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Prince William on Male Suicide #HeadsTogether (youtube.com)

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[–]LittleWeeRowYou Say Brexit - I Say? It Hasn't Began Yet! 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Only problem with that speech, it ended too soon.

[–]INeed3Quid 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (18子コメント)

When I was in my teens, I had serious depression and admitted to doctors and councillors that I felt suicidal. I never got any kind of diagnosis (you can't be suicidal as well as mentally healthy, it would completely break the definition), and the service I received from the NHS was very very very poor.

In my opinion there are 3 reasons why this is such a problem, all of them are quite far out of our control, which is why I think the public response is silence.

  • Mental Health research is literally 1000's of years behind Physical Health. I'm at uni doing electronic engineering at UoN which is 5th best in the UK for it atm, so I think its okay to say that I'm intelligent. I did psychology for 2 years at sixth form and honestly the majority of the stuff you're taught is completely retarded. There are people alive and at work who still believe the stuff that Sigmund Freud taught ffs. There are 5 "schools of thought" in psychology, 3 are retarded, 1 is completely inappropriate a lot of the time and the other is just basically Biology of the brain, which we're also behind on. In short Psychology hasn't left the medieval ages, we need a lot of research and we need a genius to go into it and be listened to.

  • Mental Health stigma. Pretend your real life friend tells you that he thinks he might be mentally ill, maybe something common but not very well known or slightly less sever, like Borderline Personality Disorder (which is now what I believe I was suffering from). You immediately think "what a fuckin weirdo" or "is this person safe to have around my kids", you think they're full of shit and doing it for attention, or something like "here we go again, for fucks sake". I'm a hippocrit in that I also do this, I see people depressed in the adult life and unsympathetically wonder why they didn't sort their head out in their late teens like I did. People suffering from mental illness know this is the reaction, so they either; keep it secret, ignore it, deny to themselves that they are mentally ill at all, or go ahead and tell people thus being ridiculed losing friends and respect in the process.

  • Male stigma and societies expectation for them to be less emotional. I cant talk about this one much cause I'm on of those people who just does what they feel like, so it doesnt really affect me and the stigmas I get are different. But I can't ever imagine a blokey bloke admitting that he is depressed and seeking treatment for it, yet he's just as likely to develop mental illness as anyone else.

Hey maybe I should have done psychology at university? Shame the educational testing for it is just a large memory test of pointless shit that nobody believes, and that I have a terrible memory making me a lot more science minded (science, that thing that psychology is supposed to be).

TLDR: we live in a time where psychology is shit and the population makes all people especially males, less likely to seek the shitty fucking treatment.

If you're mentally ill, find people who care and tell them about it. Hugs will do you better than the NHS. If you're worried that your brain is actually splitting in half (the observable cause of schizophrenia yet not part of the diagnostic criteria). Get an appointment with a mental health "professional" and punch them in the face, they might take you seriously that way.

[–]Whimsiguy [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Psychology at uni is completely different to A-level. I would argue that psychology A-level actually does a poor job of representing psychology at Univeristy. One example is as you pointed out psychology A-level has a huge focus on Freud and the psycho-dynamic view of psychology, at university Freud was covered in about 5 minutes in one lecture in my first year in a lecture on the history of psychology, and is much more science focused at the degree level.

In fact the dropout rate in psychology, I'd bet, based on everyone I've spoken to who dropped out who the same thing " it's too much like science/ too much statistics" reinforces my view that the A-level is poor representation of psychology at Uni. My memory is shit but that hasn't hindered me on my degree, as at that level it's about analysis of the studies, as opposed to how many studies and facts you remember.

However, despite this you are right in that psychology is still in it's infancy, and your other two points are spot on. I would also argue part of the problem is that most doctors aren't equipped with understanding of psychological issues. Psychiatry is only a specialisation after doing a medical degree and two years on the job. A lot of the time you see a g.p and say you have issues with your mental health they immediately diagonse you with depression/anxiety, and don't consider other options.

As a personal example, last year I diagnosed with ADHD, and part of the symptoms are low mood, low motivation, (and does have a high comorbidity with depression). Every time I went to a g.p. I was told I just had depression, and spent years on anti-depressants that did nothing for me and made me worse, causing me to struggle further on my degree. I was only able to get the diagnosis after switching GP and doing my own research into my symptoms, and punishing to be refereed so I could find out. Unfortunately my GP, while supportive, knows nothing about ADHD and I'm still waiting to see a specialist after being diagnosed last May.

Now take my story and add in other mental health issues, some more severe, for people who may not now what the real problem could be, combined with the lack of resources and we have a big issue. Add on top of that the fact that male victims of domestic and sexual violence tend not taken seriously, and do not have resources that cater for them. Take the Footballers abuse scandal that broke out not long ago, these men have waited till they're in the late years to feel able to talk about it, and even then, it fell on bernandos to provide assistance to these men, as there are not enough resources for men with these issues.

[–]IndoAryaA Friend of Hezbollah and Hamas [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Unfortunately my GP, while supportive, knows nothing about ADHD and I'm still waiting to see a specialist after being diagnosed last May.

Fucking hell...

[–]pinh33dheight supremacist 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Are you aware of Jordan Petersen? He does some good lectures on psychology, although metal illness is just a part of that.

[–]ComradeSomoBased Nige 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He often does talk about his methods and his experiences as a clinical psychologist, which is fascinating.

[–]INeed3Quid 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I find psychology interesting but don't really follow it, so I haven't heard of him no. I'm meant to be reading about electronics when I have spare time haha. I'll have a look though :)

[–]Kingfisherrr 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He would actually suggest that we abandoned some Freudian concepts too early - and that one issue modern psychology has is relying too heavily on appearing empirically valid at the expense of useful, intuitive theories that are difficult to prove.

It's really not as simple as reducing mental health to what we know physically and biologically - because we know very, very little about these things as they apply to the mind, personality and ambiguous concepts like wellbeing.

We need to reconfigure how we conceptualise psychology to try and improve its instrumental validity, rather than discarding working methods because there is a dearth of scientific evidence. You will never have enough evidence to support a complete model of psychology!

We're using whatever that model might be (our own psychology) to try and formulate it. Just one small example of the categorical issues involved.

