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submitted by mymomisproblematic
My 5 year old daughter recently started going to a new school. I've always packed her lunch and it's never been a problem. However at her new school there are "nutrition guidelines" for brought from home lunches. They must include one serving of meat, one serving of dairy, on serving of grains etc.
My daughter is vegan and has been since birth, so obviously I'm not going to send her to school with meat and dairy. She eats very healthy and I pay extra attention to making sure she gets the proper nutrients. For the past couple weeks she is continually coming home with "your lunch needs improvement !" notes. Which are notes given to students who's lunches don't meet the guidelines with the missing food group highlighted. So my daughter keeps bringing home notes with the "dairy" and "meat" sections highlighted. I wrote on one of them that we are vegan and I will not be packing meat or dairy in her lunch. The teacher wrote back:
"The nutritional guidelines are mandatory and decided by the district. We ask that you please respect them. Thank you!"
So at this point I'm rather annoyed and I emailed the principal explaining the situation, today I finally got a response that said:
"Thank you for contacting me. The nutritional guidelines for school lunches are set in place by the district and must be followed. What you feed your student at home is your business. However, when at school certain nutritional needs must be met. We understand certain students may have very specific dietary needs that make this difficult. In your case we ask that you please send your child with a vegan dairy substitute as well a vegan meat substitute each day. It is important that students eat a healthy balanced lunch each day to help them focus and learn. If these rules are not followed it may result in disciplinary action. Thank you for your time. "
Now if you aren't totally familiar with veganism you might think this is fine. Just send her with some vegan dairy and vegan meat right? The thing is vegan cheeses, yogurts, meats and other things are not something you want to be eating everyday. They are more of an occasional food. I am just not willing to have my child eat vegan meat everyday, it would not be healthy. I don't know what to do at this point, do I email the principal back? What do I say? I'm honestly annoyed at this, my daughter eats a healthy lunch each day, much more healthy then a student eating say, a bologna sandwich and a yogurt drink...and yet those things fit with the nutritional guidelines. What do I do?
top 200 commentsshow all 454
[–]AnnaLemmaA Ravenclaw trying to parent a Gryffindor -.-[M] [score hidden] - stickied comment (0 children)
Sorry to do this guys, but this post is getting locked - it's gone way off the rails. OP, please feel free to update us as the situation develops.
[–]cmcg1227 650 points651 points652 points  (21 children)
I would respond to the principal that you ARE sending meat and dairy substitutes with your daughter - they are the foods she already eats. Maybe try explaining that your daughter gets the proteins one would normally get from meat via the (insert those items here) and the calcium from dairy from (insert here). Then finish the email saying that if this explanation is unsatisfactory, to please respond with the contact information of the person at the district level who you need to get in touch with resolve this issue.
Also explain that the "traditional" meat and dairy substitutes that are sold commercially don't actually contain the same nutrients as the "real thing". So by asking you to send those, they are defeating the purpose of the meal nutrient guidelines.
You could also ask for the macronutrient content range that lunches need to provide. How many grams of protein, fat, sugar, carbs, etc. That need to exist in her lunch in order to comply with the nutritional guidelines.
[–]gypsy_teacher 189 points190 points191 points  (15 children)
Vegan substitutes are often expensive and highly processed as well. Honestly, are they sending this to every parent who sends their kid to school with a PB&J every day (like I do, because those are mine's favorite)? I mean, that , a juice box, a piece of fruit, and a granola bar or crackers...is vegan.
[–]cmcg1227 73 points74 points75 points  (2 children)
Vegan substitutes are often expensive and highly processed as well.
The school/district doesn't give a crap about how expensive and processed they are. There's nothing in their "rubric" of food that says how processed the food can be, because that's too complicated for them to make rules about. They also won't care how expensive they are, because they will just tell OP to send her daughter with less expensive meat and cheese.
Your arguments are true and legitimate, the school just won't care.
Regarding PB&J - OP stated that she's not in the US, so PB&J might not be as popular. Also, its quite possible that as many US schools have done, PB&J isn't even allowed due to allergies. I thought about it too, and that could be why it doesn't come up.
The entire rule is asinine and coming from a place of the school district trying to do a good thing (ensuring that kids aren't being sent to school with a bag of chips and a granola bar), but forget to use common sense and end up creating stupid problems for themselves and parents who are actually feeding their children extremely nutritious foods.
[–]bonestamp 15 points16 points17 points  (1 child)
OP stated that she's not in the US, so PB&J might not be as popular.
Based on her grammar and word choice, I'd give it a 99% chance that she's in Canada. In which case, PB&J is nearly as popular as it is in the US, if that helps.
[–]GeorgiePorgie16 40 points41 points42 points  (9 children)
Where do you live where you are still allowed to send PB in a school lunch? Even our damn granola bars need to be nut free.
[–]VanderLegion 22 points23 points24 points  (3 children)
Our sons preschool can't have peanut butter, but he still gets pb&j with sunflower butter in place of peanut butter
[–]EggSLP 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Sun butter is delicious
[–]TheNoteTaker 12 points13 points14 points  (0 children)
I live in San Diego. Daycares tend to not allow peanut products, but most public schools do.
[–]The_Gr8_CatsbyChildless Elementary Teacher 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
In my area PB&J can be packed. They're even sold in the cafeteria.
[–]InTwoWorlds 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
Our district allows PB and nuts. The kids that have an allergy have their own area and all kids wash their face and hands after lunch. My kids don't always get a PB sandwich but it's their go-to most days.
[–]genivae 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
That's how it is in our district, too. Most kids have PB&J at least once a week.
[–]jmurphy42 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Our kid's district (in IL) has some schools that are nut-free and others that only have a nut-free table in the cafeteria. If a kid's allergic enough that they can't be in the same room as a PB&J the district buses them to a nut-free school. The rest of us get to send PB&Js to school.
[–]Kakita987 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
My son's school is peanut free. I can't send anything with peanuts, and peanut butter is a huge no-no.
[–]mosura1 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Our child's school (Connecticut) allows PB in the lunchroom, as kids are not allowed to share lunches..., but no PB allowed in the classroom for snack time. edit: clarity
[–]standardtissue 45 points46 points47 points  (2 children)
This is the point where I tell the local government to get the hell out of what I pack my kids for lunch. I wouldn't even bother arguing it with them.
[–]cmcg1227 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
Normally I would agree, but OP mentioned something in another comment about "disciplinary action" (presumably towards her daughter I'm not sure though).
[–]JBiziB 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
Agreed. I would think the school would have to tread very lightly here. Sounds to me like forcing the issue could bring on a nasty lawsuit.
[–]-Chemist- 164 points165 points166 points  (13 children)
What sort of disciplinary action? They're going to come to your house and ground you? Surely they can't punish a five-year-old for the lunch her parents packed. If it were me, I'd just ignore the warnings. It doesn't sound enforceable at all.
[–]kevinnetter 82 points83 points84 points  (0 children)
I am responsible for feeding my children, not the school.
I'd tell them I'm going to send what I send and call the police if they are really that worry about.
This is really stepping over their responsibility.
[–]yo-yo-baggins 8 points9 points10 points  (7 children)
I have seen stories where they take the kids bring home lunch from them and replace it with a sandwich and carton of milk.
[–]chucksilo 37 points38 points39 points  (5 children)
This happened here. A lunch worker took a kids lunch and threw it away calling it unhealthy. They then gave the kid chicken nuggets from the cafeteria and sent a bill home with the kid. The parents raised a stimk bit the school board stood behind the volunteer. Had that happened to my kid it would have been what we call a Chuck goes to jail day.
[–]2boredtocare 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Had that happened to my kid it would have been what we call a Chuck goes to jail day.
Ha! I love this line, because I can sooooooo relate. Jesus. Things like this make no sense to me. I'm a smartass, so I'd send some sort of "meat" product that could just stay in the box every day without being touched (salami? pepperoni?) and and empty carton of dairy something. Like I would go so far as to tape it to the top of the box. FFS. I've heard a lot of ridiculous things, but this takes the cake. My youngest does not eat any meat, and I'll be damned if I'm sending something everyday I know she's not going to eat!
[–]owlpee 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
I can't believe all this is even a thing?!
[–]MBCnerdcore 33 points34 points35 points  (0 children)
As sad as it is, its not uncommon for kids to be forced into detention or social isolation (not allowed to eat with other kids, sit in the corner type stuff) for the decisions their parents make. In the last 15 years, school boards have gotten rediculous with their policing of student nutrition.
[–]Masiajade 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
Like that whole "permanent record" racket.
[–]keeksg 278 points279 points280 points  (17 children)
I agree with getting a note from your doctor.
Does your daughter like non-dairy milk (almond, soy, hemp, etc.)? You could always send something like that.
Personally I'd probably label 2 Tupperware containers "vegan meat substitute" and "vegan dairy substitute" and pack what you want in those. I doubt the staff at the school have a clue about what constitutes those for vegans, but if they are clearly labeled as such they shouldn't have much pushback.
I realise this is from Canada, but this is the food guide used here, which offers alternatives to dairy and meat. Maybe provide the school with something like this?
[–]mymomisproblematic[S] 106 points107 points108 points  (13 children)
We live in Canada actually! Thank you :) Having to label the label the containers seems so ridiculous to me but I might try that if it gets them to back down a bit
[–]Ivaras 113 points114 points115 points  (2 children)
I'm also in Canada, and this sort of lunch policing was a huge issue in Ontario (Durham Region) a few months back. No matter where you are, they have no actual authority to enforce their guidelines, so how you proceed is up to you.
You can send them back a letter that states that their latest response shows blatant ignorance of how balanced nutrition is met through a vegan diet, and by extension, they have demonstrated that they are unqualified and unfit to judge the nutritional content of your daughter's lunch. You are well within your right to flatly state that you will not be discussing the matter further with them and that the contents of your child's lunch are not to be subject to their inspection, commentary, or criticism again.
[–]HasFiveVowels 15 points16 points17 points  (1 child)
OP needs to basically copy this straight into an email and send it their way.
[–]gormla 65 points66 points67 points  (0 children)
Where in Canada? I am a Canadian teacher and a vegan and this sounds ridiculous to me. I'd be the teacher arguing the rules alongside you!
[–]GrammaMo 22 points23 points24 points  (1 child)
Maybe a yumbox would be a good idea? The sections are labeled already so just fill them up with whatever and it'll be obvious to the teacher what the meat and dairy alternatives are, even if it's stuff like legumes and broccoli.
[–]inkathebadger 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Yeah a friend of mine was having a bit of a rant about this as well. I often bake the snack portion of my son's lunch so it looks like he's getting cookies and so on each day but I'm using the whole wheat flour or lots of fruit to make them. She was having trouble where her daughter was being bullied for having ham sandwiches. It's hard enough getting your kids food that respects allergies and so forth, but if they try and shame us when we are making things outselves and knowing exactly what went in it (which is cheaper and more likely better).
[–]Explodicle 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
It's just countering absurdity with absurdity, should work.
[–]karma3000Dad - 3.5 y/o girl 25 points26 points27 points  (0 children)
Personally I'd probably label 2 Tupperware containers "vegan meat substitute" and "vegan dairy substitute"
Put Tofu in both.
[–]cadabra04 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
This is also what I would do. If it's coming down from the district, the teacher probably just wants to be able to check a box and move on. Put whatever the heck you want in the labeled containers.
[–]MommyMcMomFace 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
This is a great idea. You could even include in the label "vegan meat substitute = 12 grams of protein", etc.
[–]TheHatOnTheCat 90 points91 points92 points  (2 children)
I would not go back to the principal or anyone above them without medical back up. Talk to your child's doctor and maybe a nutritionist on your insurance. Have them write or sign a letter to principal saying that vegan meat and dairy replacements are not nutritionally equivalent to meat and dairy but instead meant to give people the same enjoyment. They are not healthy foods and should not be eaten every day.
Then something like they have reviewed child's meal plan with you and you are doing what is best for child's health. They hope the school district will not insist you feed your child foods they, your child's doctor, does not want them to regularly have. If the school has any further concerns about child's health, please contact me (doctor) and I will determine what is best for my patient and inform parent if any changes need to be made. Currently, I am expecting parent to stick to the meal plan we have already discussed and that I as a medical professional have determined is best for (child).
[–]jt004c 39 points40 points41 points  (1 child)
Nutritionists are not professionally educated. You need a dietician.
