Welp, scratch that. I've come down with a really bad cold and can't sit up for long periods of time. :( I'll get it done and posted as soon as I'm able.
Today's the 1st programming insight update, right? That sounds neat. I'm not s programmer so I have no idea what to expect, but backstage looks into stuff are always cool.
Welp, scratch that, work and name change stuff ate a full day, today is going to be crazy-busy as well, and in retrospect, I just realized I hadn't been able to work on the game this whole past week, so I'm being smart about this and pushing the schedule back just one week. Danielle log will be up on Saturday, schedule is otherwise inched over one week in turn.
Victoria: Yes, I had an out-of-town friend I never get to see move here this weekend and it was also in the heat of Preview Guide, so it will be up tomorrow morning instead. ^^; This doesn't change the schedule otherwise, except that Randy's character log will probably be Sunday instead of Saturday.
Just wanted to say as a random backer, we're with you JO. I (like most people I'm sure) am excited about getting the game, but I know life can be messy. Hoping for a better 2017 for all of us!
YAY! AN UPDATE~~~~ XDDDDDD I'm so happy to hear you're alive and hopefully well? I haven't forgotten nor have I lost interest in the game, just waiting patiently and supporting from the sidelines, ^ ^
(Addendum: serious personal issues came up yesterday unexpectedly, so I have to compose the update for tomorrow morning instead. I really can't catch a break these days...)
Well, what's going on with the project? Here's the problem that honesty creators need to actually own up on and just admit they're at fault and apologize and move forward:
MAKE UPDATES AND STOP BEING RADIO SILENT
That's all we ask. I was reading the last update 27 and didn't realize until I was reading the comments that it was from 2015. We're almost in 2017 with more than an entire year without an actual update. The fact there has only been updates through the comments because of the typical reactions from backers because creators vanish without a trace is to be expected.
@Brenda: I have never once used the word "persecution" for delays on the project and the understandable criticism of those delays. Trust me, you are definitely the posterchild example for my inability to give refunds and remove backers from the project despite my best efforts. I have *absolutely* tried over and over to get you refunded and removed specifically, like you and I both want. Unfortunately, Kickstarter's break from Amazon Payments and non-communicative support ticket system has made in-system refunding for this project next to impossible for the time being. When I figure out a workaround for this, I will definitely let you know, but the project is still being completed, albeit very slowly because it's being created by such a small crew, in many cases just me. Many visual novels and indie games have taken this long or longer to be completed with minimal updates, and it's not ideal, but it does happen sometimes.
@Lauren Thank you for voicing your concerns, and I deeply apologize once again for the lack of communication. I will definitely have an update with new material done before Christmas. Thank you, and I hope this eases your concerns somewhat. :)
@Lauren Sullivan
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You are never getting your money back. Even if you demand a refund and this project goes nearly a year without a single update. Chapman will just cry "persecution" and continue ignoring you and this project. Trust me on this.
Jacob... it's almost been a year since the day one beta. I know life gets crazy but if there's nothing by Christmas (new screenshots, new voice teases, literally anything... even the pango dango tumblr is dead silent) I'll have to rescind my pledge :( I really hope I won't have to but this silence is starting to get to me.
Hi Jacob! I hope everything is going okay! I follow you on twitter too and know you have a heck of a lot on your plate but if you have a quick second it would be great to have an update! Its coming up on a year since the last official update on the main page and I'm sure many of us would love to hear how things are going or get even a vague timeline. I hope you are still interested in completing the project since I'm still very excited about it, but if you are not or you don't see yourself being able to update us in the next few months with anything new I would hope you would let us all know. Thank you and I wish you the best!
I'm sorry to hear the refund process for this site is so messed up. But, as I have said many times before, I would have been more understanding (and would not have left those previous angry comments) if you had just taken the time to let us all know what the hell is going on with the project and/or the refund process. The only reason things got this bad is because you refuse to communicate with us when we ask for an update politely. You only make an appearance and explain yourself AFTER the shit hits the fan. This is a bad habit that needs to stop
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Believe it or not, I would be willing to take back my refund request and continue backing this project if you just made a commitment to update this page on a somewhat regular basis (and actually STUCK to that commitment). Even if the update schedule was merely a "still workin' on it" message every two months. If you can't commit to something as simple as that; I don't see how you'd be capable of delivering the finished game any time in the near future.
Hi there. So apart from the refund issue (hope that's been resolved!), has there been any progress on the game itself? It's alright if there hasn't been, just checking in and hoping for an update. Thanks!
Thank you for the update Jacob! Sending good vibrations your way. Glad to hear some feedback, and best of luck to you and the project moving forward :)
Thanks for the update! Glad to hear the game's still coming along, and I'm sorry to hear that it's been a tough year. Hope everything's going better for you now.
