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Confirmed: 120,000 Bitcoins from the Bitfinex hack are now beginning to enter exchanges. What will be the effect of ~$130,000,000 worth of Bitcoin being dumped into the market? (walletexplorer.com)

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[–]Barkey_McButtstain[S] 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yesterday I posted news that the 876 Bitcoins of 120,000 Bitcoins stolen from Bitfinex that started moving last month were currently being shuffled around and accumulating at address 14We1bbHqPhT1iFrJAoEw772GraB8XKN9D , after which they were being moved to various sites, one of which I identified as being the Ponzi site btc2x , and what appeared to be other Ponzi/gambling sites and exchanges.

For those unacquainted with Bitcoin Blockchain tracing, simply copy any of the confirmed addresses from the hack that started moving last month and paste them into an explorer. I find the bitinfocharts explorer to work well for this, although it lacks some details (such as identifying named outputs like exchanges), but any explorer should work to trace the path of these coins. Once you paste the address in, just start following the outputs forward. In some cases the criminal has been cleaving off portions of each group at some addresses (later recombined with the rest), in which case I followed the larger group. I tried maybe ten groups of 4 btc from the hack, and ALL of them ended up in address 14We1bbHqPhT1iFrJAoEw772GraB8XKN9D after 12-15 in/out shuffles. I think that there is at least one more address being used to accumulate the coins after the initial shuffle.

u/fmlnoidea420 identified the wallet that the aforementioned accumulator address was associated with, and was able to see on a different explorer than I was using that one of the outputs was in fact 10.9 BTC to OKcoin.. Wallet Explorer seems to only list confirmed transactions, however. This morning I was trying the BTC.com explorer to poke around and saw that there is another 20 BTC from the Bitfinex Hack accumulator wallet awaiting confirmation at OKcoin. I have not checked to see if any coins other than the 876/120,000 Bitfinex hack coins that began moving last month are on the move. 876 of BTC being dumped into the market = >$1,000,000 of value taken forom the Bitcoin Market and put into the pocket of the hacker(s). What will wiping $130,000,000 worth of Buy Orders off of the books do? Something to consider during this price spike euphoria, gentlemen.

[–]Forlarren 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is fantastic. Though I long predicted this, you are the real MVP here.

Computer security hasn't been taken seriously far, far, far too long.

Hacking is going to happen but with this much money at stake maybe we will finally see some more automated tracking tools. Necessity being the mother of invention and all.

There was always the theory that the bitcoin can't be truly fungible if it's traceable (might be mine, might not, didn't keep good enough records to say who thought it up first, lets call it a communal thing, not claiming credit just remembering I was there for those conversations) and the effects of that are entirely nearly entirely hypothetical. Now people have a stake in finding out those answers.

Considering I was a Satoshi white paper early adopter I'm fine with the $130,000,000 lesson in computer security. This is the biggest unexplored "what if" in cryptocurrencies right now and will have huge impacts going forward.

Also just that it's possible to hack $130,000,000 in Bitcoin is, itself, quite amazing, it wouldn't be nearly that high if it wasn't worth as much as it is. You know you got something good when other people try to steal it and it hurts when you lose it.

In the long run this will kill bitcoin or just make it stronger. Either outcome is 100% fine with me, I was never in it for the money. I just like making the bankers squirm. Taking one on the chin like a champ, just makes them squirm harder.

[–]ILikeGreenit 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If these coins can be traced from the hack, and end up at OKcoin for sale, wouldn't OKcoin know who to pay the money to after the sale? Hence, who stole the coins?

Doesn't OKcoin have KYC now?

[–]Rawlsdeep 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even if they don't know the person, they have the coins.

[–]ectogestator 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

much fapping at r/buttcoin

[–]Rawlsdeep 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wow, kinda a bit of a ghost town over there isn't it? What happened to /u/rub3x :(?

E: Forgot my damn question mark.

[–]ectogestator 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

the President of r/buttcoin, jstolfi, has declared a holiday over there so people can watch the BTC price and mourn.

[–]Rawlsdeep 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does he actually post there ever?

[–]Forlarren 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I could use a couple more dumps before the moon anyway.

[–]Barkey_McButtstain[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

As an update, Here is a post by "Chris of Bitfinex", who responded over on "the other Bitcoin Reddit". He is claiming that the coins which can plainly be seen moving from the addresses he himself provided, are actually not moving, even though the addresses he listed are empty and there is a clear trail to the address I have listed, and then on to a variety of sites for final cleansing.

