chambers, disingenuous sycophants, and passive-agressive control freaks. Why is this shit invading my video games?

      [–]JonticlesRinzler o7o7o7 | SDC | No fun allowed 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Precisely. Since when were gamers this soft and pathetic?

      You know, I've got a lot of respect for you and Ranga. After what I did (which wasn't exactly noble), neither of you complained or whined about a "safe space" being violated.

      You both jumped into open and fought back. You're now PvP'ing with one of the best PvP groups in the game, and Ranga is taking his eagle-ramming dedication to levels that rival myself and Deathgrips. That's the sort of attitude that's lacking in this community, and it's good to see.

      [–]Fanta5m1cFANTA5M1C. Isn't that a Disney show? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Forget gamers, it's people in general. My generation seems determined to self-infantalize. It's so damn hard to find a real adult to talk to sometimes.

      Lol. Yeah he likes his traffic control eagle.

      I'm starting to see why most of AA likes you.

      [–]diddycarterDiddyCarter |2.3 Billion/Duke/Admiral/Elite in only 1wk 5days 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I didn't even know the council even existed!

      looks like 90% of the sub didn't even know the council existed. Imagine my surprise when this said council was handpicked by the mod instead of the community. Now imagine my surprise again when this said council voted for something and the top mod overruled that vote. So does that mean the council was there just for show and when the council makes a decision he doesn't like, he overrules it? WHAT A FUCKING JOKE

      [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (23子コメント)

      I agree that the council's decisions should be (read-only) visible in the interests of discussion

      We are currently discussing that amongst the Modteam and Council.

      and either a sidebar/sticky pointing to the council so people have a fighting chance of knowing it actually exists.

      See Subreddit Council under Dangerous Links in the sidebar. Prior to the sidebar layout change, the link was there, but further down.

      [–]BeefVellingtonVintovka Dragunova [EIC][🍰] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      We are currently discussing that amongst the Modteam and Council.

      Council already wants it to be read-only. In the end it all comes down to what the top mod wants. Honestly, I appreciate the replies here Stu and I've not no issue with you but I don't think anything is legitimately gonna change.

      [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (16子コメント)

      We are currently discussing that amongst the Modteam and Council.

      Really? Because Spytec literally just said the Council's viewpoint on this is irrelevant and pretty conclusively stated that the Council will stay closed-doors.

      [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (15子コメント)

      The Modteam is five people. We're discussing whether to:

      • read-only /r/EliteCouncil, which contains:
        • future surprise event planning
        • previous subreddit discussions and votes
        • many conversions unrelated to the Subreddit or even ED
      • use a new read-only subreddit for public /r/EliteDangerous-related discussions.

      [–]vsTerminusvsTerminus 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      To be honest, the whole thing is moot.

      There is nothing stopping the mods/council from just taking their private discussion elsewhere and not telling us about it. It takes all of 5 seconds to create a new sub or a discord server or something.

      I'm not trying to pick a fight or accuse anyone of anything here. Just pointing out that even if the EliteCouncil sub is opened for public viewing, if the council wants to have a private discussion it will happen.

      [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Exactly which is why there is nothing to discuss about, EliteCouncil should be public.

      [–]MIKE_BABCOCKHemsky 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I'm like 80% sure that the reason why they're so afraid of /r/EliteCouncil being open is because they're hiding something.

      It's crazy how much resistance they have to doing something so small.

      [–]CMDR_Shazbot[Alliance][M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Nah, we'll probably do but getting irate about it not a reason at all. I could care less about things being read-only because I actually can see the content and it's reaaaally interesting, let me tell you. Theres months of riveting submissions like '[Discussion] New rule pointing simple or small questions to Weekly Q&A' and '[Vote] Keep simple and small questions to Q&A thread' and '[Discussion] Colon removed from "Elite: Dangerous" text in banner?' oh and my personal favorite '[Vote] To become Elite "Council of Ricks"'.

      Not to be dismissive, but this shit is so wildly blown out of proportion that I've just got my popcorn out. The council is basically members of the community who are very active on the sub and have been here consistently over the last few years. Our primary goal in this sub is to keep it clean, relatively chill place to come post where you won't get berated, doxed, and try to foster interesting content being submitted. Subreddits are not democratic just look at reddits official rules on subreddit moderation, this was a completely unecessary effort to asking the regulars what they thought of ideas before pushing them-- /u/spytec13 set it up in an effort to do something good.

      Hate to say this, but I've been around since premium beta -- the combat logging videos hasn't done shit for years, and I doubt it's going to start doing anything now.

      [–]Raf_von_ThornRaf von Thorn. 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The things are piling, mate. Too many deleted posts, cheater protecting, pure arogance just annoys people.

      Just look at this years traffic. There IS something wrong and the community looks for way to improve things. Im sorry that the mods are in the way, but it should really make you think. Anyway good luck.

      [–]LiquidCatnipLiquidCatnip [www.EIC.club] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      [Vote] To become Elite "Council of Ricks"

      The council member who proposed that sounds like a swell fella. ;)

      [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Which is all very true.

      [–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | #NotMyModerator 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      It needs more than that. The council needs to be replaced wholesale with members chosen and elected by the community and Spytec needs to agree to abide by their decisions in matter that concern them.

      [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      The council needs to be replaced wholesale

      Does that mean booting the three members that voted against Monday's rule change, or the four that pre-emptively voted for making Council discussions public, or Tanj? Sems a bit strong. Everyone loves Tanj.

      [–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | #NotMyModerator 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Regardless of who voted for what, my personal opinion is that if the idea that the council is to represent the community is to be any more than a shallow pretense the entire council should be replaced with a new, larger council comprised of members (among whom might be some of the old members, if they are voted in) nominated and elected by the community.