Okay, here's the full skinny on what's going on with refunds. I hadn't gotten around to writing it all out yet because, well, it's depressing and not pretty and the process of posting about the situation scares the shit out of me to be honest. But here's what's going on.
I've been trying to get Brenda refunded since last April, to give you an idea of how surprisingly hellish the process has been. While Kickstarter projects that are started now have a handy and easy-to-process refund system, one button-click away, Lovely Little Thieves was started back when KS was using Amazon Payments as a middleman for processing payments. When I sent a support ticket to Kickstarter asking what I need to do, they told me I would have to take it to Amazon Payments, that they had no authority over it. To process a refund through Amazon Payments, you have to use the merchant account they give you, except this merchant account kept ghosting on me whenever I tried to log in and access any information or processes. It took me forever to get in and just get a transaction ID for Brenda's payment out of a giant Excel file. After that, my only option was to call Amazon Payments directly and try to get someone on the phone who even seemed to know that they used to deal with Kickstarter payments. The first several people I got on the phone every time I called inevitably had no idea what I was talking about so I kept getting transferred.
I say "each time I called," because I called three times, three days in a row, and spent about an hour on the phone every time. Every time, they could not solve my problem. Most of the time, they couldn't find the transaction ID at all. On the third hour of the third call on the third day (yes I realize how ironic this is considering the plot of LLT), I was finally in contact with someone familiar enough with the system to tell me what was going on, because they finally located the transaction ID. The number and history "exists," but that's about it, there's no actionable refund they can issue from their system because however the accounting broke down in Amazon Payments's split from Kickstarter, it didn't attribute that monetary record to them or something (???), and they don't have any connection to Kickstarter to take the backer off the project (which is something I need to be able to do in order to offer refunds, since the project is successful and still in development.)
So I sent another support ticket in to Kickstarter attempting to explain all this, and got another response saying to take it up with Amazon Payments (that clearly didn't seem to understand the context of my message saying they were unable to help). At this point, I was pretty exhausted with the whole process and unsure of what to do. So that's all I know about refunds right now. I (think?) I finally have the time and mental energy to try and tackle this dilemma again this weekend, but it's not as easy as just "sending money back thru Paypal," because that could put me in a liable position when it comes to the ability to remove backers from the project along with refunding their money.
The project is still going forward, albeit slowly thanks to the nature of this project as a largely one-man effort in a year that has been a *lot* of emotional exhaustion and unexpected upheavals for one man to take. I'm a fairly private person these days, so I don't talk about it much, but I've been through a lot in the past year and a half that has taken large chunks of time and energy out of my life in every possible regard, especially when it comes to this project, which breaks my heart because of course I've been wanting to share this final story for almost two years at this point. The wait is extremely painful for me as well, but some days, it's all I can do to take care of myself in more immediate ways. Thank you again to all the backers for their patience and support, and I promise that the final story of LLT will be worth all the setbacks, and I'm deeply sorry that it won't arrive as quickly as either of us ever wanted.
Honestly, I'm starting to feel the same, though I haven't lost total faith yet. Jacob, maybe you can post some backer-exclusive voice teasers to let us know that you're on track in other areas since voice recording should be under way? Something from content that we haven't seen yet to give us a hint of where the story is going? That way you wouldn't have to release a demo you don't feel is complete but would also let us know you're on track with parts of the project that don't involve coding.
Still no response or update? I've been checking the comments to see if there is any reply but still none. I'm losing trust in even getting the game released next year. I'm patient with waiting for kickstarter games but at least other developers update us. As much as I'd like to play this game, I'm just disappointed with how this is handled. I'd like my money back. How can I get a refund? If this game gets finished, I'll just purchase it with its selling price. �
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""And if you find months-long radio silence automatically suspicious enough to toss out accusations of scamming to anyone who runs a project, that's not on them, that's on you.""
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The radio silence would not have bothered me if you hadn't said this last year....
"" It's my fault for being uncommunicative about the delays, reason being that I don't want to update backers with things they already know (it's not done yet) when I don't have other material I can show them (except lines of code and spoiler-y images and text, I guess?) I'm genuinely sorry. I haven't done as good a job as I should have with keeping backers in the loop, ""
You apologized to your backers and promised to be better about keeping folks in the loop. And then, when I called you out on failing to keep the promise YOU made, you got indignant and threw a fit. That is both childish and unprofessional.
If it was your intention all along to ignore this page and refuse to provide updates even after deadlines had LONG passed, than you should have been honest about that last year instead of delivering an insincere apology and making a promise you clearly had no intention of keeping.
Also, I really don't see how asking for some regular update schedule (whether it be once a month, once every two months, or whatever would have worked for you) is such an unreasonable demand that you’re getting upset about it. It would literally take you five seconds to write a "still working on it" post on the update section of this kickstarter. And it baffles me how you think I'm an unreasonable monster for asking you to do that.