These Bitfinex guys are really trying hard to track those nasty hackers who stole $130,000,000 from them. Srsly.

[–]bfx_drew 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you misunderstood Chris's post.

He provided the addresses because they are the starting points for the chain analysis. Bitfinex is well aware that some of the coins have moved.

Bitfinex has tools to track the movements of all coins that have passed through those hack addresses and has been in contact with dozens of other companies and services have been recipients of the stolen coins. They are on top of the chain analysis. The coins that have moved... I'm afraid that is old news.

[–]Barkey_McButtstain[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Incorrect. He is stating very clearly that no coins have moved since January 27.

No coins have moved from any of the Bitfinex attacker's addresses since 27th January 2017

This is COMPLETE and TOTAL HORSESHIT! The coins paused for a few days, and then began moving again around January 31, and they have been on the move continuously ever since. I have had my eye on these coins the entire time, and decided to post this information now because they all came together here and began to move to secondary mixing sites for final cleansing, at which point they will not be traceable anymore.

Edit to add: Here is the post I made in reply to Chris' claim that the hacked coins were actually not moving, in case there are those who do not want to soil themselves by going to r/bitcoin :

Your list is the one I have been using, thank you for providing it. I even linked to it a couple of times so that others can confirm my findings. Every address I have checked from it so far HAS moved, and has moved to this address: 14We1bbHqPhT1iFrJAoEw772GraB8XKN9D .

I implore every person reading this to check for themselves. I will demonstrate the path of the coins from the first address (1D38A8TJHAQfEGdoirE1WpXPEh7NMNHT5L) from your list as an example. Here goes:

Here is the first address listed by Chris. It is now empty. This means the coins have moved.

Second shuffle address Many groups were moved to this address and combined, then 93 BTC moved all at once.

Third 93 in 93 out.

Fourth 15 more were added, this group is now 108 BTC. From here they are divided, I will follow the largest group, which is 42 BTC

Fifth Here they are divided again, from here I am following the largest group- 16 BTC

Sixth 16 in 16 out,with a small amount shaved off.

Seventh 15.7 in 15.7 out.

Eighth again, all in , all out, with 1.8 shaved off and sent to another shuffle address.

Ninth 13.9 in, 13.9 out, with .4 being returned to the shuffle and 13.5 continuing onward.

Tenth All in, all out with 11.6 continuing onward, the rest returned to the shuffle.

Eleventh 11.6 arrive, 11 sent forward, .6 returned to the shuffle.

Twelfth 11 in, 10.8 sent forward

Thirteenth 10.8 in, 8.3 sent forward, 2.5 returned to the shuffle

Fourteenth 8.3 in, 8.2 sent forward

Fifteenth 8.2 in. These are divided. I will follow the larger group of 4.6

We are now at the accumulator address 14We1bbHqPhT1iFrJAoEw772GraB8XKN9D

The coins HAVE moved, and every one I have traced ends up here, where they are then sent to a variety of sites which all appear to be Gambling /Ponzi sites and at least one Exchange, OKcoin.

Edit to add: I will kindly accept the reward from you fine folks at Bitfinex right now. No other thanks for doing your fucking job is necessary.

End of Post. I find it worthy to note that the thread on r/bitcoin was about to hit the front page, and then suddenly the vote count went from ~25 to 1 instantly.

[–]MrChrisJ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

We do not know who is in control of those coins once they move away from the initial wallet address that received the hacked coins in August.

My post was aimed directly that the claim made in the title of the post which suggested that 120,000 Bitcoins were moving and asking the reader to imagine what effect $130,000,000 would have on the market.

So let me be clear: no new coins have been moved from any of the 2,072 addresses that received the Bitfinex hacked coins on the 2nd August 2016. You might well be tracking what you believe to be the same coins but in fact as far you know they are now in the hands of a different entity who has an entirely separate motive.

So I will say again, only ~$794,000 USD worth of bitcoin has been withdrawn from the hacker's address since August 2016. No new transactions have been spent from the 2,072 receiving addresses since 27th January 2017

[–]Barkey_McButtstain[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You stated very clearly that none of the hacked coins have moved since January 27. This is obviously incorrect. Are you lying, or completely incompetent? All of them I have checked have been moving the whole time, AND are clearly being controlled by a single person who has moved every coin I have traced to the same address.

[–]Rawlsdeep 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

So...how are these not going to be seized by LEO?

[–]moleccc 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

LEO?

[–]Darkeyescry22 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Good question. Obviously, seizing bitcoins isn't really possible, as long as the person is using a traffic anonymizer (TOR).