[–]alwayshungryformex 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Like all healthcare professionals, checks the credentials of the nutritionist. Technically, I am a nutritionist because I won't sit for the registered dietitian board exam, but I have as much if not more formal education on the subject (MS, certifications, etc.) as a registered dietitian. RD's also are very often taught government standards, so they are very likely to back the school. I've worked with many, many RD's that can regurgitate the USDA MyPlate (Food Guide in Canada?) information, and that's it. Anything outside the norm (veganism, low carb, athletes, etc.) may be outside of their expertise if they didn't specialize in that specifically. Just double check and be aware that a 'nutritionist' is more likely to be helpful with this subject, but they're going to need some awesome credentials to be taken seriously by a school board. An online class in nutrition they got off Groupon won't cut it.
[–]charcuterie_bored 391 points392 points393 points  (13 children)
Wow, that is just so fucking dumb. I would get a note from the pediatrician and tell them to fuck off.
[–]LoveSalmonDinners 56 points57 points58 points  (2 children)
Agreed. I'd take it to the school district, those guidelines are ridiculous you surely can't be the only parent.
[–]beka13 47 points48 points49 points  (1 child)
They feel like they were written by lobbyists from the meat and dairy councils. I'm nowhere near a vegan but I am quite sure that people can be healthy without meat or dairy every day.
[–]Lutya 12 points13 points14 points  (0 children)
I really liked this TED talk that talks about how we only need half a pound of meat a week nutritionally but we eat half a pound a day.
[–]waterbuffalo750 29 points30 points31 points  (7 children)
If the pediatrician will give a note.
[–]Lutya 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
I'm sure she could get something saying she meets nutritional guidelines with the food she's supplying (as long as she is).
[–]Anivair 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
This is a great idea.
[–]Pete_IredaleDaughter 5/27/15 68 points69 points70 points  (4 children)
Good lord. Even if you do eat meat you sure as hell don't need a serving of meat and dairy with every single meal! This is completely asinine.
[–]SuedeVeil 14 points15 points16 points  (1 child)
That seems crazy to me too! My kids don't eat meat at every lunch and not always dairy either. It would make a whole lot more sense to say "protein and calcium" source at least give people options for petes sake
[–]lindsaychild 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
My son's daycare does at least one vegetarian meal a week and one vegan meal a week in the interest of variation and education. These rules are ridiculous!
[–]gazwel 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
I think not all kids get proper meals at home so this might be the schools way of making sure they get at least one?
[–]blekkjaDad to a 7 yo boy, 2 yo girl with one on the way! 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Not even every day, in fact. We should really be eating smaller amounts of better cuts, much less often. Also moving away from having meat as a centrepeice of every meal, and treat it as more of a seasoning or something to add a little extra interest to a dish which would be delicious enough even without it.
[–]circle_of_flame 85 points86 points87 points  (7 children)
I don't understand how they have time to check EVERY SINGLE LUNCH for EVERY SINGLE "requirement" for EVERY SINGLE KID. Like are they actually going up to each kid and rifling through the lunch box, one item at a time?
[–]winter_puppy 22 points23 points24 points  (3 children)
I work at a relatively small school for my area (~500). Some in my district top 1,000. How many people must they have in that lunchroom???
[–]ilovebelle 11 points12 points13 points  (2 children)
Same here! I barley have enough time to blow my nose in the two hours I have lunch duty.
[–]StingsLikeBitch 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
Heh, barley....
[–]ilovebelle 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Haha!! It's been a long day.
[–]beka13 22 points23 points24 points  (0 children)
They probably don't but now that OP's kid is a known offender, they're probably making an extra effort you check up on her lunch.
[–]Oursweetuniverse 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
I don't agree with this at all. But in my elementary school, I'm also Canadian, we didn't have lunch rooms. We ate in our class. It's likely that it's the teachers responsibility to check their own students lunches. So around 25-30 students. Still a lot but not 500.
[–]bridgettearlee 23 points24 points25 points  (0 children)
No way I would abide this. My daughter is pretty much a vegetarian, she's 6 and has never liked most meat despite the fact my husband and I both eat it. Now, just because I eat meat doesn't mean I'm going to force my child to eat something she hates. There are other ways to get protein, calcium, etc.
If your child is healthy there is zero reason the school should be forcing this strict a policy. If I were in this position, I would have her physician back me up in writing and fight this policy should they pursue disciplinary action as threatened. I'd start keeping a log of what I'd packed each day to have a healthy food history at the ready. I'd consider the PTO and a school board meeting if it continues to be a problem.
Also, I'd ask them for proof that vegan meat and dairy substitutes are a) especially nutritional and b) are actually nutritional substitutes for meat and dairy not just cosmetic substitutes. Ask them to provide evidence that meat and dairy are the ONLY ways to acquire these certain nutrients.
This is a healthy food initiative (which I generally support!) gone too far in its execution. Good luck momma! I am rooting for you!
[–]meatloaf_again 23 points24 points25 points  (2 children)
We were at a daycare that received federal money and had these guidelines. I had to pack foods that I knew my then 1 year old would not eat, otherwise they would charge me a fine for not following guidelines and an additional fee to "supplement" his lunch. We ended up leaving that daycare over this and some other rules. Obviously, you can't just leave a school. Perhaps if you don't want the battle, just buy a shelf stable meat and dairy product that can remain in her lunch box for appearances sake.
[–]PandaObsession 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
Can you imagine the teacher going by to check each kids lunch and here is this little kindergartener chowing down on her well balanced nutritional vegan lunch with a plastic ham and cheese sandwich and an empty milk milk carton sitting next to her? lol!
[–]cjandstuff 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
We've had incidents here where kindergartners were lined up, and had their socks checked to make sure they were all white, and the girls didn't have any lace on the ankles. Yeah schools can get out of hand with checking things especially if they're at risk of losing federal money over it.
[–]soundstripe 58 points59 points60 points  (6 children)
Would it defeat the purpose to just put some jerky and some aged Parmesan in a plastic bag and tape it to the lunchbox permanently?
[–]Vicker3000 38 points39 points40 points  (2 children)
As a vegan myself, I wouldn't want to buy jerky for any purpose. However... if it were me then I would be tempted to buy a fake "jerky" and "block of cheese" made out of wood from the local toy store.
[–]Kakita987 19 points20 points21 points  (0 children)
This is a very amusing form of protest.
[–]Horst665 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
That was my idea as well, check out this: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00262006/
there's even fish you can pack on fridays
Source: my 2 y/o has this and the veggie pack as toys, because she loves playing kitchen :)
[–]Mac4491One day 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
The trouble with that though is that some schools might not let the child enjoy the rest of their lunch break to go play with their friends if they don't finish their entire lunch.
That's how I remember it being at my primary school (UK) especially for lunches provided by the school. Once you were finished you could go out and play but they'd often keep you in the cafeteria until you had finished everything.
Not sure if that's still a thing or if it's even a thing in other schools in other countries however.
[–]groundhogcakeday 11 points12 points13 points  (1 child)
I was going to suggest taking a Twinkie and writing "dairy substitute" on the package in sharpie.
[–]cjandstuff 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
In certain parts of the US, that may work. Hell, pizza is a vegetable right? http://www.nbcnews.com/id/45306416/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/pizza-vegetable-congress-says-yes/
[–]Shortymac09 73 points74 points75 points  (0 children)
I would get a lawyer to write up a nice little message about discrimination based on personal beliefs with a doctor's note attesting to her health.
[–]halfofmyheart 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
Meet with the principal in person to discuss. Ask to see the written policy. If he/she, as well as the superintendent, can not move on the topic then it's time to appeal to the school board.
[–]ncasal 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
If a parent can sign a waiver to send their kid to school unvaccinated for cultural reasons, you should certainly be able to get a waiver to this ridiculous policy due to dietary guidelines.
[–]hicadoola 36 points37 points38 points  (0 children)
That is crazy. I think they want the substitutes because that's nice and easy for them to recognize and check off their list but they seriously need to be educated on food if they think protein only comes from meat or meat substitutes and calcium only from cheese and cheese substitutes (do cheese substitutes even contain calcium?)
Maybe it would help if you explained very thoroughly what these substitutes are made of and how your daughters lunch does contain these things but without being overly processed beyond recognition. Because honestly, proteins from beans, that are still shaped like beans, count just as much as protein from beans shaped into bean "beef patties".
[–]miparasito 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
What do you normally pack? I would get some Avery labels and print "DAIRY SUBSTITUTE" with a picture of a cow and "MEAT SUBSTITUTE" with a picture of a chicken. Stick those onto anything you give her.
[–]Kulaid871 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
Suggestion:
Rather then fight the system, put in a korean/asian soy milk drink. They are in small single portion cartons, says Soy Milk on it and would appease them. They last over a year unrefrigerated. Look up Tetra Pak about how it last so long.
Then buy a Vegan Protein single packs. They last for awhile too. Just add it to the lunch bag, and tell you kid not to eat them and just bring it back home. As long as it's 'present' they can't complain.
Good luck!
[–]lyanca 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
I would send something with her lunch along the lines of, she had a vegan meat substitute, it's lentils (or whatever you packed that has some protein) and the vegan dairy substitute is dark leafy greens with coconut oil (calcium and fat) or whatever in her lunch approximates the macros and nutrients that"meat and dairy" contain.
Or a less passive aggressive approach would be to contact her doctor and have him write a note excusing her from the requirements for health reasons (my mother did this with my brother when he was young because he hated milk).
[–]OrganizedSprinkles 38 points39 points40 points  (14 children)
Claim religious reasons and that might help. What are you packing for her?
[–]StrangerSkies 130 points131 points132 points  (12 children)
I'm a Jew and don't mix meat and milk. I'd be furious with these guidelines.
[–]OrganizedSprinkles 42 points43 points44 points  (11 children)
Yes! Totally not kosher.
[–]karma3000Dad - 3.5 y/o girl 17 points18 points19 points  (10 children)
Not Halal either
[–]i_wantthat 13 points14 points15 points  (3 children)
Not FSM, either.
[–]karma3000Dad - 3.5 y/o girl 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
What about Bacon Carbonara?
[–]Lereas 2 points3 points4 points  (5 children)
Wait, really? For some reason I thought that wasn't one of the halal rules.
[–]4me4you 5 points6 points7 points  (4 children)
You can have milk and eat meat at the same time if you are Muslim.
[–]Lereas 3 points4 points5 points  (3 children)
That's what I thought...wondering why /u/karma3000 suggested it wasn't halal.
[–]karma3000Dad - 3.5 y/o girl 9 points10 points11 points  (2 children)
Ok sorry I may have read some alternative facts. Though I’m a bit bummed about it not being FSM as /u/i_wantthat suggests.
[–]Lereas 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
No worries. Real facts were learned, and that's what matters :)
[–]4me4you 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
I've been a practicing Muslim for 8 years and really have learned a great deal about dietary practices within the religion. Cheese and meats combined is something magical.
[–]uni-monkeywho needs sleep? 31 points32 points33 points  (0 children)
Definitely. "It is our sincere religious belief that you should fuck off"
[–]starlord1971 32 points33 points34 points  (24 children)
This is a first for me in all my years, with 4 kids, and all kinds of schooling and eaters.
What would happen if your child had a disability and didn't want to eat those foods at your school? Or like you a vegetarian or vegan?
This is crazy. Did you have to sign a contract? Is it a private school?
You sent in an email and got no where, I guess I would either keep packing the lunches she likes or go in for a meeting to talk about it. What choice to do you have at this point? The school is being a little unreasonable.
Are these state wide guidelines that they follow? Or district ones?
[–]mymomisproblematic[S] 29 points30 points31 points  (23 children)
We do not live in the US but these aren't government implemented rules. Just put in place by the district. Definitely a bizarre situation, what about allergies and such? Or what if a kid just doesn't like a certain thing? There is no nuance involved with these guidelines at all, it's just bizarre to me.
[–]cmcg1227 21 points22 points23 points  (2 children)
I commented separately with my suggestion for a response, but the reason that these nutrient guidelines exist is to help avoid situations where parents are sending kids to school with lunches made up almost entirely of fat and sugary carbs. Unfortunately, as most government entities do, they fucked it up and probably aren't actually doing much good. However, their guidelines do give them the ability to go back to the parents who send a pack of chips, a pack of goldfish, and a granola bar with their children for lunch.