[–]catpigeons 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The only reason to do psychology at uni is that the girls are outrageously attractive

[–]foiled_yet_againLiberal Democrat [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

the real study we should be doing is why girls, especially hot girls, are attracted to psychology like moths to a flame?

[–]Karma9999 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They're trying to work out wth is going on with themselves.

[–]PuppySlayer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's seen as more legitimate than Art/Fashion/Music/Drama/etc.

It still sorta counts as science despite being nowhere near as serious as STEM degrees.

It has more tangible career prospects than English/Politics/History/Geography/Philosphy/etc.

It's easier than Law/Languages.

It's a 'girly' subject

It's the perfect middle-of-the-road choice for girls who aren't keen on anything in particular, but still want the uni experience.

[–]ss0312Everyone is wrong about everything, including me [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Because, like, you can really get to know someone, like, when you understand how the brain works.

[–]your--wrong 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe that Psychology is both the most important area of study today, and also the one where we still have to make the biggest gains.

That said, the A-level is totally unrepresentative of the subject as it is alive today in serious institutions. I don't think there should even be an A-level in psychology.

When the majority of a subject can be answered with "We don't know, but the evidence for different theories is the following...", it isn't suitable for an A-level.

[–]Ed__Lib-Dem 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Mental Health research is literally 1000's of years behind Physical Health

Thats so terrifyingly true. Freud came literally two millennia after Galen.

[–]pairyhenis [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

"Galen was wrong way before Freud!"

[–]Ed__Lib-Dem [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's not hem being right or wrong that makes them relevant. Whats relevant is they were the first to realy try to apply a scientific method to those fields and then write it all down. Though Hippocrates might have been a more appropriate choice

[–]LetterbocksThey're all a bit rubbish aren't they? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I absolutely agree with your first point and don't disagree with points 2 and 3.

[–]INeed3Quid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I think my first point was my most important one. Maybe we need a complete restructure of the psychology in the education system? If it weren't a complete joke maybe more people would go into it and we could actually do some serious research in it.

I don't know much about it at degree level so I'm not one to suggest solutions. I feel like the area needs a lot of chopping and more emphasis on biology though from what I do know.

[–]TqvikingTrotsky Entryist 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I did take Psychology at University, I think it really depends on the calibre of university you go to and the type you specialise in.

On the whole though I agree, we're so far behind physical health.

It's worth noting however that psychology is in it's infancy compared to the field of medical health and the progression has been impressive.

Still lots of improvement to be made.

[–]Delta426 [スコア非表示]  (22子コメント)

I think in a lot of ways men feel like people don't care about their problems. Women also are naturally conditioned to shy away from 'losers', look at divorce rates after the man loses his job.

The solution isn't for men to be feminine, as the females in your life will resent you for it and see you as weak. Confide in your male friends if you need to. They will listen and understand. Take a pragmatic position on your problems, take action.

I do also feel like men have less of a safety net. We can't just 'settle' and use our genitals as payment for someone to look after us.

[–]survival_eng2Kinder, more relevant politics[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Men and women need to be raised as equal and taught to be fulfilled with themselves, not what they have or whether they have a S.O.

[–]Delta426 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

You can't undo millions of years of biology and conditioning. Women at some point in their lives will want to 'be taken care of' and a man will almost always be there to do so.

A lot of the time a man wanting to 'be taken care of' is seen as misogynistic.

[–]duckwantbread [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Women also are naturally conditioned to shy away from 'losers', look at divorce rates after the man loses his job.

I think you're stretching there, that seems much more related to financial insecurity causing tension in the marriage as the family struggles to make ends meet rather than anything to do with acting 'feminine'. Studies actually suggest being a macho man is a turn on for women when just looking for sex but is a massive turn off when looking for a husband as someone more in touch with their feelings is more likely to be a good father.

Obviously anecdotal but I've had more success confiding in women with my problems than men, most guys I've tried to confide in just get awkward and change the subject (not all though so I've probably just had bad luck there), and to be fair I feel a bit awkward when other guys try to talk feelings with me. I think it's dangerous to dissuade people from expressing their emotions to friends based on gender because they might end passing up on talking to someone who could really help them out. I'd encourage people to be open with any close friend they have and work out which ones are worth opening up to in the future from there.

[–]Delta426 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I actually agree with you in regards to the first paragraph. It depends which kind of man/life you want to be/live.

And whilst I don't agree with you in the second paragraph, it can be helpful to talk to anyone about your feelings as it makes you feel a bit better. I still think that confiding in your closest male friends would be a better idea.

コメントをもっと表示する (14 返事)

    [–]Fleeting_Infinity [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

    Am male. Contemplate suicide sometimes. Reluctant to get help because no one in my family ever acknowledges I even have depression, too shameful to admit how sick I am.

    Can't speak for all men but I think stigmatisation and poor funding for mental health services play a large part.

    [–]IndoAryaA Friend of Hezbollah and Hamas [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Never thought of going private? Far better experience.

    [–]IcecreamMuffin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Never thought of going private? Far better experience.

    It's not really affordable for lots of people. I'm paying nearly £300/month for a private therapist. Probably the most worthwhile thing I do with my paycheck, but not everyone is fortunate to have this option.

    [–]yetieaterpolitical terra nullius [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Have you spoken to your GP? I would certainly say getting an assessment would be a good step. You might be surprised how much help treatment is.

    Put it this way, it'd be really stupid to not go to the docs if you broke your leg. If your brain is fucked up, it's still stupid to not try and get help.

    [–]j0ydivisi0nLenin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Same. My family don't think depression is a real thing. I just pretend i'm fine and go along with university etc. Deep down I don't think i'm good enough and just hate myself. Barely sleep either.

    コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

      [–]im_noided_tbhworking class millennial/non-partisan/Salt Right 🇽🇪 [スコア非表示]  (48子コメント)

      Please stop telling Men to act like women. Sorry PC crowd, more emotional.

      This is a different issue and Men don't go crying into ice-cream putting sad Facebook status.

      We need to promote being strong and self confidence to tackle ones own issues, whilst getting rid of the stigma that going to seek a professional/talking to a mate is counter to that, it should be part of the helping process and I think we are making good ground.

      However: "Just cry men you need to be emotional" ain't gonna fucking cut it for some of us, we keep getting told this and yet more Men keep dying.

