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Viking metal is today's featured article on Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org)

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[–]NGC_6960 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (15子コメント)

nice fuckin memes on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Viking_metal_bands
Primordial, Emperor, Eluveitie, Sabaton, Skeletonwitch are sooooooo viking

[–]GriffsWorkComputer 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (11子コメント)

For what it's worth that is just just a healthy list of awesome bands with not much in common

[–]maanu123 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Bathory better be there

[–]NottRegular 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bathory, viking metal? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

[–]maanu123 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its a joke lol but if they put amon amarth but not Bathory, im offended af

[–]AveLuciferSay elitist 3 times to summon me 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (13子コメント)

From the same authorities on metal that made Medieval Metal a genre, separate from Folk Metal.

[–]wickedvomit 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Didn't know this was a thing, but holy shit

[–]AveLuciferSay elitist 3 times to summon me 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's a whole new level of memeing.

[–]Fiyaa 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What the fuck is that?

[–]wickedvomit 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Apparently it's Medieval Metal, absolutely not to be confused with Medieval Steel.

[–]AveLuciferSay elitist 3 times to summon me 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

absolutely not to be confused with Medieval Steel.

I cannot stress this enough.

[–]chmasterl 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What... in the fuck?

[–]ItsBitingMe 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Does that band sound as stupid as it looks?

[–]AveLuciferSay elitist 3 times to summon me 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes.

And I have no idea how this is even remotely considered metal by Wikipedia's editors. There aren't even guitars.

[–]TribeWarsAluminium isn't Heavy Metal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lol 15 bands

[–]qwertzinator 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a German peculiarity, I suppose, but there's a whole scene around it.

[–]AveLuciferSay elitist 3 times to summon me 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is this the type of generic filler they line Wacken with? I've seen images of similar bands before at Wacken.

[–]wickedvomit 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've seen stuff like this at festivals as filler or to close out when everyone's fucking hammered. Had no idea there was an actual scene devoted to this shit, just thought they were local ma and pa type bands.

[–]TheEquimanthorn 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

WE WUZ VIKANGS AND SHIT metal

Also why is "sea shanties" in its stylistic origins?

[–]therealfuckderek 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Adding actual scholarly material in hopes of legitimization?

[–]PestilentSwarm 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Wow. This article is such a huge waste for the poor bastard that put it together. He's basically describing Folk Metal but trying to make it about Vikings.

Sorry guys but lyrics are just poems sung to music. A genre is not defined by poetry. A genre is defined by the style of music. This is why all the memetic genres like Forest-Medieval-Sorcery-Metal make no sense and are only funny to the people trying to make fun of metal fans.

[–]TheEquimanthorn 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah the whole Viking thing is so tenuous anyway. Firstly we have no idea what Viking music sounded like so it doesn't take any influence from that. The lyrical themes themselves are very shallow too, it's like using a Venom album as a serious study of Satanism. Nordaboo LARPers are so fucking obnoxious, I swear.

The time is right to post an old shitpost of mine:

Heil og sæl, my name is Bjorn Battleaxe.

I'm a 27 year old Huscarl (Viking warrior for you Christians). I take long walks in the woods whilst playing folk metal from my phone and spend my days perfecting my Norse swordcraft. I listen to superior Viking metal on my PC (Amon Amarth, Enslaved and Finntroll).

I train with my Dane Axe everyday. this superior weapon can cut clean through steel because it is forged in the fires of Valhalla, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth. I earned my axe license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.

I speak Norse fluently, both Old Gutnish and the Icelandic dialect, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about Viking history and their Hirdman code, which I follow 100%.

When I get my Norwegian visa, I am moving to Bergen to join a prestigious Viking warband to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become a berserker or a roadie for Amon Amarth or Einherjer!

I own several hauberks and XXXL Enisferum shirts, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to Norway, so I can fit in easier. I honour my brothers in hall up high and speak Norwegian as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond. Wish me luck in Norway!

[–]VictimsOfDeception 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's concerning that I've known people for whom that's only a slight exaggeration.

[–]PestilentSwarm 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Skal!

I own several hauberks and XXXL Enisferum shirts, which I wear around town.

You know that laughing emoji with the tears? If we were on Facebook, that would be my response.

[–]real_cthulhu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Huh, well TIL of nordaboos. Are vikings and norse mythology even considered that big a part of modern scandinavian culture or is it more like cowboys and indians in the US?

[–]PestilentSwarm 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nordaboos isn't a thing. Well...it is. But its not like...a name for a thing.

And I would imagine in every day life in Scandinavia, Viking ancestry is about as important as honoring the Teutons are in Germany.

[–]agalsedWrathchild 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dis gon' be good.

[–]maanu123 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Castle metal!!

[–]BrotherThelonius 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Didn't Amon Amarth say they're not Viking metal despite every theme is Viking lore? Is it because they don't wanna be associated with possible nationalism/right wing ideals?

Edit: thanks for the replies!

[–]PestilentSwarm 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because lyrics do not define your genre. The music does. Amon Amarth are melodic death metal.

[–]Tahuru 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's because viking metal has a specific sound of black/folk metal where as Amon Amarth's music is very clearly death metal. Lyrics don't determine a band's genre.

