上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]LikesTacos 435 ポイント436 ポイント  (32子コメント)

“When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.” ― Thomas Sowell

[–]LucifersHammerr 269 ポイント270 ポイント  (4子コメント)

A study actually demonstrated that when men treat women equally, without chivalry, they are overwhelmingly regarded as "sexist" by both men and women.

[–]redwormcharlie 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Look at how people are jumping all over Trump cause he didn't treat his wife like a lady.

[–]jaheiner 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ironic seeing as people are making rape threats and saying terrible shit about her not even a month ago. Now they're worried about him not treating her like a lady?

[–]Rethgil 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That has all the hallmarks of feminists-try any old lies to further a so called moral cause, but abandon them totally the next day if it doesn't work and create a new lie. Even if it contradicts the previous one completely. I get the feeling from such things that most feminists think the end always justifies the means. For them, anyway. Says a lot about the immorality and radicalism of modern feminists.

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol he didn't hold the car door open for her, or walk her up the steps.

Seems like her doesn't think she's a fragile flower (aka equality)

Sad.

[–]you_cant_banme 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I need to put some time aside to read a book or two of his. That man is a fucking legend.

[–]Rethgil 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact that most feminists often come from privileged backgrounds and are used to acting arrogantly and selfishly are certainly not unrelated.

[–]cuteman 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Was that originally Sowell? Ironic HuffPo and their ilk co-oped it.

[–]Evets616 687 ポイント688 ポイント  (160子コメント)

Mens issues aren't addressed adequately, but articles like this will not help anyone take the movement seriously.

He makes an absolute comparison between western women and women in states that all would agree are dealing with overt, state-sponsored oppression. The handful of examples he gives are oppression. They are not the sum-total list of all possible forms of oppression. By setting up this list, he attempts to invalidate the whole protest

He makes vague claims about what possible reasons they could have for protesting and then cherry picks a paragraph from one article with a few specific reasons and then some nice vague reasons possible for protesting. This is a nice Straw Man that he sets up here where he can misunderstand and attack these reasons for wanting to protest.

Taxes on hygeine products are an issue when the country has policies in place like HSA and FSA's that people can set aside tax-free dollars for medical expenses. I personally use mine for allergy medications, shots, eye doctor visits and the dentist. Those medications and doctor's visits seriously affect my health and overall comfort. And yet those policies do not cover tampons, pads, and other products associated with every mature woman's menstral cycle. That's pretty bullshit that something that majorly affects the majority of women isn't covered. By the way, if you have a prescription, you can spend FSA money on your Viagra.

But the author here glosses over the principle with a monthly monetary value and then tries to say that asking for this is bad in principle as a gender specific law. He then compares this to men being forced to sign up for the SSA. I think the SSA signup being gendered and tied to so many important federal things is wrong and I support the elimination of the requirement or expanding it to both genders. But let's look at the actual effect it has: there hasn't been a draft in over 40 years. So any man born after 1955 hasn't had to deal with a draft. But nearly every woman born since then has had dozens of mentral cycles to deal with. Not being able to use FSA dollars on those products for women is an issue and the author's treatment of the issue is lazy.

The author next completely misses the point, my guess is on purpose, about Paid Maternity Leave. He cites the FMLA program's 12 weeks as proof of paid maternity leave in the US. His claim is again, made in the most lazy manner possible. Why? If you go to the FMLA wiki page, you'll see that it's not an explicit maternity program. It's a general 12 weeks per year, unpaid, that anyone can take, if they qualify for the program. The point of the program is to give you that time and protect it by not allowing your employer to fire you for medical reasons. It's not a gender specific giveaway to women. Yes, it is an unpaid block of time that can be used for giving birth, so it technically checks the box against the protestor issue of unpaid maternity but the law isn't a specific women's law. He misrepresents the issue.

The whole point of protesting over the lack of paid parental leave, and I personally fully support paid leave for both parents, is that the US is woefully inadequate in addressing this issue compared to nearly all other western, wealthy nations. If you follow the wikipedia link he gives, it talks about maternity leave in the US. The 4th sentence says that the US gives 12 weeks of leave for mothers under FMLA. The very next sentence, however, shows exactly the point that anyone ever makes about the state of leave here in the US:

This policy is distinct to other industrialized countries for its relative scarcity of benefits, in terms of the short length of protected maternity leave and not offering some form of wage compensation for the leave of absence

And even in the FMLA article, a nice table comparing the lack of benefits in the US is shown in the article section under controversy. The table shows how other countries all have paid maternity leave, with several also covering fathers as well.

