上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 313

[–]-DarthWind 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (8子コメント)

So what happened to Celebrimbor here?

[–]ThirstyPagans[S] 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (4子コメント)

It looks like when the ring is complete and bound to talion, he is expelled. I suppose only one can hold the power? It also says they ring makes him invisible to any who seek it. Maybe celebrimbor wanted the power of the ring...

[–]SchrodingersWitcher 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It appears he was involved in some source of darkness. Also their Ring of Power should be as powerful as the One but i dont think it has down sides.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well Celerumbagel is gone so that's a downside.

[–]Kashmoney99 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ohhhhh! Calebrimbor wanted the ring, that sounds really interesting storyline.

[–]MuzenCab 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But he would still appear to the ranger wpuldnt he?

[–]articleofpeace 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My impression was that, just like Sauron bound a part of his soul to the ring, when Talion created the ring it bound Celebrimbor's spirit to it. Could be wrong.

[–]FNWO1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I had a similar idea, maybe he's inside the ring and eventually you can bring him back out.

[–]BB_VenumIsengard 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you can see the lower part of his crown in the last few frames of the trailer.

[–]lowsun 231 ポイント232 ポイント  (32子コメント)

I don't care how lore unfriendly it was, Shadows of Mordor was super fun and this looks like it will be as well. Can't wait to play it.

[–]PostHumanous 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thoroughly enjoyed playing through Shadow of Mordor, but even ignoring all the non-canonical aspects, the story really dropped off towards the end of the game. Still hyped for Shadow of War though.

[–]lowsun 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I will absolutely give you the story lacking. Also, the ending is lame.

[–]Alagorn 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (12子コメント)

How does the lore work if you ignore this half wraith guy and just about the orcs? I heard they did the orcs very well even if the player character doesn't make sense.

While lotr is diverse you can't exactly make spin offs of a lot of it. I mean they could've tried doing some of the other stories into games or whatever but making something up doesn't work like it could feasibly be done in say Warcraft.

The Battle for Middle Earth rts may have delved into lore unfriendly but it's just a bit of fun and doesn't really matter in the same way a Lego game might condense things. For instance Boromir surviving the campaign, gandalf appearing at different battles etc.

[–]heff17 96 ポイント97 ポイント  (8子コメント)

A half human-half wraith walking into Mt. Doom and crafting a new Ring of Power is pretty much as against lore as you could do it.

[–]badastronaut7Gimli 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean if they're gonna throw lore out the window might as well go whole-hog. I suspect a large portion of the players won't know the difference anyway

[–]sakor88 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A half human-half wraith

who has been resurrected/returned from the dead with black magic.

[–]Alagorn 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I know I'm saying there has been and acceptable number of lore bending where it doesn't matter, but when the premise is lore breaking it probably ain't a good idea (not saying the actual game mechanics aren't good) but they could've gone for a more lorefriendly Aragorn the ranger game.

This felt a bit like them trying to do a Fantastic Beasts within the lotr universe.

[–]VesperalLightGimli 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Fantastic Beasts didn't disregard the lore though.

[–]Alagorn 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

No I mean they wanted their own similar thing, except JK wrote that whereas they definitely won't get anything from the Tolkien estate.

[–]VesperalLightGimli 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah right. It's a shame they can only use LOTR stuff.

[–]Artremis 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It also helps that Fantastic Beasts wasn't made 40 years after her death, so she was around to write for it.

[–]Uluithiad 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

How does the lore work if you ignore this half wraith guy and just about the orcs?

Well, Sauron took control of Mordor a thousand years before the game is set. He did this because all the guards had died or left a century or two before on account of depopulation from the Plague (which he likely almost certainly started). His servants just walked right in and took control of the empty land (because there weren't humans or random roming Dwarves around). And there weren't any Uruks at the time, since they were unveiled nearly 500 years later when he started pushing out from Mordor.

It's not that the character's the part that doesn't make sense, and the rest is decent. People point out the character not making sense because they don't have enough time or will of effort (because there is always extreme pushback of people demanding that they are wrong) to point out just how broken from the lore pretty much every single aspect of the game is.

[–]Spreddit_4_ME 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I like it because you know it's non-canon and the game establishes it's own lore as an offshoot of a universe that you're familiar with. The story is weak in my opinion but the game itself is so fun that I really don't care. It's one of my favorite games.

[–]BendrakeAragorn 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I wanted to like Shadows of Mordor so bad, like really really bad. I just found it way too repetitive.

[–]CloakedCrusader 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (10子コメント)

It was fun for the first half of the game.

[–]4rkless 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I enjoyed all of the game, but the final "boss fight" was such a let down.

Press a NOW

Press x NOW

Oh you fucked up? OK hold on.

Press x NOW

You just beat the last boss.

[–]CloakedCrusader 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Whoever invented quick time events is a sadistic, demonic, trickster who revels in the anguish, frustration, and boredom of gamers everywhere.

[–]DuranStar 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree most are done badly (including the ones referenced here). But there are some really good uses of it, God of War (most of the time) and Kingdom Hearts 2 are examples of it done really well.