      Personally I've never cried since I lost my dad when I was a teenager, I've been through some bad patches (heavy drinking, depression, dropped out of uni etc) and instead of carrying on being drippy I made a sensible list of things I wanted to achieve (really small stuff like joining a gym, fixing sleeping patterns), started working out, eating well, doing what I enjoy, then everything started getting better! I enjoyed work, my friends, going out and being alive again. It's about having the confidence to do things for a lot of people.

      I have no doubt that our obese, bad diet ridden society is linked to this too in some way, eating shit bad food and fizzy drinks really makes you feel like shit. Healthy body is a great step to a healthy mind imo.

      In short I feel some of peoples modern day "depression" comes from bad lifestyles or it makes it considerably worse.

      [–]MimesAreShitesocial democrat | fuck fptp [スコア非表示]  (37子コメント)

      Please stop telling Men to act like women

      the fact that you see people openly expressing emotions as feminine is kinda the problem

      [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (24子コメント)

      The big issue is that you actually just tell men to act more like women do now, instead of actually trying to solve problems men have.

      It's just empty verbiage. Any discussion of divorce reform or education discrimination against men, rape hoax or otherwise is shut down. It's disgusting.

      [–]Stenanosaurus [スコア非表示]  (23子コメント)

      DUDE. The problem of why these issues exist is because men feel they have nobody to talk to about issues and therefore keep it to themselves. Now here you are saying that it's bad to 'act more like women' and therefore further cementing that talking about issues and expressing emotions is feminine and bad. You are the toxic masculinity talked about.

      [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (21子コメント)

      And now men are talking about women's special privileges and feminists slander men. Indeed you just straight up told me to fuck off.

      Men need solutions, not more outbursts of emotion that feminists bully men for having anyway.

      [–]Stenanosaurus [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

      I'm slandering you actually.

      Men need solutions, not more outbursts of emotion

      You are the cancer on mens issues. You are the cancer.

      [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

      See? She insults a man, admits it too and then continues to deny that what men need are solutions to discrimination, not more outbursts of emotion that feminists bully men for having anyway.

      [–]le_munky_face [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Blaming men for male suicide rates. Disgusting. It is you that is the cancer.

      [–]andyrocks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      You are the cancer on mens issues. You are the cancer.

      You really are the embodiment of the problem.

      コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

        [–]lazytoxer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Not really. I think the problem is that we blame men for not behaving in a way that fits services or our preconceptions concerning mental health, the actual problem might be that the services and preconceptions aren't appropriate.

        [–]im_noided_tbhworking class millennial/non-partisan/Salt Right 🇽🇪 [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

        Openly expressing emotions in private to someone isn't feminine and never has been.

        [–]MimesAreShitesocial democrat | fuck fptp [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

        well that's all people are saying, isn't it? that it's healthy to be emotionally open.

        [–]im_noided_tbhworking class millennial/non-partisan/Salt Right 🇽🇪 [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

        For some people it is, being "emotionally open" in a private conversation doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be strong either, yet no one says this.

        [–]Stenanosaurus [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

        Do you see being 'emotionally open' and 'strong' as mutually exclusive.

        [–]im_noided_tbhworking class millennial/non-partisan/Salt Right 🇽🇪 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

        Yes? Talking about feelings in private/to a professional isn't weak?

        Are you implying that it is?

        [–]MimesAreShitesocial democrat | fuck fptp [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        i think the problem is that strength is often conflated with stoicism, and so wording it that way could cause more harm that good

        [–]IndoAryaA Friend of Hezbollah and Hamas [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        I have no doubt that our obese, bad diet ridden society is linked to this too in some way, eating shit bad food and fizzy drinks really makes you feel like shit. Healthy body is a great step to a healthy mind imo.

        Omega-3. Watch for all those interested - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZPTYLdLceM

        Wanna add a few years to your life? Stick to 5-a-day religiously, intake water regularly and take in a decent amount of Omega 3 (Ultra Omega-3 is really good, pricey though) every day. 3 little things every day that will add a good 4-5+ years to your life (provided nothing unexpected occurs).

        [–]Stenanosaurus [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

        This is an example of toxic masculinity.

        [–]im_noided_tbhworking class millennial/non-partisan/Salt Right 🇽🇪 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

        You're an example of a shitfaced feminist blinded by ideology who won't actually listen to Men unless they agree with you, who doesn't want to actually help them with their problems, only to demonise people who want to be "strong" when being "strong" is a good thing for a lot of Men.

        If you think telling Men that being strong is good, while being open about mental health then you just hate masculinity, plain and simple.

        [–]Stenanosaurus [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

        I'm going to demonise anyone who thinks 'being strong' means hiding your emotions and never talking about issues with other men or women.

        [–]im_noided_tbhworking class millennial/non-partisan/Salt Right 🇽🇪 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

        Hiding your emotions in day to day life, trying to keep it together, having confidence in yourself to speak openly in private to people is the definition of a strong man who wants to better himself.

        Not only are men with mental health issues treat like shit they get told by people like you that crying is the key to all lifes issues.

        [–]Stenanosaurus [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

        You haven't answered my question yet.

        [–]im_noided_tbhworking class millennial/non-partisan/Salt Right 🇽🇪 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        XD

        [–]VanillaStrawberry [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Well what kind solution do you actually want? There's nothing weak about being emotionally open. If you actually think that then you're one of those contributing to the problem.

        [–]PuppySlayer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        What's an example of non-toxic masculinity?

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]YouOnVaporWave -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (185子コメント)

          I've commented this before when the topic of male suicide came up.

          There's a constant talk about trying to solve male suicide like it's the illness, when really it's the symptom.

          I mean let's look at why British males are depressed:

          • No chance of owning a home.
          • Deomonised by the media, forced to attend classes anti rape classes at university because all men are rapists.
          • No refuges for men like there are for women.
          • Divorce courts set up in such a way that no one in their right mind would get married as your ex wife can clear you out and take everything you ever loved. (It doesn't even stop there, a court ruled recently that a man was responsible for his ex-wife's debts YEARS after their divorce )link
          • Politicians and parties that don't represent us in power making decisions we don't want.