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""Most of the tiny-dev-team game projects I've backed have months of radio silence, because delays happen, ""
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I haven't seen it in any projects I've backed thus far. But then again, up until now I've only backed professional people who gave a damn about keeping backers informed when delays happened.
Again, I ask you, if radio silence was what you planned to do all along, then why did you promise the exact opposite last year when backers said it made them nervous? It’s not the delays that bothered me; it’s the fact that you went back on the promise you made (and got butthurt when I called you out on it)
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“”That's all I can tell you, and since you are no longer part of the project, I would really appreciate it if you stopped adding heaps of stress to my day whenever you post.””
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Until I get that refund, I’m still part of this project. And I think it’s childish for you to play the victim when called out on unprofessional behavior. You need to be willing to take criticism when you’re taking other people’s money for a project. If you can’t handle that, than you shouldn’t have resorted to crowd-funding to get money for your indie game.
Any update at all would be appreciated. I know you are super busy and have a life, thats okay. I think we're a bit anxious about the lack of news, seems like we're in the same boat we were in last year... I know this game will be great when it comes out, but the amount of pushed back release dates and general quietness is always worrying when supporting a kickstarter. I'm hoping we'll hear from you soon, and wish you the best.
Hi! Just curious on the status of the progress of the game. Last update I think was from last year. I hope the game dev isn't dropped without us knowing.
Yeah, once again, it would be nice to get some updates. I'm really starting to lose faith in the project, and am beginning to consider finding some way to get my money back. I sincerely hope things work out for you, but I'm slowly losing all the faith I had in this.
I haven't been checking in with the project since the last update. I'm not really bothered by the delays and am happy to be a backer. I actually haven't fully explored the partial Day 1 beta yet and am still pretty excited about the game. Good luck with everything Jacob.
Hello! Just wanted to let you know not everyone freaks out at radio silence, and have the brain power to check up on the project using social media. I never felt like you were trying to scam anyone out of their money, especially if you so easily give refunds. I find it interesting that people throw around $20,000 like they donated all of it, but they don't speak for me or the amount I donated. I trust you'll finish when you finish, and give us updates when there's something to actually mention.
Hi! Things are going well, I've been able to resume work on coding Day 1 as of this past week and a half. (Time before that was taken up with my primary work duties.) My current goal is to get a new content release ready before Anime Expo (in the first weekend of July.) That's not a promise by any means, I'll really have to push to make that possible, but it's what I'm striving for right now. :)
Hey Jacob... wondering if we could get an update. You did say early Q2... are we still on track for Q2 at all? I know you're probably busy with plenty of other things, but it would be good to get a revised schedule (or at least a push back of the day 2 beta)
Still believing in this project and looking forward to playing it.
Hello Hope Chapman, hope you're doing fine! I cannot wait for the finished project! Take your time and do not listen to those who feel the need to hassle you, the game will be done when it is done. Hope you have a lovely weekend.
I was notified of your comments through a concerned message from another backer, who was also bothered by the virulence of your comments. I get notifications when people message me directly, but not when they comment on the page. I promise I'm not just sitting around checking the page and ignoring questions, but I have turned on e-mail notifications for new comments as of today, so maybe that will help fix that problem.
And if you find months-long radio silence automatically suspicious enough to toss out accusations of scamming to anyone who runs a project, that's not on them, that's on you. Most of the tiny-dev-team game projects I've backed have months of radio silence, because delays happen, especially on tiny indie projects, and these groups don't have anyone in charge of PR to devote extra time to just addressing feedback and posting updates. In my case, the writer, director, and main programmer are all the same person. It's not an "excuse" for months of radio silence, but I can say that apart from pages of unfinished code, there's nothing I can show you, so time can get away from me as I try to balance everything. Many project leads on games and VNs are visual artists, and I think it's really cool that they can punctuate updates of "nothing I can really show yet!" with cute sketches each month. I can't do that, sadly, so I just continue to plug away at the game when I have the time.
That's all I can tell you, and since you are no longer part of the project, I would really appreciate it if you stopped adding heaps of stress to my day whenever you post. Just seems like a drag on everyone's time, both yours and mine.
As for the scam accusation....radio silence for months at a time is VERY suspicious! Especially after you promised not to do it again (and you remain extremely active on other sites like Twitter). You have to understand that certain actions give off an appearance of impropriety even if none is intended. What else to you expect backers to think when you take our money, don’t update the Kickstarter for months, and then ignore our concerns while you putz around on Twitter? It DOES look scammy and disrespectful to the paid backers. What other conclusion do you expect people to come to when you behave so unprofessionally?
