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FR: female manipulation, shaming. (self.marriedredpill)

Flathatter45Unplugging が 投稿

Last night, I came home from work and supper was 15 minutes away, so I sat down to catch up with my kids. Wife gave me her usual chaste hug, which I hardly noticed. I’ve been withdrawing time and attention lately because her behavior has been so consistently sub par. I have to leave after supper to drop my son off for a meeting. This conversation occurred at the dinner table.

Wife: “So, what do you do in town while sonny is at his meeting?” Me:” I usually hang out at a coffee house and read, or sometimes a bar if there is a ballgame on.” I answer indifferently. It’s no secret. Wife: “Oh. Well, I was going to ask you to give me a ride so I could try out some new eyeglasses, but I wouldn’t want to interrupt your reading time”. (this was delivered with a little bit of petulance).

I shrugged, and finished my dinner. Took son to meeting and hung out at the coffee house for an hour. Later I was marveling at this little bit of female manipulation. Instead of coming right out and asking me for a ride, (which I surely would have agreed to, as it was a completely reasonable request), wife tried to shame me into asking her to please, pretty please let me have the privilege of shuttling her around. I then got to thinking how many times in the past had she used such tactics to get me to give her what she wanted, and have me thank her for the privilege, and I went along with it? The answer is, too many. Had this happened pre-Redpill, I would have gotten offended, asked her to please let me take her, and then later would have been left with a bad taste in my mouth, feeling manipulated but unable to put my anger into words. I would have seethed and pouted and maybe picked a quarrel.

As it was, I had myself a good laugh thinking about it. I suppose she will sulk. I suppose she will tell her friends what an insensitive creep I have become. I suppose she will make a point of asking someone else to give her a ride, instead of condescending to ask me. But I don’t care. I’m doing Me. And Me says, “I have standards. If you want a favor from me, the least you can do is ask. If you cannot bring yourself to do that, either it’s not that important or you don’t respect or like me very much. Either way, not my problem.” QED.

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[–]addictedtoyourfaceUnplugging 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Wife gave me her usual chaste hug, which I hardly noticed.

Not sure why you added this detail, but since you did let me comment on it. Here is a perfect opportunity for you to pull your wife into your frame. My wife and daughter both do this sometimes (the reasons don't even matter). If I get one of those pathetic hugs I step back and go, "uh what the hell was that?" Sometimes they snap out of it and give me a great big hug and kiss, sometimes they don't. If they don't, I rush them and give them the biggest bear hug ever. Try that a few times and see what happens.

The rest of your post doesn't make sense to me. You've been here long enough to know woman speak differently then men. If you don't mind giving her a ride and you know she's using woman speak to ask, then give her a ride. Simple as that. If you don't, just tell her "Naw I'm good, I'd rather stay out and read."

How hard is that?

[–]Flathatter45Unplugging[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Its not hard at all. I could have done that, but I decided not to. I don't care that women speak differently. I can't do anything about that. What I care about is that I require direct communication and respect. its my standard. You do you. But thanks for the hugs advice. I'll try that.

[–]addictedtoyourfaceUnplugging 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I require direct communication....

Cool. Just remembered you're married to a woman.

right?

[–]Flathatter45Unplugging[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not likely to forget that. I've seen her communicate directly often. She can do it if she makes the effort. And the more she does it the easier ti will get.

[–]Mecha75 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If I get one of those pathetic hugs I step back and go, "uh what the hell was that?"

My wife gets a good kiss and ass grab every time I get home. Unless of course she gave me reason to not be around her. She did once give me a peck before running out the door to an appointment. She was a bit late as i made her kiss me for around 5 minutes (was watching the clock). Of course that was one part reinforcing of my boundaries, and another part AM. She kept trying to pull away and I pull her back.

[–]addictedtoyourfaceUnplugging 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

She was a bit late as i made her kiss me for around 5 minutes

My man!

[–]innominating 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

How hard is it for his wife to ask like an adult and not try to shame him?

[–]addictedtoyourfaceUnplugging 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh my god, get me a box of tissues. Where the hell am I?

[–]stonepimpletilistsHARD CORE NAVY RED 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How hard it is to slap her on the ass and go have a coffee?

[–]Flathatter45Unplugging[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Easy as pie. If her attitude had been less shitty, more flirty, I probably would have. But my time has value, and an hour of peace and quiet is hard currency for a family man.

[–]angels_fanUnplugging 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It wasn't the not asking, it was the petulant snotty tone of, "Well I wouldn't want to interrupt your reading" that pissed me off.

No fucking way am I offering to take such a bratty bitch with me.

If she wants to put on her big girl pants and ask, even covertly, to go with me like an adult, fine. Even a, "Oh, I've been needing to go into town..." would have been met with a, "Yeah, come along!"

[–]addictedtoyourfaceUnplugging 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He said " A little bit of petulance" So I didn't read into it that she was being a bratty bitch. Could have been. Seemed like a mountain out of a molehill kinda deal to me.

[–]innominating 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course.

[–]InChargeMan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whenever you aren't sure what to do, remember that she is a child. How would you handle it if your kid said/did the same thing?

She'll show you! First she will have an attitude then punish you by you not having to be around her. LOL

As a tip, moving forward don't make a big deal out of the incident, and don't let her do it either. Literally put it out of your mind and don't entertain any shenanigans about it later. Whatever you do, don't say "Well, if you had only asked me." or "I was waiting for you to ask me.". This is saying that you knew her feelings but were playing a power struggle game. Don't play the game.