Several of the claims that the author addresses I lean towards his opinion. Walking alone at night isn't something I'd call safe for many people, especially depending on where you live. Objectification is an issue, but not remotely on the level of health issues. And 100%, I agree that the plight of men as victims of domestic violence is criminally ignored here, and most places honestly. Women are not the sole victims of violence in the US, far from it. And I don't support the notion of systemic oppression of women in the west as compared to elsewhere.

And at the end, he tells women that they need to be more inclusive of men's issues and campaign for equality and not privilege over men. Sure, that makes sense if you buy into the rest of his claims where he's trying to show that women don't have any problems here and have nothing to complain about. Then, yeah, any complaining is for special things, not equal things. But he failed to support his major points that women are perfectly fine. So he comes off sounding like the feminists who say "why make a men's group? just support women's groups because we're already fighting for equality".

This isn't a zero sum game, and women and men like the author who try to turn it into one just set everyone else up for conflict. Women having issues with some things does not mean that men can't have issues about the some of the same things and also about other, different things.

[–]Hey_You_Asked 80 ポイント81 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Thank you for saying what needed to be said.

[–]gRod805 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (12子コメント)

This article reminded me of why I had planned to unsubscribe to the sub once and for all. I originally came here because i thought certain child support rulings were unfair and also saw that boys who were raped by their female teachers weren't being treated the same had they'd been girls. I then saw this sub change to become very Alt-right, White males are only welcomed kind of place. I think this sub has to go back to its roots. Stuff like this is really alienating. You can be for women's rights and for mens' rights at the same time because originally these terms stood for equality. Now it seems like one has to take from the other. Any sane person can see how offensive the presidents language was when he talked about groping women. You don't need an agenda to realize that even if it goes against our political beliefs, lets not fool ourselves.

[–]George_Beast 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Black dude here, tell me again why I'm not welcomed here? I've never felt like it but maybe you can enlighten me.

[–]tor255 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

how dare you! this is an alt-right, white male only subreddit! get out of here before i have to resurrect hitler to purify you!

[–]Demonspawn 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Any sane person can see how offensive the presidents language was when he talked about groping women.

What was offensive about him talking about what women would let him do?

That women would let him do it? I guess it's "offensive" that he let women's real behavior be known to the world.

That women won't let you do it? I guess it's "offensive" that he can get women while you can't.

It's not offensive at all. Grow up.

[–]mwobuddy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What was offensive about him talking about what women would let him do?

Because it sounds like rape and sexual assault when a man says it. A woman "just letting a guy do it" still counts, cause "reasons".

[–]Contemptably_Apt 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Uh-oh, there's the magic buzzword of "Alt-right".

Now I can't take a word you're saying seriously.

[–]LucifersHammerr 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I then saw this sub change to become very Alt-right, White males are only welcomed kind of place.

I read this sub daily and you're full of shit.

[–]Apexbreed 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I do too. That guy is just mad his political ideology isn't being worshipped so he drops the A bomb...

[–]BobMcGeorge 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If anything this sub is more left than right

[–]mwobuddy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I then saw this sub change to become very Alt-right, White males are only welcomed kind of place.

You are full of shit.

[–]Just4yourpost 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (13子コメント)

This isn't a zero sum game, and women and men like the author who try to turn it into one just set everyone else up for conflict. Women having issues with some things does not mean that men can't have issues about the some of the same things and also about other, different things.

Women make it a zero sum game, whether you like it or not. Tell me what would've happened to you if you held up a sign for various Men's Rights issues that he listed during your pussy march, and I'll show you the door.

Oh, and shouldn't we not be taxed on Toilet Paper? Toilet paper for wiping your ass is as much a necessity for MEN AND WOMEN as Tampons are for women. And please do compare toilet paper to using a cloth or towel....or a rag. Please please PLEASE do...

[–]shizenmeister 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for your well thought out and rightfully critical summary.