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Believe it or not, I don't want to be on bad terms with you. The game does seem great so far and I really do want to see it finished. I'll gladly purchase Lovely Little Thieves on the non-Kickstarter market if you ever do end up completing it. And I hope you can be more communicative with your remaining backers in the future.
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I wish you luck in getting this project finished (even if I’m no longer a part of it).
I appreciate the refund. But I still think it's messed up that the ONLY thing that can get you to communicate with your backers is when one of them asks for their money back. The fact that you responded to me so quickly shows that you at least check this page out regularly. So I just don't get how/why you couldn't keep your promise not to completely ignore the Kickstarter page for months at a time (even as backers express legitimate concerns).
Would just like to clarify that not a single cent of this Kickstarter's money has gone or will ever go to anything pertaining to my gender transition. 100% of it has gone and will go to the finished production of the game, which is still in progress, albeit slow progress. My transition is being paid for out of my own pocket, as is Lovely Little Thieves when production demands go beyond the $20,000 raised from the kickstarter, which I have said from the beginning that they would.
I would be happy to refund your contribution to the game and remove you from the backers list for the project. The only reason I didn't do this earlier was lack of an easy process for this through Kickstarter. But for now, I will refund your personal contribution to Lovely Little Thieves immediately and simply worry about removing you from the backers list later.
I'm sorry your experience with this project has been so poor. There is no reason, however, to accuse me of scamming and misallocating funds, a very serious charge, when I have clearly done nothing of the sort. Progress on the finished game is just very slow at this time, and when I am finally ready with updates, I promise they will be much more substantial. Thank you to everyone for your patience.
...ugh.
I checked this page out for the first time since December in the hopes that there would be at least ONE update (even if it was just a "still workin’ on it!” message). But I guess I was naive to think you'd learn to show respect for the folks who forked over their hard-earned money to back your project.
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There is NO EXCUSE for this! I know you recently went through a big “life change”. But, like I said when this same problem arose last year: if you’re healthy enough to make 20+ dopey tweets per day, you’re healthy enough to post monthly updates to this Kickstarter to assure your backers that you haven’t SCAMMED US out of $20,000 freakin’ dollars!
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If you don’t have the intention and/or capability to finish this project, PLEASE do the honorable thing and give us back our money. I personally want a refund (regardless of whether or not you ever finish this game) because of the blatant disrespect you’ve shown to all of us by not even deigning to visit this page once a month even after you made a big show of apologizing for your previous radio silence.
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I would not have donated to this project if I had known that my money would go to paying for your testosterone injections and therapy bills. That’s not what I signed up for.
Fellow backers....I think we need to start demanding refunds. It's the only thing that will get Chapman's attention (it worked last time I did it). And she clearly respects us so little that the ONLY thing that will make her visit this page again is the prospect of having to give back the $20,000 she got from us.
Seconded (or thirded?). I'd really appreciate some sort of update as well. While I'm sure the answer is "still working, nothing new yet", just saying so is way better than nothing at all. You acknowledged as much in your last update, which is why the silence is especially disappointing this time.
I totally understand the anxiety that comes with falling behind on a project, then having to explain what's going on before you have anything to show for the delays. I had that all throughout my school career =P but it's absolutely ok to admit how much you did (or didn't) get done so far. We just want to be kept in the loop is all. Thanks!
Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
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Show older commentsHope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on February 19
Welp, scratch that. I've come down with a really bad cold and can't sit up for long periods of time. :( I'll get it done and posted as soon as I'm able.
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on February 18
Sorry for the delays! Next update will be posted tomorrow, I'm doing my best to get it finished. :)
Jamly on February 11
Today's the 1st programming insight update, right? That sounds neat. I'm not s programmer so I have no idea what to expect, but backstage looks into stuff are always cool.
David Conneran on February 5
Yay tomorrow morning! https://twitter.com/ANNJakeH/status/828118731972763648
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on January 13
Welp, scratch that, work and name change stuff ate a full day, today is going to be crazy-busy as well, and in retrospect, I just realized I hadn't been able to work on the game this whole past week, so I'm being smart about this and pushing the schedule back just one week. Danielle log will be up on Saturday, schedule is otherwise inched over one week in turn.
Cameron Raymer on January 12
Thanks for the update!
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on January 11
Victoria: Yes, I had an out-of-town friend I never get to see move here this weekend and it was also in the heat of Preview Guide, so it will be up tomorrow morning instead. ^^; This doesn't change the schedule otherwise, except that Randy's character log will probably be Sunday instead of Saturday.
Victoria L. on January 10
Hi Jacob, just curious about the status of the next update, since it's been a few days. Is it going to be significantly delayed? Thanks.
Victor on December 14
Just wanted to say as a random backer, we're with you JO. I (like most people I'm sure) am excited about getting the game, but I know life can be messy. Hoping for a better 2017 for all of us!