If I were you when she brings it up I would say something like "Oh, you wanted to go downtown? Shit, you should have come with us when I took Sonny to his meeting." Said in a cheery and good-guy tone. Then after her part. "Really, I don't remember you saying you wanted to go ... weird. Maybe next time!" Then a smile, slap on the ass, and suggest something fun for the family to do. Ignore any more talk of it with your own discussions of what fun thing you have coming up (which she can be a part of if she wants).

EDIT: If she keeps at it continue to fog. "I can't believe you didn't know I was going downtown, I thought I told you. Lol, it's not just glasses, you need to get your ears checked too." Etc. If it gets hostile give the stern look, STFU and remove yourself.

[–]470_2_700_nm 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not getting much from this post other than you are still seething in the anger stage.

I suggest playing with her. " Sure I'll take you shopping, buts not going to be for eye glasses. Well maybe... if you are going for the librarian look."

Just have fun man.

[–]Flathatter45Unplugging[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nope, wasn't angry at all. But maybe a little too introspective, and not enough fun loving. You've got a point there.

[–]angels_fanUnplugging 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As awesome as my wife is, she is the queen of giving subtle hints instead of outright asking to do things. Even things that would be completely normal to ask for.

"I have to work early on this day and I don't know who I'm going to ask to take the carpool in the morning...."

She knows damned well that I work from home and have no problem taking the carpool if necessary. I usually just say, "huh. Yeah, let me know when you figure it out." That usually gets a, "Do you think you could do it?" "Sure babe. No problem."

[–]InfiniteAscent 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wonder if you should have said "Well then ask me for a ride and let me decide if it's interrupting my reading." Or something similar. If you want her to be direct, shouldn't you tell her to be direct rather than ignoring her indirect/shameful approach? She may eventually learn by trial and error, but is there a problem with giving her the right answer?

[–]Flathatter45Unplugging[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I suppose, but thats an awful lot of talking for such a small matter. I spent so much of my past life emoting, I'm more inclined now to shrugs and grunts.

[–]redmountainpill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You were being passive in response to her passive aggressiveness. It's ok to be magnanimous when she's communicating in a shitty way.

You're changing the rules of your relationship and she's playing by the old ways. Every once in a while you can use actual words. "Hey babe, why don't I take you into town and you can shop while I read. If you want something, just ask babe." It's not being beta. It's not tolerating disrespect. It's simply showing her that the game is changing and neither of you have to play games anymore.

[–]resolutions316 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The MRP process for me has been one of continual and shocking awakening at the extent to which I have allowed myself to be emotionally manipulated.

And, in most cases, I have colluded with and encouraged that manipulation, creating the very situation I find myself so hurt and disappointed by.

[–]innominating 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You are your own judge. Nice display of STFU and OI.

The next step is a type of amused mastery, "sweetheart, if you ask me like a big girl you might find out I like to spend time with you as much as I like to read"

[–]Mecha75 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

"sweetheart, if you ask me like a big girl you might find out I like to spend time with you as much as I like to read"

I don't get the feeling he likes his wife very much.

[–]innominating 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you're talking about me, I like women a lot when they are submissive and eager to please, and that includes my wife.

[–]Mecha75 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you're talking about me, I like women a lot when they are submissive and eager to please, and that includes my wife.

Nope, I was referring to the OP.

[–]Flathatter45Unplugging[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like her when she is sweet and submissive. When she is bratty I find that amusing. Extended bitchfests or silent treatment are met with a shrug and indifference and me doing other things.

[–]PineleroMarried 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My daughters do this type of stuff all the time. I usually just smirk, identify their behavior type, shaming, manipulation...and then give them pointers on how to be better at it for the future. They look at me in total disbelief but still don't drop the charade even though called on it.

[–]saint_chalet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suppose she will tell her friends what an insensitive creep I have become

From my own, albeit anecdotal, experience. My wife complaining about my has the opposite effect that she wants for. Her friends get flirty with me after she and I have fought. Could be that I'm in full idgaf or it could be they sense a crack in the wall and want to slide in. Whatever the case, my days of worrying about how I'm portrayed to the vaginal collective are over.

Good work man

[–]creating_my_life 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's not shaming, that's passive aggressive. It's a poor communication technique independent of gender.

[–]Mecha75 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Last night, I came home from work and supper was 15 minutes away, so I sat down to catch up with my kids. Wife gave me her usual chaste hug, which I hardly noticed. I’ve been withdrawing time and attention lately because her behavior has been so consistently sub par.

How long have you been withdrawing and yet you still let her hug you? You apparently do not approve of the way she is "greeting" you either. But then again, I have different standards for when I get home.

I answer indifferently. It’s no secret.

If it is no secret, I usually tell my wife something off the wall like "To go solve the meaning of PIE" or something like that. Typically for me, she always asks when I heading out the door to go to the gym. Dressed in my usual gym attire, with my towel and gloves.

As it was, I had myself a good laugh thinking about it.

Good, laugh about. Don't ever let your anger out on a woman, it only fucks you up in the long run.

I suppose she will make a point of asking someone else to give her a ride,

Depends who she is asking, for me it better be a female. But that is just me and one of my red lines.

And now to the crux of your post:

Wife: “Oh. Well, I was going to ask you to give me a ride so I could try out some new eyeglasses, but I wouldn’t want to interrupt your reading time”. (this was delivered with a little bit of petulance).

Of course she is manipulative. Women speak in covert conversations. How can you expect them to speak overtly? They are not men. My response would have been after dinner to say, "Cmon, lets go get a coffee." and not "I will drop you off at lenscrafters"