It seems beyond ridiculous that the teacher and principal don't understand that your child is eating healthier than the vast majority of her peers and that your dietary restrictions are causing your daughter to exceed the nutritional requirements, not skirt around them. Unfortunately most people are woefully ignorant of veganism and what that means. You may end up needing to send in a doctor's note requesting that they do not use the "district rules" to evaluate your daughter's lunch
[–]notevenapro 9 points10 points11 points  (14 children)
but these aren't government implemented rules.
Can you tell them to mind their own business and that you child is healthy and fine?
[–]mymomisproblematic[S] 16 points17 points18 points  (13 children)
Oh I trust me I'd like to! All of the correspondence I've gotten says the guidelines are mandatory to follow and if they aren't, disciplinary action will occur.
[–]hellenkellercard 21 points22 points23 points  (0 children)
Forward the principal's email to the superintendent with the following: dear so and so
I recently recieved this communication from principal so and so demanding a change to my daughters healthy diet. Please send me the district policy she is referring to as well as the disciplinary procedure so I may review them. Please also find attached her pediatrician's notes on what constitutes a meat substitute and dairy substitute in a vegan diet. As you can see, My daughter's lunches follow appropriate nutritional guidelines. I would appreciate your involvement in this matter due to the continued hostile communication I am receiving from her school.
[–]jabbsgeuwiabsvfj 31 points32 points33 points  (7 children)
I'm sorry they cannot force this. Many people do not eat certain things because of religion. This can not be enforced.
[–]AstarteHilzarie 28 points29 points30 points  (0 children)
What kind of disciplinary action? That sounds like a vague and hollow threat. I'm sitter the intentions are pure,to make sure kids are given healthy meals, however somewhere along the line someone dropped the ball and didn't teach WHY it was a rule so the staff is just enforcing the rule to really dumb levels. I would contact the district superintendent.
[–]Spidersinmypants 12 points13 points14 points  (1 child)
Tell them they can give you detention if they want.
[–]Thatpurplegirl2 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
This is such bullshit. There's more than one way to eat healthy. And following the food guide/pyramid is a recipe for obesity and diabetes (seriously it's all sugar and grains).
What kind of discipline? I'd be curious because if they are going to send minor dad to detention, I'd love to see them try!
You definitely need to go higher. Go right to the board. Maybe media involvement if you don't get anywhere?
[–]Cdr_Obvious 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
these aren't government implemented rules.
It's a government school, is it not?
If the rules are not required by statute, then take it over the school district's heads.
Local media, elected representation, etc.
[–]starlord1971 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
What do other parents say? Has anyone else had problems with the school or with notes/lunch. I just find intrusive to be honest.
[–]mymomisproblematic[S] 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
I'm not sure, like I said it's a new school so I am not familiar with any other parents.
[–]extracanadian 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
What school district is it?
[–]jennirator 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Go to the school board
[–]paroleviolator 36 points37 points38 points  (5 children)
Can you get a note from your doctor? This is so weird.
[–]mymomisproblematic[S] 22 points23 points24 points  (4 children)
I never thought about going to the doctor, thank you!
[–]UbergoochAndTaint 10 points11 points12 points  (2 children)
If you're PCP has told you she's doing fine then you need to tell these people to fck right off. In the grand scheme of things why do they give two shts?! As if there aren't kids at that school who have legitimate problems that they have to mess with your well nourished child.
[–]StingsLikeBitch 9 points10 points11 points  (1 child)
Ha! Your self censorship made for some nice italics placement. But why censor with a username like UbergoochAndTaint?
[–]UbergoochAndTaint 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Well, some people are sensitive.
[–]paroleviolator 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
No problem! Maybe bring some sample menus of what you pack her. I'd then move to the superintendent and school board if need be.
[–]chefriley76 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
I'm actually a middle school cafeteria manager who deals with the state of nutritional guidelines on a daily basis. I've never heard of anything like this. At most, they can ask you to not send peanut butter (allergy concern) or sugary sodas.
I would ask the principal for a copy of the district guidelines. Then I would keep sending whatever food you want with a note in her lunchbox every day telling them that if they would like to discard her lunch, then it is their responsibility to provide her an equivalent meal that meets her dietary requirements.
[–]lemonbite 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
Go to the school board. If they don't respond well. Take it to the media. That's ridiculous they can't force these things...
[–]blekkjaDad to a 7 yo boy, 2 yo girl with one on the way! 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Easy solution: you are devotees of Krishna. Next time you go pick your daughter up wear your best orange robe and take a few copies of the Bhagavad Gita to hand out (making sure you pressure for "donations" for printing costs of course - gotta make it authentic). You could teach her the chant to do when teachers are around maybe? Bang: problem over. School has a potential religious discrimination case on their hands.
(This is going to be my strategy if I ever get sent to Prison. Otherwise I'm sure it would all be marmite and lettuce sandwiches on white bread)
[–]dapolkadots 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Why is it that no one seems to at an eye at kids who eat nothing but Happy Meal chicken nuggets and pop tarts, but OHHHH HEAVENS SOMEONE CALL CPS THIS WOMAN DOESN'T FEEDS HER CHILD MEAT!
Take my cousin for example: her son eats wheels and cheese (it's a TV dinner mac and cheese) with hot dog for two meals a day. His favorite go-to breakfast is either pop tarts or cereal. When my grandma got prescribed a vegan diet for her heart disease, my cousin's first remark was "HOW ARE YOU GONNA GET PROTEIN? That's not healthy!" As if her son's daily diet was superior to it.
I enjoyed following the vegan diet with my grandma. I found some great recipes that I still use to this day, even though I eat meat again now that I don't live with her anymore.
Here is a sample meal plan for my day: breakfast of oatmeal or peanut butter toast with banana or apple. Sometimes I ate vegan sausage patties, which tasted surprisingly awesome. Lunch could be a sandwich (any combo of veggies, hummus and avocado are super great and full of fats) and soup, or lentil salad. I got pretty addicted to cold lentil salad with carrots and Italian dressing. Dinner was my favorite, especially vegan chili. You can roast veggies, bake potatoes, fry okra, make spaghetti, etc... tons of options.
Give this mom a chance. You guys posting things about vegan kids dying of malnutrition or starvation need to actually read the articles. Those are the babies fed only things like almond milk and celery sticks. From what I've read, OP sounds like she is very knowledgeable about how to provide the correct nutrients for LO.
[–]queenoreo 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
I would take the time to write out what is in my child's lunch and it's nutritional equivalent to the required meat and dairy. Then if I still needed to make a fuss I would take it all the way to the school board.
Some kid is eating bologna and cheese on white bread and the vegan kid is getting crap because technically it doesn't look like meat and cheese. Rolling my eyes.
[–]orkneydays 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
That is really absurd situation. Do they make the children eat everything in their lunch? If not, then tape the same packet of milk powder and packaged jerky to the inside of her lunch box every day. She will never have to touch it, and you fulfill those ridiculous district requirements.
[–]winter_puppy 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
The fact that all communication emphasizes the district policy aspect is very telling. As a teacher in a fairly large district myself, I am required to enforce many decisions made in an office building miles away from my school. Your best option is to contact the nutrition department (or whoever made that decision) at the district level to get this cleared up. Contacting them with a doctor's/nutritionist's note in hand would be best case.
[–]saladninja 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
Just semantics, but how can guidelines be considered mandatory? Shouldn't they be calling it nutritional rules, instead?
[–]TheBananaKing 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
The school is in a situation where they have responsibility but no control.
They doubtless get kids who get nothing but a candy bar or chips or whatever, and they're compelled to either let it happen or do something about it - and when they do, I don't doubt that the parents in question are just as aggrieved.
On top of that, they must also have to deal with all kinds of weird fad diets and restrictions (including veggies and vegans) that make no effort to cover the nutritional bases. I have no doubt whatsoever there are parents who go all raw-veggies on their kids, with not the slightest consideration of their calcium, iron, protein and B12 intake. Just think of some of the parents you know, seriously.
The school can't in all conscience just let it slide, but they also don't have the ability to go in-depth with every kid's total diet.
What they can manage is to have a quick checklist which sets out some sane bare minimums. Some fibre, some vitamins, some protein, some calcium. Fruit, vegetables, meat, dairy.
If people do hit that target, well, their kid likely isn't going to be too malnourished whatever else happens - and it's a damn simple thing to check for.
Imagine there were lazy, incompetent vegan parents at your kid's school - I'm sure you wouldn't want the school to ignore their welfare. Short of hiring a nutritionist and interviewing the parents in-depth, how should the school perform due diligence in that regard?
I don't think that they're been too unreasonable, honestly. What would you do in their shoes, with their resources, workload and responsibilities?
[–]ashburnmom 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
First of all, all parents should have the appropriate notification and documentation of any such policies along with sources for the science behind it. Secondly, courteous communication rather than snarky notes and hostile threats. Thirdly, educators should be aware of different lifestyle choices and account for them in any policies. Forth, "zero tolerance" polices never end well.
[–]websterella 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Get a copy of the policy. Talk to a registered dietician with a copy of the policy. Respond with something that speaks to the specific nutritional break down of 'nutritional needs.' Lunch isn't just meat, dairy and grains....it's carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, fats, protein. Try and break it down like that.
[–]Eclectophile 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
Put a Slim Jim and a shrink wrapped piece of Velveeta in her lunch and tell her to show it to any nosy grownups that feel like they have to be the food police. Technically, you are then compliant. She doesn't need to change her diet at all.
I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, but I recognize the validity of the life choice.
[–]CodyRCantrell 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Just try to contact the district head and if that doesn't work ignore it.
They mentioned "disciplinary action" but they can't legally discipline your daughter because you didn't put meat and milk in her lunch bag.
Or, just send in a bunch of raw meat and a gallon of milk with her to make a point.
[–]remotefixonline 185 points186 points187 points  (90 children)
Vegan since birth... omg.
[–]squirrelmasterzero 11 points12 points13 points  (0 children)
People make much dumber decisions about how to raise their kids. Not personally a decision I'd make, but gotta keep it in perspective.
As long as her daughter is getting the nutrients she needs to grow properly (read : proper vitamins and protein content for development), she's fine. Sounds like OP is very in tune with these requirements for her daughter.
[–]waterbuffalo750 55 points56 points57 points  (0 children)
Yeah, that was my thought, too
[–]ThePandaChoke 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I thought the same thing..... I guess i feel like a diet that i such radical departure from the 'norm' should be more of an individual choice. BUt i guess if it aint hurting anybody, then no biggie. I just picture rebellious little Vegan Johnny mawwing down burgers to spite crunchy ol' mom and pop.
[–]mymomisproblematic[S] -14 points-13 points-12 points  (70 children)
What??
[–]witnge 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
You do realise that any diet could be harmful to children if they don't get the required nutrients. I'm not vegan but you can't just say vegan bad meat good. Some people feed their kids nothing but processed crap which is far more dangerous.
3 of those linked articles are about infants who were not fed breastmilk or formula (which should be the main source of nutrition at that age no matter what diet they are eating) so veganism wasn't the problem.
[–]mymomisproblematic[S] 76 points77 points78 points  (60 children)
Yes many people do not how to make sure they are still getting the proper nutrients while eating vegan. It is very sad and wrong. My daughter is five and at all of her regular doctor checkups I have been told she is very healthy. Thank you for your concern but this is irrelevant to the original post. I'm not here to argue about veganism.
[–]waterbuffalo750 67 points68 points69 points  (13 children)
To be fair, it is relevant. All the comments have just taken you at your word that the lunches contain everything your child would get from meat and dairy. If she isn't, then the school is right to be concerned. You may still be in the right, but it's absolutely relevant to question it
[–]mymomisproblematic[S] 77 points78 points79 points  (12 children)
Yes you're right. I guess it is fair to question wether or not the lunches are indeed healthy. It's very easy to be vegan without actually getting proper nutrition. However I make sure that I and my child do.
[–]GeniusIamnot 23 points24 points25 points  (1 child)
Props to you for admitting this.
[–]TheNoteTaker 39 points40 points41 points  (0 children)
It's also ridiculously easy to eat meat and dairy and not recieve proper nutrition.
[–]beckolyn 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
So can you give an example of what you send each day?
[–]ashburnmom 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
Are you asking her to justify what she feeds her child?
[–]beckolyn 20 points21 points22 points  (0 children)
Her post is literally that the school says she isn't sending her child with adequate nutrition, but she only states that she sends enough versus giving a sample of what she would send. I have a hard time supporting someone in their feeling of injustice without more information. That's all. I think it is reasonable to ask that within the context of her complaint.