          [–]INeed3Quid 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (83子コメント)

          Im in my 3rd year of university in the UK and was never made to attend an anti-rape lecture. Wasn't in school college or sixth form either, this is the first time I've ever even heard of them.

          In my opinion, male suicide is to do with the stigma of mental illness and societies expectations for men to be emotionless resulting in them being less likely to seek help.

          [–]RageousTIAMA Liberal Elite AMA 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (78子コメント)

          Absolutely. Its because there is a perceived social pressure to 'be a man' and not to seek help with your problems, and to keep your emotions to yourself. (Or at least that's what got me close, I suppose others will have other experiences).

          [–]LetterbocksThey're all a bit rubbish aren't they? 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (77子コメント)

          Personally I think blaming mens MH problems on 'if only men were more like women' is both a cop out and utter bollocks. Just my personal experience.

          [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (32子コメント)

          I missed my re-induction to university after my degree, but I heard from a friend that they pushing that yes means yes garbage, where jilted girls can screw over guys in the court of public opinion via guilty until proven innocent.

          Edit:

          Among the other things that contribute ultimately to depression among men, these include:

          • A culture of fear, hatred and marginalisation propagated widely against men.

          • Divorce courts that have simply switched out the old-time fact that men had most of the resources to women 'deserving' whatever huge payout they get, meaning that women's net wealth actually rises from divorce.

          • A society that pushes hate phrases like 'Toxic Masculinity', 'If

          • An education system that penalises and drugs boys in vast numbers for not being girls.

          • A political system that genuinely believes that any actual step forward for men that strips women of their special advantages is a step backward.

          • An elitist treatment of men, where the vast crowd of middling, average men are considered sub-par, whilst women child rapists (as the many scandals involving female teachers attest), spousal abusers and crass denouncers constantly seem to get backup from the media, the courts or society.

          [–]GrandeMentecapto [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

          What's "garbage" about "yes means yes"?

          [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

          where jilted girls can screw over guys in the court of public opinion via guilty until proven innocent.

          [–]GrandeMentecapto [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          That's just not what yes means yes is. And it's also not true

          [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          That's what it amounts to in the case of Rape Hoaxes on campus.

          [–]LetterbocksThey're all a bit rubbish aren't they? 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (25子コメント)

          I'm sure there are elements of that but I don't really think that's relevant to male MH either.

          [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (24子コメント)

          Yes it is. A society that hates men depresses them

          [–]honeydot0.63, -1.18 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (23子コメント)

          For goodness sake. British society does not hate men. Get a grip.

          [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (22子コメント)

          Yes it does. The divorce courts and false accusations of pedophilia against men do show that large parts of British society really does hate men.

          It considers men on the whole like an abusive master might consider a pet dog he likes to kick.

          Edit: My response to honeydot

          That's an extreme false equivalence, because the whole of society thinks those rapists are scum. Whereas the divorce courts and hoax accusations are backed by a society that wants to implicate men or doesn't really care about their unjust suffering.

          Oh, and no surprise that you happen to ignore that some of those men rape men.

          NB: His response? Just disregarded me and called me a red-piller.

          [–]honeydot0.63, -1.18 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (21子コメント)

          By that leap of logic, since more than 5000 men a year are found guilty of rape in the UK, then large parts of British male society really do hate women and are rapists. Not exactly a fair conclusion, is it.

          [–]INeed3Quid [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          Okay I'm gonna say what everyone's thinking but nobody wants to say.

          Oxford and Cambridge have worldwide attention as universities, so obviously they get a lot of the brightest foreign students from all over the world..

          Obviously in the UK we expect anyone old enough to know what sex is to also understand the concept of consent, this is why we don't have "yes means yes" lectures in compulsory school.

          Maybe Oxford and Cambridge have been having cultural issues which has caused them both to make the lecture compulsory?

          [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Nothing in Oxford or Cambridge can excuse such a massive leap backwards.

          [–]alibixmuscular liberal 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (39子コメント)

          'if only men were more like women'

          Who is saying that? Things aren't so black and white. You're part of the problem.

          [–]honeydot0.63, -1.18 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (38子コメント)

          It seems he is referring to men acting more like women by expressing their emotions and being open about mental health problems rather than bottling them up. That's not "acting like women", that's just breaking out from stereotypes about how men should behave (strong, silent, stoic etc).

          [–]hollowcrown51Unpatriotic Bremoaner | Blairite Scum 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (37子コメント)

          He is exactly the reason men don't speak out. Because emotional openness and vulnerability is seen as a feminine thing, instead of just a human thing.

          [–]honeydot0.63, -1.18 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (36子コメント)

          Of course. In the same vein, "don't be a pussy" i.e. don't be female, because being feminine is a BAD THING for guys.

          It's saddening that the people making the most fuss here are the ones who are purely selfish and in fact actively contribute to the culture they allegedly despise.

          [–]hollowcrown51Unpatriotic Bremoaner | Blairite Scum 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (29子コメント)

          Yeah it's the same old Brexit lot on here who have really backwards opinions on mental health and are trying to push their own personal views on gender politics and men without any informed knowledge on the issues whatsoever.

          [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (28子コメント)

          All three of you are are the exact problem with modern feminism. Yes, that includes you /u/honeydot and /u/alibix.

          Instead of offering solutions to men's problems, such as divorce reform, education discrimination, workplace discrimination, rape hoax or socialized misandry in culture, you simply argue that the solution is to make men feel more.

          You're not actually making their lives better. You're just refusing to deal with the problems feminism and society at large caused or perpetuates and then saying all men need to do is stew more openly on their misery.

          It's toxic and harmful. It doesn't help men. It simply disregards their problems because they don't happen to act more like women. And let's not forget /u/honeydot and /u/hollowcrown51, you're both attacking me for saying my feelings on the matter.

          You both are humiliating, disregarding and insulting a man for making known his feelings. Telling men to open up more without doing anything to solve men's rights issues will simply cause more harm.

          [–]LetterbocksThey're all a bit rubbish aren't they? [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

          Pretty judgemental tbh m8. Worldwide men talk less than women. It's more Comex than saying "just open up you neanderthals"

          [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          You see what I mean now, right? All men that actually say it's about more than just opening up are simply red pillers according to honeydot.

          Men are simply to be more like women are now. That's their solution. There is no discussion of discrimination against men.