[–]NobilisUltima 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

QTEs can be implemented in an inoffensive way. But boss fights, especially the final boss, should test the skills you've learned up until that point. The final boss of the DLC where you play as Celebrimbor was much, much better.

[–]GarrusAtreides 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

One of the DLCs adds a proper boss fight against Sauron which is far better than that, it's a shame that it wasn't included with the base game.

[–]derek589111Glorfindel 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's true but boss battles have always been "press at a certain time" battles. Dark souls for instance is like this. Im not saying it is a bad game nor am I saying it is easy, but each boss has its own "dance" if you will. You need need to defend or roll at certain times and you need to attack at certain times. Difference is how much the game babies you through it.

[–]4rkless 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have you played shadows? What you are saying isn't how it is. You don't do any combat, it's a cinematic and within the cinematic you press one button exactly when it tells you to. Go on YouTube and see for yourself

[–]Joshf1234 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

See I felt the opposite, by the end you had all the badass powers unlocked so you felt super strong, but not overpowered thanks to the Nemesis system constantly buffing the chieftains. Whereas at the beginning it felt like just another Assassin's Creed clone

[–]tokie__wan_kenobi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thought so too until I found out how to strategically play the second half, which was mind controlling all the bosses (but maybe you already knew that)

[–]CloakedCrusader 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was pretty much a war machine, so maybe I should do more mind control.

[–]CheezusCrust1337 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hope Shadow of War has difficulty settings.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just pretend it's an alternate reality in which Sauron does return to Mordor with a body due to the events of the first game. Making a once unmentionable character significant.

It's in the Lord of the Rings style but it's not the same universe and I'll never debate over it like I do with Tolkien's notes.

[–]ep1c00Fingolfin 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When someone realy made an acurate lore friendly lotr game it would be an actual wandering simulator

[–]SchrodingersWitcher 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looking at the description the serm to be expanding the Nemesis system to friends while also making possible to build your own Orc army. FUCKING HYPED.

[–]DrewBert324Witch-King of Angmar 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Alright. This isn't gonna be a lore-friendly game, but it looks awesome.

Also, Sauron, The Witch-King, and the Nazgul looks amazing.

[–]Radishattack015 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Plus the freaking balrog!!

[–]DrewBert324Witch-King of Angmar 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

IKR!

Reminds me of this picture of Gothmog.

[–]Pwnage5Melkor 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think it's safe to warrant a PSA here:

Shadow of War is not canon at all to LoTR; the only thing they have in common is that the game takes place in Middle Earth and share some of the characters name but that's about it in terms if canon. So take everything you're seeing in the trailer and game and disregard it in terms of canon.

[–]EdledhronFëanor 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

the only thing they have in common is that the game takes place in Middle Earth

They don't even have that in common.

[–]alphex 97 ポイント98 ポイント  (12子コメント)

So, its absolutely NOT canon from what I gather...
But you know what, if I get to fight a balrog, I'm ok with that.

[–]7V3NBeorn 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The first one wasn't either

[–]heff17 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The first one fit into the suspension of disbelief; far enough removed from solid detailed knowledge to have maybe subtly happened 'off-screen'. This one's only use of canon is to use a human-forged Ring of Power to add an 'n' and use it to shoot at everything we know LotR lore.

[–]Uluithiad 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not actually true. A brief glance through Appendix B, The Tale of Years, should be enough to tell you the first game could not have happened off-screen.

[–]Sora96Finrod Felagund 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not to mention that Celebrimbor was in the Halls of Mandos at the time, and most certainly not some wandering specter.

[–]Uluithiad 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, we suppose he is. Because everything we know about Celebrimbor is that he was a good person who was deceived and misguided in one thing, we can reasonably assume he heeded the call, after Sauron tortured him and hung him from a pole. It's a pretty safe assumption, but we do need to remember it's not a fact. Like all Elves, he had a right to refuse the summons. When there are so many blatant facts that SoM denies, we needn't focus on the things that are just almost certainly nonsense.

[–]Ezzeze 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (3子コメント)

This isn't like the Star Wars Franchise where Disney bought the rights and can do whatever they want with the canon, the Tolkien estate is pretty clear about what and who can use canon, this game is more like a licensing deal where they are allowed to use Middle Earth as a setting for their story. Totally non-canon.

[–]psychobilly1 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even then, you can't exactly talk down on Star Wars Canon regulations either. They have a collective story group that decides what is, and is not canon, much like the Tolkien Estate. Everything is run by them and they can request/demand changes for anything if it does not fit their vision.

[–]roaming111 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be honest, I would love more apocryphal games set in middle earth. I love middle earth as a setting. Now I want a game akin to the elder scrolls methodology of open world game design. Let me intricately interact with the work of middle earth.

[–]Jenckydoodle 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And they aren't claiming it to be canon at all.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If the developers last name isn't Tolkien then it's not cacnon. That doesn't mean it isn't fun.

[–]smach650 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's fanfiction, I just hope it's good fan fiction.

[–]mightier_mouse 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My dude, there is no more canon. The canon is set and can not really be extended.