Darlene Yang on December 14
YAY! AN UPDATE~~~~ XDDDDDD I'm so happy to hear you're alive and hopefully well? I haven't forgotten nor have I lost interest in the game, just waiting patiently and supporting from the sidelines, ^ ^
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on December 13
(Addendum: serious personal issues came up yesterday unexpectedly, so I have to compose the update for tomorrow morning instead. I really can't catch a break these days...)
Conrad Wormworth on December 13
Hope things are going well with the project. Looking forward to hearing more!
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on December 11
Okay, I've got a long-term plan mapped out finally, so major update will be posted tomorrow morning. Thank you for your patience.
Tiso Spencer
Superbacker
on December 8
Well, what's going on with the project? Here's the problem that honesty creators need to actually own up on and just admit they're at fault and apologize and move forward:
MAKE UPDATES AND STOP BEING RADIO SILENT
That's all we ask. I was reading the last update 27 and didn't realize until I was reading the comments that it was from 2015. We're almost in 2017 with more than an entire year without an actual update. The fact there has only been updates through the comments because of the typical reactions from backers because creators vanish without a trace is to be expected.
Lauren Sullivan on November 28
Really glad to hear so! I look forward to it. Getting a quick response definitely does help. Bet of luck!
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on November 19
@Brenda: I have never once used the word "persecution" for delays on the project and the understandable criticism of those delays. Trust me, you are definitely the posterchild example for my inability to give refunds and remove backers from the project despite my best efforts. I have *absolutely* tried over and over to get you refunded and removed specifically, like you and I both want. Unfortunately, Kickstarter's break from Amazon Payments and non-communicative support ticket system has made in-system refunding for this project next to impossible for the time being. When I figure out a workaround for this, I will definitely let you know, but the project is still being completed, albeit very slowly because it's being created by such a small crew, in many cases just me. Many visual novels and indie games have taken this long or longer to be completed with minimal updates, and it's not ideal, but it does happen sometimes.
@Lauren Thank you for voicing your concerns, and I deeply apologize once again for the lack of communication. I will definitely have an update with new material done before Christmas. Thank you, and I hope this eases your concerns somewhat. :)
Brenda C on November 19
@Lauren Sullivan
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You are never getting your money back. Even if you demand a refund and this project goes nearly a year without a single update. Chapman will just cry "persecution" and continue ignoring you and this project. Trust me on this.
Lauren Sullivan on November 16
Jacob... it's almost been a year since the day one beta. I know life gets crazy but if there's nothing by Christmas (new screenshots, new voice teases, literally anything... even the pango dango tumblr is dead silent) I'll have to rescind my pledge :( I really hope I won't have to but this silence is starting to get to me.
Sarah Rice on November 2
Hi Jacob! I hope everything is going okay! I follow you on twitter too and know you have a heck of a lot on your plate but if you have a quick second it would be great to have an update! Its coming up on a year since the last official update on the main page and I'm sure many of us would love to hear how things are going or get even a vague timeline. I hope you are still interested in completing the project since I'm still very excited about it, but if you are not or you don't see yourself being able to update us in the next few months with anything new I would hope you would let us all know. Thank you and I wish you the best!
Amanda on October 30
I really hope theres some sort of update soon. Maybe something as simple as a hiatus until a team can be put together?
Best Wishes
Luca on October 10
Is there a new ETA now?
Brenda C on October 8
@Hope
I'm sorry to hear the refund process for this site is so messed up. But, as I have said many times before, I would have been more understanding (and would not have left those previous angry comments) if you had just taken the time to let us all know what the hell is going on with the project and/or the refund process. The only reason things got this bad is because you refuse to communicate with us when we ask for an update politely. You only make an appearance and explain yourself AFTER the shit hits the fan. This is a bad habit that needs to stop
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Believe it or not, I would be willing to take back my refund request and continue backing this project if you just made a commitment to update this page on a somewhat regular basis (and actually STUCK to that commitment). Even if the update schedule was merely a "still workin' on it" message every two months. If you can't commit to something as simple as that; I don't see how you'd be capable of delivering the finished game any time in the near future.
Victoria L. on October 6
Hi there. So apart from the refund issue (hope that's been resolved!), has there been any progress on the game itself? It's alright if there hasn't been, just checking in and hoping for an update. Thanks!
Lauren Sullivan on August 31
Thank you for the update Jacob! Sending good vibrations your way. Glad to hear some feedback, and best of luck to you and the project moving forward :)
Julia M on August 18, 2016
Thanks for the update! Glad to hear the game's still coming along, and I'm sorry to hear that it's been a tough year. Hope everything's going better for you now.