          [–]honeydot0.63, -1.18 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

          Yes, I am going to be judgemental about red pill narcissists who post on this subreddit. It is not a judgement on the entire male population, nor did I call anybody a neanderthal. Also tf is Comex.

          [–]NotSoBlue_"chronic economic uncertainty" -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          What do you think the solution is?

          [–]LetterbocksThey're all a bit rubbish aren't they? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I think the best solutions involve creating opportunities for self empowerment and guidance throughout that process along with research into the neurology/biology underlying MH issues. Unfortunately that shit is expensive.

          [–]NotSoBlue_"chronic economic uncertainty" 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Sounds like a complicated and expensive way to avoid taking about your worries and concerns.

          [–]LetterbocksThey're all a bit rubbish aren't they? [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I'm sure you have it all figured out.

          [–]andrew2209Anti-racist cultural Marxist vegetables cant do anything 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Im in my 3rd year of university in the UK and was never made to attend an anti-rape lecture

          The only one vaguely like that I attended was mandatory for both genders and bundled in with talks on other things, like drugs and alcohol

          [–]XEV4NXTotal and unapologetic remainian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm going to go with "All of the above".

          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

            [–]HashPramI've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            And now let's look at the actual reasons men are depressed:

            Source 1
            Source 2
            Source 3

            • Trauma in early childhood
            • Stress
            • Difficulties in long-term relationships / separation / divorce
            • Impotence
            • Newly becoming a father
            • Unemployment / Retirement
            • Heavy drinking

            I know it's tempting to try and tie depression into some current political narrative, but if you really want to understand depression then - like any phenomenon you're serious about understanding - read as much well-researched scientific information as you can and use that to form your opinion. Depression's an illness, not a bloody political football.

            Right - now I've got that off my chest:

            • If you think you are depressed seek professional help.
            • If you think someone you know is depressed urge them to seek professional help.

            I left it 30-odd years before I to saw anyone about the depression that had periodically crippled me since I was 15 and I can't begin to describe the feeling of relief I had when I realised there was something that could be done about it and I didn't have to spend weeks thinking about driving my car off a cliff, or going to sleep and just not waking up.

            If you're depressed you're ill. If you're ill - go get some help, yeah?

            [–]Gisschace 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Thank you, I had a family member kill himself just before Christmas in his mid thirties, prime male kill yourself age/time apparently. He faced none of the issues in the original comment but many of the above.

            To see people use male suicide to try and push their own agenda, and politicise his death is disgusting (and does nothing to solve the issue).

            [–]USOutpost31 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

            OP was making a comment about society instead of politics. Of course, there is a political dimension to everything.

            OP's points directly contribute to your points 2, 3, 5, and 6. They also contribute to the other points you made.

            Those points are symptoms of a greater problem, which Psychologists and Public Health officials are not going to solve. They've been 'solving' that problem for decades. It's not like this is the first time Suicide has become a popular subject.

            Your statement is frankly behind what /u/YouOnVaporWave already addressed.

            Because your 'treatment' has already been addressed, and male suicide rates remain shockingly high, clearly there are underlying problems. I think OP addressed them nicely.

            No amount of therapy or medication is going to redress the near-complete social impotence many men face. You are not going to drug someone into satisfactory acceptance of the points /u/YouOnVaporWave made. It's been tried, and high suicide rates persist.

            [–]cimarafa [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            Except there are countries where men (and indeed everyone) have it 1000x worse than the UK with much lower suicide rates so it can't be economic or social condition.

            [–]USOutpost31 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            If it's really that bad, no one is keeping track of suicide statistics. Also, short life spans mean that people are lasting long enough to get depressed. Further, they will start organized violence in appalling conditions, which is a known social factor in war.

            Lastly, I've seen more than one story about Syrian/North African refugees killing themselves, sometimes in view of people. But no one is making a count of that.

            [–]SillySturridge 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (42子コメント)

            I'll agree on certain things - others not so much.

            'Deomonised by the media, forced to attend classes anti rape classes at university because all men are rapists.'

            I and all my friends definately did not have to go to anti-rape classes at University. And if you went to one and are severely depressed it wasn't the fault of one solitary class a year.

            'No refuges for men like there are for women.'

            Googling 'men suicide hotline' gets five different hits for support groups in the first six results. If people don't think there are places to go they're not looking. And I speak as one of those mentally depressed men.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (41子コメント)

            The classes exist at certain universities like oxford And York

            [–]SillySturridge 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (34子コメント)

            Indeed, I looked it up. But like I said, if you're severely depressed to the point of suicide then it isn't the fault of one anti-rape class.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (33子コメント)

            It's one of the many things that hammers down on males and builds their depression though.

            [–]ss0312Everyone is wrong about everything, including me 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Seems more like you're trying to shoehorn it in to further a political viewpoint/agenda.

            [–]SillySturridge 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (31子コメント)

            I can think of lots of factors that will have a far bigger impact on a person in depression, such as first and foremost, a chemical imbalance, and then factors which move around that.

            Another being for example the fact that men are more likely to be stoic about their inner misery, telling no-one, or hiding away untill it consumes them, never seeking out the help they need even when it is readily available because that's what depression does - it removes rationality more and more from the equation. Another being home life or social life, fear of the future, lacking a place in society, terrible family life, previous, almost life-defining trauma. And of course life, and how grey and un-special it can be, after years of watching special people on TV.

            Many different things of which a one hour anti-rape session, even if you were to react badly to it, is a bare drop in the ocean. Men, people even, don't feel depression because the media is demonising their sex or because of an anti-rape class. They're depressed because they believe personally that they are worthless or a drag on the world, often against all logic or rationality.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (30子コメント)

            they believe personally that they are worthless or a drag on the world

            And an hour long class about how all men are rapists isn't going to help is it?

            [–]SillySturridge 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (29子コメント)

            Riz tweeted: "Men who are inclined to assault women won't suddenly change their minds after attending a class".

            Hareem Ghani, a womens' officer at the NUS told The Independent: "The reality is far from this.

            "Instead, consent sessions work to debunk myths surrounding rape, deconstruct the impact of hyper-masculinity on all genders, and push students not to shame peers for their sexual preferences or sexual activity

            From the article you linked me. It isn't a class on all men being rapists.