      [–]tskaisertskaiser 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      And if some or all of those people are legitimately voted back in that will speak of the trust placed in them. Per your example: if everyone loves Tanj that seat should not really be in jeopardy, correct?

      [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      A point well made :)

      [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      With all due respect, the modteam includes 2 people who haven't been here in months, the person at the center of this controversy, and 2 others.

      [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Murdoc is away travelling (lucky him!) but still performs the occasional mod action and modchat with us during layovers.

      Shazbot performs mod actions daily, and commented on the sub yesterday.

      SpyTec is at the centre of drama.

      [–]sinsforealsinsforeal 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      We are currently discussing this

      What is there to discuss? It's not like you have any secrets from Fdev to hide ;)

      [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I wouldn't be surprised if there is some shit-post talking in that private sub-reddit and they are debating whether or not it's going to affect the reputation of this board.

      [–]sinsforealsinsforeal 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Oh don't worry ollobrains has been called so many names that it doesn't even phase him any more

      [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Believe me I wouldn't shred a tear if my name was in there.

      [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      see comment here

      [–]CMDR_Verax 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (8子コメント)

      Honestly this is so pathetic. The self-importance of these people is insane. What do they really think they're doing for anyone? Why does this subreddit need these specific people here to run things? This should already be over. It's clear the majority of the community see the top mod's actions as an abuse of power and a conflict of interest regarding the subreddit community and the PR objectives of Frontier. Remove u/spytec13 from the mod team, restore the rules to before this change, and be done with it. I don't get why we're dragging this out when the outcome is inevitable. Or is this one nobody being given preference over the community? I can't imagine why this individual's wants are being considered at all against the will of the subreddit community.

      [–]waterlubber42waterlubber - Fuel Rat - Simbad Regime - Port Elite to Linux! 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Or just give them the finger and start a new subreddit.

      [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      probably would be a good idea at this point or send a message to [A] reddit to get this clown out of here.

      [–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | #NotMyModerator 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      If only it were so easy. I would love to have a new Elite sub free of the bullshit that has infested this one, but it is so firmly entrenched in the Elite community that it's probably unrealistic to expect that it would ever take off.

      [–]SkipSh00terSkipSh00ter[Dreadful Nomads] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Give it a go?

      /r/EliteDangerousCMDR

      [–]CMDR_Verax 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Heck I'll sub. Never know how big a snowball will grow.

      コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

        [–]blood__drunkBlood Drunk | Knights of Karma 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        This is a great post.

        I'm afraid I don't have the time or will to crawl through any more posts on this - I just need to know: why is this "council" shrouded in such secrecy?

        I can appreciate the need for SOME conversations to occur in breakaway sessions, behind closes doors, but surely we should follow the lead of all progressive, democratic, leaderships and default to public debate?

        The House of Commons, Lords, the Senate in the US....these bodies are discussing - in open - subjects of far higher concern and of impact to many more people, than this "council".

        EDIT: Typo.

        [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Thanks for reading. The Council itself isn't necessarily a secret group, just not well publicized until recently. They themselves would prefer to be public with their discussions.

        [–]blood__drunkBlood Drunk | Knights of Karma 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        No, thank you for posting! :)

        Yes I had a good read through this thread and got that impression. I wonder if the lad "in charge" thinks he is protecting this reddit when in reality seems to be suffocating it.

        Very few people do bad things for bad reasons - usually they do bad things for good reasons. But then again of course the lad in question wouldn't be the first person to be motivated by the desire to remain in power.

        [–]rakujan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Christ, when drama within the subreddit is out ranking topics on the game itself you know there is a problem.

        Frankly attitudes like this from SpyTech damage us as a community and will lead to less awesome interaction with the Devs on here. Heck the community managers have enough to deal with, they're going to be less inclined to deal with people on here if the mods who represent us are acting like this...

        Personally, I'm of the belief you're doing more damage than good and you should bow out now with a modicum of dignity. I'd suggest opening up a strawpoll to judge how many others feel the same...

        [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        The damage is already done tbh spytec reputation is pretty much gone.

        [–]KevFerguson 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        But as he's chief mod, and seems to have an ego larger than VY Canis Majoris along with the power of veto of an unelected "representative" council, ousting him will not be easy.

        [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        lol VY Canis Majoris!

        [–]AskJ33vesExo_Andromeda - Federation Security - Lieutenant 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        What happened to the "CMDR RheaAyase is the saltiest guy on discord" comment?

        Mod's deleting anything against girlfriend/boyfriend (idk which)?

        [–]ChucklPuppies 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        This pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for ED in my eyes. A game's community keep it alive, devs are secondary.

        The ED community has always been something that I didn't want to interact with due to smug, elitist (hehe), ignorant and xenophobic behaviour. Problem is, the game is very lacking solo. Very lacking. Barely considered a game in my eyes (37 year old gamer, totally proud!), pretty graphics aren't enough to make a game IMO.

        A few "fanbois" that complain loudly and have a very much "Even if it doesn't affect me, I don't want it so you can't have it!" , attitude, have turned away many of my gamer friends and IRL friends as well. That is telling and disappointing. Not laying down Doom and Gloom, but never has a game succeeded when all of my friends have said "No. Not worth playing." Maybe ED will buck that trend but I'm not counting on it.

        Now there is some "Council"? Of known to be biased people? No.

        Why should the public need to know about the council when they're not involved as it is private as of speaking.

        That right above is bullshit. Obvious power grabbing, wannabe corrupt politician-like bullshit. Supposed ED fans are going to be the ones that ultimately kill the game.

        I'll tell you all one thing for certain. This council sure as shit does NOT represent my opinions on this game at all.

        All in all ED fills me with sadness. It could be SO GREAT! Alas, dreams die everyday. Hope this one continues on without morphing into a parody of itself, a walking dead ftp nightmare or something.

