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[–]ddr330Capn Murica | The Code | Free o7o7o7 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The ironic thing is that, by his own (incorrect) definition of doxing, /u/SpyTec13 had to "dox" Rinzler to put together the "evidence" in his post.

Btw, organizing a bunch of funny memes for a day doesn't count as breaking reddit's brigading rules, and neither does googling someone's game or reddit handle count as doxing.

inb4 I'm banned for naming and shaming

Edit: my flair was deleted. at least I wasn't banned. /u/SpyTec13, did I accidentally dox Rinzler? stop being so triggered.

[–]Blackneto 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (1子コメント)

add to that the misapplied definition of "brigading".

If there was a subreddit rule against "low-effort" posts then i could almost see the point.

but no there isn't otherwise every "asp in front of something" post could be removed.

/u/SpyTec13 must step down.

[–]maegglemaeggle - PM me your Orca in front of things 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wasn't low effort on Rinzler's behalf, since he got in touch with people and organize something stupid yet entertaining, to let them create some non-malicious content together, to point out the issue with the overly annoying and mostly low effort "after ${amount of time} I (finally) got ${asset}" posts. :)

[–]BPOPRBlast McLargehuge | /u/SpyTec13 must step down 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Flairs being critical of SpyTec are being deleted. The pettiness is reaching hysteria levels.

[–]CMDR_Bad_PilotingCode 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's our community and we are the ones who feed it content. The users are the lifeblood here.

If we feel a rule is outdated or just plain not applicable, why keep it in the system? This place could use some humor, and it could certainly do without the ban hammer swinging.

[–]AmethystWarlockTychonas [Not An Alien Spy] [EIC] 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We are not the community, at least according to Herr Spytec. We are visitors to his magical realm and only allowed to remain here by his grace.

[–]Hunterm101 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I agree, but...

Inb4: Reddit does outline that the moderators are responsible for the content of their subreddit, and additionally are not actually required to explain any of their moderation choices to the community.

[–]CMDR_Bad_PilotingCode 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And we have the option to foster the community the way we want to. What happened yesterday and the day prior were two separate shows of force. One from the community saying let's fuck off for a day, and the other from certain moderators who said let's ban em all and let God sort it out.

The heavy handedness is what kills a subreddit. Fdev listens to us, why can't the mods?

[–]notshizulteShizulte | FREE RINZLER 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The heavy hand moderation is what get's me. A moderator losing his position for adding some flavor and fun for a day is crazy.

[–]MulsanneMulsanne Sarthe 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Technically correct. But the reality is that in good thriving communities, the moderators always exist to support the will of the community. The job is to make possible the more difficult and less guaranteed parts of a high volume subreddit, i.e. Civil discourse, high quality content that isn't drowned out by meme and so forth.

Yes the sub is basically theirs to do with what they want. But, what a good moderator should want to do is to use the sub to serve the community that has formed around it.

[–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | Thank you for not cheating 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Moderators don't have to be accountable to anyone in particular. Good moderators, on the other hand...

[–]Elite-PhoenixPhoenix | NaCl | 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Notice how the thread is labelled as 'griping'.. I have to say the behavior of the mods of this sub is abysmal.

[–]ryan_mryan_m17 | FREE RINZLER[S] 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Screenshotted it and put it in the edit.

[–]AblaekQirion 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And now, whining...

[–]AblaekQirion 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And now psa

[–]Elite-PhoenixPhoenix | NaCl | 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Its now 'whining'. Frankly I think spytec needs reported to reddit. Throwing around slanderous allegations isn't something that should be taken lightly.

I also wonder if the press would be interested in this. Whatever I think we need a better platform to discuss the game, I'm really not sure making a new sub, even if it did become well subscribed, really solves the problem.

[–]belliesboobsnbutts 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doubt the press or anything would be interested. Ultimately, if he's the top mod either we continue to express our displeasure at his actions or he steps down. I've seen subs completely locked by moderators who decided they had enough of being criticized for doing the job they volunteered to do.

It's a game subreddit, those posts were harmless. I was laughing when I checked the sub that day, it was a nice change of pace from "any news of the aliens? Oh, no? Bye."