[–]Insaniaksin 0 points1 point2 points  (6 children)
But why do you make this decision for your daughter at birth?
[–]incongruity 33 points34 points35 points  (0 children)
Putting my cards on the table - I like meat and dairy and don't get vegans - but, assuming proper nutrition is achieved, how is this much different than any of a number of decisions we all make as parents for our kids?
That's our job as parents - we make decisions for our kids based on our values until such time as they can make those choices themselves, based on their values.
[–]beka13 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
People make all sorts of decisions for their children. The tricky part comes in when the children start making their own decisions. :)
[–]AgingLolita 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
Parents make all the decisions for their children at birth, what did you expect her to do? Put a sausage in the kid's mouth and see if she spits it out?
[–]sudden_potato 10 points11 points12 points  (1 child)
why do all parents make the decision to not let their kids gorge on candy?
[–]Explodicle 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Found the kid
[–]AlcarinRucin comment score below threshold-25 points-24 points-23 points  (0 children)
Its a political statement. Which is why the school is absolutely correct to question whether the kid is being fed a healthy diet.
[–]jet_heller 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
In addition to the other reasons this is not only relevant, but the actual point of the post, there's the idea that if you're a vegan AND getting all the proper nutrition that you and your kid need, then you would already have all the relevant resources available to you that indicate why the nutrition choices you make ARE adequate. If you don't have those resources available and are here asking for them, then it's quite reasonable to very seriously question whether or not all the nutrition is adequate.
[–]Gigantkranion 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
It is relevant because it is like you just said,
Yes many people do not how to make sure they are still getting the proper nutrients while eating vegan. It is very sad and wrong.
So, your school's concern is merited. They don't know you. They know that there are many people out there messing up their kids with their dumb diets. Some know what they are spoof but to be honest, most non vegans here too probably eat like garbage.
The concern is legit. I'd rather have my school question me than see the possibility (however remote) of negligence/abuse than the other way around.
[–][deleted]  (35 children)
[removed]
    [–]GeniusIamnot comment score below threshold-47 points-46 points-45 points  (7 children)
    Well you asked about ways to meat the nutritional guidelines. So here is my tip : give your child proper meals with meat and dairy so she wont suffer anemia, and that will meet the nutritional guidelines.
    [–]mymomisproblematic[S] 57 points58 points59 points  (5 children)
    Thank you for your concern but my child is very healthy! There are ways to get appropriate amounts of iron without eating meat.
    [–]Buttah 26 points27 points28 points  (4 children)
    Fun fact, you can get 20% of your daily recommended iron by eating a tbsp. of blackstrap molasses. I'm anemic, I just learned this and use it to boost my iron intake when I'm not taking iron pills.
    [–]SuccessIsDelicious 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
    I do this as well! Iron pills are too hard on my stomach.
    [–]StingsLikeBitch 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
    Ha! Iron...hard on the stomach ...come on guys that is funny.
    [–]Voltrondemort 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
    Do you take it straight or in something?
    [–]SuccessIsDelicious 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
    I mix it with about 5 oz of warm water.
    [–]autmned 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
    Most major dietetic orgs state that a vegan diet is safe and healthy for humans of all stages of life.
    [–]autmned 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
    Most major dietetic orgs state that a vegan diet can be safe and healthy for people of all stages of life including babies and athletes.
    [–]rbnthrowaway13 comment score below threshold-37 points-36 points-35 points  (5 children)
    Baby was fed breast milk, right? Ingesting from an animal isn't a vegan diet. It's a lactovegetarian diet. Maybe that's what they meant?
    Either way, humans are filthy animals! I just wiped snot off of my boobs. Baby has a cold.
    [–]GrrrArrgh 60 points61 points62 points  (4 children)
    Breastfeeding is vegan. The mom consents to the use of her milk, which other animals are unable to do.
    [–]rbnthrowaway13 16 points17 points18 points  (3 children)
    Ah! Didn't know that was a thing. Thanks ;)
    [–]Acoolgrandma comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points  (2 children)
    I knew a guy once that tried to take it to the next level and personified plants too. Dude died waiting for an avocado's permisson.
    [–]DiscordianStooge 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
    Well, he died according to his own beliefs, I guess.
    [–]Explodicle 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    One could argue that fruit is implied consent and is thus morally preferable.
    [–]pamplemousse2 -6 points-5 points-4 points  (15 children)
    Well, my child has been vegan since birth and it's perfectly healthy for her (6mo breastfed and has only had fruits and veggies for solids.)
    Your comment wasn't very nice, or helpful.
    [–]mmcelhinney 11 points12 points13 points  (9 children)
    Is it vegan to drink breastmilk? It's a legitimate question, not being a smartass.
    [–]thewholebagel 26 points27 points28 points  (5 children)
    Yes, it definitely is vegan as it involves no exploitation or harm to animals.
    [–]AzureMagelet 19 points20 points21 points  (3 children)
    So if a cow died of old age could a vegan eat it?
    [–]lnfinity 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
    Potentially there are no ethical issues involved (although if this was put into practice in real life that may not necessarily be the case); however, there are food safety and taste reasons why we generally do not consume flesh from animals that have died of natural causes.
    [–]morbidhyena 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
    We wouldn't, for the same reason a meat eater wouldn't eat their pet dog after it died of old age.
    [–]Gigantkranion -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
    I wouldn't eat my pet dog if it died... Cause that's weird.
    I would eat someone else's dog if I had no risk of punishment from the selling of dog meat. Don't care it ain't close to me.
    [–]pamplemousse2 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
    Yeah! I learned this from a vegan friend - at the core is the issue of consent. Animals can't consent to being eaten, and therefore vegans aren't ok with animal products/exploiting animals (as others have pointed out.) Because I consent to breastfeeding my kiddo, it's vegan.
    I think that's really neat, and I like sharing that piece of knowledge. Thanks for asking!
    [–]mmcelhinney 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
    Consent makes sense. Is there "human use" that an animal can consent to? In the agriculture setting, can an animal consent to being put to use for transport, driving a plow, etc? I know that we typically use tractors now for agriculture, but surely animals are used in farming situations to grow crops etc. Is that a "sourcing" issue actually looked into by someone that is vegan?
    [–]pamplemousse2 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Those are excellent questions, and I don't know the answers (I'm not vegan.) I'm going to ask her next time I see her!
    [–]remotefixonline 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
    Forcing your beliefs on a child isn't nice or helpful and in some cases it's deadly.
    [–][deleted]  (1 child)
    [deleted]
      [–]mblueskies 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
      They are ridiculous, so maybe you can be ridiculous back. Can you get your doctor to sign a letter certifying that beans are "vegan meat substitute"? And that nuts are "vegan dairy substitute"? Then they can claim to be in compliance with their district guidelines.
      [–]chamomilesmile 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      What exactly is the consequence for this beyond annoying notes? If nothing else can happen I'd maybe just keep throwing them out daily.
      [–]DieSchadenfreude 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      I would see a nutritionist and have them put the official word on what sorts of things can be substituted for these "missing groups". Have them provide a basic list and some contact info for the school authorities. Things like quinoa contain some key protein usually found in meat. I'm sure a nutritionist can put together a good list of options and combos that would provide the same nutrients.
      [–]TripleEEE1682 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      The nutritional guidelines for school lunches are set in place by the district and must be followed. What you feed your student at home is your business. However, when at school certain nutritional needs must be met. We understand certain students may have very specific dietary needs that make this difficult. In your case we ask that you please send your child with a vegan dairy substitute as well a vegan meat substitute each day. It is important that students eat a healthy balanced lunch each day to help them focus and learn. If these rules are not followed it may result in disciplinary action.
      I'm an educator, and this type of crap is the reason people are so into charters and choice. This is bullshit.
      The USDA establishes diatary guidelines. Here they are: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/
      You will see that they offer options like soy milk for the dairy component and for the protein group there are choices like :¼ cup cooked beans, 1 egg, 1 tablespoon of peanut butter, or ½ ounce of nuts or seeds can be considered as 1 ounce-equivalent from the Protein Foods Group.
      So a vegan can abide by the USDA nutritional requirements. If I were you, I'd sit down with them and ask to see their guidelines and then arrange a plan.
      The thing that pisses me off is that threat of "disciplinary action" Are they going to punish your child because you aren't behaving?
      Ugh. Talk about alienating parents. It drives me nuts.
      [–]Horatia_Hornswaggle 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
      This is crazy, lots of schools where I live have lunch box requirements but not to the level that you must supply meat/dairy specifically. Just a limited amount (or none at all) of 'junk' food, plenty of fruit and veg etc. What would they do with a child whose culture/religion requires them to be vegetarian?
      [–]DirewolfKhaleesi 22 points23 points24 points  (1 child)
      My sister and both my nieces (3 and 1) are vegetarian. Honestly, if they were in this situation, this would be the advice I give:
      Go over the principal's head on this one. Contact the district. Harass them for as long as the principal is harassing you. Put together a "case file" that includes a list of all the foods you pack for lunches and have a dietitian sign off on the nutritional facts of these foods. Also include the food you said were unhealthy for vegans to consume daily and have those checked off by a dietitian as unhealthy. Educate, educate, educate. Educators are very knowledgeable, however they don't know everything. If the principal isn't a vegan, she doesn't know the appropriate diet needed for a vegan. Point that out to her. Underline it. Put in bold. Highlight it, too. Don't be afraid to call her out on her lack of an M.D. Be polite, but forceful. I would probably print out the nutritional facts of each item in her lunch box that day and highlight the things that are found in meat and dairy products and pack them with her meal. Honestly, make it perfectly clear to the school that by forcing your daughter to have any drastic changes in her diet could make her seriously ill. If they continue to force their will upon her, remind them that if she becomes ill from consuming any foods that contain dairy or meat, you will be contacting your lawyer for a lawsuit for purposeful harm to your child. Save your emails, save the notes to/from the school. Make copies of everything. Until the school is going to respect your lifestyle, shove it down their throats like an obnoxious BuzzFeed video.
      I'm not a vegan or a vegetarian, but the school's attitude and unwillingness to listen is absurd. It's like giving peanut butter to a child who is allergic to peanuts, IMO.
      [–]owlpee 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      I say fuck it and pack all the ho-ho's.
      [–]wowitskelly 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
      I'm vegan as well. My kids are homeschooled, but if I were you I'd probably be a petulant little tart and put 1 slice of Tofurky meat slices in there and the tiniest Tupperware I could find with any non dairy yogurt in it, and the her real lunch too. I'm sorry this is happening to you guys. I don't see how they could enforce this if they are not offering vegan meats and dairy substitutes in their own cafeteria.
      [–]Jason4596 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      You could tell her not to eat them and just keep them in the box long term. They can force you to pack the food but they can't forced her to eat it. As it is vegan probably won't go bad for a month or so before you need to swap.
      [–]Lereas 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Note from your doctor, and a visit to the superintendent's office.
      [–]seobrien 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Where do you live?? They can require what they provide, and they can, as administrators of the school, prevent your child from bringing something disruptive (such as cupcakes every day or having pizza delivered) but I can't believe they can require what you prepare for your child.
      "Guidelines" are guidelines. Tell them thank for the concern and they are welcome to discipline you. They can't discipline your child for what you prepare them as their parent. When they take it further, call the press.
      [–]DIY_Jules_Can 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      This blind, and from I can see, unfriendly adherence to some PC policy is ridiculous. I would go to the local news station or newspaper and get them to speak out on your behalf. That might wake up the school.
      [–]ilovebelle 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      I work at a school and part of my day is in the cafeteria. I wish I had that much time to worry about what each kid had in their lunch.
      [–]kevinpalmer 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Can I ask a question? What is going to happen if you keep sending her with her lunch as is?
      [–]sthorpe128 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Make black bean sweet potato "meat patties" and label it "meat sub". You could alternate with lentil patties?
      Almond milk labeled "dairy sub"?
      Also... a doctors note excepting her for her special diet?
      Or perhaps exempt for religious reasons? I know this is a stretch... but honestly if your religion says to care for your body and this is the best way you can do it then you're within the legalities.
      Good luck!
      [–]CDMacZane 13 points14 points15 points  (1 child)
      My kid isn't school age yet but we're vegan. Seriously? What the heck? I say take this higher up to whoever is creating these mandates. Why wouldn't hummus, seeds etc. be sufficient? Also, those meat and cheese substitutes are crazy expensive!