[–]Guack007 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was going to downvote but I appreciate the criticism of the article you had so I did not. You make some valid points such as FSA spending, however, as you said, its a small issue. I read your whole post as well as the replyies and still I dont see where you stated a single "big" issue thats even remotely comparable to the ones others have brought up. Not one

[–]itty_bitty_beaver 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've said this elsewhere, but it deserves to be here ...

Virtually nothing that you've listed has anything whatsoever to do with Trump, because at the time of the Women's March, he'd served a grand total of a few hours in office. He didn't enact sales tax on tampons, which are overwhelmingly imposed at the state level, by state legislatures. He didn't choose not to ratify the Equal Pay Act, which is also done at the state level and which the states have had the option to do since 1963. He didn't create the social situation where several states have no parental leave at all, and most don't have any paid leave in place, leaving it up to the corporations themselves to fund it.

So, while women may have some legitimate beefs with US society, as you've said, literally none of it can be attributed to Trump. Virtually all of what you list has been in place for years, if not decades.

So ... why now? Why not last year, while Obama was in office, and these issues were still extant? Why not back in Bush's era? Why not in Clinton's? The failure to fully ratify the Equal Pay Act in the US has been a weeping sore since Lyndon B Fucking JOHNSTON ... but US women waited until Donald Trump takes office in 2017 to finally get out in these kinds of numbers?

So, if most of these legitimate concerns didn't involve Trump, why now? It's pure political theater, and should be dismissed as such, even by those people - you and I included - that acknowledge there's legitimate concerns for women in US society.

[–]dotlurk 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You have basically confirmed the author's claims: women are not oppressed in the USA.

Btw, aren't tampons like 30 for 5$? Are you seriously calling this an "issue"? I'll keep buying my shaving cream without making a March about it.

[–]LucifersHammerr 68 ポイント69 ポイント  (65子コメント)

And at the end, he tells women that they need to be more inclusive of men's issues and campaign for equality and not privilege over men. Sure, that makes sense if you buy into the rest of his claims where he's trying to show that women don't have any problems here and have nothing to complain about.

It's a question of priorities. Eg whining about a tampon tax vs men having zero reproductive rights, boys having their genitals mutilated, men being denied access to their kids, being subject to conscription, receiving 63 percent longer prison sentences, the suicide epidemic etc. There seems to be a massive empathy gap here to the point where we literally care more about a few bucks spent on tampons than men's very lives.

[–]nonmillenial 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (2子コメント)

One night my girlfriend and her friend were talking about how dogs don't get a say in people clipping their tails and ears shorter and how we have no idea what it's like to have part of our body removed without our consent. I had to poke my head into the room and say "actually... I do know what that's like."

[–]gdl_nonsense 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (1子コメント)

OMG--a few years ago, I had a heated discussion with a feminist friend about how morally reprehensible MGM was (and she definitely wasn't biting). A couple hours later, we were in a bar, and she and another friend were lamenting the atrociousness of declawing cats.

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's because to feminists men are less deserving of bodily autonomy and rights than animals are.

Fuck them.

[–]Evets616 84 ポイント85 ポイント  (28子コメント)

You minimize the claim in the same way the author does. Someone somewhere else has a claim to a larger issue, therefore, you don't get to complain about your smaller issue. No one is making the claim that this issue is the biggest issue.

It is, however, part of the larger women's healthcare issue with is directly being compromised by the agenda of the new administration and as part of that, is a valid point.

[–]jaib9 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's funny how women and feminists get butthurt if we talk about male domestic violence victims, claiming its not a priority because more women are statistically more violated and we see comments like this saying "all issues matters" when it favours women.

[–]LucifersHammerr 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (25子コメント)

You minimize the claim in the same way the author does. Someone somewhere else has a claim to a larger issue, therefore, you don't get to complain about your smaller issue.

You can complain, but it would behoove you to recognize the fundamental absurdity of caring more about a few dollars than male life.

[–]guto8797 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Again, while I agree, we don't slam movements for not protecting every issue. If people claim they are fighting for female rights, you can't bash them for not supporting male rights. Now, if they claim to fight for both genders equally while not doing any of that that's when you can call them hypocrites.

But this kinds of stuff is common here. Every time someone brings a female issue someone has to come shouting BUT MEN HAVE IT WORSE and it honestly weakens a lot this movement. Its like the "eat your broccoli because kids in Africa starve" argument.