        [–]KevFerguson 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I'm a gamer with 10+ years on your age, and agree with your comment wholeheartedly. The vibe I get from the majority of mods on here smacks of immaturity and a lack of understanding of the more mature demographic of this game.

        I personally think that ED will outlive their tenures and the game will continue and improve over the 10 years it is stated as being planned for. Lets hope this community manages to mature at the same rate or better still even quicker than that.

        [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        This sub lost a lot of credibility in the past 48 hours, it's shocking.

        [–]SkipSh00terSkipSh00ter[Dreadful Nomads] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Help get /r/elitedangerouscmdr on the map

        Please

        [–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | #NotMyModerator 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Agree with all of this. This whole situation is super shady.

        [–]kristallnachte 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        How hard is it to just go "does it have to do with ELITE? no, get rid of it. yes, let it stay"?

        This sub doesn't seem so busy there is risk of hundreds of "omigod pretty star" posts a day.

        [–]Raf_von_ThornRaf von Thorn. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        But whats the danger of hundreds pretty stars? You can downvote or scroll down.

        [–]CMDR_RivertideRivertide | #OrcasOutForRinzler | Dump SpyTec 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (69子コメント)

        If you feel strongly about this, I'd suggest hitting the Unsubscribe button. A significant drop in subscriber numbers might help effect a change.

        [–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | #NotMyModerator 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I advise everyone who feels uncomfortable with this whole situation to do this.

        [–]kristallnachte 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I wish I could, but I'm not subscribed

        [–]ChucklPuppies 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Done.

        [–]tfaddy 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The active user count is what matters more tbh, not the subscriber count.

        Unlike what most people may think, most people that have subscribed won't even notice or care about this drama, and a large portion of them barely visit the sub anymore too probably (it's just how gaming communities are, people move on).

        Though the people that feel disheartened by this would likely be individuals who contribute to general sub activity but also content, so a drop in that would be noticeable, not sub numbers even if enough people would even make a dent to that.

        I'm not in support of the boycotting thing, I'm just voicing what I think lol.

        [–]VoggixVoggix [EIC] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Because when you care about something the best thing to do is quit right?

        [–]KrysoKryso |【AKB☆E】| 【HS ζ HS】 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        It wouldn't necessarily be quitting, but more giving them actual numbers to look at instead of estimating via angry comments. Some people might be more willing to show their disapproval by pushing a button than getting involved in a debate. However, sub count on its own might not be as effective, since a good majority of the 65,000+ subs aren't regular contributors/commentors.

        [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Not every subscriber submit a reply, many people lurk and read. I would image those who are very active would deeply affect the quality and content of this sub. Food for thought.

        [–]KrysoKryso |【AKB☆E】| 【HS ζ HS】 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        That's part of my point. Those who lurk may not be interested in a debate, but may still do something that doesn't involve direct confrontation.

        [–]StormBeforeDawnStormBeforeDawn-Glory to the Emperor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Iv'e never subbed, I visit the sub directly when I want ED content.

        コメントをもっと表示する (60 返事)

          [–]diddycarterDiddyCarter |2.3 Billion/Duke/Admiral/Elite in only 1wk 5days 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

          spytec has done a lot for this sub and i know his wiki helped me when i was new in the game . but after reading his comments on here and his comments on the post one of the council members made , i am very disappointed and just flabbergasted with his comments . i mean whats the point of having a council if he is just gonna overrule whenever he disagrees with the council ? wtf

          [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          He's a child what do you expect.

          [–]AskJ33vesExo_Andromeda - Federation Security - Lieutenant 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Agreed, I found his spreadsheets for exploration and work on wiki very useful but lately it seems all this power has gotten to his head.

          [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I don't think the wiki had any major update or revamp since last year. At this point someone could just step in and make a better wiki. He's clearly losing interest in the game and it shows in the decisions being made in this sub.

          [–]ObtuseMoose87Chuck Moonstorm, SDC - More kills than you. 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (33子コメント)

          It would in fact seem there is a clear conflict of interest here, should this information hold true.

          Edit: Looks like our sub is now turning into a dumpster fire, and our fearless head moderator adds a nice dose of gas to the flames. What a shame.

          Ever heard of "servant leadership" before?

          [–]AskJ33vesExo_Andromeda - Federation Security - Lieutenant 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (36子コメント)

          Wait I remember /u/ RheaAyase, This person once made multiple accounts to manipulate a post that made about the creation of obsidian orbital. I even remember catching this person out at the time. People like this should not be anywhere near the council.

          [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          plz consider re-wording your post to avoid witch-hunts

          [–]RandomNumberSequenceRebecca Hail [Federal Agent/Fuel Rat] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (33子コメント)

          Evidence?

          [–]AskJ33vesExo_Andromeda - Federation Security - Lieutenant 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Gotcha. Commenting and replying to your self. Nice. http://i.imgur.com/36A47MK.jpg

          [–]AskJ33vesExo_Andromeda - Federation Security - Lieutenant 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (26子コメント)

          Evidence

          tinfoil hat on, but your account /u/ RandomNumberSequence seems like a throw away used by (said person) with only 2 other comments.

          [–]SpyTec13SpyTec - Wiki Admin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Funny how instead of people wanting evidence, they downvote it because circlejerk. /u/AskJ33ves, you made the accusation, where's the proof?

          [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Curious how you feel the need to ride to a total random's defense

          [–]AskJ33vesExo_Andromeda - Federation Security - Lieutenant 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          SpyTec comes in to save the day :)

          https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4gosep/regarding_the_council_and_the_mods/d2kioao

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]PipsimousePipsimouse™ 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (7子コメント)

            I like how this place is slowly BUT steadily eating itself. It's quite amusing to watch from a safe distance. Let's say from the Andromeda galaxy?