[–]WalkingTargetGimli 112 ポイント113 ポイント  (47子コメント)

They did it. They really did it. They let somebody who doesn't understand Tengwar design this new Ring...

I took what I could see in the trailer (a good example is at 0:33) and recreated it in Word using the Tengwar Annatar typeface. The part I can make out is "redeem the and of Shadow. I re..." As in, they typed those English words into Word and then swapped to the Tengwar font. It's gibberish.

[–]Alagorn 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Doesn't surprise me. Contrary to popular opinion Lord of the Rings doesn't quite work as a franchise you can just whore out like Star Wars. I mean I imagine they care about the symbols of galactic basic more than Warner does with elvish, entish and the tongues of men.

[–]Extradaemon 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Contrary to popular opinion Lord of the Rings doesn't quite work as a franchise you can just whore out like Star Wars

If this game tanks because of an Tengwar error than you'd be right.

I imagine this game is going to sell like boatloads, because most people don't care.

[–]Alagorn 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know, but it'll just be a glorified fan fiction than an official game. I guess I don't care if they openly embrace non-canon. It can be it's own thing.

I tell you what, it's a bloody shame they did not just create a new IP. I think it would've been a lot more accepted and they would have greater freedom to flesh out their own world. I mean it's only a Middle Earth game because of the name, and I find it off-putting. They could easily have just changed a few things and then it can be a unique IP.

[–]Hoopdeedoodah 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Warner have actually been trying this approach to LOTR games for a while: just take a random period pre or during the War Of The Ring and plop out an action game to try and get some more of that fanboy dough. War In The North is one notable example of their fan-fiction fulled mediocrity, Guardians Of Middle Earth another.

It's just that their other games have tanked, whereas Shadow Of Mordor for some reason got GOTY awards left right and centre. I agree with you that its a poor fit for a franchise, and Warner don't even have the rights for all the most interesting stuff anyway: The Silmarillion is still locked up with the Tolkien estate, so they're stuck making games in the same seventy year period.

[–]heff17 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I dunno, I thought War in the North was actually rather good. It suffered from being far too short with a greatly rushed third act, but I didn't find it to be that poorly written.

[–]deaglebro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was about to say the same but then I realized I don't even remember what the story was about other than killing the guy who lived in the Borg fortress.

[–]Alagorn 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Guardians Of Middle Earth another.

I think Guardians works, outside of the execution, because you get games like Heroes of the Storm which has cross franchise characters fight each other. It's like those Marvel vs Capcom type fighters where it doesn't need to make sense.

[–]Maestermold 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The problem is that there's a greater percentage of purists in the LOTR fanbase than there is on the Star Wars fanbase, and developers ignore this fact. You can get away with it in Star Wars because a smaller percentage of people will complain.

[–]Alagorn 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

well yeah, and the fact that lord of the rings doesn't have all that much room in branching stuff out. For most of the world life was just as mundane as real life medieval/Anglo-Saxon England. In fact, I'd compare it to Game of Thrones because you can't really make a game out of that in the same way you could with Warcraft or Star Wars. It's like getting a game based on The Tudors, or any period drama.

[–]hett 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's impressively bad. I always find it enjoyable when a studio demonstrates particularly poor decision making abilities for some reason. Like, they're already making poorly written LOTR fan fiction and shitting all over the intricate lore for the sake of making video games, and then they do this.

[–]Maestermold 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, these games aren't really designed for LOTR purists. They know they're not making something for Tolkheads. They're making it for gamers.

I liked the first Shadow game, but I knew I had to suspend my LOTR fandom to enjoy it.

And yes, I completely agree that it's at least a little bit "capitalist scumbag" to take an established mythos and exploit it with no regard to the original in the interests of making money. But you can enjoy it if you keep the two separate in your mind.

[–]turunambartanen 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I can't make out anything. they didn't even use any vowels! And the circular text that shines blue when he hits the ring is completely different from what is on the ring.

https://www.tecendil.com/ was not able to regenerate the tengwar script in tengwar annatar.

[–]WalkingTargetGimli 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well, if you're going to write stuff using a "full" mode (like the Mode of Beleriand that was used on the door outside Moria or on the ithildin wall in the first game) there's not going to be a lot of diacritic marks (tehtar in-universe) since the vowels would have their own letters.

The text on the anvil is what's on the One Ring which makes sense as it's supposed to be the site where Sauron made it. The text on this new Ring would also make sense to be different as it's likely supposed to be specific to whatever Celebrimbor has in mind (some other "spell" worked into it or some such).

It doesn't surprise me that you're unable to get an online Tengwar generator to output the text on the Ring because such tools are, nominally, trying to guess what you're actually trying to say (and map keystrokes to the approximate sound/letter values). The actual computer font keybindings do no such thing and instead keep a layout similar to the Tengwar table found in the LotR appendix. Because it's not mapped to the standard QWERTY values, you can't just type something in English, change fonts, and expect things to work.

The text on this Ring is, approximately, "vfshffld myf chwsh whd zhychshwhbu s vf..." and it's no wonder that a transcriber would have trouble.