            'And an hour long class about how all men are rapists isn't going to help is it?'

            Nor is alcohol, or lectures, or exams, or socialising, or pressures of life, or living alone, or watching your favourite football team lose, or having to do dishes, or coursework, or just not wanting to do anything. Among the vast list of other things that can and do negatively affect a depressed persons life a one hour long session just doesn't fucking matter.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (28子コメント)

            Non of those points are an indication that society thinks you're a bad person though. While this "hour long session" is indicative of a much larger agenda.

            [–]SillySturridge 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (27子コメント)

            It's a pretty badly carried out agenda if it's one session in your entire three years at University. You'd expect them to lay it on thick. Unless one hour about rape myths in three years is just too much to stomach?

            Like I've said, depression isn't about society. Depression is about the person themselves - irrationalities caused by imbalance.

            [–]j-t-f-76 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Neither article says anything about those consent classes being male specific, and they certainly aren't compulsory as you said above. I don't know why you would object to these classes existing, when people can simply choose not to go, and they're open to anybody?

            I think consent classes are an excellent thing (maybe as part of sex ed, or PGCE or general studies or something), but at a far younger age and for everyone. I think you're just clutching at straws here.

            Also listing 'politicians and parties that don't represent us in power making decisions we don't want' as a reason for male suicide is nonsensical. How is it in any way male specific? Isn't that just a universal problem, and even to some extent just how things have always been for everyone?

            I don't think your post above goes anywhere near explaining the core reasons why men are more likely to kill themselves than women, which are more to do with poor or non-existent emotional communication between men. (Though that's not of course the only reason)

            [–]YouOnVaporWave -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            they certainly aren't compulsory

            Literally in the headline.

            [–]j-t-f-76 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Literally in the headline.

            Literally doesn't make it true. Also, literally in the article: "We don't follow up on non-attendance and we also stress that participants are welcome to leave at any time."

            Try harder.

            [–]flusskrebsTrashcan of Ideology 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            They're not compulsory. The attendance for my 'compulsory' consent class at Oxford was probably around 8/15. No repercussions for those who didn't attend. You just looked like a bit of a dickhead if you were one of those who refused to go, rather than somebody suffering from a massive hangover.

            And to add, attendance was probably 50:50 male female and led by one male and one female student. Definitely wasn't over the top finger pointing at men, certainly wouldn't contribute to make depression.

            [–]bennzo1238 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Literally the second line

            Every first-year was expected to go to the sessions at York University, although officials said that attendance had not been compulsory.

            [–]bennzo1238 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            That article is from October 2016. The first time they hosted such a class. Nor was the class compulsory. Our male suicide problem has been with us for decades, not since October.

            [–]hollowcrown51Unpatriotic Bremoaner | Blairite Scum 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (11子コメント)

            You're bringing up a bunch of political points when the main problems are social and emotional.

            Points 1, 2 and 5 are unrelated to this. Point 4 is only applicable to men who were married.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

            Point 4 is only applicable to men who were married

            Or anyone that wants to be.

            [–]hollowcrown51Unpatriotic Bremoaner | Blairite Scum 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (9子コメント)

            Mate when young men in their teens and twenties get depression and anxiety it's not because they're thinking about how the divorce courts are going to fuck them over if they eventually get to the stage of marriage.

            Get some perspective. It's an applicable case in some cases but you've got to have a very misinformed view of the causes of depression if you think that's one of the major causes of them.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

            One of the reasons that men feel depressed is because people like you deny their legitimate concerns.

            [–]hollowcrown51Unpatriotic Bremoaner | Blairite Scum 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (7子コメント)

            I am not denying anyone's concerns. I'm saying you are bringing up a bunch of politicised points and trying to link them to a physical/mental affliction. You're being disingenuous and trying to push your own political agenda under the guise of it helping men. Your comments in this thread have clearly shown this.

            [–]HorriBliss 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I'm 22 and it doesn't make me depressed or anything but there's a constant mild anxiety of: 'nobody will ever love you and once your family did you might as well kill yourself' going on in the background.'

            Maybe he's trying to say the fear of being loved is the issue (rather than divorce courts or whatnot).

            [–]hollowcrown51Unpatriotic Bremoaner | Blairite Scum 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yeah I get that too but it's not something that is unique to men at all, that's just the state of young people in the UK.

            The specific problem for men is lack of a support network and emphasis on hyper-masculine men being scared to ask for support because of fear they'll look week.

            I just don't like OPs politicised points. Reeks of Red Pill to me. Shouldn't use a serious health issue as something to score points against a couple of student unions.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            They certainly make me sad. Therefore I'd say they're valid points.

            [–]hollowcrown51Unpatriotic Bremoaner | Blairite Scum 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Sadness is not depression.

            [–]MultipleBrexitWoundsThomas the Tankie Engine: Stalin did nothing wrong [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

            If a persistent thing keeps people in a state of sadness, they cause depression.

            [–]Anyales#justiceforBowlingGreen 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (15子コメント)

            Depression is an illness not a symptom please stop linking MRA shit with depression it is at best fundamentally unhelpful and at worst actively harmful.

            Listing a load of bullshit faux causes actually belittles people suffering with depression and reinforces negative stereotypes.

            [–]alibixmuscular liberal 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (20子コメント)

            Demonised by the media

            Hyperbole much?

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (11子コメント)

            Have a look at any guardian opinion section on "rape culture".

            [–]alibixmuscular liberal 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (9子コメント)

            This actual study in done says something similar but different that I think is definitely more accurate.

            New research by the Black Dog Institute has identified, for the first time, the consistent risk factors in male suicide, which equates to 80% of all suicides in Australia. They are:

            • A period of disrupted or depressed mood
            • Unhelpful conceptions of masculinity - the 'tough Aussie bloke' stereotype in particular
            • Social isolation
            • At least one personal stressor, like unemployment or relationship breakdown.
            • Researchers conducted interviews and focus groups with 35 men who had survived suicide attempts, alongside forty-seven family and friends of male suicide survivors.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (8子コメント)

            No inclusion of unfair divorce courts unless they imply that with "relationship breakdown".

            42% of marriages end in divorce in the UK, which is basically a coin flip.

            So if you want to get married, flip a coin, that's how likely your wife is to take everything you own and loved and ruin your life forever.