      [–]insertblankhere -6 points-5 points-4 points  (0 children)
      Oh yea why aren't chickpeas and bird food good enough substitutes for the nutrition found in free roaming meats? It's exactly the same! /s Jesus the people on this thread are ridiculous.
      [–]jwjody 6 points7 points8 points  (3 children)
      Is your daughter in public school? Can they really dictate nutritional guidelines for food from home?
      [–]AstarteHilzarie 17 points18 points19 points  (2 children)
      I'm guessing it's probably intended to help confront the parents who send a pop tart, a juice box, and a bag of chips as lunch every day. Whoever implemented it clearly didn't think about "exceptions to the rule" and the policy was poorly carried out. The "disciplinary actions" are likely a bullshit scare tactic.
      [–]Shortymac09 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
      Tell you the truth, these policies are so tone-deaf that each would be labeled "grains", "fruit", and "veggie".
      This is a make work project to look like they are "combating childhood nutrition".
      [–]AstarteHilzarie 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Much like how ketchup counted (counts?) as a serving of fruit when I was in school. I get where you're coming from. Shame that it's backfiring on OP so hard.
      [–]drink30beers 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
      Vegan since birth eh
      [–]BrittBrat893sanctimommies everywhere here 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Can you get a note from your doctor or other health/nutrition person who can confirm that her meals are perfectly fine as is and that adding anything else will do more harm then good?
      [–]KT_ATX 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      Get a note from your doctor advising that your daughter follows a vegan diet in which her nutritional needs are met through a carefully balanced diet that often will not immediately resemble an omnivores diet. Doctor approves your daughters diet, AS IS and advises that changes could actually cause health issues for daughter. All of this should be true.
      If these guidelines are set by the district, the school is required to enforce them. They probably even have some funding that depends on it. While what they're doing isnt right, it may be a "This is above my paygrade" situation as far as they are concerned and they just dont want to deal with it and would rather push to see if they can bend you, which is the easiest option for them.
      My immediate question to the principal would be, "What would you consider to be a meat and dairy substitute?" You may want to respond with some examples of valid vegan meat/dairy substitues with a note explaining that you felt it was necessary to explain since, from the notes coming home, its clear the staff isnt readily able to identify the nutritional components of a vegan diet, possibly because they are so visiually different from a meat based diet. You may also offer an explanation that while mock meat and faux dairy are popular options, they are the equivalent of vegan junkfood are are often not as nutritional as the other substitutes you listed. Sending them every day would be like sending your child each day with a jelly sandwich. Offer to answer any questions or to provide further clarification if they need it. It would probably best to have this whole consersation with them in person.
      If talking to the school doesnt resolve the issue and/or you feel very strongly about it, address your concerns with the school board and district. If the teachers are filling out a form/checklist for each students lunch, then it may be time to update that checklist to include healthy meat alternatives.
      [–]Ajs1004 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      Get a doctors note. I am curious what their policy is for people who are allergic to dairy. Not that having a different diet and an allergy aren't the same thing.
      [–]Guy_Fieris_Hair 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
      I just don't get it. Go ahead and call me the ignorant one, which Reddit will do... But humans have have been eating meat naturally for fucking ever. It is how we have evolved. I understand eating free range animals or making an effort to make sure the animals are treated right. But there is a food chain in nature and we are at the top of it.
      It's dangerous especially if they have been a vegan since birth. And, It's going to raise concerns when people see how her parents make her eat. The schools program should also make sure kids aren't eating balogna everyday. I'm sure it started as an attempt to keep kids that pack their own lunch from packing themselves just brownies everyday and a teacher saw hers and just doesn't understand that she is still getting complete proteins, iron, calcium, vitamin D etc.
      To expand on what others have recommended, I am sure you have a pretty close tab on exactly what nutrients are in your daughters food. I mean, you have to when your raising a kid vegan. Maybe put her food separated, in a Tupperware with a note describing the exact nutrients in each one for a week, just to prove a point. And maybe you will enlighten someone along the way.
      Now excuse me while I take my cholesterol medicine.
      [–]autmned 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Not sure if the first part was serious or not after the cholesterol joke, but if you are interested in learning more, check out the sidebar on /r/vegan, they have a lot of great information. :)
      [–]extracanadian 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
      Can we get some lunch examples that you are sending please?
      [–]ashburnmom -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
      Why do you ask?
      [–]AboutPediatrics 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Do you have a link to the guidelines or can you post them? Either they are misreading them or they were poorly crafted, as they shouldn't care so much what the sources of protein, calcium, and vitamin D are, etc, as long as the child is getting them. There may be a "meat group," for example that includes non-meat items with similar nutrients.
      And these types of guidelines are typically designed for kids who end up at school with chips and soda everyday...
      [–]gamerladyM 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      This seems like they are putting you in a very uncomfortable position. Maybe you could make your own black bean burgers, falafels, or something similar. That way it's not loaded with soy or overly processed. I don't understand why they can't make an exception as long as the meat alternative is protein based like nuts and beans. :/ Good luck.
      [–]bookchaser 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Chain of Command:
      1. Meet with the principal.
      2. If it's not resolved, meet with the superintendant.
      3. If it's not resolved, speak to the school board.
      If you skip straight to the school board, the trustees will do what they always do when an irate parent speaks at one of their meetings... they will turn to their superintendant, whom they trust for all things, and ask him or her for the context and a recommendation. A school board that gets along with its super usually goes with the super's recommendation, so talk to the super first.
      As some have said, if you can get a doctor's note then you are in an excellent position to get your way.
      This may simply be an issue of educating the superintendent. Fully research the meals you've been providing and go into the meeting prepared with evidence. For example, don't say it's unhealthy to eat vegan meat every day. Explain why it's unhealthy, and have sources for the claim.
      [–]ultrasupergenius 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      It sounds like it is a box ticking excercise for them. Help them tick the boxes. Send the exact same foods you are now, but put labels on the different foods she is eating. "Dairy substitute", "protein substitute", "grain serving". Etc.
      [–]genevaduke 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Beans don't qualify as a protein? What about sending something made with cocoanut milk or almond milk?
      But I would also see if there is a higher level to appeal to for an accommodation. I would think your peditrician could provide a note if necessary indiciating the child is receiving well balanced meals.
      [–]Kakita987 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      The best I can suggest is asking for a meeting with the principal. Try and make it right before lunch. Bring in a couple of printed lists of "options". Feel free to pack a lunch of the "recommended" substitutes. And ask the principal to eat the lunch. If she won't eat the lunch, for whatever reason, why should she expect your daughter to?
      [–]katfan97 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Why not label any kind of vegan protein in the lunch "vegan meat" and "vegan dairy"? Boom done.
      [–]almostwispy 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Please show up at your next school board meeting. Contact some of the members ahead of time with a detailed explanation of the situation, as well
      [–]zubat11 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      I came on here expecting everyone to be hating on you for raising your children vegan... have a look at my post history.
      [–]OnTheBuddySystem 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      When I was in school we literally had the option of buying a king-size Little Debbie cake as our lunch. I always did it because it was the cheapest thing, and I couldn't afford the whole tray lunch. I wish I had parents packing me vegan lunches. Crazy how times have changed since the 90s!
      [–]0verstim 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      buy one meat-substitute item and one dairy substitute item. Something sealed and shelf stable. Leave them in your child's bag, and just have them bring it back and forth to school each day. no one is saying she has to eat them, right?
      [–]insertblankhere 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      You're imposing a diet on your child that is very restrictive. This kind of diet is a lifestyle choice one makes on their own. She is too young to make that choice for herself. You are not thinking of her. You are a selfish person
      [–]iareagenius 11 points12 points13 points  (3 children)
      Humans evolved for tens of thousands of years being omnivores. It's not fair to force vegan on her. Vegan should be a choice an adult makes.
      [–]firenzest 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
      We didn't evolve to eat processed sugar. Or flour. Do you criticize parents for "forcing" those on them?
      [–]BadTownBrigade 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
      yes.
      [–]firenzest 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      As in, all consumption of refined sugar or flour?
      [–]Ol_Dirt 12 points13 points14 points  (14 children)
      Sorry, but I am siding with the school on this one. No child that young should be forced to be vegan.
      You claim to be very careful about her nutrition and make sure she gets all the proper nutrients, but a child that young cannot get everything they need from a strict vegan diet unless you are extremely detail oriented in calculating nutritional intake from vegan diets.
      All nutrients and their sources are not equal. If your child needs nutrient x from a meat source, replacing the meat with a vegan option that also has an x nutrient in it is not good enough. Meat and dairy sources of nutrients are ALWAYS superior to vegan choices because we have evolved over millions of years to get those nutrients from that source.
      Different sources have different quantity, quality, and bio-availability of nutrients. If you feed your child a piece of meat with 2 grams of protein and then feed your child a vegan option with 2 grams of protein they are not going to get 4 grams of protein. These two sources will have different bio-availability and quality of nutrients. You can't simply substitute and think everything is fine. In order to make them equal your child would need to eat more quantity of food and even then the quality of said nutrients may not be the same. Young children are not known for eating the types of quantity needed to make them equal, and because you aren't there watching her you cannot guarantee she is eating the larger quantity of food she will require.
      Additionally, her requirements do not stay as consistent as they do in an adult. Her requirements for nutrients are going to shift frequently, often differing from day to day or week to week based on her activities and type/quantity of growth in any given time period. You simply cannot monitor a child's nutrient requirements at a detailed enough level to guarantee she is getting the nutrients in sufficient quality and quantity on a day to day basis from a vegan diet, it just isn't possible.
      You claim that your pediatrician says your kid is healthy and I believe you. From my experience with my own kids checkup they are looking at factors like height, weight, developmental milestones and then saying "yep, everything is within norm". That does not mean your child is doing fine on their vegan diet however. I strongly doubt your pedi is doing a full blood workup at every visit to check for levels of necessary nutrients. Your kid is growing and forming their brain in ways that will effect them for the rest of their lives. Just because your child seems healthy by the obvious measurements does not mean they are getting everything they need to meet the full potential of their genetics.
      It seems everybody in this thread wants to argue that we shouldn't impose our choices on others and parents should be allowed to make these choices for their kids. In most matters this is absolutely correct, but there are areas where we do impose requirements on parents. We don't let parents hit their kids and we don't let parents give their children inadequate diets* (*I am not saying these are equal in severity, just pointing out in some areas we do impose requirements)
      The thing is this isn't a just a cultural choice. We have evolved for millions of years to eat a certain diet. Being vegan is outside the norm of what a human has evolved to eat. I believe as an adult everybody should be able to make any choice they want when it comes to their diet and if they want to be vegan I have zero problem with it. It is much easier to be an adult and get everything you need in a vegan diet because your nutrient requirements are much lower, less complex, and much more static relatively than a growing child. As an adult you can also eat much larger quantities of food to balance out the low bio-availability and poorer quality of nutrients in a vegan diet.
      As a rule I try to stay far away from imposing my beliefs on other parents. By and large, parents should be able to make whatever choices they feel are appropriate for their children. If your child wants to be vegan after they become an adult more power to them, but young children should not be vegan. Anybody with some time and google can easily see that it carries big risks and should not be encouraged.
      Bring on the downvotes.
      [–]GrammaMo 16 points17 points18 points  (5 children)
      The Canadian and American professional bodies of registered dieticians say that a vegan diet is appropriate for all stages of life, including childhood. This is their stance, based on facts, research and education, not a bit of googling.
      [–]Ol_Dirt 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
      Yes and this doesn't change anything I said. As long as they are getting the recommended nutrients then, as you say, it is appropriate for all stages of life. I am merely pointing out that there is a lot more that goes into making sure they are getting adequate nutrients than "my daughter needs 5 grams of protein from meat therefore I can substitute this vegan dish that also has 5 grams of protein".
      I am asking her (in this comment and others) if she is truly taking into account ALL the variables for each required nutrient. She has yet to answer while continuing to claim she is providing adequate nutrients.
      As others have pointed out, I have no right to this information. If she doesn't want to engage with me that is fine nobody is forcing her to, however, she has been engaging with me without actually answering any of my questions.
      Edit: It is also worth pointing out that dieticians are not medical doctors. This article does an incredible job of breaking down what both the dieticians and pediatricians have to say on the matter with well documented links. The end conclusion of pediatricians are that it is possible but very difficult and should be avoided in general.
      [–]firenzest 8 points9 points10 points  (3 children)
      You didn't ask her at all. You assumed that she was wrong about her child getting the right nutrients, and that you knew better than her and her pediatrician.