[–]turunambartanen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

  1. i know, but there are no beleriand mode vowels on the ring

  2. yes that makes some sense. but i think it does not relly fit to the animation.

  3. i hope you took a look at this online generator, it is quite good. and on this site the Tengwar Annatar typeface doesn't even have some of the tengwar on that are on the ring. this was mainly as a response to your comment that you were able to recreate the inscription

  4. i don't know what

    "redeem the and of Shadow. I re..."

and

"vfshffld myf chwsh whd zhychshwhbu s vf..."

have in common. and i also have no clue how you got either one of those.

edit: fu** formatting. i can't get it to work.

[–]WalkingTargetGimli 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tengwar Annatar is available as a computer font that you can download and install on your own machine for use in programs like Word, Photoshop, or anything else that uses that kind of font (like how Times New Roman, Courier, or Comic Sans are available by default).

The key-to-letter layout for that computer font is related to the layout in the LotR appendix instead of to the values printed on your keys. That is, the tengwa normally given the value of our letter 't' occurs when you press the 1 key, 'p' is on our q key, and so on. Here is a general key layout.

The text on the Ring as shown in the video, as far as I can make out, corresponds to pressing the keys "redeem the and of Shadow. i re" but those same characters, when sounded out in something like the normal English mode are approximately "vfshffld myf chwsh whd zhychshwhbu s vf...".

Other Tengwar modes might differ somewhat, but not in any major way.

[–]the-real-broMinas Tirith 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

what is tengwar?

[–]WalkingTargetGimli 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The "Elvish" writing system invented by Tolkien and used, for example, on the One Ring or the Door to Moria.

It's not just there to look pretty. It's an actual alphabet that can be read like any other once you learn it. The people who made the Ring in this trailer did not bother to learn it and messed it up.

[–]the-real-broMinas Tirith 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The people who made the Ring in this trailer did not bother to learn it

that doesnt surprise me in the slightest.

[–]WalkingTargetGimli 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a little disheartening considering that they used it right in the first game.

[–]turunambartanen 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

it is important to note though that the writing system is just a writing system and can be used to transcribe any language. most famous is the transcription of the first article of the human rights agreement ("all human beings are equal..."). it is kind of the lorem ipsum for tengwar.

tenwar has kind of three different modes in itself. you have different modes for quenya, sindarin and the beleriand mode. which mainly differ in where and how to place the vowels.

that being said, the insciption on the one ring is indeed tengwar, but is a transcription of the black speech of mordor and not elvish. the inscription on the door to moria is in the beleriand mode.

[–]turunambartanen 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

/r/tengwar if you are interested.

/r/quenya for the one language,

/r/sindarin for the other language.

[–]doey13Fire-Drake 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Only a small minority of nit pickers will notice this anyway, it's not a huge deal

[–]Bismarckian 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pointing out major inconsistencies in the plot compared to the source material isn't nitpicking.

[–]SartorResartus_Elf-Friend 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I think you underestimate how many people are nit-pickers.

[–]lil-hazza 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not a big deal but it shows the inattention to detail that is present in great games.

[–]chachabinks 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I feel the need for more LotR games that fit within the canon. It can be done: Conquest was an awesome game. Too often, developers feel the need to take liberties designing a new aspect or history to Middle Earth when there's already SO much to work with.

[–]Ghidoran 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It can be done but I'd rather developers not restrict their gameplay based on a desire to stick to the lore. I mean the first game had you mind-controlling orcs and teleporting to enemies by shooting arrows at them. I'm not sure how 'lore-friendly' that is but I sure as hell am glad it was included.

[–]castlecrasher2 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, devs should totally go after what's fun. The first game was a blast for the most part and I'm looking forward to seeing gameplay on this one

[–]chachabinks 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is worth noting that I didn't like the first game either. I don't know, there just haven't been a lot of games that really captured the spirit of Tolkien's world.

[–]Nihil94Fingolfin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ehhh, I'd say Conquest had the potential to be an awesome game (I still love it btw). Now Battle for Middle Earth, the turn based LotR game on the Game Boy Advance, the cinematic Two Towers and Return of the King games, and The Third Age, those were awesome.

But I would love Conquest to get a sequel.

[–]mightier_mouse 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Amen, the last games I enjoyed were The Two Towers and Return of the King on PS2. They stretched the story a little bit, but they weren't as out there as this. As a tolkien fan, I can't see myself enjoying this game.

[–]mirkwoodfalconDol Guldur 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (92子コメント)

Absolutely incredible!! Looking forward to this one, hoping they'll show off the game at PAX East?

I wonder what the city at the beginning is; I'm thinking perhaps Minas Ithil before it became Minas Morgul, judging by the tower and how it looks similar to the tower shown later in the video in Minas Morgul. Either that or it's Ost-in-Edhil, the city of Eregion.

Also, who do you think the dark-haired girl is that provides the narration?

And that balrog looks amazing. Hoping for an epic boss fight there.