[–]ZapnessZapness 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looks like it was changed to PSA.

[–]MulsanneMulsanne Sarthe 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is case in point. This is just not how moderators should engage their community. You guys volunteered for this. You don't get to act put upon.

[–]BPOPRBlast McLargehuge | /u/SpyTec13 must step down 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pathetic. No one this thin-skinned should be an internet janitor...

[–]fishreds99 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is such a coherent, well researched, and well articulated post.

It will surely be removed.

[–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | Thank you for not cheating 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (11子コメント)

/u/Spytec13, I'm just going to state the obvious here: as this post relates to you personally, you can't be objective here. Like yesterday's post, moderating this post yourself would be very poor form. Get another mod such as /u/StuartGT to do it.

[–]Gooblibloo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Like stuart is any better.

[–]ElethiomelZakalweElethiomel Zakalwe | AA | Thank you for not cheating 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's open for debate, but at least the obvious conflict of interests is removed.

[–]VaehVaeh 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He was vehemently and wrongly repeating the same 'doxxing' bullshit in that thread as well. Seriously, instead of engaging in an discussion he kept denying.

It's reaching the level of bias and inability to accept differing opinions and criticism that ChristianM or Loetmichel have already proudly claimed for themselves.

[–]ChristianMCocalarix -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He was vehemently and wrongly repeating the same 'doxxing' bullshit in that thread as well.

And then he apologized and banned himseld for a week for his post and behaviour in that same thread.

They are very different types of people.

[–]Mr-SkellyMr Skelly [ban spytec] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for you post! Unfortunately is has been removed for the following reason(s):

Naming and Shaming

Not directly related to Elite Dangerous

Misuse of the [Serious] tag

Flaming

Provoking conflict

Saying something negative about the mods

Whining

Not posting a picture of an asp in front of an object or a cat

Please edit and resubmit your post.

[–]Nazgutekdouble stuffed RNG shitshow of a time sink FREE RINZLER 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just had to restore my flair, which had mYsTeRiOuSlY disappeared.

[–]Nazgutekdouble stuffed RNG shitshow of a time sink FREE RINZLER 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And it keeps on disappearing. How very strange.

[–]monkberg 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've got no strong ties to the community, I've got no special skin in the game other than being just another CMDR trying to make my way in the universe - hell, I don't even hate PVPers since I mostly play solo for now, so no salt from me yet (may hop to open in future).

With no agenda and no sides to take, I can say it's ridiculously unprofessional for a mod to remove comments that reasonably criticise them, or to handle moderation in a thread criticising them. It's also unprofessional to label a thread like this "griping" or "whining".

I don't even care about the shitposting at this point, whatever you think about rinzler's tempban at least it'll pass, but this coupled with the closure of the council subreddit is just bizarre. Backlash like this doesn't come out of nowhere, and if it happens it's a sign that you done goofed.

Even if the mods are doing nothing wrong, they have to be seen as doing nothing wrong. Transparency and community participation matter because they build trust, and if you don't have the respect or even the bare trust of the community you claim to serve you have nothing.

At the rate we're going I hope the community figures out a good way forward, or we might end up pulling a NoMansHigh and forking the community with a new subreddit. We'll all be poorer in the latter situation, so I really hope it doesn't come to that.

Well if I get B& for this o7 CMDRs and for the record it's been entertaining being in the same community as you all.

[–]CaptainHoyt 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The supreme glorious leader SpyTec has added two new moderators to his collection, I'm sure they're kool dudes but without a doubt they're on a "do as I say or loose your privileges" basis.

I would like to see our mod team made of people that actually play the game and contribute to this Sub, a team made up of traders, miners, bounty hunters, explorers and yes PVP'ers. now That Rinzler is gone us Hated people have no representation in the current Politburo.

[–]WinterCharmWinterCharm | IW (founder) | GCI 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's how it's always been, and its one of the worst things about this sub reddit.

SpyTec and Rhea are pretty immature when it comes to most things. Rhea still likes to lord over the official discord, despite having stepped down as mod here.

SpyTec just needs to go.