            Divorce courts are heavily biased in favour of women.

            Here's a case in the US where a man was sent to prison because the judge set his alimony payments higher than his income link and another

            [–]alibixmuscular liberal 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Also, have you considered that the reason divorce courts are so biased is because of the stereotypes of masculinity put on men and also the stereotypes put on women?

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yes, this is one of the main reasons. The opinion is that men will "always land on their feet" so it's ok to take everything they own, their house and their kids away from them because "ehhh they'll be ok".

            [–]andrew2209Anti-racist cultural Marxist vegetables cant do anything 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            The main reason why men are perceived to be screwed in divorce is the mother often takes the most time out of work to raise the child, thus being seen as a primary caregiver. In the event that a perfect 50:50 custody split isn't possible, the primary caregiver is often favoured (up to a certain age, above 11 I think it makes no difference). Courts also don't like children being forced to move home so the home normally goes to the primary caregiver (although I think in some cases if it is sold the assets from the sale are split 50:50)

            I've seen cases from both sides where the father or the mother both feel hard done by.

            [–]alibixmuscular liberal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I'm pretty sure they do but anyway I was talking about your demonisation of men by the media point.

            [–]honeydot0.63, -1.18 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            If you have such a strong argument, why are you cherrypicking US examples rather than offering some from the UK?

            [–]YouOnVaporWave 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Have a look at this one her smile says it all.

            The guy, handed over £230,000 to her during the end of the divoce and agreed to pay £1,100 a month. That in itself is wrong.

            13 years later a judge has ordered him to increase payments by £300 extra because his ex wife has lost all her money with poor financial investments.

            Basically the guy is having to support his ex wife for life.

            [–]honeydot0.63, -1.18 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            And if the woman in the relationship were the breadwinner while the man was a stay at home parent, the roles would be reversed.

            None of this has anything to do with male suicide. Stop trying to further your red pill agenda.

            [–]Munchausen-By-ProxyNevergreen [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            And if the woman in the relationship were the breadwinner while the man was a stay at home parent, the roles would be reversed.

            But it's not usually women impacted like this, is it?

            None of this has anything to do with male suicide.

            If something impacts men more, and has an effect on suicide rates, it is relevant.

            Stop trying to further your red pill agenda.

            There's nothing "red pill" about the link between economic disturbance and male suicide, it's an established fact backed up by research dating from the 1950s onwards.

            By seeking to associate this information with the "red pill" you are pushing an agenda, specifically that we should not look at how the legal system treats men, presumably because doing so would suggest men aren't as universally privileged as your shitty ideology requires them to be.

            [–]alibixmuscular liberal 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Some articles talking about language regarding women is demonising all men?

            [–]sugarrayrob 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

            In what way?

            [–]alibixmuscular liberal 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

            In what way is it not hyperbole?
            I don't feel demonized.

            [–]HorriBliss -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Men are nearly always, without a doubt, in headlines as rapists, paedophiles, sexual offenders, and domestic abusers. Sure the male:female ratio is a lot higher but people would sooner bring up Dr. Dre or Sean Penn beating a reporter/Madonna (reespectively), and joke about Emma Roberts beating her boyfriend up, for example.

            Just last week on /r/soccer a footballer was reported as having beat his girlfriend to the point of her needing a hospital visit. All the comments from people who didn't read the article were about how bad of a person he was. It emerges she wasn't hospitalised, but rather, just visited the hospital to treat minor facial injuries associated with domestic abuse... the exact same reason why her boyfriend visited hospital, too, because of the facial injuries she incurred on him. Yet, most people were chastising the fella, and hardly anyone was chastising her.

            [–]alibixmuscular liberal 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Because criminals are men means that they are demonised? Should the media stop or reduce reporting of male crimes? Would you agree to the same thing for Muslim people?

            [–]survival_eng2Kinder, more relevant politics[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Your point is a bit off base because many-a-time, female criminals are let off lightly.

            Perhaps this thread shouldn't veer off into different directions.

            [–]alibixmuscular liberal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            But we're talking about male suicide and the commentor implies that media coverage of male crimes contributes to male suicide - nothing to do with sentences of female criminals.

            [–]survival_eng2Kinder, more relevant politics[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            The earlier comment includes this:

            ...people would sooner bring up Dr. Dre or Sean Penn beating a reporter/Madonna (respectively), and joke about Emma Roberts beating her boyfriend up, for example.

            As well as the case were the soccer player and his gf both went hospital for domestic abuse injuried yet

            All the comments from people who didn't read the article were about how bad of a person he was.

            [–]MimesAreShitesocial democrat | fuck fptp [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            people on reddit in "jump to conclusions" shock. hardly indicative of a society-wide issue

            [–]cimarafa [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            Politicians and parties that don't represent us in power making decisions we don't want.

            It seems very strange that a bunch of parties, mostly led by men, formed of MPs, who are overwhelmingly men, informed by think tanks and policy theorists, who are also almost all men at senior levels, would somehow be deeply anti-male.

            [–]YouOnVaporWave [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Didn't say it's anti-male. But it is one reason males feel like checking out of society.

            [–]6500s 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            The majority of these are your pet political points (most of which do have validity), but it has been shown issues like loneliness, isolation, stress, abuse or trauma are the main causes of depression in both men and women.

            [–]mynameisfredditDrinks at the con club, votes UKIP 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (60子コメント)

            Our suicide rate is fairly low compared to the rest of Europe.

            https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/suicides-europe.jpg

            [–]XEV4NXTotal and unapologetic remainian 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (56子コメント)

            But our male suicide rate is drastically higher than female. There is undeniably an issue here with men killing themselves.

            [–]yetieaterpolitical terra nullius [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

            Men tend to use violent methods, so have less chance of trying but failing, If I remember correctly.

            [–]I_AM_A_PAID_SHILL [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

            but that might be a deliberate choice, with men really meaning to kill themselves and women not (not all obviously, just accounting for some of the difference)

            if so we can't just write it off as "men are just better at it"

            [–]duckwantbread [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            There's also the issue that men are more likely to have drunk alcohol before a suicide attempt, which makes it less likely your brain will suddenly think 'why am i doing this', I'm not sure what the approach to this should be but it does indicate there might need to be a different approach to dealing with suicidal males.