[–]GriffsWorkComputer 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

they were saying if you classify them as Viking metal because of their lyrics than by those standards so is Led Zeppelin

[–]IDRINKYOURMILK-SHAKE 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Johan Hegg of Amon Amarth stated, "It's weird to label a band after the lyrical content because, in that case, Iron Maiden is a Viking metal band, Black Sabbath is a Viking metal band, Led Zeppelin is a Viking metal band." -from the wiki

[–]TheeTrashcanManBlack is Love 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you read the wiki article, they do mention Amon Amarth and Unleashed, but fairly add in statements from Johan Hegg (from Amon Amarth) disputing the label of a "viking metal band."

[–]I_Smell_PantiesDarkEdgeX5 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This will go over well

[–]amirrorbehind 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm reading all the "lyrics don't make a genre" posts in this thread and I'm trying to understand how people would have described first wave black metal, which was basically lyrics and image. The same sort of thing is happening across melodic death metal, death metal, black metal and some power metal, and it seems to be a worthy bucket. Sometimes a genre is a sound, sometimes it's not. What's so hard about that?

[–]DharmicWolfsangelI pray...for total death. 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

First Wave black metal is only called as such because of the image and lyrics. You would be hard pressed to find a knowledgeable source that claims all of those bands to be black metal as it is commonly understood. For the most part, those bands fall under thrash (Sodom and the like), speed metal (Venom) or some mix of the two (Hellhammer, Bathory self-titled). The label of "first wave black metal" simply designates those bands as being influential on the genre. Maybe it's a misnomer though, as I can see how confusion would arise.

[–]amirrorbehind 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes and no. The way it has always made sense to me is the general historical perspectives of orthodox and either revisionist or post-revisionist comes into play here. At the time, i.e. if you were a thrasher in '84, you might say that Celtic Frost or Mercyful Fate was black metal. But now, looking back, we say "the thing you guys called black metal doesn't really make sense so we're kind of redefining it".

So when you say

The label of "first wave black metal" simply designates those bands as being influential on the genre.

I disagree, it was about the image and lyrics those bands used. Though they could be simultaneously influential (and probably were).

[–]DharmicWolfsangelI pray...for total death. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I disagree, it was about the image and lyrics those bands used.

Listen, I'm not trying to be pedantic, but did you read the first sentence of my previous comment? It literally says the exact same thing. Influence comes in many forms, musical as well as ideological. There is no reason for those things to be mutually exclusive.

[–]amirrorbehind 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I misinterpreted what you wrote is all. I thought you were suggesting they were influential sonically, not via imagery / lyrics. Thanks for clearing that up.

[–]DharmicWolfsangelI pray...for total death. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thought you were suggesting they were influential sonically, not via imagery / lyrics. Thanks for clearing that up.

I was. You can hear shades of Bathory in pretty much every second wave release. Like I said, musical and lyrical influence often go hand in hand.

[–]amirrorbehind 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes completely. I think I'm losing focus though. I was trying to illustrate that in the case of first wave black metal, artists, fans, and musicians alike referred to music containing satanic/similar imagery as black metal. And that people did this more or less as soon as Venom's Black Metal was released.

So because people at the time used the phrase black metal to lump Venom, Slayer, and Mercyful Fate - which are sonically quite different, it sets an example for why viking metal today can be considered, in some way, a genre.

There. Sorry, sometimes I write some scatterbrained stuff :)

[–]PestilentSwarm 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

First wave BM didn't know they were first wave BM just like Black Sabbath didn't know they were the fathers of Heavy Metal. We call them first wave because it's a catch phrase that's commonly accepted over "proto-black metal".

[–]swjmswjm 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

while totally on the side of 'viking metal is barely a thing, and even then only some Bathory inspired stuff', I think your First Wave BM point is a really good one.

I'd say there's not really enough to distinguish 'viking metal' from the rest of what's going on, but in general I see no reason whatsoever to constrain things with "lyrics don't make genre" or any nonsense like that. They could. They do. Just... not here?

[–]amirrorbehind 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed except the not enough part. It's a difficult thing to be strictly logical about. Just because a band sings about vikings doesn't make them viking metal, and just because they don't sing about vikings doesn't mean they're not. I happen to be of the opinion that it's enough.

Same deal with "pagan metal".

[–]Sengionhttp://www.last.fm/user/Sengion 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

characterized by a lyrical and thematic focus on Norse mythology, Norse paganism, and the Viking Age.

[–]JessicaSc2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't take this article seriously. By that definition Manowar or Stormwarrior are viking metal because of their lyrics.

[–]real_cthulhu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I kind of want a Wikipedia article on metal elitism with a section about "response to Wikipedia and Sam Dunn"

[–]AveLuciferSay elitist 3 times to summon me 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I will not rest until I have my own section in that article.

[–]DharmicWolfsangelI pray...for total death. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Stuff like this is why I don't donate to Wikipedia.

[–]TribeWarsAluminium isn't Heavy Metal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eeh its mathematics and science articles are sooo fucking useful.

[–]DarthDonut 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Musical genres are not defined lyrically.

[–]kaptain_carbonThe Stoned Otter 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Except for NSBM for some reason.

[–]amirrorbehind 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And first wave black metal, RABM, pagan metal (which does also have some audio characteristics), and, ostensibly, viking metal!

[–]NoahTheDuke 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Black metal in general. Most folks don't classify "white metal"/christian black metal as trve black metal.

[–]WraithVomit 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

shudders

[–]SFW_developerHeavy Metal Code Magician 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is why metal-archives needs their own wiki pages on genres.

[–]area88guy -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wasn't even aware of this until I met /u/seregkat and now I love the genre.