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DiscussionIs anyone else annoyed at liberals calling socialist the "Alt Left" (self.LeftWithoutEdge)

HelloOperator3Market Socialist, banned from r/socialism が 投稿

I see liberals all the time bashing socialist for being racist (right now I'm being attacked on twitter for saying socialism would help solve racism by dismantling class structure and imperialism and being called racist for not supporting liberals ) it's disgusting that liberals would rather attack leftist and tweet than fight fascism and work towards a better society. It's not being a purist I won't vote for a capitalist warmongerer. It's basic human decency not to expect leaders to bomb mercilessly

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[–]InOranAsElsewhereanarchist communist | veganarchist 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I see the attempt to try and make "the alt-left" a thing is really, really bizarre for liberals. I think throwing it around as an epitaph while ignoring that some have already tried to claim that label just demonstrates something I really noticed about mainstream liberals: they don't have as strong of an understanding of the various philosophies and ideologies in politics.

[–]HelloOperator3Market Socialist, banned from r/socialism[S] 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup they actually have no understanding of politics since they think tweeting beats fascism

[–]willbell 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (7子コメント)

If anything wouldn't the alt-left be like Sam Harris?

[–]Prince_Kropotkinanarchist-dramatist 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sam Harris is more like "all the smart academics seem to be on what's called the 'left', so I'll say I'm also on the left for credibility purposes while spouting reactionary viewpoints at a ridiculous clip". He's a fucking phony, a hack, and a sorry excuse for a philosopher, to repeat myself.

[–]Malevolent_USB_DriveUphold Marxist-Varoufakisism 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I think someone called me alt-left within the past few days on reddit, I was totally bewildered.

[–]InOranAsElsewhereanarchist communist | veganarchist 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I could see how you'd think that, but there has been a group referring to themselves as the "alt-left" for awhile, which is bizarre mix of anti-capitalism and "race realism." How they manage to hold such contradictory views, I have no idea.

[–]HelloOperator3Market Socialist, banned from r/socialism[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

leftypol?

[–]InOranAsElsewhereanarchist communist | veganarchist 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, there's definitely some overlap.

[–]photonsperches 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you bring up "race realism" on leftypol you'll get intellectually dismantled.

[–]MiniEquine 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Were not some of the world's leftist regimes also pretty racist? Like, economic leftist policy without class structure but also a general dislike of other races? I feel like China might be an example. I do agree that it is hypocritical, though.

[–]SiderollerLibertarian Socialist 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see it mostly used by twitter liberals and I don't see it catching on outside of there at all (yeah I think some pundits probably used it in some articles too but...)

But yeah, it just speaks to their ignorance.

[–]Prince_Kropotkinanarchist-dramatist 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's just a bunch of liberals completely out of ideas and flailing around trying to tie the Left to neo-Nazism in some shitty way since they don't have any actual arguments.

Also see this nonsense here for another example: https://thinkprogress.org/the-center-has-fallen-and-white-nationalism-is-filling-the-vacuum-beb0611dfe94 (via Freddie deBoer)

[–]HelloOperator3Market Socialist, banned from r/socialism[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Christ that section on the labor party gave me cancer

[–]LeftRatSocial Democrat 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I haven't seen it used, but yeah, I'd say that's silly and futile, especially since it invites comparison to the alt-right - who are nothing but a PR-friendly Neo-Nazi movement.

[–]Prince_Kropotkinanarchist-dramatist 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the point is more or less to say "anyone who's outside the Overton Window is a racist or bigot in some way" by using the "alt" terminology and bringing up Richard Spencer.

[–][deleted] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

especially since it invites comparison to the alt-right

Possibily because the liberals using it believe in le horsehoe theory.

[–]SmienDirty Revisionist 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everytime i've seen the "alt-left" then there's people claiming to be leftists, but against immigration and the likes lol

Edit: Think "the left", but without focus on fighting inequality. It's contradictory and makes you belong somewhere in the political centrum at best

[–]YourGayOpinion 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Its actually "Ctrl-Lft", ie tankies.

[–]Pperson25 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And the shift-center is easy to shift and manipulate.

[–]TheChtaptiskFithp 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I always seen that term refer more to "SJWs" who are more meme based.

[–]SirNeonanarcho-communist 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, it's really annoying. I've been hearing the term "alt-left" on TV news to refer to BLM/Sanders supporters, so looks like it's hitting the mainstream.

[–]Luclinn 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Using "Alt-left" seems fitting, I think, for those that share the authoritarian and polarizing qualities of the alt-right. Case in point /r/socialism, It seems both have a way to manipulate the truth to fit their narrative.

[–]test822 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

good, let them do it. it makes us seem more relevant.

we could use a rebranding to come up with a fresher image instead of a bunch of black and white pictures of old dead foreign dudes.

[–]Prince_Kropotkinanarchist-dramatist 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I would agree that a rebranding would be fun if it were not for the fact that the "alt" thing is trying to tie us to the "alt-right", aka neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Liberals who say this alt-left stuff know exactly what they're doing.

Weird/Left Twitter & the Chapo Trap House crew have come up with the "Dirtbag Left" which is much funnier but also probably not very useful as a label for the public.

[–]MiniEquine -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Dirtbag is basically an insult, so nobody would have trouble using it to describe the left except us.

[–]Prince_Kropotkinanarchist-dramatist 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They gave the name to themselves, for whatever reason. Part of being on the Dirtbag Left is not giving a shit about what liberals think, I guess.

[–]HelloOperator3Market Socialist, banned from r/socialism[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

how dare you not care about what liberals think reeeeeee that's what let trump win and you want trump winning? NO, it's all you dirty socialists fault why we have Trump /s

[–]voice-of-hermesanarchist 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just needs a mascot. Pig-Pen? ;-)

[–]voice-of-hermesanarchist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Desperation. The Democrats, apparently, want to define themselves as "left" no matter what kind of actual ideology they preach and practice. So if they're the "real left," what are socialists? Must be something else. Hmm. What can we tie socialism to in order to discredit it even more than red scare tactics have over the last 100 years? Oh! I know...!