(cache) DeVos Opponents Think About Homeschooling Instead. Good for Them! : Libertarian

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[–]iamnakedbimbo 42 ポイント43 ポイント44 ポイント 8時間前 (10子コメント)

Agreed.

All the more reason not to have a DoE in the first place. If congress wants to make laws about education, fine. We don't need an unelected cabinet department making policy though. Especially when the corruption is rampant.

In 2016, DeVos gave $2.6 million to Republicans (as you mentioned). The same year the National Education Association gave Democrats $28 million and The American Federation of Teachers gave Democrats $19 million.

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

The DoE was a boondoggle for the teacher's unions created by Carter (it hasn't existed all that long) so that he could shore up his union support by giving a cabinet position to one of the most powerful voting blocks in the country.

If DeVos can do anything to reverse the teachers unions' monopoly over the education system, her nomination will have been worth it.

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So you advocate for people to take advantage of the freedom to homeschool? That's fine. I misunderstood and thought you were advocating for the legality of homeschooling.

I'm not the OP. I'm not advocating one thing or the other. I just thought your comment was stupid. But since you asked, yes people should be able to home school their kids. I'd even go as far as saying that parents are a bit over reliant upon the state for educating their youth. But I do agree that there needs to be a public option for education which may draw some ire from more libertarian posters here.

The problem with homeschooling is that it requires one parent to leave the workforce. Many families simply don't have that financial freedom.

That's not a problem with education or homeschooling that's a problem with employment and economics. It's true in most coastal states that a dual income is pretty much mandatory to comfortably raise children, but it's more than doable in central "flyover" America.

But to push the discussion forward, I guess I want some clarification: do you actually oppose a homeschooling option?

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[–]Lineartsclassical liberal 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)

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[–]InamanlyfashionClassical liberal/pragmatist 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 4時間前 (1子コメント)

Mom is quite a shining beacon of the religious right, and as a result I feel like I was raised in a conservative bubble. It made adapting to social life in public school pretty difficult once I was actually able to choose my own friends (my only exposure to other kids was my mom's friends' kids). That was probably one of the worst parts.

But in addition, neither of my parents have a college degree, and my mom, who did most of the teaching (when she felt like it, which was maybe once or twice a week) since she didn't work, is quite frankly not very intelligent and quite a conspiracy theorist. She legitimately thought Hillary was a demon who planned to round up and execute every Christian, thinks vaccines cause autism, thinks modern medicine is a sham and everything can be solved through essential oils and avoiding GMOs...yeah. I'm legitimately worried if my dad has health issues she's going to keep him from getting legitimate treatment.

I managed to convince my parents to send me to public school because of a nearby school--outside our district, which is why I still very much support school choice. The school in my district wasn't even the closest school to our house because we lived on the county line! But the school I went to offered amazing academics and one of the best theatre programs in the state. I was amazed by how much I didn't know and how I had no clue how to study because my parents never tested me. But I did well and got a scholarship to a great university. I'm just not sure that would have happened if I had stayed homeschooled.

My experience is what makes me question homeschooling. Why should a kid who doesn't get to choose their parents be subjected to a lack of education just because their parents can't provide it to them and decide to foist craziness on them instead?

People in this sub complain about the brainwashing of government schools without acknowledging that parents who homeschool brainwash their kid even more since there's often not even the possibility of being subjected to a different opinion.

[–]eredengrin 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイントたった今 (0子コメント)

Wouldn't it be better to just have better accountability in homeschooling then? I don't see the need to remove it completely - on the flipside of your experience, why should kids in horrible districts with bad public schooling options be forced to have an inferior education because they couldn't be homeschooled? I was partially homeschooled and partially attended public school, and I came in to public school with a much better background than many of the students who had been attending school their whole lives. From other homeschoolers I've talked to, I hear good anecdotes much more often than I've heard ones such as yours. That being said, I do have to agree wholeheartedly with your analysis of the possible social implications and potential for parental brainwashing that can happen in homeschool environments (although brainwashing isn't something that public school fixes).

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I was homeschooled until fourth grade, and I think more people should consider it as an option if they're willing to do it correctly. My mother was my teacher until first grade, then I used video school until fourth grade.

There are some obvious drawbacks to homeschooling, the biggest one being a lack of accountability for the student and the parents. I knew many other homeschooled kids and most were behind their peers because their parents didn't create a decent learning environment for them at home. Another drawback is the lack of social interaction for the child. I'm terribly introverted, so spending all day at home ensured that I was very socially awkward for most of my childhood and adolescence.