[–]Baramesees 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (91子コメント)

As cool as all of this is, I hope it isn't canon

[–]mirkwoodfalconDol Guldur 63 ポイント64 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trust me, just like the first one, it most definitely is not haha. :)

[–]ToriborDwarf 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, we just have to take what we get I think. In Shadow of Mordor he uses glowing blue magic to make orc heads explode. Pretty sure that wasn't the type of subtle magic that Tolkien envisioned...

[–]Arkenskjold 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (87子コメント)

If this was canon, there wouldn't be a token black guy.

[–]Arkadii 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (22子コメント)

I wonder why /u/Arkenskjold is so upset about there being a black guy in Lord of the Rings.

Comment history:

"Fuck Muslims, yeah. Islam must be wiped off the face of this earth, it's a barbaric, violent and expansionistic ideology."

"Nigger faggot confirmed"

Okay...

[–]Baramesees 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (63子コメント)

The near Harad of the south I think have darker skin.

[–]Arkenskjold 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (61子コメント)

Exactly. The Haradrim and Easterlings were more like Arabs, and the groups living even further east were said to be even darker. Why the hell is one of the Gondorian citadel guards black? :D This honestly bothers me, because it doesn't make sense at all.

[–]Baramesees 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (60子コメント)

Their throwing a pretty big net to get interesting characters, either that or they think that people will get offended, probably the latter.

[–]Arkenskjold 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (59子コメント)

It's clear that they don't want to offend people, so they include a token black character. Pretty fucking stupid since there are no black people in Gondor.

[–]p1rke 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe a traveler who stayed there or some soldier came back with a son from the east. Whatever, I like things like these if they have a good backstory. If it's just token, it's useless.

[–]Arkenskjold 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hopefully there's an explanation.

[–]GarrusAtreides 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (48子コメント)

There's nothing in the books explicitly saying "there are no black people in Gondor, none at all ", so it's not all that far fetched.

[–]Arkenskjold 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (47子コメント)

Actually, Tolkien describes the different races with extreme detail. The men of Gondor are mostly the descendants of the house of Beor, those guys look kind of like Aragorn and are said to most resemble the Noldor in terms of appearance. They have dark hair, pale skin and are stoutly built. Then there's the men of Hador's house whose descendants are the Rohirrim, for example. They are fair, have blonde hair and blue eyes. They are said to resemble the Vanyar of the elves. The men of the east are also described in extreme detail. Same thing with the races in Silmarillion.

[–]GarrusAtreides 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (34子コメント)

You said it yourself, "mostly". Just because most men in Gondor descend from Númenor that doesn't mean every single one of them does. Since LotR doesn't have a detailed Gondor ethnicity census among its appendices, there's enough room for a single black guy to sort of squeak by =P

Besides, given all the lore-breaking nonsense they are putting in the game, a black guy in Gondor is a bit like a leaky faucet in the Titanic.

[–]Arkadii -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

People also immigrate and groups move around. Scandinavia is predominately white, but that wouldn't make it "pretty fucking stupid" to have a black character there.

Also, with all of the other lore issues, the thing you're going to be upset by as "too far" is there being a black guy in Gondor?

[–]mightier_mouse 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There isn't any new canon for LotR, and there won't ever be.

[–]Phyrexian_ArchlegionAncalagon the Black 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy shit

[–]hanburgundy 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm just a little bummed that it's set exclusively in Mordor, again. Middle Earth has so much more variety than Mordor's hellscape.

[–]PeerlessAnacondaMan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

However, It does look like you'll get to visit some of the more unique settings of mordor such as Minas Morgul.

[–]eccentricrealist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe they'll even extend it to Osgiliath

[–]Leftys-WheelchairThe Shire 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Before watching the trailer I read the comments about it being painfully inaccurate to the lore...

But holy shit did that look incredible. I'm honestly reconsidering trying the first game again and forcing myself to get over the thoughts of it basically being fanfiction.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Screw the people who says it has to be lore friendly. It's an extension of Tolkien's creation, not Tolkien himself. Unless he comes back from the grave and writes a new book nothing created after his death is cannon.

[–]FunInStalingrad 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's the point. People are bothered that it's a loose extension. For these people (me included) imagery is not as important in LotR as history, ideas and the feel of the books. Imagery is the only thing connecting these games to Tolkien. It's cool to like it. And there will always be a bit of elitism to Tolkien fans.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm a huge Tolkien fan but like you I see this as imagery. Everything in the game isn't related at all to the lore. I mean, don't get me wrong I would love a lore friendly game but because of the way the industry works it'd probably just butcher the actual story. I think it's safer to make a game like LoTR:SoW because you are just borrowing elements instead of trying to accurately portray something that isn't your own.

[–]FunInStalingrad 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And some fear that with the absence of very lore friendly games, LotR might get perverted in pop culture and become solely about violence and battles. Silly fanfics are good, as long as people understand that they're just that. Now, I don't know how many players take these games seriously, and that's why I might fear its influence.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think it has a big enough fan base. For something to become pop-culture it needs to address a much larger audience. Take the movies for example. It was several awards and had a large audience so it gained traction and became pop culture. These games don't have that same traction and since they have a limited audience they won't gain any.