            [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

            Andromeda galaxy coming Season 9 - New Horizons

            [–]JonticlesRinzler o7o7o7 | SDC | No fun allowed 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            $200 "expansion"

            [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Early access get a free blowjob...uh I meant paintjob.

            [–]JonticlesRinzler o7o7o7 | SDC | No fun allowed 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Same thing if you do it right ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

            [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

            ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

            [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            never look at a paint roller the same way again

            [–]veldrin05Veldrin Hedgehog [EIC] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Is red paint normal?

            [–]Ornee_ShaulaOrnee Shaula (TheRevivalOfLore)) 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I would like to officially make a motion to admit CMDR Sundae of the SDC to the council, this would prove there is no conflict of interest and would give balance to the council... No I'm not trolling I'm very serious...

            [–]Lord-FondlemaidLord Fondlemaid [SDC] (Everyday Sadist, Full Spectrum Warrior) 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Hear hear!

            [–]JonticlesRinzler o7o7o7 | SDC | No fun allowed 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Sundae for president!

            [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Very good post. I'm actually impressed with the quality of this suggestion. I agree Spytec should be benched and replaced by StuatGT. He's shown high immaturity & childish behaviours and biased judgement. It's hard to believe he's representing this community considering the devs take part in discussions in this sub.

            [–]_chrootchroot 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Throwing a sub vote for a new head would make sense, but is this democratic?

            [–]tfaddy 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (75子コメント)

            I'm in no position to ask you guys to, but please try being respectful: Otherwise you risk invalidating your own arguments. (On top of breaking the universal "don't be a dick" rule)

            [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I'm trying but it's Spytec throwing around ad hominems.

            god that sounded childish

            [–]BalurithAzorius Erisai (Carebear) 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (72子コメント)

            Yeah, seriously. Yes, there's a conflict of interest with Rhea and Spytec and all, but please, people, let's try to not wreck their relationship over a fucking subreddit.

            [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (71子コメント)

            dude it's not our fault if she brought this drama on herself. Her private life became public the moment she started telling it out loud on discord and on this reddit. I don't feel any sort of sympathy for a delusional individual.

            Don't blame the community... also why should we care about the outcome of her relationship SHE publicly acknowledge her relationship!

            [–]CadocCadoc [Utopia] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            The wait for 2.1 is really getting to me too, but I just can't get invested in this drama. The one mistake the moderation team made was even creating that farce of a "council" - no successful subreddit has anything similar. Just stick to the current rules, do away with the veneer of listening to subscribers and let's continue as we always did, it has worked well.

            Btw this post let me know that the subreddit Discord is a thing, so thanks for that.

            [–]CMDRSamSlade 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (20子コメント)

            Is this for real: I had hoped this would be better then the loathsome Frontier forums.

            If all this drama is a community wide issue can you not petition the reddit mods for mediation?

            [–]NouvArchitect 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (15子コメント)

            can you not petition the reddit mods

            No. Subreddits are run at the top mod's discretion.

            [–]Phil_T_CasualPhil_T_Casual | SDC 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (14子コメント)

            Wrong. If moderators are using their position to make decisions in conjunction with outside 3rd parties that affect a sub, and those decisions benefit that outside party, Reddit Admins will step in. It has happened many times before.

            [–]NouvArchitect 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (13子コメント)

            That isn't even remotely close to what's happening in this sub.

            [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            The same exact situation happened on /r/destiny a while back and reddit stepped in and removed 2 or 3 mods if my memory isn't wrong.

            [–]CMDRSamSlade 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (10子コメント)

            FDev staff presence on the r/elitedangerous official Discord and on going interaction with an FDev Community Management team who demonstrate an abject bias towards specific, often divisive concepts (one can rationally assume in furtherance of their marketing agenda/strategy) suggests otherwise.

            The arbitrary decision to withhold community management discussion and information as it relates to the subreddit added fuel to the speculation fire.

            コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

              [–]AscensiamFrijaz | FREE RINZLER 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This is the effect blindsiding has. If the council had been transparent from the start, we'd have seen some mildly hot-tempered debate threads popping out. But hitting us out of the blue with an internal decision that had been made irreversible and non-negotiable at that point is why this subreddit is now in a revolutionary mood. The worst part is that a little foresight could've literally prevented all of this drama from happening. The lack of this foresight is what has made me lose all confidence in the council. I did not know there was a veto, i am truly sad to hear so. Now it seems more like a kleptocracy trying to stay in power.

              [–]CMDR_Agony_Auntdedicated BGS PvPer 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

              I propose /u/tanj_redshirt as lead moderator!

              What do you say to that tanj?

              All in favour, say Aye!

              EDIT: See reply from tanj - nobody in their right mind would be a moderator!

              [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              anybody from the mod team but spytec would be fine.

              [–]tanj_redshirtTanj Redshirt (filthy neutral) 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              No. Seriously, no. I'm talking "Deadpool on International Women's Day" levels of No.

              [–]StormBeforeDawnStormBeforeDawn-Glory to the Emperor 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Hence why you should be the one in charge lol.

              [–]CMDR_Agony_Auntdedicated BGS PvPer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Heh, its what I expected. Thanks for commenting.

              [–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | #NotMyModerator 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Yes.

              [–]sushi_cwTannik Seldon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

              [–]jc4hokiesEdward Tivrusky VI | 0 CR Balance[🍰] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

              A couple thoughts about the issue council, how it is intended to work, how it failed in this case, and consequences of making significant changes.

              First, the issue council is not intended to be representative of anything (the playerbase, the subreddit, player groups, etc). It is a select group of intelligent, informed, rational, invested, objective individuals with the goal of coming up with solutions to problems posed to the subreddit. It functions more like a company board than an elected body. The council is expected to fully understand all sides of an issue, and arrive at a collaborative solution.