[–]CaptainHoyt 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You should put your name forward to be a mod or at least a member of this "council"

You've got experience modding, you're a mod of several elite related subs, and you've helped so many people in this sub with the "Welcome CMDR's" thread. You are the mod we deserve.

Edit: my Dyslexic brain failures.

[–]VatscoveNyxi 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i hate when my privileges go loose

now That Rinzler is gone us Hated people have no representation in the current Politburo.

we still got 1-2 people, i'm sure they are just looking at any indication to remove them though.

[–]AmethystWarlockTychonas [Not An Alien Spy] [EIC] 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow. This is a whole new level of pettiness. /u/spytec13, dude, just step down. There's no reason to stick around other than some immature power trip. It's damaging the community of a game that you don't even play or care about and we do. The community is showing you the door. If you have even a single shred of adult thinking you really need to listen to what people are saying. Your cronyism is simply disgusting.

[–]BPOPRBlast McLargehuge | /u/SpyTec13 must step down 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/SpyTec13 needs to step away from moderating this community -- even temporarily.

The community needs to come to some consensus on common-sense rules. The number one source of information about this video game that many enjoy should not be ruled by fiat.

[–]MulsanneMulsanne Sarthe 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. There's a pretty serious issue of moderation in this subreddit. Moderators should serve the community they volunteer to support. That is what respecting the moderator position means to me at /r/formula1.

I don't see that here. I see a slow and ineffectual response, that's wide of the facts on the ground and lacking in basic decorum.

It's no way to run a railroad.

[–]PzkpHagglebeard | Pirate | Ban SpyTec 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bump.

This needs to happen. SpyTec is a bad leader.

[–]Nazgutekdouble stuffed RNG shitshow of a time sink FREE RINZLER 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yesterday I learned that posts that don't break the rules in any way can be removed by the moderator team* at will, instead of relying on the community to just downvote anything that doesn't fit.

* Which I also learned yesterday actually means SpyTec13 and the people SpyTec13 picked as moderators that always agree with SpyTec13.

[–]Enverex -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yesterday I learned that posts that don't break the rules in any way can be removed by the moderator team

How new are you to Reddit?

[–]Nazgutekdouble stuffed RNG shitshow of a time sink FREE RINZLER 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How new are you

I'm quite old, thanks for asking.

[–]Enverex -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

*to Reddit.

Then surely you've seen that the main issue with subreddits is moderators removing things arbitrarily? Even from massive default (or ex-default) subs like /r/news or /r/politics?

[–]Hunterm101 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. The moderation team, here is incredibly insistent, and have trouble enforcing the rules that actually seem to be productive to an online community.

[–]VatscoveNyxi 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

as much as i hate to say it this sub will always (probably) just be a dictatorship. Which under the rule of 1 person can be pretty cool as long as that person is fair and honest.

That doesnt work all the time, people just arent (usually) fair and honest, i'm a good example of that and thats why i have beumer and jamie and others to help moderate my discord.

The beneficiary of that is why it just doesnt work on this subreddit, in the discord, i share the same power as my moderators even though i "own" the discord. I dont have some elevated power above the other moderators like what happens in this sub.

It baffles me what an online forum, fake internet points, and internet power can do to people.

[–]notshizulteShizulte | FREE RINZLER 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

While I understand the basic rules of reddit and /u/SpyTec13 's rights to run the sub as he damn well pleases, as OP states, we the users also have a right to voice our opinions and request change. I, for one, would much rather participate in a community whose mods act as representatives of said community while performing their duties, in lieu of dictatorial/oligarchical ones. Although this site would never work as a republic format, I feel /r/EliteCouncil was a worthwhile and beneficial sub and support OP's request for reinstatement. I would also support a change in top mod. I'm not calling for anyone's head here, just for someone more in tune with the game and community. There's never been a question of the heavy hand of /u/Spytec13. At this point it feel like we're past just moderating.

[–]DiamondWolf332DarkPhoenix332 |Xbox and PC| Free Rinzler 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This type of behavior, marking the post as whining when people have legitimate concerns, is exactly why we need a restructure of the mods. Like I said on that Discord yesterday, it's quite pathetic Mods are taking themselves so seriously and that this is even a problem, mods should act better than this (Btw I got banned from that discord by Spytec's puppet rhea).