      [–]Ol_Dirt -1 points0 points1 point  (2 children)
      Correct, I got my comments confused. I didn't ask her in this specific comment (just laying out the facts) but in my other replies in the thread I did specifically ask her if she was taking all of these things in to account. She refused to answer.
      [–]firenzest 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
      You mean laying out the assumptions?
      [–]Ol_Dirt 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Some facts about nutrition in a vegan diet and some assumptions about her situation. If she wants to refute any of the assumptions she can. She hasn't.
      [–]thedugong 9 points10 points11 points  (2 children)
      Bring on the downvotes.
      I'm not going to because I do think you have some valid points even though I think you are wrong.
      I doubt the school is going to get excitable about someone sending their kids in with a white bread cheese and ham sandwich, which is probably a lot less healthy and nutritious than what a cautious/responsible/nutritionally aware vegan would provide a child.
      I also strongly doubt that many meat eaters give two hoots about the grams of protein they or their children eat. The evidence would appear they do not. To whit, I doubt the school district lunch regulations came about because of vegan parents forcing their kids not to eat meat.
      [–]insertblankhere 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      You think they are wrong based on what? Your extensive nutritional knowledge?
      [–]Ol_Dirt 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      These are all perfectly valid points. However, she is not one of these other parents who feeds their kid a shitty non-vegan diet or a meat eating parent who doesn't care whether they are getting adequate protein etc.
      She claims she cares strongly that her daughter receives adequate nutrition in her vegan diet and I am claiming that she can't possibly know that she is due to all the additional variables like bio-availability I strongly doubt she is taking into account for each and every nutrient.
      Nutritional guidelines are based on a child eating the required nutrients from common sources. It isn't a one to one substitute if she wants to use vegan sources. She can very easily ensure her child gets the proper nutrition if she is getting the recommended amount of nutrients from normal sources. To do the same from vegan sources requires much more calculation then I believe she is doing.
      [–]autmned 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
      Most major dietetic organizations state that a vegan diet can be safe and healthy for people from all stages of life. I believe it would be very dangerous and unlikely of them to make these claims if trying it might cause health problems for children. A well informed vegan parent would find it fairly easy to ensure their child is getting adequate nutrition.
      [–]insertblankhere -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
      Nutrition science is very hard to do because we still don't even know what all the phytonutrients in food are let alone how they break down in our body. Completely excluding whole types of food for a growing brain is dangerous. She is risking her daughters health for her own lifestyle choices. I didn't say she was causing damage but she is RISKING it. It's a big gamble on her own child.
      [–]autmned 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      I don't think it's much more of a risk than an average non vegan diet. Babies and children don't need dairy anyway, they're not baby cows. Large vegetarian populations in places like India provide evidence to suggest that vegetarian diets allow for full and healthy lives without much risk.
      Being an omnivore means you can thrive on plants, animals or both. But it doesn't necessitate eating both.
      [–]blekkjaDad to a 7 yo boy, 2 yo girl with one on the way! -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
      Bring on the downvotes.
      Done.
      I'd argue in many cases veg(etari)an kids are going to be healthier than omni kids. Why? Because their parents understand nutrition better than the other parents. A slice of processed ham and processed cheese on white bread with a packet of cheap biscuits, a chocolate muesli bar, and an apple (which comes home uneaten) is not a healthy lunch. But it would likely pass the OP's school guidelines.
      [–]Ol_Dirt -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
      I would agree with you. Plenty of parents feed their kids shit diets that would probably still meet the district requirements. Vegan or vegetarian kids whose parents understand nutrition better are going to be healthier than a kid whose parents feed them processed crap. However, she isn't one of those parents because she does care that her kid gets adequate nutrition. She claims she is providing that and I am saying she most likely isn't because I strongly doubt she is actually factoring in all the variables like bio-availability from different sources for each and every nutrient.
      [–]EliteOneOne 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
      Meat substitute: 1 mushroom. Dairy substitute: little bit of coconut milk or similar.
      How freaking ridiculous.
      [–]thbt101 -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
      Ok, but just to be clear, a mushrooms and coconut milk don't provide the same vitamins and protein that humans usually get from animal products. But it is possible for people to live on a vegan diet with other protein sources with added artificial supplements.
      [–]EliteOneOne 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Of course they can. I speak from personal experience. But my point was that the educators have no idea what actually constitutes a proper substitute. Vegan cheese ain't the same as dairy cheese. Pretty unhealthy actually. Edit. Actually it's possible to get everything you need without artificial supplements.
      [–]LillyMerr 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      None of my kids are in school yet. But is this normal? It seems weird that they enforce specific foods for a lunch! I'm not a vegan and I'm sure there are some days my daughter will be going to school without meat, or dairy. It doesn't mean she didn't have any for breakfast or won't have any with dinner. This seems insane that they are so specific!!!!
      [–]Realloveintexas 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      That's easily the dumbest thing ever. Take your child out of that school.
      [–]swilliams691 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
      Your 5 year old daughter chose to become vegan? Wow, she is very advanced for her age.
      [–]insertblankhere -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
      Yea vegan since birth (so no breastmilk I assume?) Looks like she put a lot of thought into her diet. /s
      This is a parent enforcing her own ideals on her child. Sad really. I view it as child abuse. I was vegan and vegetarian for many years (no not the processed faux meat kind) and growing brains need saturated fat to develop properly. This is child abuse straight up.
      [–]Anivair 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
      My family eats paleo. Basically every place I've sent my kids off said, "I decide what my kid eats and if that's a problem, then you'll be minus my money". Honestly, I've never had an issue. Sounds like someone there is eager to make trouble. I'd go above their head, but that's me and I'm confrontational.
      [–]insertblankhere -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
      Veganism is much more dangerous than paleo. Paleo excludes things we never evolved to eat. Veganism excludes lots of stuff we evolved to eat.
      [–]Anivair 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      This is hardly the place for diet fights.
      [–]grimbotronic 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Send some books about healthy vegan eating to them, highlight the important parts.
      [–]demosthenes4585 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
      While I disagree with your lifestyle choice (oh my God, the things I want to say here), the school has no place to dictate what you feed your child. As long as her health can be verified by her pediatrician, the school should not be able to get away with this.
      [–]miparasito 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Internet stranger objections noted.
      [–]IHeartDay9 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      What kind of lunches are you sending? Meat should be meat and alternatives for protein, and dairy is like calcium and protein. Would something like hummus or smoked tofu on a veggie sandwich suffice? Maybe with a tumbler of soymilk?
      But honestly, this sounds like ignorance on the part of the school.
      Edit: you can also experiment with making your own meat substitutes using gluten flour. Gluten is a pretty good protein source if you don't have a sensitivity.
      [–]vans9140 -1 points0 points1 point  (42 children)
      While I appreciate your lifestyle, I would not impose this on my children until they are old enough to understand and make their own choices.
      [–]mymomisproblematic[S] 63 points64 points65 points  (17 children)
      This is a bit of a ridiculous sentiment. Everyone forces a certain diet on their child. No person would allow their child to make all of their own diet decisions. If your child wanted to just eat cookies and ice cream all day you wouldn't say "well I'm not going to impose a certain diet on them." Feeding your child meat is also "imposing a certain diet on them".
      My daughter has no desire to eat meat at this point anyway, she enjoys being vegan and doesn't like the idea of eating an animal. When she is older if she wants to eat meat she may, that will be her choice. But at five, I make the descions about what she eats, just like any other parent.
      [–]AstarteHilzarie 49 points50 points51 points  (2 children)
      If I didn't force my dietary decisions on my stepson he would live off cheetos and ketchup. (He wouldn't live for very long.)
      [–]ketchup_bot -10 points-9 points-8 points  (1 child)
      Ketchup is absolutely disgusting. It's a tomato that used to be yummy. Now it's a sad mash of acidic garbage drowned in an copious amount of sugar. If I wanted to get diabetes, I would prefer to get it eating something palatable.
      [–]AstarteHilzarie 13 points14 points15 points  (0 children)
      There really is a bot for everything these days.
      I agree with you, ketchup bot. I agree.
      [–]SmackEh 5 points6 points7 points  (11 children)
      It's not that ridiculous of a statement.. I think its just hard for us non-vegans to wrap out heads around a child being forced into a vegan lifestyle. Us non vegans feel like you are imposing your arguably eccentric diet onto your child. What are the developmental implications... Not sure.. Since there likely aren't enough studies..but at the end of the day.. Your kid.. Your decision.
      [–]mrshmllw 18 points19 points20 points  (9 children)
      There's plenty of evidence that vegan and vegetarian diets are just fine. And if you're concerned, you can get the kid's blood tested for nutrient levels regularly and reassess. But it is truly not an "eccentric" decision.
      [–]SmackEh 1 point2 points3 points  (5 children)
      {{Citation needed}}
      [–]mrshmllw 7 points8 points9 points  (3 children)
      How about a citation for meat-based diets being better?
      [–]SmackEh -4 points-3 points-2 points  (2 children)
      I get your point, but the baseline is the omnivorous diet (I.e. 99% of kids or whatever). Not saying its a good (or better) diet just that its the baseline everyone is familiar with (and happens to be the one this school is promoting)
      [–]mrshmllw 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
      My point is that the standard isn't necessarily right, and the people jumping in here complaining that this family is doing something wrong are misguided. Life requires more nuance than saying that one who deviates from the standard must be wrong.
      [–]SmackEh -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
      Well... Its bold to claim that a standard omnivorous diet isnt "right". We certainly know that it stood the test of time. Many non-vegans (such as myself) are skeptical and feel like it is a risk to deprive growing children of food that has been part of humanity since inception. If your belief is so strong that you want to assume that risk.. That is your prerogative as a parent.
      [–]seanyboycntripper666 -10 points-9 points-8 points  (2 children)
      Take two similar average high school boys and feed one a vegan diet and one a regular diet with meat and dairy... which one will be able to out lift, out run, and out last the other? Especially after several years of the diet? I'm guessing you'll know which one. That's the point, one is in much better objective shape - therefore there is clearly a "better diet" for a child
      [–]mrshmllw 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
      So, in your made up scenario, you're right?
      That's sound evidence right there.
      [–]blekkjaDad to a 7 yo boy, 2 yo girl with one on the way! 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      By the time I left school my mates regular diets consisted of toast for breakfast, mince pie from the dairy for lunch and Burger King for dinner. I'm sure that was way better for them than fresh veges, legumes, nuts and seeds.
      [–]autmned 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Most major dietetic orgs state that a vegan diet is safe and healthy for people of all stages of life.
      [–]thbt101 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      I think we can all agree that there are some diets that some people follow that are so unhealthy they would be considered child abuse.
      Whether or not a vegan diet is one of those is at least debatable and depends on how vigilant you are in giving them supplements to make sure they're getting all of the B12, calcium, iron, iodine, taurine, etc. It's not enough to just eat veggies and grains and think that's all you need because there's a little bit of calcium in broccoli. There's more to it then that.
      [–]insertblankhere 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Children are easily brainwashed. Hello, religion...
      [–]lizzydgreat 32 points33 points34 points  (5 children)
      Do you feed them meat? You are "forcing" an omnivorous lifestyle on them before they are old enough to make decisions....
      [–]rerun_ky 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
      I guess the question is is it different if you are follow a minority behavior. Is it imposing only if you are not following the overwhelming cultural standard. I like boxing and fighting, and think its how most kids problems should be solved. Yet I don't teach that as it is well outside the cultural norm. Apply the same logic to any other cultural choice circumcision for example.
      [–]reviliver 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
      The "overwhelming cultural standard," in this case, would be processed and fast food since that is what the majority of Canadians and Americans eat on a regular basis. I'm sure the school district would lay off if OP sent her kid with chef boyardee since it contains meat and cheese.
      The spirit of the rule is certainly to improve the health of the kids' lunches, but this rule does nothing to achieve that since a balanced vegan diet is much healthier than a meat-eating diet full of processed crap. The rule is now just an infringement of OP's right to feed her kid a healthy diet of her choosing, rather than achieving what it was set out to do.
      [–]Ol_Dirt -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
      It isn't a cultural standard. It is a natural standard imposed by millions of years of evolution.
      [–]sleepyj910 -5 points-4 points-3 points  (0 children)
      I'm not forcing if it's on their plate and they grab it. I'm offering because I want them to experience everything.
      [–]kt4softball -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
      Humans are natural omnivores. There's no forcing it, it's just what's in our biological code.