              I don't know the specifics that culminated in the rule change, but my understanding was a redditor was doxxed and the issue council was presented with the issue of preventing doxxing. The inevitable solution is to prevent people from being a target; there simply is no other preventative measure. I feel the disconnect is that the council's objective is to solve problems. In some way, it lacks the frame of reference to determine which problems are its responsibility to solve.

              My take on the ordeal is that, while the council arrived at a reasonable solution to prevent some doxxing, such action is not justified. Making a post naming a cheater does not condone, inspire, cause, or contribute to doxxing in anyway. Any doxxing related to posted cheater is influenced by some additional context, which is certain to exist with or without an associated reddit post. As such, it was never a problem for the issue council to solve.

              I think some proposed changes to the issue council have a real possibility of reducing its effectiveness. I think that transparency, while not terrible, is a knee jerk reaction which doesn't particularly help. I think as part of comprehensive discussion, and it is desirable for issue council members to describe points of view they don't personally hold. Having discussions public would discourage members from considering positions that are not popular, and possibly result in less comprehensive solutions.

              I also think that having a representative council isn't particularly effective. First, it introduces politics into decision making. Second, there is no correlation that individuals who are proportionally representative of the population, are also gifted at critically examining issues. Third, the mandate to come to a consensus on rules and represent a segment of the population don't synergize very well.

              Anyway, my thoughts are not first-hand, second-hand, or even third-hand. It's just my independent attempt to make sense of this controversial decision. If I'm mistaken on anything that's happened, or the intent/purpose of the council, I'll be quick to change my opinion.

              [–]kristallnachte 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I can't agree more.

              EVE Online and /r/eve are against doxing but have no rules against witch hunting, name and shame, or anything like that.

              And everything is fine.

              And that's a game that is widespread known as having a mean ruthless player base.

              And with all that, the devs regularly post in the sub, sometimes even reddit shitposting, not just major announcements.

              [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              but also known for having an extremely respectful and dedicaded player base.

              Have you ever been to EVE fanfest?

              [–]kristallnachte 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              When I was playing I was unable to.

              I have a long love affair with EVE but don't play anymore.

              My point was mainly, SURELY if naming and shaming is a problem, then /r/eve would be a demonstration of it.

              The worst case I saw was Erotica 1 being banned from the game, but that wasn't because of the sub, so much as a major blogger painting the game as a cesspool of hatred all caused by one player that was then picked up by news outlets who didn't research anything and continued the story.

              [–]Elite-PhoenixPhoenix | NaCl | 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Indeed, you don't need to be exposed as a cheater to get doxxed..

              https://youtu.be/gedVHbgIt7c

              [–]NonyaDBNonya | remember, remember the 5th of NOVEMBER OSCAR NOVEMBER 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It is a select group of intelligent, informed, rational, invested, objective individuals

              I think the past 48 hours have shown this to not be true at all, otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.

              [–][deleted] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

              I just want to play a video game. Maybe this is the wrong place for me.

              [–]KrysoKryso |【AKB☆E】| 【HS ζ HS】 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              Indeed. Reddit.com isn't a video game.

              [–][deleted] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              You're right. o7

              Space is better, we can settle petty disputes with lasers and flack.

              [–]JonticlesRinzler o7o7o7 | SDC | No fun allowed 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              No. Only dakka.

              Many dakka.

              [–]KrysoKryso |【AKB☆E】| 【HS ζ HS】 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Soon 2.1 will bring the ultimate dakka builds. I cannot wait.

              [–]TragedyTrousers 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Depends. Do you hate the video game you want to play? Hate the devs? Hate the other players? Hate the volunteers who organise the sub? Then you seem to be welcome with open arms here.

              /u/SpyTec13 must have the patience of a saint - I'd have bounced them all months ago, personally.

              There's a reason most of these dramatic types are banned from the forum. Just sayin'.

              [–]SkipSh00terSkipSh00ter[Dreadful Nomads] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This is turning into a subreddit about a subreddit.

              Fact is, this sub is or could be called the "official" subreddit of Elite:Dangerous. It's frequented by the devs and such and they know the complaints we have about the game without it being linked to videos on this sub. My opinion is, let this quarrel die. Let this sub be what it is intended to be and let the powers that be do what they're here to do.

              [–]NikkoJTNikkoJT, IS Windjammer 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              reddit politics are srs bsns you guys

              [–]AndersonDGAnderson DeGrear - FDev Ambassador - Interstellar United 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I remember when this sub first started before the game came out and all we did was play Elite: Dangerous.

              [–]Mk1Md1 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              All this drama and I'm over here still butthurt about having a post removed because I didn't mention Elite in the title.

              Gotta say, watching the mods take a lashing in every other comment is pretty satisfying in a petty passive agressive way.

              [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I know oh the irony.

              [–]khalimwuKhalimWu 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (26子コメント)

              you guys have to realize that their discussions can be misunderstood without the proper context. being open for the public means anyone can read something they dont understand (or dont want to research), make false assumptions and start a flame war. people are lazy and dumb by nature, its up to each one of us to overcome that, not all do. they do, however, need to announce their discussions... at least show they are not talking on our backs, but there is no need to risk misinformation and have to do damage control, later on, because of people's stupidity

              [–]MIKE_BABCOCKHemsky 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (14子コメント)

              you guys have to realize that their discussions can be misunderstood without the proper context.

              Very true.

              The main problem is though that there's zero way to actually figure out the context since all decisions are made in the lead mods secret clubhouse.

              [–]kristallnachte 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (9子コメント)

              And how is that worse than never being able to see?