[–]FYIIdecloakFYI I decloak | Lavigny Intergalatic Insurance Adjuster 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

EDIT: and now the thread is labelled griping, which further makes the point. EDIT 2: now it's whining

Holy shit, how much more proof do we need of the immaturity of the moderators? And their lack of proper judgement.

[–]AmarthanorAmarthanor "Amar" Epsilon / Iridium Wing 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How old are these mods? It's starting to seem like it's a bunch of 12 yr Olds who played to much CoD

[–]SpaceNinjaBear 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

On one hand, I can understand how mods would fill that flooding a subreddit with joke/meme posts can be disruptive to community discussion. On the other hand, I and many others felt those posts were actually funny. It was only one day during the weekend on an otherwise slow day.

They fit the forum requirements of being about game content. They weren't AdviceAnimal memes or anything like that; they were actual screenshots (well, except for that one photoshopped image of David Braben on Mars with a teacup.)

They were funny for that one day, and I believe that if it had carried on any longer than that, the humor would have been worn out and most would have been downvoted on their own.

You see, communities like this can actually be self-moderating to a degree. I believe we would have collectively reached a point where we said, "Alright, ALRIGHT, enough is enough," and those posts would have subsided on their own, without any interference from mods.

I mean, I get it. You're a mod of a nearly 90,000 user subreddit. You want to do a good job and make sure the community isn't spiraling down the toilet with senseless posts. You feel it's your duty to moderate and keep the subreddit on track. You can do that, but, like raising a child, you can't hold their hand every step of the way. You've gotta step back sometimes and let them do things on their own, for both their sake and yours. Otherwise you're going to be absolutely exhausted trying to control/moderate every aspect of their lives. And I think the same can be said about a community like this.

I'd wager most people in this community are within the 20-35-year age range (obviously with a few outside of that on either end, but that's to be expected.) That seems to be roughly the age demographic here. While I appreciate the mods' efforts to maintain order here, I do feel that they maybe overreached a bit chasing after the ones who started what was basically a harmless prank. I hope I'm not overestimating the abilities of the community here, but I believe we can be mature enough to handle something like this on our own.

The worst that happened was some good content got pushed to the bottom of the subreddit, but I believe most of that eventually found its way to the top anyway when people grew tired of the meme posts on their own and upvoted anything that wasn't another "After X time I got Y" post.

I don't believe anyone should have been banned over it. Maybe a stern warning to cut it out if it persisted longer than a day. As others have already stated, sometimes it's good for a normally pretty serious subreddit to be silly every once in a while. If people didn't find the posts humorous, they wouldn't have been upvoted as much as they were. Also, as others have stated, it brought our community closer in a way. We all got to come together and laugh at ourselves. I'm sure most of us here have posted something like what those posts were teasingly making fun of. That's all it was.

Sorry for typing an essay. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

TL;DR: I believe the mods were maybe a bit too harsh reacting over what amounted to a simple, mostly harmless (heh) prank. After about a day, most of those posts would have been downvoted to oblivion as we, the community, would have gotten tired of it on our own without the need for mod intervention.

Edit: Reworded a couple of points for clarity. Thanks for reading. :)

[–]NitekPLNitek [pl] NaCl 2500+PK | Spytec has to go 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/SpyTec13 How much more has to happen for you to step down?

[–]Insaniac99 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In before more bans are handed out.

Seriously though, I agree with everything you said.

[–]virgil2600virgil260 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bets on this getting removed?

[–]StandingByToStandBy~~Braus~~ | Zero Four | FREE RINZLER 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I recall saying things were coming to a head just a few days ago. Come on guys, lets be on the same team here.

[–]ChristianMCocalarix 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (9子コメント)

In a thread I posted in /r/EliteCouncil and here as well, after the whole naming&shaming thing took place, I recommended:

Increase the number of Council members by allowing every major active group on the sub-reddit to appoint 1 representative. This way the voice of hundreds of players is added in the council with minimal effort.

Cherrypicking members from the community was never a good idea in my opinion, and I say that as a member of that "council".

[–]25_MODULAR_TERMINALS6 million kills confirmed 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I say /u/ollobrains should be a major member of the council.