      That said I really don't care what OP and her family does. They can be vegans and fight the school system for what they want. More power to them. I'm just commenting on the fact that we are indeed omnivore animals. Carry on OP.
      [–]jabbsgeuwiabsvfj 19 points20 points21 points  (15 children)
      Stupid thing to say. So you make NO decisions for your child? You force YOUR diet/lifestyle on them you do realize? Accept people that are different than yourself and grow up.
      [–]starlord1971 14 points15 points16 points  (2 children)
      Then what do you say to all the parents who go thru drive ins? Get fast food for their kids? Is that not forcing lifestyle/food choices on children?
      [–]Akai_Hana -5 points-4 points-3 points  (1 child)
      More than one thing can be wrong at the same time. Imo children should only get fast food once in a while as a treat, and at the same time they should be able to taste a wide variety of foods and drinks. So forcing your small child to be a vegan when we didn't evolve for that kind of diet, is as bad as giving them lots of junk food.
      [–]reviliver 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
      A balanced vegan diet is MUCH healthier than a meat-eating diet full of processed fat and sugar. Meat vs no meat is not an indicator of a healthy diet.
      [–]vans9140 5 points6 points7 points  (10 children)
      My child has teeth in their mouth that evolved to eat both meat and vegetables. So do I and so do you. I would say it's more in line with evolutionary anthropology than veganism. I bet our early ancestors chipping at stone tools also shopped at Whole Foods to get quinoa and boca burgers.
      [–]dapolkadots 25 points26 points27 points  (0 children)
      I was a caretaker for my grandmother who was prescribed a vegan diet by her doctor for heart disease. I was completely surprised about how many nutrients are easily attained by vegetables, lentils, etc.. We actually met nutritional goals easier on the vegan diet than omnivore diet.
      OP said that (s)he would allow the child to eat meat when she requested it. As long as OP is providing nutritional meals, I don't see the problem with this.
      I eat meat all the time and still think that OP isn't doing anything wrong or negligent.
      [–]mymomisproblematic[S] 32 points33 points34 points  (4 children)
      I don't know why you felt it necessary to comment on this post honestly. It's not a post about wether or not kids should be vegan. I'm not a vegan that tries to tell other people that they should be vegan or should feed their kids vegan. If you want to feed your kid meat that's fine! Raise your children however you see fit, but you need to respect other people's choices as well.
      [–]joeflux -20 points-19 points-18 points  (3 children)
      I'm not a vegan that tries to tell other people that they should be vegan
      Um, except your kid.
      [–]mymomisproblematic[S] 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
      Yes you're right I tell my kid what she can and can't eat. Just like all parents. She's five, she doesn't get to make those desicions.
      [–]You_Are_Fake_News_ 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
      Reddit Logic Here
      You are literally the worst for guiding your child's actions. Don't you know babies should decide if they want to be circumcised , and toddlers should do research to decide if veganism is right for them?
      [–]joeflux -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
      Wow you support circumcision as well? Both male and female?
      [–]autmned 5 points6 points7 points  (3 children)
      This is a common misconception. Having canines doesn't necessarily mean your diet requires meat. Gorillas, for example, have huge canines and are largely herbivorous.
      [–]vans9140 -2 points-1 points0 points  (2 children)
      We aren't gorillas. We are related to another ape species. It's largely accepted by the scientific community that humans have jaw and brain size due to the switch to meat eating Millions of years ago, causing our huge evolutionary advantage as homo sapiens sapiens.
      I'm not here to argue, that's just what happened.
      [–]autmned 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
      Don't know if you're trolling... I didn't mean to suggest we're gorillas. Just trying to show that having big, sharp canines doesn't really mean we were built to eat meat.
      It's also largely accepted by the scientific community that it's perfectly okay and healthy to not eat meat anymore. Thanks to scientific advances, anyone who doesn't want to participate in the needless slaughter of animals can feel free to opt out without harming themselves or their offspring.
      There's also interesting evidence suggesting we may not be built to eat meat. Check out this video discussing this idea. (Citations in the about section).
      [–]Gigantkranion 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      I don't. I'm a pescetarian. For my own personal reasons and...
      My kids are practically pescetarian but, they do ask for a steak every once in a while. I don't inhibit any part of their diet. So I do but it and feed them chicken, pork as well.
      I want them to make their own choices as they grow and mature. They will likely be pescetarian or at least predominantly follow my diet style but it is not because of me. It is because of my example
      [–]NewdTayne 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
      You are the only sane person in this entire thread.
      [–]ehtio comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points  (6 children)
      How can your 5 years old daughter be vegan since birth? You meant you made her vegan from birth at your own choice. She didn't have a choice since she is too small for it. Why not to stick to a standard healthy diet for a 5 years old girl instead forcing her to eat what you choose for yourself? I mean, she will be able to do her own choices when she's grown up.
      I am totally up for all different types of believes and diets,everybody is different. But I think, from a nutritional point of view, that a toddler should eat some meat, fish and dairy to be able to get the nutrients she needs. I mean, being objective it is the best way. She is too small to make a life style choice and she needs those nutrients.
      I really don't understand why we have to impose to our kids what we want for ourselves. Let's them chose when they are big enough to understand the consequences
      [–]mrshmllw 20 points21 points22 points  (0 children)
      I'm sure that the irony of you calling this parent out for imposing her beliefs on her child while simultaneously imposing your beliefs on her child is lost on you.
      But here's a hint: what you think about nutrition doesn't matter at all unless you are the kid's parent or doctor.
      [–]mymomisproblematic[S] 34 points35 points36 points  (2 children)
      A vegan diet is absolutely healthy when done correctly, a toddler can get the nutrients they need without eating dairy or meat. No my child did not have a choice about what they ate from birth. No child does. Feeding your child meat is also imposing on them a certain diet. Every parent imposes a certain diet on their kids. No parent lets their kid eat junk food all day because they "don't want to impose a certain diet".
      My daughter is healthy. I make sure she gets all the proper nutrients and I consult with her doctor about it. If you choose to feed your child meat to get certain nutrients, that's great! You do you. I make the choices about what my five year old eats. Just like any other parent. When she's older if she chooses to not be vegan that's her choice. I respect people who don't raise their kids vegan, I expect that people would respect that I do.
      [–]bluesky557 18 points19 points20 points  (0 children)
      Ugh, sorry OP that you're having to defend your veganism when that's not at all what you asked. :(
      [–]Znekcam 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
      I'm sorry about all the people attacking you for this OP. While I'm not a vegan myself, I think the whole "imposing your diet" argument is not the proper way to debate this topic because like you said, every parent imposes their diet in some way.
      I think the more constructive argument has to do with range and diversity.
      If I feed my child meat and dairy along with all the other food groups and clusters that you as a vegan parent do, my child has a opportunity to experience a broader range of food, solely based on the fact that they could eat all meats, cheeses, milks etc. My child might have a way less diverse palate then yours, but since I don't exclude any type of food from their diet, my child's opportunity to experience more foods is larger. You can still be healthy without that range, but if they never experience those foods as a child chances are they will never adopt them as an adult, and some people see that as taking away opportunity to eat those food (but to those people I say like come on people it's just food) I think it's a weak argument because if you as an adult choose to be vegan you shouldn't have to go against your lifestyle for something so trivial. I'm just trying explain a little more logically where these people are coming from.
      I respect your choice to raise your daughter vegan, you sound like you're doing a great job! Keep it up mama!
      PS. The school sounds like complete loonies! I'd just ignore it and challenge them to discipline you. If they do... then bring in the ole' mama bear flare :)
      [–]mymomisproblematic[S] 15 points16 points17 points  (21 children)
      If you don't agree with a vegan diet then don't feed your child one, it's quite simple. Feed your child whatever you think is good for them, and I will do the same.
      My daughter is healthy. I have consulted with her doctor many times since she was born about how to feed her a vegan diet effectively and healthily. I make sure she gets all the necessary nutrients. She is five so no, she doesn't get to make her own decisions when it comes to what she eats. Although if you asked her if she wants to eat meat she would say no, because eating animals is "yucky" to her. Its not really that hard to believe that once a child makes the connection that those cute pigs she saw at a farm are the same ones on her dinner plate, she might not want to eat them. Thank you for your unneeded concern.
      [–]autmned 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
      Most major dietetic orgs state that vegan diets are safe and healthy for people of all stages of life. Most well informed parents can easily ensure their children are getting adequate nutrition on a vegan diet.
      The incidents highlighted are caused by neglect and ignorance which could have just as easily happened with non-vegan parents. There are likely to be frequent incidents like this with non-vegan parents that don't get reported on because they're not interesting.
      [–]dlopoel 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Welcome to post modernism where everybody think that they are a scientist because they have access to internet! Alternative facts, subjective reality, whatever you call it... My vegans friends have ended up giving up on forcing their kids to eat their alternative food at school as they were always ending up trading their food to get some meat and cheese from their friends. Nature always finds its way.!
      [–]ArbitraryIndividual 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Can you send in foods with vitamin D, calcium, fat and protein?
      [–]ashburnmom 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      School should give ample notification and provide all related documents to the parents, including sources used in the process. Civility and respectful discussions between parents and school would be a great starting place. Best of luck OP!
      [–]buffalo_x 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      You need to ensure that she is meeting the nutritional guidelines. While nothing wrong being vegan (I'm not one), some parents do not account the energy children need for proper development or just the daily caloric requirement for a healthy lifestyle.
      Look at the recommended nutritional values established by your government for healthy child development, then meet those with your diet. Also label the foods, and give the list to your school.
      Also have a note provided by your pediatrician saying this diet is ok.
      If that doesn't work, you may need to take action to the school district to put in place a measure for children with special diets because you are probably not the only one dealing with this.
      [–]seanbeag 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      What country are you in that the school can interfere so heavily in the way you raise your child?
      [–]Mmw554 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Unbelievable that they are wasting their time bothering you who clearly cares about your child's health. Assuming you are sending meals composed of mostly vegetables, legume and fruit- You are so conscious of her health that you have chosen a way for her to eat that causes more work for you so she will be healthier (trust me, I know- I am currently consuming vegan food only and I have my masters in nutrition). What a waste of their money. They should absolutely be concentrating on improving the diets of kids bringing processed sodium and saturated fat laden foods. Sorry- no advice, just sympathy.
      Though I might consider bringing this to the district level. Print off a nutritional analysis of a meal you send vs. a typical meal. Then try to let them tell you how to feed your kid!
      [–]chaoswife 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      I don't have any advice that hasn't already been offered but I just want to say this.. I am so freaking sick of the schools questioning what parents feed their kids!! The lunches they serve at school are ridiculously high in sodium and their extremely processed. Don't get me wrong.. We eat processed foods in our house. But don't get onto me about what I feed my kid unless you're going to do the same. Bah!!
      [–]sheloveschocolate 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Just write on Tupperware meat substitute and diary substitute. In the UK we have healthy eating guidelines for lunch boxes well my area does anyways.
      My lunch as a kid - sandwich packet of crisps/chips a yogurt and a small chocolate bar like a penguin bar and a juice
      My kids lunch- sandwich/wrap/salad packet of crisps banana grapes strawberries and once in a blue moon a treat like a small cake
      What they actually eat is cheese spread sandwich and a packet of crisps(for my boy) my girl will have crackers a third of cucumber(as she won't eat a sandwich wrap etc etc anymore) a packet of crisps and two portions of fruit
      I really don't understand why they are saying you need meat and diary in the lunchbox
      [–]El_Fer 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      I think you are answering your own question "Now if you aren't totally familiar with veganism you might think this is fine." You need to explain to the principal how is the vegan diet and how your daughter has all the nutrients that she needs, the problem here is that the principal (like me for example) don't know how calcium, protein, etc are replaced in the vegan diet with other products.
      [–]SSapplejack 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Can you send a note from the child's doctor saying her diet is fine and she's a perfectly healthy child? if you can get out of vaccinations with a note from a church surely a drs note would suffice to get your sending food they don't eat?
      [–]malpal11 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      I am a teacher, in America, and I am appalled by this. I have never heard of a district mandating the lunch brought from home. School lunch yes - they must get a milk and something from the fruit/veggie bar. You are not in the wrong. They must be respectful of your dietary choices. I agree with getting a doctor's note, and you could even push it as far as "religious reasons," even if that isn't true. Just wow. Good luck with this!!