              [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Well actually what you're afraid of is exactly what's happening, because decisions get announced without context of the discussion

              [–]Monolith12True Monolith 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

              This is crazy and it's totally getting out of hand.

              This has got nothing to do with the naming and shaming discussion. All I see is a bunch of people who misunderstand forums, feel entitled to have stuff like they want to and generally want to - pun not intended - powerplay here.

              I'd rather have a normal reddit forum for the game. Thank you.

              [–]TrillenA much better pilot than Ed Lewis 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              That's what we want too. But a power tripping mod is preventing that

              [–]A_Fhaol_BhigCrusina 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Yay more witch hunting.

              [–]TrillenA much better pilot than Ed Lewis 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Do you know what witch hunting is?

              [–]Amezuki -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (16子コメント)

              I am shocked, shocked I tell you, to see that the OP of this post is one of the noisiest and most aggressive critics of the policy that led to this tempest in a teapot.

              It's worth stepping back for a moment to understand that the policy change that triggered all of this is the same common-sense prohibition on naming and shaming that exists in the vast majority of responsible gaming communities. In most of which, I might add, you have no right to expect a vote of any sort in how the community is moderated.

              The only purpose that naming and shaming posts actually serve is stirring up outrage towards a targeted individual. Strip away all the loaded rhetoric about transparency and cronyism, and that's what you're really left with here: a relatively small number of people who are very passionately arguing that they ought to be allowed to incite harassment against other players, either indifferent to or ignorant of the fact that once you incite a mob, you are no longer in control of the consequences.

              Edit: oh look, the downvote brigaders finally decided to show up. You kids have fun with that.

              [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Do you not realize spytec reputation has gone down to -1000 karma in the past days, that's a pretty good indication of dissatisfaction. The majority of people who posted were all in favor of his removal. The rule change was just the culprit of the problem which reached a mediocre 35%. It's pretty clear to me people want this sub to change for the interest of the community and not a few selected individuals.

              At the end of the day this is reflecting on the overall quality of this sub and how future players perceive us. If I was a new user and I saw this drama I would probably think twice about the quality of content CONSIDERING FD's is involved in this sub. There is nothing healthy about the current situation.

              [–]kristallnachte 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              the ban on naming and shaming has no effect on anything though.

              Hell, in EVE Online, people can very easily hunt you down, and smash all your sandcastles, and naming and shaming isn't banned and that has caused no problems.

              In Elite, you can really not do anything to anybody, so it matters even less.

              [–]jc4hokiesEdward Tivrusky VI | 0 CR Balance[🍰] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              The only purpose that naming and shaming posts actually serve is stirring up outrage towards a targeted individual.

              In response to a combat log being publicized (on youtube because it's against the rules now) this CMDR felt sincere remorse for their action and even saying:

              This week has been a massive learning experience for me in Elite Dangerous, and I'm only starting to see the true depths of this community i would most certainly like to be a part of.

              Post

              [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              this comment should be its own damn thread

              [–]SplodeyDopeSplodey Dope [EIC] 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

              The only purpose that naming and shaming posts actually serve is stirring up outrage towards a targeted individual.

              Wrong. Seeing those posts tells me that should I encounter this player in game, I shouldn't waste my time interacting with him/her do to their being a poor sport and a cheater.

              Also, having to edit names out of videos displaying such behavior makes it a pain in the ass and fewer people will post them. This in concert with the official forums suppression of criticism gives FDev a free pass on their shitty multiplayer implementation and makes it less likely that they'll make any effort to improve it.

              [–]KrysoKryso |【AKB☆E】| 【HS ζ HS】 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

              To add onto your point, all it does is help further remove the publicity of the gigantic issue that is combat logging. Not only to the PvP community, but also to the game. It's blatantly obvious that FDev hardly lifts a finger to punish those who exploit and cheat the game, this has been seen in the past where known scripters and combat loggers would be seen day after day despite multitudes of reports against them for their actions. The only thing we have is to keep it public so FDev can continually see how disappointed a good chunk of their players are at this issue, but with the censorship of these posts that's almost impossible now.

              Whether or not people want to believe it this is highly detrimental to this game. That problem alone has driven quite a few players, including me, away from the game and I wouldn't be surprised if it's also driven away new players. Just think about it: Player just got the game, logs in, gets ganked and sees that other CMDRs who are trying to hunt the guy will never be successful because all he has to do to avoid any consequences is pull a plug. How enthusiastic do you think said person would be continuing the game? (I bet /u/mrsilk13642's group deals with dozens, if not hundreds, of these kinds of people :p)

              On top of the aforementioned scenario you also have the complete ruin of the profession that is piracy. There are a few reasons for this, but the largest being that almost every trader you interdict are going to log before you can even do anything, which ends up in paying more than what you earn in hull repairs. I've quite enjoyed pirating in every game I've played that's included it, and this is the only game so far that's managed to drive me, and a couple of smaller player factions I was a part of away from it. So now we're at a game that claims to support all roles, including the criminal, but nothing's being done about the sorry state that is the criminal roles. Something as small as the log out counter resetting back to 15 seconds upon taking damage would be tremendous in helping curb this problem, and I'm honestly surprised and rather disappointed that wasn't how the timer was implemented to begin with.

              Naming and shaming posts is not equivalent to doxxing, nor is it to witch-hunting. As I've said many times in the past few 24 hours it's really counter-intuitive to ban a whole kind of post because there's a very small chance of something bad actually happening. Traffic tends to lead to road rage, and you don't see traffic getting banned anywhere.

              Edit: accidental a word

              [–]MrSilk13642S!LK, Founder [Adle's Armada] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Player just got the game, logs in, gets ganked and sees that other CMDRs who are trying to hunt the guy will never be successful because all he has to do to avoid any consequences is pull a plug. How enthusiastic do you think said person would be continuing the game? (I bet /u/mrsilk13642's group deals with dozens, if not hundreds, of these kinds of people :p)

              We see.. A LOT of combat loggers and cheaters. So much that it is so common what we don't even care anymore, we just report it via chat and move along lol.