It can't do any lore damage than The Hobbit movies have already done.

[–]BrinkBreaker 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's like saying that the starwars EU before Disney bought it isn't worth anything because it isn't canon. Complete bull. I still think kotor and jedi knight academy are still the best starwars games imo. And the yuuzon vong were some of the greatest story arcs in starwars. I'm really sorry excited to see more, if different, lotr at this caliber regardless of if it is canon.

[–]BR0GETA 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm just happy to get back into middle earth and fighting orcs

[–]hispanic_hipsterLothlórien 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (5子コメント)

This looks fucking EPIC! And to the rest saying "Oh but this isn't cannon, oh but the lore is butchered up" please relax, we already know that. It doesn't take away that the game if done as the first will be fantastic!

[–]deaglebro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

It does muddy the waters. It's sad that Tolkien's philosophy has been reduced to a beat-em-up game.

[–]mht03110 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think Tolkien intended to convey any specific philosophy in his work. You could interpret themes in his texts, but the implication of overarching philosophy seems to be a reach.

“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

[–]deaglebro 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Philosophical works do not have the requirement of allegory. The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion were primarily about death and deathlessness. I mean the reason why Christopher Tolkien detests the films is because they pander to 15-25 year old range, and hollow out the philosophical themes of the work. And the quote you have is not in The Fellowship of the Ring, but is in a BBC documentary they did with him.

[–]mht03110 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't have my copy of the text on hand, but I believe that the quote is pulled from the forward of The Fellowship of the Ring. As for the philosophical work of the books, I'm not denying that they are philosophical. I'm simply denying that the setting of Tolkien's world has a philosophical requirement for its use. This game is not an adaptation of The Silmarillion or of The Lord of The Rings. It is a self contained story that utilizes the setting and a unique development of the worlds lore. If it was an adaptation of either of those, it'd be a crime to ignore and fabricate the lore as it has.

[–]deaglebro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

but the implication of overarching philosophy seems to be a reach

I'm not denying that they are philosophical

Face it, any fan fiction of Tolkien's work is an abomination.

unique development of the worlds lore

Another way of saying that it bastardizes it.

Tolkien is rolling in his grave. He is rolling so hard that I'm beginning to feel tremors in the earth.

[–]Abmatt14Númenor 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

anyone know if this is PS4 exclusive?? really hope not loved Shadow

[–]Walthatron 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, target had a listing for the Xbox one and pc version as well yesterday

edit: just confirmed as a xbox play anywhere title

[–]mentally_vexed 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you, that's great news.

[–]SchrodingersWitcher 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

both consoles, also its a Play Anywhere title.

[–]fede812 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wooaaahh this came out of no where! I actually really liked the first game and this is exciting:D

[–]Caelum_au_Cylus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

WE WUZ GONDORIANZ N SHIET

[–]xxmindtrickxxEärendil 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have no idea when this is set or where (alternate universe?). However...

As someone who considers themselves to be a pretty big lotr fan, I've never in my life seen a more fan servicey bullshit trailer. Christopher Tolkien would have a heart attack watching that trailer.

That being said a good game is a good game, and if that's what they made I'll likely enjoy it, while making fun of its ridiculous lore.

Just a few things that made me cringe, a human and an elf (name drop Celebrimbor) are forging a ring in the heart of Mordor without Sauron or Nazgul knowledge, uh what.

If Celebrimbor could create rings more powerful than the one ring why not make that when he made the 3 rings of power after Sauron's initial deceit.

A balrog - actually not as ridiculous as you think consider Maia can reform after gathering strength. It would just be nice if they mention that considering Durin's Bane was the last living balrog iirc.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not meant to be an adaption or an addition to Tolkien's world. It simply borrows the greatness that Tolkien was and portrays it in a way not meant to be intergraded into Tolkien's creation.

Treat is as it's own thing. Not as an addition to the stories we know and love.

[–]EAMike212 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

All the people in the comments shouting "but muh lore" please remember that just because this game gets released, does not mean the books are also going to get republished with Talion being copied into them.

[–]deaglebro 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People think Dracula is dumb because of Twilight.

[–]ianodon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't really mind if game producers play around with Tolkien's world, but it saddens me that they aren't taking full advantage of his work. There are plenty of stories in the Silmarillion that would make for amazing games, but I guess throwing random parts of the movie together (half man half wraith??) is more profitable.

[–]provaut 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

tolkien is turning in his grave

[–]Walthatron 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

More like Sauron and the death eaters

[–]MuzenCab 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm glad they are putting a twist to Tolkiens work because it brings light to a fantastic and original universe.

[–]Elaxor 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You mean profiting on Tolkien's name with non-canon mediocre plot.

[–]Hageshii01 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There's a time to be concerned about whether something is canon or not. A video game does not have to be one of them. As long as the gameplay is enjoyable and the plot is serviceable it doesn't matter.