Trudy on August 14, 2016
@Hope Hope things get better for you soon -- and so sorry to hear about all the Amazon hassle. Sending you so many good vibes right now!
Cameron Raymer on August 11, 2016
Thanks for the update, Jake.
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on August 10, 2016
Okay, here's the full skinny on what's going on with refunds. I hadn't gotten around to writing it all out yet because, well, it's depressing and not pretty and the process of posting about the situation scares the shit out of me to be honest. But here's what's going on.
I've been trying to get Brenda refunded since last April, to give you an idea of how surprisingly hellish the process has been. While Kickstarter projects that are started now have a handy and easy-to-process refund system, one button-click away, Lovely Little Thieves was started back when KS was using Amazon Payments as a middleman for processing payments. When I sent a support ticket to Kickstarter asking what I need to do, they told me I would have to take it to Amazon Payments, that they had no authority over it. To process a refund through Amazon Payments, you have to use the merchant account they give you, except this merchant account kept ghosting on me whenever I tried to log in and access any information or processes. It took me forever to get in and just get a transaction ID for Brenda's payment out of a giant Excel file. After that, my only option was to call Amazon Payments directly and try to get someone on the phone who even seemed to know that they used to deal with Kickstarter payments. The first several people I got on the phone every time I called inevitably had no idea what I was talking about so I kept getting transferred.
I say "each time I called," because I called three times, three days in a row, and spent about an hour on the phone every time. Every time, they could not solve my problem. Most of the time, they couldn't find the transaction ID at all. On the third hour of the third call on the third day (yes I realize how ironic this is considering the plot of LLT), I was finally in contact with someone familiar enough with the system to tell me what was going on, because they finally located the transaction ID. The number and history "exists," but that's about it, there's no actionable refund they can issue from their system because however the accounting broke down in Amazon Payments's split from Kickstarter, it didn't attribute that monetary record to them or something (???), and they don't have any connection to Kickstarter to take the backer off the project (which is something I need to be able to do in order to offer refunds, since the project is successful and still in development.)
So I sent another support ticket in to Kickstarter attempting to explain all this, and got another response saying to take it up with Amazon Payments (that clearly didn't seem to understand the context of my message saying they were unable to help). At this point, I was pretty exhausted with the whole process and unsure of what to do. So that's all I know about refunds right now. I (think?) I finally have the time and mental energy to try and tackle this dilemma again this weekend, but it's not as easy as just "sending money back thru Paypal," because that could put me in a liable position when it comes to the ability to remove backers from the project along with refunding their money.
The project is still going forward, albeit slowly thanks to the nature of this project as a largely one-man effort in a year that has been a *lot* of emotional exhaustion and unexpected upheavals for one man to take. I'm a fairly private person these days, so I don't talk about it much, but I've been through a lot in the past year and a half that has taken large chunks of time and energy out of my life in every possible regard, especially when it comes to this project, which breaks my heart because of course I've been wanting to share this final story for almost two years at this point. The wait is extremely painful for me as well, but some days, it's all I can do to take care of myself in more immediate ways. Thank you again to all the backers for their patience and support, and I promise that the final story of LLT will be worth all the setbacks, and I'm deeply sorry that it won't arrive as quickly as either of us ever wanted.
Lauren Sullivan on August 9, 2016
Honestly, I'm starting to feel the same, though I haven't lost total faith yet. Jacob, maybe you can post some backer-exclusive voice teasers to let us know that you're on track in other areas since voice recording should be under way? Something from content that we haven't seen yet to give us a hint of where the story is going? That way you wouldn't have to release a demo you don't feel is complete but would also let us know you're on track with parts of the project that don't involve coding.
Katrina Peñaranda on August 1, 2016
Still no response or update? I've been checking the comments to see if there is any reply but still none. I'm losing trust in even getting the game released next year. I'm patient with waiting for kickstarter games but at least other developers update us. As much as I'd like to play this game, I'm just disappointed with how this is handled. I'd like my money back. How can I get a refund? If this game gets finished, I'll just purchase it with its selling price. �
Cameron Raymer on July 23, 2016
I hope you get refunded Brenda. I'm tired of reading your comments.
Brenda C on July 22, 2016
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""And if you find months-long radio silence automatically suspicious enough to toss out accusations of scamming to anyone who runs a project, that's not on them, that's on you.""
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The radio silence would not have bothered me if you hadn't said this last year....
"" It's my fault for being uncommunicative about the delays, reason being that I don't want to update backers with things they already know (it's not done yet) when I don't have other material I can show them (except lines of code and spoiler-y images and text, I guess?) I'm genuinely sorry. I haven't done as good a job as I should have with keeping backers in the loop, ""
You apologized to your backers and promised to be better about keeping folks in the loop. And then, when I called you out on failing to keep the promise YOU made, you got indignant and threw a fit. That is both childish and unprofessional.