              [–]KrysoKryso |【AKB☆E】| 【HS ζ HS】 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              We see.. A LOT of combat loggers and cheaters. So much that it is so common what we don't even care anymore

              Which really shouldn't be the case. It gives the game a terrible look to new players, and probably isn't do any favors in regards to how current players think about the game.

              [–]MrSilk13642S!LK, Founder [Adle's Armada] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Yep, I agree completely.

              [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              and that is when you realize you have a major problem.

              [–]MrSilk13642S!LK, Founder [Adle's Armada] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Oh it is a big problem.. But unfortunately there isn't anything we as users can do to remove these people and posting people on here without reporting them on the game is a waste of time as this isn't a valid reporting method. If it is a blatant log or a repeat log, we will report them and i f they're assholes about it, we will report them through the ticketing service with a video for evidence. Local chat shaming works too sometimes, especially in a busy system like Eravate.

              [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I am shocked, shocked I tell you, to see that the OP of this post is one of the noisiest and most aggressive critics of the policy that led to this tempest in a teapot.

              You mean unhappy people are unhappy? Excellent observation sir.

              vast majority of responsible gaming communities.

              data?

              The only purpose that naming and shaming posts actually serve is stirring up outrage towards a targeted individual.

              lol what? do you even read replies to your own linked post

              [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (40子コメント)

              • Moderators reverse their veto of the most recent Council vote

              I am hoping to have the vote re-opened.

              • SpyTec steps down as a moderator, and takes a seat on the Council in recognition for his many valuable contributions to this community
              • u/StuartGT serves as interim top mod
              • New mods (2 or more) are selected in some fashion either by existing mods, Council, or community vote
              • A vote, either in the Council or the sub at large, to select the next top mod from the 4 moderators

              We as modteam see no reason for any of these things to happen. SpyTec's an excellent topmod, and the community were extremely happy with his ability prior to this week. In-fact, prior to Monday the community has been extremely happy (edit: subjective opinion) with the ability of both the Modteam and Council to run the subreddit.

              [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (38子コメント)

              community were extremely happy with his ability prior to this week.

              prove it

              [–]Ornee_ShaulaOrnee Shaula (TheRevivalOfLore)) 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Oh really?... Can you link me a post from someone congratulating him on his fantastic work on this sub? People use this because it's a little less outrightly biased than the official forums team of SS Waffen moderators that ban people for talking about PvP, this sub just crossed the line into that territory with it's obvious and stinking conflict of interest that smells like Elo Knight and Wicked Princess in Eve online and their twisted sycophantic empire of nastiness

              [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Rhea reminds me of the whole CCP Chipmint & Wicked Princess drama lol...which didn't end very well if memory serve right.

              if nobody knows what im talking about google it, it's pretty funny.

              [–]kristallnachte 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              And that didn't really affect /r/eve

              [–]SoleHunt3rSole | SDC | 1337 SIDEWINDERS KILLS 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              They had to add new rules and ban prominent figures that's the whole reason why it was such a big deal at the time. I believe some CCP employees had to resign because of the whole drama.

              [–]kristallnachte 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Yes, and they didn't need to ban naming names.

              コメントをもっと表示する (33 返事)

                [–]NonyaDBNonya | remember, remember the 5th of NOVEMBER OSCAR NOVEMBER 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I am hoping to have the vote re-opened.

                Well, according to SpyTec's recent comments it seems you can shit in one hand and hope in the other and see which one fills up faster.
                Pro-tip: it will be the shit-hand.

                [–]RheaAyaseRhea "Truth, Honor and Justice." ~ rhea-ayase.eu -7 ポイント-6 ポイント  (138子コメント)

                Stop dragging me into this, I've nothing to do on reddit and i don't want to do anything here. Leave me out of it please.

                • Discord is not subreddit and has nothing to do with it.
                • I am not a moderator of either place, I am not on council - i was half a year ago when we started dating with SpyTec. I also never voted on anything proposed by him, and vice versa. I was there as a representative of the Discord and PvP community.
                • Discord should not be discussed here, as nobody here has anything to do with it or any say in it. If you have a problem with it, bring it up on the discord. There is a channel for it, to access this public feedback channel use !join MetaAccess command (as described in the #info_and_rules channel)
                • I also replied in the thread to LC who shouldn't have brought the old drama up in a [serious] thread about something completely unrelated.

                Edit: Please before you downvote, understand that my statement is serious and important, not any kind of drama, so don't downvote just cause you hate me. Leave my statement here for others to see. (it's not "i disagree" button)

                [–][削除されました]  (71子コメント)

                [deleted]

                  [–]JonticlesRinzler o7o7o7 | SDC | No fun allowed 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  it was all anime shit that had nothing to do with ED

                  EliteWeeberous

                  [–]ObtuseMoose87Chuck Moonstorm, SDC - More kills than you. 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Discord is total shit as it is, adding that kind of bullshit just makes me ecstatic I never joined in the first place.

                  Also, who the fuck nominated Rheya (spelling? I don't care honestly) as the "ambassador of the PVP community?" I have never once seen her (?) in game much less throwing down in a wing fight...

                  [–]MIKE_BABCOCKHemsky 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                  On top of that when I joined discord it was all anime shit that had nothing to do with ED so I had to make a hasty exit from there.

                  hahaha that's exactly what I said pretty much verbatim "Oh a elite discord server, what the fuck is with all these stupid anime gifs"

                  [–]StuartGTGTᴜᴋ 🚀🌌 Watch The Expanse[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                  in the offtopic channel?