To put it another way, if you're a lore junky and you only care about the things that Tolkien wrote, then yeah you're not going to like this. But this game isn't, and shouldn't be, making individuals such as yourself the target audience. To me, that'd be like hating the KOTOR games because they aren't canon for Star Wars; the canon state of a video game should have no bearing on the enjoyment of that video game.

[–]Elaxor 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I won't complain if they admit their lack of originality and call this alternative universe, because it can't be a spin-off in any way.

[–]mightier_mouse 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The difference is, to my knowledge, the KOTOR games don't fly in the face of the existing Star Wars canon.

[–]Nejkulatoulinkatejsi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tolkien's world doesn't need anime garbage. It is perfect as it is.

[–]sizillyd 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The first game was absolutely amazing. This sequel looks so well done. Can't wait to play.

[–]HelghastFromHelghan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

This is probably going to be a very stupid question, but as someone who has only seen the movies and doesn't know much about the background lore I'm just going to ask it:

This "Ring of Power" they made in the trailer, is this one of the 20 (I believe?) rings that were "created" by Tolkien? Or is this a brand new and additional ring of power that is created by the developers of this game?

Again, sorry if this is a stupid question but this has been confusing me ever since I saw the trailer.

EDIT: thank you for all your answers, it's much appreciated!

[–]RedWingMYWÉomer 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, this game, much like the last, takes the very basic bones of the LotR universe and constructs it's own story. This ring is not one of the original 18, nor did it ever exist. This game will look good, probably play well, but should never be considered a reliable source of information for LotR.

[–]Enderkr 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This ring is not one of the original 18

Twenty, right? 9 for men doomed to die, 7 for the dwarf lords in their halls of stone, 3 for the Elves, and the One Ring forged by Sauron.

[–]RedWingMYWÉomer 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're absolutely right. For some reason I had it in my head that the dwarves had 5 rings. Guess it's time for my annual reread .-.

[–]Uluithiad 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

this game, much like the last, takes breaks the very basic bones of the LotR universe and constructs it's own story

This is much more of an Edgar Suit situation.

[–]RedWingMYWÉomer 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, it seems so.

I'm torn as a gamer who thinks this game which looks so damn fun and as a fan of Tolkien's work. Perhaps I'm being snooty, but my initial feeling besides the impression of fun is that this is blasphemous in a way. Like there is no way Tolkien would have ever sanctioned this masturbatory Hollywood deviation.

[–]Uluithiad 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't feel torn. You can like the game. There's very few people saying that you should feel bad for liking the game, or playing the game. There are some, of course, but when are there ever not people to stand behind any polemical nonsense?

Hell, I own the first game, and to anyone who hangs around this subreddit much, that might come as a huge shock. Haven't played it yet. The plan is to get super fucking drunk with some friends and see if I can juggle not passing out, complaining about inaccuracies (in an entertaining manner), and not failing game mechanics all in one. That's how I find the balance.

But there's a segment, quite substantial in number, of people who play the game and insist that the lore is fine. Most of it is because they don't know what they are talking about. I saw somebody in one of the gaming subreddits yesterday saying that 'Caragors' were used because Monolith didn't have rights to 'wargs', and that's a giant piece of bullshit nonsense. Some of it is more sociopathic, telling people they shouldn't complain about it because the individual themself doesn't find anything wrong with it, or is enjoying the game. Basically, the idea that they are the only one who gets to have an opinion based in any part on emotions and everyone else can go suck eggs.

You don't need to feel torn. You just need, like in all things, to not be a solipsist or a raging hypocrite. I also find it helps to laugh at the solipsists and raging hypocrites, but that might just be me.

[–]bacon_catz_karma 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

From what I can gather it's a brand new ring, though the only info about it is from this trailer

[–]gtpm28 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was mentioned in the previous game - it's an entirely new ring, made by Celebrimbor's (the maker of the original rings) wraith and Talion to challenge Sauron.

[–]Mattski140 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is all non-canon, so the ring they made in the trailer is not one of the ones Sauron helped make. Like others have said, think of this game as a fan fiction.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No stupid questions my friend! The game has nothing to do with the actual lore. It's borrows many aspects but is entirely unrelated. I like to treat it as an alternate reality from the world Tolkien gave us.

[–]PixelProofInc 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The one in the trailer is a completely new one made by the developers. Because of this, I don't think that the game is cannon

[–]StigwaMelkor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a brand new one. In the books there are mentioned 20 rings, and there is no particular doubt regarding when they were made or what became of them. This one that's made in the trailer is a fictional (heh) one.

[–]Sundance91 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is nothing in the original lore about this ring being created.

[–]doey13Fire-Drake 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes there were 20 rings

Yes this is made by the developers and as almost EVERYONE has pointed out it's not cannon

[–]mightier_mouse 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It seems your question has already been answered, but I just want to encourage you: read the books! They are well worth your time.

[–]MDeeMC 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Black Gondorian. Ok.

[–]sakor88 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

With all the stuff that contradicts the lore, THIS is the one you start whining about?

[–]StigwaMelkor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

So?

[–]provaut 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (9子コメント)

a black gondrian is like a white zulu warrior. i really understand that "tolerance" and stuff is big right now but forcing it into everything will only make people dislike it.