But I have no idea how you would convert them into fiat currency without attracting attention. I assume there is some way to do it, otherwise DN vendors wouldn't be able to survive.

[–]Rawlsdeep 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If they are confirmed going to exchanges though that's where they would be seized. We might not know who the attacker is, but if we know the coins are accessible to law enforcement I don't see why they wouldn't seize them.

Difference on DN being we don't know the starting address, and if we do, they just aren't big enough targets.

[–]diogenetic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Imagine if this is the real reason Okcoins prices are so under western spot. Although I'm not sure if you can or can't deposit btc there right now, I know they had the withdrawal issues.

[–]H0dl 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (12子コメント)

probably the same effect as the 450,000 coin USG auctions: UP

[–]Barkey_McButtstain[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (11子コメント)

. I am certain that dumping coins on exchanges makes the price go down by wiping off the current highest Buy Orders, which are what dictates the price, but I find your theory that the opposite is true to be fascinating. Please explain how dumping coins on exchanges makes the price go up.

[–]MeTheImaginaryWizard 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not if the hacker dies before his transactions get confirmed.

And suddenly Core's roadmap makes sense. /s

[–]NilacTheGrim 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

LOL, this made me laugh pretty hard. Upvote.

[–]H0dl 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

obviously it depends on the level of demand. that's indeterminate in aggregate compared to that amount of supply. as well, there no telling how successful that attacker will be in actually realizing his fiat profit. just like you've analyzed this, i'm sure the exchanges are looking to intervene. you could get some sort of paradoxical reasoning from investors that if indeed the exchange is successful in seizing those coins before they get dumped (or even not), that could result in the overall spectre of this foreseen dump being lifted/resolved incentivizing investors to instead buy vs sell. we're in a bull mkt right now you know.

[–]Vloxxity -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If they seize those coins, what should they do with them? And what gives them the right to do so?

And if they do so, those coins might even be laundered already, and sb who isn't in on it will get damaged?!

[–]H0dl 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

hey, i'm not making any moral judgments or recommendations. just giving him an explanation as to why a price drop might not occur.

[–]Vloxxity 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This shouldnt be a accusation. Im sorry if it seems like that.

I dont even know what i should/could/would do if i would be in the position of a exchange that got these coins.

[–]H0dl 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

makes the price go down by wiping off the current highest Buy Orders, which are what dictates the price

you're an intelligent guy. i'm sure you're aware that these displayed orders in no way represents funds that may on the sidelines in exchange accounts waiting to buy any instantaneous dip created by those sells. you just never know.

[–]singularity87Moderator 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He's pretty obviously trying to get the price to drop, other why add the extra bearish commentary to the facts?

[–]H0dl 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

could be

market says NO :)

[–]singularity87Moderator 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The exchanges aren't going to allow these coins to be sold. It is in their interest not to. Otherwise they are encouraging their exchanges to be hacked. They will make it as difficult as possible to so sell them.

[–]Sluisifer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the point is that, in spite of the extra supply of coins, the price went up. Meaning that anything could happen in this case, as well.

Now, it's not a great comparison because those coins were sold at auction in large lots. If these hit exchanges, that would have a more direct effect on depressing the price. However, it would also attract buyers that wanted to purchase large amounts without moving the market.

In the end, the influence is certainly more bearish than bullish, but as always with Bitcoin, anything can happen.

[–]bigslimvdub 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They are already in the market.

But.

Low

Low

Prices

[–]Anen-o-me 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why are the exchanges not seizing the bitcoin and returning it?

[–]Barkey_McButtstain[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

One reason might be because Bitfinex has not alerted them. They have plenty of time to send someone here to post complete lies claiming that the coins have not moved at all though.

Is this complete and total incompetence on the part of Bitfinex trying to find the "hacker" who stole $130,000,000 from them (read:YOU) ? Or, is something else going on here? If Bitfinex was interested in retrieving these coins at all, the very best way would be to alert EVERYONE every time they moved, so that there would be a thousand eyes on them. Instead, they intentionally let them be shuffled and did not say anything.

If I had not decided to alert people about these coins (Which I have been tracking all along) yesterday, they would have slipped silently and completely away to be cashed out with no record of the event at all. At this point I am suspicious that something other than sheer incompetence is at play with Bitfinex and the 120,000 "hacked" Bitcoins.

[–]cdn_int_citizen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exchanges dont want to mess with frangibility otherwise it could reduce the value of bitcoins in general.

[–]1s44c 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the biggest effect will be Zhou Tong buying a yacht.