                  [–]mindfckrClam Chowder 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                  STILL making that argument? You really don't get it, do you?

                  [–]KrysoKryso |【AKB☆E】| 【HS ζ HS】 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  On top of that when I joined discord it was all anime shit that had nothing to do with ED so I had to make a hasty exit from there

                  While I'm not really vested in this argument I would like to say that shit literally only happens in a single channel. There's an #elite channel for all your elite-related needs, and the #general channel with image previews disabled. So basically #offtopic without the image spam and trolling.

                  #offtopic can be very... Interesting... at times, but I've gotten into quite a few interesting discussions in there. Point is, if you don't like a channel just simply ignore it and chat elsewhere.

                  [–]mindfckrClam Chowder 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  That isn't how community servers work. All channels are representative of the community and its organization. Note the consensus among all the people here that felt the need to be vocal about it.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (56 返事)

                    [–]yomamabeatBloodhawk | Triple Dagerous[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (38子コメント)

                    I've dragged you into nothing, I'm merely stating known facts.

                    Discord should not be discussed here, as nobody here has anything to do with it or any say in it.

                    Except you have advertised it as the official Discord for this subreddit.

                    [–]mindfckrClam Chowder 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                    Originally the Discord server was for the subreddit to talk and it was an extension of the subreddit that I created. However as it grew the ownership got transferred to Rhea and it was under her ruling, it got new rules and it ultimately became a separate entity to the subreddit, ... Rhea wanted the name change too, I didn't. However after a while, a month back, the name was changed because the Discord became stable enough to not have the /r/EliteDangerous tag on it.

                    Oh!

                    Discord should not be discussed here, as nobody here has anything to do with it or any say in it.

                    Oh.

                    Except you have advertised it as the official Discord for this subreddit.

                    Oh?

                    Yep, i was told to by someone whom I respect. I take orders from him, no the other way around.

                    Oh :(

                    Yall need to get your stories straight.

                    [–]spectrumeroMack Winston [EIC] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    You must understand though with the council being secret (even if you left 6 months ago), and you being romantically involved with Spytec, it was extremely poor judgement of him not to stand down as a moderator once your ambition to work for Frontier Developments was known (you have at least implied you wanted to work there, there's a comment kicking around about you complaining that you'll now not get hired by them, which does at least suggest you had an ambition to work for them).

                    The conflict of interest is huge, otherwise. For instance, with you wishing to represent the PvP community - and the whole naming/shaming thing for combat logging/cheating possibly being something that embarrasses Frontier, you can see how people will draw the conclusion that the rule change was at least in part motivated to help your chances at fulfilling your wish to work there.

                    Now this might not be the case, but with all the opacity surrounding the moderation process, people will come to these conclusions because humans naturally like to fill in the gaps by deducing what might have happened. If you don't want people to come to these conclusions:

                    • Ask your partner to step down at least as top mod, preferably step away from the moderation process altogether.
                    • Ask your partner to change the process to a transparent, open one, so people can see for themselves that the conflict of interest doesn't exist.

                    You will save the pair of you a lot of stress and heartburn if you do these things.

                    [–]RheaAyaseRhea "Truth, Honor and Justice." ~ rhea-ayase.eu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    I never had ambition to work for FDev, because I knew that my involvement the community, and the fact that they won't hire anyone remotely, stand in the way. I did try my luck, but it ended exactly as expected. Also I applied after i left council and stuff, and we did discuss what will we do if i do get hired, as in, discord ownership would be transferred to someone else, etc etc etc... It didn't happen, no point doing anything.

                    The comment about me complaining about this is because i thought that it shows how much did i invest into this community, what did it cost me. Apparently people just picked it apart and took it as another reason for trolling and making fun of me heh... I was stupid to start with it in the first place.

                    No the rule change was not motivated by anything, and the discussion about it started the day Foxhound doxxed alleged combatlogger. If i knew that they are going to post this sticky about it, I would have told them off, to try to find a better solution than simply banning it. There has to be a better way somewhere, more of a middle ground...

                    Ask your partner to change the process to a transparent, open one, so people can see for themselves that the conflict of interest doesn't exist.

                    I can't ask him anything, we genuinely never speak about reddit... After yesterday, when i read here that he vetoed the vote, i got mad at him why did he leave people thinking that he did it - he didn't... it was "mod team" collectively who stopped the council vote, not just him. Why does he take all the hate? He's stupid for that. They stopped the whole council transparency because it's not safe, council members should be anonymous and protected, people should not know who said what. People should only know what was said, and what was voted, and to be able to throw their word in, but should not see who voted for what, that's not right and could cause more pain to the council members... Anyway the point is, he didn't do that, and it was done collectively because they are looking to a different, hopefully better solution. People need to chill and trust them a bit. Contribute in peace, mature conversation, don't lynch people...

                    What is ridiculous is how they consider public lynching of two contributive people a good idea. I never expected this to happen in our community and it will have impact.

                     
                    I'm sorry i think that i completely lost track of my words at some point, i hope that what i said is understandable eh...

                    [–]Outllaw[HCS Voice Packs Community Manager] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Absolutely not. That completely destroys any concept of democracy and people 100% should be accountable for what they say. If they are worried about what they say a position that makes decision for other people is not the place for them.

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                      [–]NonyaDBNonya | remember, remember the 5th of NOVEMBER OSCAR NOVEMBER 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      No mod position should ever be held by any one longer than 6-12 months.
                      Once someone has been a mod in this subreddit they can never be a mod in it again.
                      Term limits!

                      [–]tskaisertskaiser 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      You'd need a benevolent dictator for life as topmod to keep that system running, otherwise it becomes a very bad idea once you accidentally stumble upon that one person who refuses to hand back the reins. It'd probably happen right quick.

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