      [–]poesalterego 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      They are bring ridiculous and obviously on auto-pilot about the policy. I think you should send them one last email saying that will not work, and ask specifically for the protein and calcium guidelines. It is obvious those are the real requirements simplified to meat and milk. Hopefully that will encourage them to think critically about their own policy, and allow you to explain to them in reasonable terms how you meet them. Vegan mom here, and this sounds super obnoxious, but I'm sure they are coming from a good place, just an I'll informed one.
      [–]ifman 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Say you're Seventh Day Adventist and that they are discriminating against you.
      [–]Greenbeanhead 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      This person didn't list what they're sending the kid to school with, so why is everyone defending them? For all we know this kid is eating carrots and celery with water for lunch.
      [–]sharktayto 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Holy shit, so sorry OP that you're dealing with all these asshats criticizing your parenting choices. I'm vegan, my son is vegan and we're all doing just great! If you need to rally the troops I know a great vegan group who would be willing to petition against this 'policy' by the district.
      [–]The_Jinx_Effect -6 points-5 points-4 points  (10 children)
      Let your daughter decide if she wants to be vegan, she's old enough and it's also healthy not to be.
      Buy a small amount of milk and a little bit of chicken and tell her she can eat it if she chooses.
      Perhaps she likes it and wants more, then you can give to her for lunch.
      TLDR: She doesn't have to be vegan because you are.
      [–]blekkjaDad to a 7 yo boy, 2 yo girl with one on the way! 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
      She's five. I think she would need to be a little bit older before given that choice.
      [–]The_Jinx_Effect 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
      What choice? She tries it and likes it, or doesn't.
      [–]blekkjaDad to a 7 yo boy, 2 yo girl with one on the way! 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      The complex ethical, environmental, social and health choices. It's not simply a question of does she like the taste or not.
      I've had a friend who was raised vegetarian from birth. When she was a kid, before she was old enough to really understand, she pressured her mum into letting her try meat. (All her friends got to have saveloys at birthday parties, etc, why couldn't she?) She didn't like the taste - fine. Went back to vege life. But by the time she was a teenager she really regretted it. Her vegetarianism was really important to her and she felt that she had let both her and her mum down for doing that. She's just one person, sure, but it was a memorable conversation, and one that I will remember when it comes to my kids.
      [–]mymomisproblematic[S] 8 points9 points10 points  (4 children)
      I won't be doing that. I will raise my daughter how I see fit. If you don't agree, that's fine, raise your kids how you want. It should not bother you that someone else chooses to feed their child a vegan diet.
      This is the same as me suggesting you show videos to your kid of what happens to cows at slaughterhouses, or what happens to baby chicks at egg farms that are male and can't lay eggs. Which I would never suggest you do, because I respect that everyone makes their own choices on how to raise their kids. I don't care if your kid eats meat, that's your choice, so why do you care if mine does.
      [–]thbt101 -4 points-3 points-2 points  (1 child)
      There are sources of humanely raised farm animals and animal products. But if you're adamant about enforcing your dietary views on your children, please at least be sure that you are giving them nutritional supplements for the nutrients that can't typically be found in adequate amounts in non-animal foods.
      [–]jaykwalker 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      There is really no such thing as humane dairy. We all impose our dietary views on our children and it sounds as if OP has her daughter's nutritional needs covered. Live and let live.
      [–]The_Jinx_Effect comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points  (0 children)
      Why not keep her on a vegetarian and not vegan diet.
      No need to eat meat, mushrooms will do. Cheese should cover the dairy aspect. And you can buy free range eggs directly from a farmer if you worry about the chickens so much.
      [–]Phalange44 -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
      Cool, more meat for me and my kids!
      [–]ashburnmom 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
      Yes. Yes, she does. That's how it works in a family. The parent(s) make decisions for the kids and that's that. When the children grow up, they can decide for themselves. Kid's don't run the family.
      [–]autmned 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Most major dietetic orgs state that a vegan diet is safe and healthy for people of all stages of life.
      [–]funchy -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
      What an absolutely infuriating situation. How dare they police a 5 year olds lunch? And they're not even right when they're making these idiot comments.
      Who in the district came up with these stupid policies? Can you speak to that person directly?
      Find out what Idiot Principal needs to close this issue. Vegans don't need "vegan meats". It's NOT NEEDED. Ample protein comes from plenty of veg sources. Would a note from her doctor suffice? If he won't be reasonable I'd ask if a letter from your attorney would be better.
      I wish it was my kid because I'd go nuclear about this. I'd want the district to permanently change their policies. milk isn't a requirement of any balanced diet. The benefit is calcium which can be obtained elsewhere. And meat is easily replaced with veg proteins. No it's better to stuff kids with greasy processed factoryfarmed pressed chicken nuggets?
      I'd also want to know how this school has the resources to check every child's lunchbox? Most schools are crying they don't have the funding or manpower to accomplish core goals. So this district has so much money they can pay the teachers to inspect sandwich contents and pay the principle to contact parents over it?
      Good luck to you. In a world where most people have almost zero nutritional education, I wish you luck dealing with your school's ignorant folks
      [–]thbt101 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Just to be clear, you can't get all the nutrients you need from non-animal sources without at least some artificial supplements. But fake meat products aren't usually a good source of those nutrients either.
      [–]03ifa014 -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
      Why is your 5 year old child a vegan? Since birth?! Does she have health issues?
      [–]Pstrptr -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
      "I'm the parent. This is my child. Her food is none of your damn business." Repeat as needed.
      [–]notjakers 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Without reading anything, I would love to send back a letter that said basically:
      Sir/ madam Principal: Your dietary guidelines are not well supported by science and ipthe diet you recommend does not help students focus and learn. As such, I recommend that you meet with experienced nutritionists that can develop better guidelines for your school and use them as guidelines rather than rules. In the meantime, I will continue to ignore the guidelines as it is clearly in my child's best interest. If you think it is appropriate to discipline children for eating healthy lunches that do not follow your outdated guidelines, then I will be happy to discuss this with you at the next school board meeting..
      But I wouldn't actually send that.
      [–]twoshoes23 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      beans and rice covers all bases
      [–]F_your_feelins -9 points-8 points-7 points  (1 child)
      Dam that school trying to have your kids best interest. Honestly being vegan is cool and all but I'm pretty sure your kid dint come out of the womb saying "hey mom I really don't want any meat, dairy, or anything even close to that". I feel like your kind of doing your kid a disservice by forcing that lifestyle on them. It's pretty shitty to think that a kid might not be getting the proper nutrients to FULL grow and develop because their parents are forcing veganism on them. Would you feel ok if you found out they were actually malnourished? Just asking an honest question. There was a story here in the US recently where a child died because their parents forced a vegan lifestyle onto them. Just a little food for thought. By all means continue what your doing though if they are getting the proper nutrients and actually want to be vegan
      [–]autmned 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
      Most major dietetic orgs state that a vegan diet is safe and healthy for people of all stages of life.
      [–]diggexpat -14 points-13 points-12 points  (2 children)
      "My daughter is vegan and has been since birth."
      Oh, you're one of those. Whatever.
      Pack this stuff they ask for. She doesn't have to eat it, and they can't make her.
      [–]firenzest 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      One of those... parents? Yes, she is a parent.
      [–]reviliver 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
      Sure, cause everyone has money sitting around to waste on food that will be thrown away, just to follow a stupid rule that does nothing to encourage kids to be healthy. /s
      [–]kidsrcuterthancats 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Could you put some tofu or tempeh in a bag labeled "meat". Maybe send some almond milk in a thermos and claim "dairy"
      [–]snickersmum 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      Can you wrap some of her lunch up in the packaging from the substitute items to make it look like she's got the required meat and dairy products?
      ETA: seems like a lot of unnecessary effort, it's ridiculous that they are causing a fuss over a vegan diet that your daughter has obviously thrived on.
      [–]motsanciens 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      May I suggest that you get a vacuum sealed slice of bologna and throw it in the lunch every day? Keep reusing it, no one has to eat it. Also, I wouldn't necessarily assume the principal truly believes what they wrote. It's just a bureaucratic answer.
      [–]catby 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      I entirely wish schools would fuck off and get out if people's business about what they feed their children. I don't care if some parents are feeding their kids pop tarts abs Kool aid, it's none of the schools business. As long as the kid is being fed, I don't care what they're eating.
      My kid's school was ridiculous about some lunch things but not nearly this bad. It was more like the juice I sent with my kid wasn't juicy enough or some other crap.
      What kind of "disciplinary action" are they going to take exactly? At this point I'd send what I wanted and they can damn well keep sending their notes. Just try to discipline my kid over their lunch. Try me.
      [–]Halophilic 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
      I am just not willing to have my child eat vegan meat everyday, it would not be healthy.
      My kids eat chicken nuggets and french fries and are athletic and in gifted programs. Children are tough. They can withstand a little "unhealthy" one meal out of the day if it means less heat from the school. You have to pick your battles and I'm not sure getting your kid labeled as the problem kid over this is the hill you want to die on.
      (not suggesting that you violate your veganism, but that avoiding the "unhealthy" vegan substitutes may not be the wisest course)
      [–]R961ROP -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
      Your daughter is 5. She has not chosen to be vegan. You have imposed your beliefs on her.
      [–]Magicteapotbeliever -3 points-2 points-1 points  (2 children)
      I think you should feed your child all the food groups until she's old enough to decide on her own.
      [–]GrammaMo 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
      You realize that the food groups include "...and alternatives" right? And that they are very strange and arbitrary distinctions and that dairy is only a food group because of its massive budget and lobbying power?
      [–]tacosaladinabowl 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
      Just like you should feed your child dog meat until they are old enough to decide not to eat it.
      [–]greenit_elvis -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
      Why not buy a piece of cured ham (or some other long-lived meat) and put in the box, and let your daughter just leave it in the box? She just has to carry the same piece back and forth to school.
      [–]AvatarIII -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
      My daughter is vegan and has been since birth,
      You mean, apart from breastmilk right?
      [–]jefeperro -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
      Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
      I'm sorry, but stop forcing veganism onto your child
      [–]pickituputitdown -11 points-10 points-9 points  (1 child)
      That is outrageous, honestly, who makes someone a vegan from birth?
      [–]ashburnmom 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
      Omg! I know, right! Because all babies are able to make those decisions for themselves! FFS. Lifestyle choices other than yours are valid you know!
      [–]jordanlund -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
      It's not your job to respect the district guidelines, it's THEIR job to respect YOUR guidelines.
      I do see a concern over the "vegan from birth" line in that your daughter never had an option, this is a self imposed choice you made for her, one I would never consent to.
      But that doesn't change the fact that it's your choice and the school and the busybodies in the district absolutely do not get to over-ride you.
      p.s. Make falafel patties and give her cocoanut milk. The dummies at the school will not be able to tell the difference.
      [–]RockOutRex -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
      My buddy works in a kindergarten, and is witnessing first hand the effects of vegan diets on kids. Your daughter is not a vegan bro, she is 5 years old. -You- are a vegan. Give her some milk and maybe some meat. Ask your doctor about nutrition advice if you don't want to take my word for it. Also, she might need a shot from time to time. Don't get nutrition advice from biased vegan sites. Kids even die frim malnutrition from following advice from those sites. She needs other things than plants as she is growing. Let her make up her mind if she wants to be a vegan or not after puberty, as the most critical part is over by then. Living with you, I'm sure she will have a low meat diet regardless.
      [–]peetrudeau -14 points-13 points-12 points  (1 child)
      Hey just throw some cheese and jerky in the lunch box and call it a day. Not like your kid will have to eat it. If you're like me, you won't have time to fight this until the end.
      [–]Nihilistic-Fishstick 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
      But what if she does eat it? That would mean she actually gets a choice though.
      [–]allouiscious -10 points-9 points-8 points  (0 children)
      I would threaten to move. Also mention you kid does great on standardized tests and our would be a shame if they lost a good student over such a small issue.
      [–]SimonBelmond -5 points-4 points-3 points  (1 child)
      May I pose a side question which I have always wondered?
      Do vegans breast-feed their children?
      [–]roughmusic 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
      Yes, veganism is about harm to animals.
      [–][deleted]  (1 child)
      [deleted]
        [–]ifallalot -4 points-3 points-2 points  (0 children)
        You made a choice and forced a choice upon your daughter to live outside the norms of society. This is what you have to deal with now.
        [–]whenifeellikeit -7 points-6 points-5 points  (0 children)
        Did you breastfeed her?
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