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Anyone else really close to trans women? (self.GenderCritical)

lesbianprincess11 が 投稿

I know MANY trans women because my roommates are both in the community, so I keep meeting more and more of them, of course

I don't think all of them are bad people (just the ones who believe in the cotton ceiling- which isn't all of them), and I'm friends with some of them even.

The more and more I meet them, though, I just think.... They're not women. They don't behave like people who have been socialized as female, most of them don't really pass convincingly... As a young gay person on tumblr and such I was along with everyone else "trans women are women!" And thought that maybe the solution to transphobia was to meet actual trans people to see them as people. Now, I see them as people with the right to live their lives however they want to. But since meeting so many of them, it really caused me to actually change my mind on whether they are "the same" as cis women or not. And they're not. And they're my friends but I just cannot see them as female.

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[–]little_red_lion 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know a few young transmen. And they do not act like teenage boys, they can pass from a distance but up close they look like butch teenage women. they are either very angry or very shy. Angry butch teenagers or shy butch teenagers, but none of them walk, talk, behave as the angry or shy boys I know so it isn't a matter of emotional behavior. I also know young transgirl. I think he is 10. He looks like a boy, he moves his body like a boy, he talks like a boy. In fact I hadn't realized how much differently a tween boy moves from a tween girl until I saw him. He's wearing pink skirts, has long hair, but he moves like a boy. I see him next to girls his own age and the difference is striking.

[–]newgcf 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've heard this, about male vs female movements. My guess is that it's not due to socialization, but to the difference in hip placement and bone structure of the pelvic region.

[–]othliathe worst 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's likely a bit of both.

[–]Caducea 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've met a few in my lifetime. One was a customer at the thrift store I used to work at. They actually passed really REALLY well, and I didn't notice until the second time they came in. They were very nice, polite, and terribly shy. They were dropping off old clothing, so I told her about all our sales coming up and she was like, "Oh that's great! I got rid of everything and need to start over!" She was maybe 20-22 ish, and again passed VERY well, until she talked for awhile. Overall, I assume this is what a lot of younger trans women are like. I would have no problem with this person in my bathroom, because I couldn't tell she was a trans woman until interacting with her for a prolonged period. She was kind, polite, made a few little jokes, overall a positive experience for me and my coworkers.

On the other hand, I uses to work at a different clothing store and we had an older trans woman come in, drunk off their ass. They were obviously not passing, and they were making lewd remarks about the clothing and mannequins with their female companions. They were like maybe mid 40s, early 50s? 5 o clock shadow and everything. The companions seemed much younger, and very much the stereotypical SJW handmaidens. The group was loudly shrieking about going on a shopping spree, being fabulous, being "bitches", etc. It was really disruptive and overall a negative experience.

[–]nuffsaid_nopomo 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Because I'm in a very stereotypically male line of work, I have a lot of transwoman co workers.

I'm in favor of everyone meeting transwomen. I think it would deal with two issues:

  1. Transphobia/homophobia: they're not "freaks" or anything, they're people just like you! (Assuming that our hypothetical "you" is a man).
  2. They're obviously not women.

The trans people I know talk openly about their autism issues as well. I think it would flip the tone of the conversation from seeing them as a fierce beautiful vanguard of a civil rights movement to largely being sad/gullible people with issues*

Edit to note that this may be only the ones I know. But the ones I've encountered are very activist in the community.

Edited again to remove language that may be offensive to autistic people.

[–]fjollop 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Uh, there are autistic women here and we're not "a pitiful crowd of loners", thanks.

That said, what there really needs to be is awareness of how the indifference to gender roles that's a typical feature of autistic people is being medicalised and exploited, because fuck anyone who contributes to this. We don't need drugs, we don't need surgery, we are not somehow "not women" or "not men".

[–]nuffsaid_nopomo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Did I ever say all autistic people are pitiful? No, but I do pity those who have been indoctrinated into a cult. Edit: and really what is wrong with pity as an emotion wrt the trans issue? I think I wouldn't care half as much if this weren't happening to people that I knew personally, people that are gullible and have no idea about the world.

Edit again: out of curiosity,have you ever felt particularly targeted by cults as an autistic person?

[–]fjollop 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Come on, what you said was grotesque. You suggested autism and similar traits should be used as an insult to invalidate people.

Autistic people dragged into the trans cult are victims, but that doesn't mean their autism should be used to attack them. And "pitiful crowd of loner autistic dudes that don't make eye contact" is an attack, because you're invoking NTs horror at the autistic and their desire to have nothing to do with us. Don't do that.

[–]nuffsaid_nopomo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I edited because I didn't intend to offend.

[–]149824710298347 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really close, no. I have a few acquaintances who are trans. They're really lovely, I have no issue with them as individuals.

Are they the same as women, no of course not.

[–]flapyourwings 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have only known a handful of (out) trans women - my community is very conservative so it's just not safe to be visibly GNC. They were all great. No beef there. I always understood these individuals as women in the social sense, despite knowing that they are biologically male.