If it was your intention all along to ignore this page and refuse to provide updates even after deadlines had LONG passed, than you should have been honest about that last year instead of delivering an insincere apology and making a promise you clearly had no intention of keeping.
Also, I really don't see how asking for some regular update schedule (whether it be once a month, once every two months, or whatever would have worked for you) is such an unreasonable demand that you’re getting upset about it. It would literally take you five seconds to write a "still working on it" post on the update section of this kickstarter. And it baffles me how you think I'm an unreasonable monster for asking you to do that.
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""Most of the tiny-dev-team game projects I've backed have months of radio silence, because delays happen, ""
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I haven't seen it in any projects I've backed thus far. But then again, up until now I've only backed professional people who gave a damn about keeping backers informed when delays happened.
Again, I ask you, if radio silence was what you planned to do all along, then why did you promise the exact opposite last year when backers said it made them nervous? It’s not the delays that bothered me; it’s the fact that you went back on the promise you made (and got butthurt when I called you out on it)
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“”That's all I can tell you, and since you are no longer part of the project, I would really appreciate it if you stopped adding heaps of stress to my day whenever you post.””
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Until I get that refund, I’m still part of this project. And I think it’s childish for you to play the victim when called out on unprofessional behavior. You need to be willing to take criticism when you’re taking other people’s money for a project. If you can’t handle that, than you shouldn’t have resorted to crowd-funding to get money for your indie game.
Sarah Rice on July 21, 2016
Any update at all would be appreciated. I know you are super busy and have a life, thats okay. I think we're a bit anxious about the lack of news, seems like we're in the same boat we were in last year... I know this game will be great when it comes out, but the amount of pushed back release dates and general quietness is always worrying when supporting a kickstarter. I'm hoping we'll hear from you soon, and wish you the best.
Katrina Peñaranda on July 19, 2016
Hi! Just curious on the status of the progress of the game. Last update I think was from last year. I hope the game dev isn't dropped without us knowing.
FearfulSymmetry on July 16, 2016
Yeah, once again, it would be nice to get some updates. I'm really starting to lose faith in the project, and am beginning to consider finding some way to get my money back. I sincerely hope things work out for you, but I'm slowly losing all the faith I had in this.
Mathis Allen on July 12, 2016
Could you please make monthly public updates so we know you are on track?
LaTonya Crowder on July 3, 2016
I haven't been checking in with the project since the last update. I'm not really bothered by the delays and am happy to be a backer. I actually haven't fully explored the partial Day 1 beta yet and am still pretty excited about the game. Good luck with everything Jacob.
Lidia Coe
Superbacker
on June 17, 2016
Hello! Just wanted to let you know not everyone freaks out at radio silence, and have the brain power to check up on the project using social media. I never felt like you were trying to scam anyone out of their money, especially if you so easily give refunds. I find it interesting that people throw around $20,000 like they donated all of it, but they don't speak for me or the amount I donated. I trust you'll finish when you finish, and give us updates when there's something to actually mention.
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on June 13, 2016
Hi! Things are going well, I've been able to resume work on coding Day 1 as of this past week and a half. (Time before that was taken up with my primary work duties.) My current goal is to get a new content release ready before Anime Expo (in the first weekend of July.) That's not a promise by any means, I'll really have to push to make that possible, but it's what I'm striving for right now. :)
lila92 on June 13, 2016
Hi, how is it going with the project? Even if it's only saying that u are working on it, we would like to know...
Lauren Sullivan on June 3, 2016
Hey Jacob... wondering if we could get an update. You did say early Q2... are we still on track for Q2 at all? I know you're probably busy with plenty of other things, but it would be good to get a revised schedule (or at least a push back of the day 2 beta)
Still believing in this project and looking forward to playing it.
Line Michelle Dalby-Frandsen on May 27, 2016
Hello Hope Chapman, hope you're doing fine! I cannot wait for the finished project! Take your time and do not listen to those who feel the need to hassle you, the game will be done when it is done. Hope you have a lovely weekend.
Sayuri Stemp on May 23, 2016
Hey, so I tried clicking the Mediafire link for the latest build but it's down. Any backups? I really wanna play the newest version.
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on April 27, 2016
Brenda
I was notified of your comments through a concerned message from another backer, who was also bothered by the virulence of your comments. I get notifications when people message me directly, but not when they comment on the page. I promise I'm not just sitting around checking the page and ignoring questions, but I have turned on e-mail notifications for new comments as of today, so maybe that will help fix that problem.