            [–]yetieaterpolitical terra nullius [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Agreed, alcohol also dulls pain, so you won't have the 'oh shit that hurt' deterrent to the same degree.

            it does indicate there might need to be a different approach to dealing with suicidal males.

            Catching them before they get to that point would be favorite, to be flippant, but yeah, it's a tough problem. In some cases public health campaigning might help. More GPs having ability for referral to appropriate mental health care would help some others. Maybe better on-the-job mental health care would be helpful to many men, and similar for those at jobcentre etc.

            There's a real problem getting people to recognise that they're ill even.

            [–]doggatilla [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

            Men are just 'better' at suicide than women. Women usually fail at it. I think the stats last time I looked suggested that more women try to commit suicide, but most fail.

            At the end of the day though, the world today is quite heavily stacked against men. That needs fixing. I don't think "mental health" is much to do with it. Divorce law, parental rights, helping homeless (men are at the bottom of the list). etc etc

            Not to mention the fact that if you're a women, you can always fall back on "Find a rich husband to support you in return for sex". Men don't have that luxury.

            [–]duckwantbread [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Not to mention the fact that if you're a women, you can always fall back on "Find a rich husband to support you in return for sex". Men don't have that luxury.

            That doesn't make sense, there isn't an infinite supply of rich guys (not to mention a lot would be after common interests etc in a wife not just looks, if you are an attractive guy you can afford to be picky and look for personality along with beauty) you'd have to be in the top percentile of attractiveness to even have a shot at doing that. Not to mention rich guys generally don't hang out in the same crowds as normal girls I know a couple of rich guys at work and they generally want to date girls from a similar background to them since they can relate more. Sure some girls might move in the right circles to have the opportunity but they're in the minority.

            コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

              [–]SucculentMeal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I am I missing something or is it safe to say that warm weather decreases suicide risk?

              I am guessing SAD could be the final straw for a lot people.

              コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                [–]Foos47DCCTraditional Neoconservative:(-2.63, 3.69) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                All HEADS together guys

                [–]GoGoGo_PowerRanger94 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                You know I think the fact that we are living in a culture(as we do in Britain/the West) of stigma, labelling of inferiority/incompetence etc. A society conditioned to and to value superficial Social Darwinist perfection in the extreme etc.. which is bound to make those who don't match up feel alienated and depressed. It doesn't help fundamentally western culture, our societies view men as disposable. Nobody cares about men(unless they're in that top 10-20℅.. ie if your not attractive, not good looking, or if your not tall or well hung or buff/in-shape.. Your not in the top 10-20℅ etc. Its those guys who are socially privileged, and are viewed as worthwhile human beings with an intrinsic value and are viewed as the height of male sexuality n masculinity with all the positives that comes with that, we care about those men. Imo when it comes to a male's mental health stuff like that, ones relationship, sex and love(and being able to have a fulfilling sex life. Not being able to fulfil this basic, human need is hugely damaging) and validation from society is very important, all that feeds into that etc. As social creatures its hardwired into us). But in general nobody gives a shit about men. I mean again just look at the (as noted) suicide rates: Waaaay more men kill themselves yet there's no outrage, its not talked about/not taken seriously or barely achknowleged by the media(except to be mocked possibly, its all seen as a big joke). But if it was the other way round n it was women killing themselves at such a high rate you can guarantee it'd be mentioned alot, it'd called a 'national tragedy', there'd be calls for politicians to do something, there'd be awareness campaigns in the media, support networks etc...but as its men we don't care :/. Just like with male body image issues. As a 5'6, small penis guy I can't stand this double standard. Its very real to me.

                See I think its such an ignorant, outdated assumption.. It's a total myth perpetuated by the 'body acceptance' movement, pop culture and third wave femenists that men are not under ever more pressure. (Im gonna focus on) pressures to conform to stereotypes of physical prowess, masculinity and attractiveness. They are, and it is getting more so with time. Men have alot of pressure & body image issues too(just look at the rampant heightism and the stigma, exclusion n mockery, contempt of short men or look at the widespread small penis stigma, the exclusion and mockery, the almost sub human contempt such men are held in etc. Or look at the huge rise in steroid use, which is a ticking time bomb healthwise). And unlike women.. often the things men are pressured on/judged on can't be changed(ie height n penis size). Those two factors are the biggest determing of a guy's desirability and masculinity). Men have to go to much greater lengths to be desirable too. See things are changing, whereas men in the past were objectified for what job they did or how much money they had, now they are also objectified for how they look. How big(or not) thier cock is, thier height etc. I think most men really don't have it as easy going as many of these types of people today imply.

                Also i think in today's sexual marketplace/or popular culture/world with its ridiculously high, if not unrealistic standards & expectations placed on men and thus which most men simply cannot match up to and are subsequently cast aside/excluded. Things like the family courts & the Judiciary are all against men as well. Too many are left with nothing and are left alone to suffer in silence and live a life of indignity. Harrowing lonliness. In many ways i think it parallels our own 21st century society. Sad really. I do think women have an easier time of it these days..They are valued by default and in many ways get all the supposed benefits that men get yet they have none of the responsibilities. Women are viewed as children and enjoy all the perks that come with that. Society defo has a double standard. We need a cultural overhaul on this imo.

                It also doesn't help that here in Britain we have a culture of putting men down. Always telling a guy to man up, stop being a pussy, grow up n just get over it, laughing if a man cries, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, gotta be stoic n strong all the time, no support networks or outlets etc etc.. We're not very good at and greatly discourage males from talking about their feelings as well. "Friends" don't want to hear it(infact as a man you run the risk of loosing friends by talking about this stuff. Men also enforce n perpetuate this on on other men), we have a very standoffish, impersonnel, awkward, uncomfortable, passive aggressive n cold relationships between each other generally such is our culture here in the UK. The rampant narrcacism, selfishness and breakdown in any sense of community is also not helping. It's all so sad really. Things didn't have to become this way. I feel like too many don't really give a shit either. As long as their fine, fuck everyone else. Too many in this country have this selfish, devoid of empathy attitude, it all perpetuates everything. Tbh I don't know what can be done, again we need an entire culture reeboot, an overhaul in how we perceive maleness, an overhaul in interpersonal relationships.