[–]ollobrainsUA BOMB EVERYTHING LETS BURN THE GALAXY DOWN 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

id decline it . i dont have the time . im not really interested in the behind the scenes politics . im totally biased and loaded and probably wouldnt be a good unbiased candidate . ive been accused of being u/davidbraben and that wouldnt work either

[–]_Xavter 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ive been accused of being u/davidbraben and that wouldnt work either

.....it all makes sense now.....

[–]AmarthanorAmarthanor "Amar" Epsilon / Iridium Wing 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

But ollo, come on you'd make a great mod.

[–]SoMuchF0rSubtletyE1ghtRoundsRapid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Community Spotlight: UA bombing and how it affects you!

[–]AmethystWarlockTychonas [Not An Alien Spy] [EIC] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I second.

[–]ChristianMCocalarix 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's the top authority in UA bombing and a connoisseur of the BGS. He should definitely be on the council!

[–]Dogtag 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Great, more drama from /u/SpyTec13 and /u/StuartGT .

This subreddit deserves better.

[–]ChristianMCocalarix 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Stuart has been a pretty level headed guy so far. He even apologized and banned himself for a week for his post.

Let's make sure the finger is pointed in the right direction.

[–]BPOPRBlast McLargehuge | /u/SpyTec13 must step down 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's still fickle and inconsistent.

[–]Rodinia2Rodinia | Engineer Grinder 4 lyf 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The posts the other day were brigading if you use a massively wide definition of the word. The doxxing accusations had nothing to do with the original posts, but apparently were an integral part of the so called argument against the posters.

If you are going to mod, make sure you know how to do it. Keeping everyone in a community happy is not possible some times. Hard decisions that may not be popular need to be made. Don't make them on a whim and what seems like a personal vendetta against a certain person and the groups associated with them

Just cuz you can say anything in a position of power does not mean you will not be called on it. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that rules were broken with proof. Not a bunch of loosely connected screenshots, which as far as I could see, broke no actual rules. They were nearly breaking rules. But who remembers who nearly won an Olympic medal in the 100m sprint.

[–]Gooblibloo 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Spytec and Fuart have proven how out of touch and emotional they are without showing any signs of regret so far. They kept fucking posting """""evidence"""""" of brigading or some shit in hopes that will prove their point but the community obviously doesn't give a shit if rinzler broke the rules or not. They have over reacted and they can't be trusted to not do it again.

[–]keepersorb 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Inb4 post removed for naming and shaming

[–]SoMuchF0rSubtletyE1ghtRoundsRapid 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow. This really did escalate quickly.

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[–]CMDRRaptis 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

TIL This reddit is now a small dictatorship somewhere in the Empire.

[–]_Xavter 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

in the Empire.

No, the Empire values honor.

[–]4sonicrideArburich 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll gladly become a mod of /r/EliteCouncil. I may be a devil's advocate at times, but I can guarantee that I will try to keep things civil and open.

[–]Extronix15Yonti 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I personally agree moderation here isn't very moderative at all. Rules aren't enforced and its mostly just a name to be a mod now. The ED community is growing and the mods aren't :/

[–]Torstane 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As someone who only occasionally drops into this sub but reads the official forum quite a bit, is there any connection between the Reddit moderators and the official forum moderators?

I've never seen an issue with mods on here but I've certainly seen moderation on the main forum becoming "questionable" over the last year or so.

[–]NoHombres -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

In my opinion mods did a good thing. Reddit is no place where community can run freely and post repetitive same posts and images without any consequences. This subreddit must remain clean of teenagers gone wild with boring memes and let other normal users to discuss things they like and about the game they love. Some people are excited if they get a cutter because they love this game and love to play it. PvP people are just toxic and want to make this game to their image. Boring circle of grinding and killing innocent commanders.

[–]brianpmackbrianpmack | Deku Scrub 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

PvP people are just toxic and want to make this game to their image.

Everyone can be guilty of trying to make the game to their image.

[–]ToCoSofreelance creative engagement officer -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jesus you guys sure no how to whine, live with the mods decisions, its just a reddit you guys take eeeeverything way to seriously