[–]MusicMan5000 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Part of me was hoping this would be about Dagor Dagorath. How cool would that have been?

[–]PurelySC 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Thankfully, they don't have the rights to anything other than The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Is Celebrimbor mentioned in LoTR? I can't remember him being mentioned besides a bit in the Sil.

[–]SirRobinTheBrave92 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think when they get to the Moria hidden gate the name Celebrimbor is mentioned. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain

[–]sakor88 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is Orocarni mountain range mentioned in LotR or Hobbit? I guess not.

[–]PurelySC 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Then all listend while Elrond in his clear voice spoke of Sauron and the Rings of Power, and their forging in the Second Age of the world long ago. A part of his tale was known to some there, but the full tale to none, and many eyes were turned to Elrond in fear and wonder as he told of the Elven-smiths of Eregion and their friendship with Moria, and their eagerness for knowledge, by which Sauron ensnared them. For in that time he was not yet evil to behold, and they received his aid and grew mighty in craft, whereas he learned all their secrets, and betrayed them, and forged secretly in the Mountain of Fire the One Ring to be their master. But Celebrimbor was aware of him, and hid the Three which he had made; and there was war, and the land was laid waste, and the gate of Moria shut.

-The Council of Elrond

"What does the writing say?" asked Frodo, who was trying to decipher the insciption on the arch. "I thought I knew the elf-letters, but I cannot read these."

"The words are in the Elven-Tongue of the west of Middle-earth in the Elder Days," answered Gandalf. "But they do not say anything of importance to us. They say only: The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak, friend, and enter. And underneat small and faint is written: I, Narvi, made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs.

-A Journey in the Dark

Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains, and near to the West-gate of Moria. This they did because they learned that Mithril had been discovered in Moria. The Noldor were great craftsmen and less unfriendly to the Dwarves than the Sindar; but the friendship that grew up between the people of Durin and the Elven-smiths of Eregion was the closest that there has ever been between the two races. Celebrimbor was Lord of Eregion and the greatest of their craftsmen; he was descended from Feanor.

-Appendix B: The Tale of Years

And then another set of lines, from the chronology of the Second Age to be found in the same Appendix.

c. 1500: The Elven Smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of theirskill. They begin forging the Rings of Power.

c. 1590 The Three Rings are completed in Eregion.

c. 1600 Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-Dur. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron.

1693 War of the Elves and Sauron begins. The Three Rings are hidden

1695 Sauron's forces invade Eriador. Gil-Galad sends Elrond to Eregion.

1697 Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. The gates of Moria are shut. Elrond retreats with remnant of the Noldor and founds the refuge of Imladris.

-Appendix B: The Tale of Years

[–]doncan94Barad-Dûr 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I loved SoM and this trailer looks awesome!

Only little downer for me:
I still prefer the look and design of the Jackson Trilogy and would love to see a LotR game with it.

[–]mirkwoodfalconDol Guldur 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looks like they went with the Jackson-vision of the Balrog

[–]PeerlessAnacondaMan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So what's up either this new ring, that isn't canon right?

[–]crazyg0od33 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

FYI for my US friends, there is a $300 "Mithril Edition" with an awesome statue exclusive to gamestop

BUT - it ships internationally from Amazon UK, and after conversion comes to $235 if you choose the express shipping ($218 if you choose regular shipping).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01LTIBIWU/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[–]gizmo_014 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Again, sorry if this is made by the developers.

[–]ndaughenbaughTulkas 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

please be open world, please be open world, please be open world

[–]gnsman 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The first one was open world and this one is open world.

[–]doey13Fire-Drake 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ohhh, that was to back up my arguememt for a full fledged Middle Earth game that includes every little detail and stay true to the lore, which SOM did not do but never the less it is still an amazing game

[–]Swervedline 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am so ready for this game! After hearing about the leaks finally got around to getting it platinum.

[–]FredrickVonAckermann 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So excited right now!

[–]Wanmei_Shijiie -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Looks just as retarded as the previous one, an insult to Lord of the Rings and Tolkien himself.

[–]doey13Fire-Drake 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Get over it.....

[–]Wanmei_Shijiie -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is why such trash exists because there are people with no standards whatsoever who spread their legs on every STD dick that comes their way.

[–]Matthew_McHiniNini 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As long as people don't accept it as a legitimate entity then there's no harm. I know Tolkien was very critical of his work and how it was represented but this isn't LoTR, this isn't The Hobbit, this is not related to Turin and friends, it's simply not an adaptation of his work. This is not something he created then changed such as Peter Jackson's The Hobbit. This is simply a fan fiction with traction. IMO is a fun game and I'm happy to accept any new fan fiction but it will never be lore or part of Tolkien. It simply borrows from Tolkien to create something new. Which I think any author, artist, or creator can respect.

[–]pizzathehut333 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looks fucking awesome

[–]KimmyKooo -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Random black guy

[–]N8c2c 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lore or no lore, as someone who loved SOM on ps3 i cannot freaking WAIT to play this on ps4!