The benefits definitely outweigh the drawbacks IMO, you have all the time to learn at your own pace, and the incentive to learn faster to be done with school earlier. Parents are more likely to be able to notice what their child is struggling with conceptually and since they're only teaching one student, the lesson can stop until the child does comprehend the lesson. Also, homeschooling is the best way for a student to learn HOW to learn. There's a big incentive to finish a lesson when it's your own free time that's ticking away, which motivates you to think harder about the explanation you're given.

During the grades where I was video schooling, I would rush through the day's lessons using the books to teach myself and used the videos as a supplement for when I was struggling with a concept. This sounds like a recipe for a bad education, but when I began attending a private school in fourth grade I was way ahead of my peers in most subjects. It didn't take long for me to realize that schools are just glorified daycares. I remember being appalled at the idea of homework, that I'd spent 8 hours on a single day's lessons at the school, but still had homework to do.

Edit: it's worth pointing out that during second and third grade an entire days lessons, worksheets, problem solving, and question answering only took about 3 hours in total.

[–]TXKeydet 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 6時間前 (3子コメント)

It's going to be hard to find a substantial number of people who were homeschooled, in support of homeschooling or otherwise.

The percentage of homeschooled children is still relatively small, despite numbers increasing significantly in recent decades. Unless there's a markedly higher birthrate among those who were homeschooled, it means that most of the children being homeschooled today do not have parents that were homeschooled themselves.

None of this is terribly surprising, nor is it necessarily a cause for concern. There used to be a degree of stigma around homeschooling, primarily based around socialization concerns, but that's declining. Resources, information and techniques mitigate much of these concerns, and the increasing number of adults who were homeschooled are generally demonstrating normal socialization.

Really, we're in the infancy of a big experiment. Nearly a hundred years after the consolidation of public education, our society has all but forgotten about homeschooling and the one-room schoolhouse. As people have gotten disillusioned with the results of the "progress" of our modern public school system, they're dusting off older, forgotten ways of doing things in the hope that it bears better fruit.

It's going to be a while yet before anyone can draw some significant conclusions from these experiments.

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The Dreaded Department of Education MANDATING that local school resources be made available to home-schooled is mitigating those concerns

Well, in many cases, parents who homeschool aren't getting property tax exemptions, so they're entitled to use whatever portion of the resources they choose, since they're paying for them as much as anyone else...

The mitigating factors I was referring to were more along the lines of local homeschool groups, formed with the benefit of the internet, that allow for group activities and lessons. This has become commonplace. Also, the ability for parents to share information and experiences with each other, well beyond their immediate community, to teach and learn from each other and refine their own programs.

Shove whatever brand of shit they want down their kids throat...

Sure, that's one way to look at it. Frankly, I don't personally like the religiously inspired brand of homeschooling, but fuck if it matters what I like when it comes to how parents wish to rear and educate their children.

Alternatively, with public school, you get what you get. You get teachers who are, for all intents and purposes, tenured. You get statist leanings. You get schools that cannot teach the use of contraception by state law. Yes, you can get some great, dedicated, inspiring teachers, but you also can get some fuckery.

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She bought her way into the position (maybe), she is on the record saying she wants to tear down public schools and place them with schools that QUOTE: "further god's kingdom" (on-the-record fact, she is a Reformed Christian and crazy af), and she knows absolutely nothing about the position she's taking, other than she might get to fund for-profit Reformed Christian schools (on-the-record fact, see confirmation hearing), and she is against giving for-profit christian schools the same oversight public schools receive (on-the-record fact, see confirmation hearing).

If you're a libertarian and see nothing wrong with this billionaire Reformed Christian fanatic spending tax money on for-profit christian schools with no oversight then ya might just be a plain jane religious conservative masquerading as something you don't understand.

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So you're saying inner city schools such as in NYC are doing just fine by the governments standard, and giving more choice to consumers overall would deprive only the poor?

You know a lot of religious schools are not in it for the profit and have tuition that may be manageable for lower and middle income earners.

Growing up I used to be friends with a latino kid who had 5 younger brothers. He had to share his bedroom with 4 of them, they had a much smaller house than our family of 5 altogether- but his family sent each and every one of their kids to private catholic school. Unfortunately because we went to different schools and his parents were strict and wary of American influences (don't blame them) we were only friends during the summer on a low cost summer swim team.

His mother worked from home while raising the youngest two. Sure his parents probably got a decent tax write off but they stretched it to make it work. They did have to pay property tax on their house and some state/federal tax towards public schooling.

While our public schools are actually fairly good, their parents, who put their children first, determined that specific school to be in the best interests for their children.

If they were able to get even some of that money back to spend on enriching their childrens lives, for more athletic or academic purposes or even advanced education, it would greatly enhance the lives of a 1st/2nd generation immigrant family.

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