And if you find months-long radio silence automatically suspicious enough to toss out accusations of scamming to anyone who runs a project, that's not on them, that's on you. Most of the tiny-dev-team game projects I've backed have months of radio silence, because delays happen, especially on tiny indie projects, and these groups don't have anyone in charge of PR to devote extra time to just addressing feedback and posting updates. In my case, the writer, director, and main programmer are all the same person. It's not an "excuse" for months of radio silence, but I can say that apart from pages of unfinished code, there's nothing I can show you, so time can get away from me as I try to balance everything. Many project leads on games and VNs are visual artists, and I think it's really cool that they can punctuate updates of "nothing I can really show yet!" with cute sketches each month. I can't do that, sadly, so I just continue to plug away at the game when I have the time.
That's all I can tell you, and since you are no longer part of the project, I would really appreciate it if you stopped adding heaps of stress to my day whenever you post. Just seems like a drag on everyone's time, both yours and mine.
Brenda C on April 17, 2016
As for the scam accusation....radio silence for months at a time is VERY suspicious! Especially after you promised not to do it again (and you remain extremely active on other sites like Twitter). You have to understand that certain actions give off an appearance of impropriety even if none is intended. What else to you expect backers to think when you take our money, don’t update the Kickstarter for months, and then ignore our concerns while you putz around on Twitter? It DOES look scammy and disrespectful to the paid backers. What other conclusion do you expect people to come to when you behave so unprofessionally?
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Believe it or not, I don't want to be on bad terms with you. The game does seem great so far and I really do want to see it finished. I'll gladly purchase Lovely Little Thieves on the non-Kickstarter market if you ever do end up completing it. And I hope you can be more communicative with your remaining backers in the future.
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I wish you luck in getting this project finished (even if I’m no longer a part of it).
Brenda C on April 17, 2016
I appreciate the refund. But I still think it's messed up that the ONLY thing that can get you to communicate with your backers is when one of them asks for their money back. The fact that you responded to me so quickly shows that you at least check this page out regularly. So I just don't get how/why you couldn't keep your promise not to completely ignore the Kickstarter page for months at a time (even as backers express legitimate concerns).
Hope Chapman (PangoDango Games) Creator on April 16, 2016
Brenda,
Would just like to clarify that not a single cent of this Kickstarter's money has gone or will ever go to anything pertaining to my gender transition. 100% of it has gone and will go to the finished production of the game, which is still in progress, albeit slow progress. My transition is being paid for out of my own pocket, as is Lovely Little Thieves when production demands go beyond the $20,000 raised from the kickstarter, which I have said from the beginning that they would.
I would be happy to refund your contribution to the game and remove you from the backers list for the project. The only reason I didn't do this earlier was lack of an easy process for this through Kickstarter. But for now, I will refund your personal contribution to Lovely Little Thieves immediately and simply worry about removing you from the backers list later.
I'm sorry your experience with this project has been so poor. There is no reason, however, to accuse me of scamming and misallocating funds, a very serious charge, when I have clearly done nothing of the sort. Progress on the finished game is just very slow at this time, and when I am finally ready with updates, I promise they will be much more substantial. Thank you to everyone for your patience.
-- Jacob Hope Chapman
Brenda C on April 16, 2016
...ugh.
I checked this page out for the first time since December in the hopes that there would be at least ONE update (even if it was just a "still workin’ on it!” message). But I guess I was naive to think you'd learn to show respect for the folks who forked over their hard-earned money to back your project.
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There is NO EXCUSE for this! I know you recently went through a big “life change”. But, like I said when this same problem arose last year: if you’re healthy enough to make 20+ dopey tweets per day, you’re healthy enough to post monthly updates to this Kickstarter to assure your backers that you haven’t SCAMMED US out of $20,000 freakin’ dollars!
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If you don’t have the intention and/or capability to finish this project, PLEASE do the honorable thing and give us back our money. I personally want a refund (regardless of whether or not you ever finish this game) because of the blatant disrespect you’ve shown to all of us by not even deigning to visit this page once a month even after you made a big show of apologizing for your previous radio silence.
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I would not have donated to this project if I had known that my money would go to paying for your testosterone injections and therapy bills. That’s not what I signed up for.
Brenda C on April 16, 2016
Fellow backers....I think we need to start demanding refunds. It's the only thing that will get Chapman's attention (it worked last time I did it). And she clearly respects us so little that the ONLY thing that will make her visit this page again is the prospect of having to give back the $20,000 she got from us.
Victoria L. on April 12, 2016
Seconded (or thirded?). I'd really appreciate some sort of update as well. While I'm sure the answer is "still working, nothing new yet", just saying so is way better than nothing at all. You acknowledged as much in your last update, which is why the silence is especially disappointing this time.
I totally understand the anxiety that comes with falling behind on a project, then having to explain what's going on before you have anything to show for the delays. I had that all throughout my school career =P but it's absolutely ok to admit how much you did (or didn't) get done so far. We just want to be kept in the loop is all. Thanks!