It was after all the march for women or something like that. Not the march for the equal rights of both genders.

[–]xNOM 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If people claim they are fighting for female rights, you can't bash them for not supporting male rights.

? What legal rights do women lack, exactly again? Name one.

[–]LucifersHammerr 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Every time someone brings a female issue someone has to come shouting BUT MEN HAVE IT WORSE and it honestly weakens a lot this movement.

It's sort of difficult not to though. It's not as though men started this fight. Feminists created a laundry list of alleged oppressions suffered by females; they claimed these were "gendered issues". Well as it turns out a lot of them actually apply to both genders or there is some male equivalent of X issue. If the feminist movement had begun as an egalitarian movement that recognized areas where males were disadvantaged we wouldn't be having this problem. They didn't -- from the beginning they were purely gynocentric -- so here we are. It's taken about a hundred years but men have finally had enough abuse. It is actually quite remarkable that men are speaking up at all given that our gender role is based on strength.

[–]guto8797 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (10子コメント)

The problem with trying to categorize the "feminist" movement is that its in no way or shape organised. Its a wild spectrum ranging from sensible people fighting for both genders, to people recognising issues on both sides but focusing on females, to the more dramatic people.

I just think that despite the fact that I am a male and that I have suffered from male-specific problems in the past that does not stop me from acknowledging female issues and from trying to improve the situation while in a more civil matter trying to bring attention to male issues while doing so. I can fight for the rights of both sides while trying to establish bridges in-between. I can understand the tampon complains. Its not a picky issue. If males had to use a special Toilet paper on top of regular toilet paper, just that that special one cost way more and wasn't covered, I would be pretty angry too. But because I protest against this situation doesn't mean I can't also try to bring awareness to MGM, unfair sentencing, custody battles, workplace injuries etc

[–]LucifersHammerr 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (8子コメント)

The problem with trying to categorize the "feminist" movement is that its in no way or shape organised.

If by this you mean "ask ten feminists a question and you will get ten different answers" you are correct (unless it's about the mysterious patriarchy, which they all agree is the devil). However feminists certainly do not lack in organization or funding. It's a multi-billion dollar industry.

I don't particularly care what Jane Q feminist thinks. I care what the feminists who influence policy think. So for example, the largest feminist organization in the US, NOW, opposes equal parenting rights and alimony reform. The largest feminist domestic violence group in Australia, The White Ribbon, opposes recognizing male victims of domestic violence (or female abuse of children). And so on and so forth.

Until feminists clean their own house and demand that these groups support men and boys and actual equality then I will consider them my enemies.

[–]Kuramo 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gynocentrism, check it out.

[–]Meyright 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can complain, but it would behoove you to recognize the fundamental absurdity of caring more about a few dollars than male life.

Especially when their movement claims its for men's rights too.

Equal custody, prison sentences? Naaah, lets concentrate on fixing pink tax first though /s

[–]Slapimus 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The difference is, when women speak about their issues they get marches and events and people praising them for their bravery. When men talk about their issues they're misogynists, evil, patriarchal, homophobic, transphobic, privileged assholes who deserve to be in camps. Don't believe me? Don't have to, just google Mens Domestic Violence Shelters, or look up the rules for men in a homeless shelter. Tell me all about how bad the women have it. I mean aside from winning most custody and alimony battles, winning almost all of the domestic violence issues, getting months in jail for raping someone while men get years. But i mean other than that its like the same thing, i mean they both have issues right? I mean just the other day someone held open the door for a woman. I know right, the fucking nerve of that patriarchal scum, being polite, what a piece of shit. Oh and lets not forget what happens if a woman accuses a man of rape, if he didn't do it, doesn't matter the world will treat him like he did. He'll lose his scholarship, his job, his wife, kids, possibly be jailed for 10-20 years. And when the woman comes forward and says "naw i made that up" what happens? Fucking nothing. So no you don't get to stand here and say that. Women in the first world are not oppressed, in fact they belong to the most privileged and least oppressed group of people who have ever existed.

[–]mistixs 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not to mention the fact that lack of paid maternity leave correlates with higher infant mortality rates, and also, the US has higher maternal mortality than Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Libya, and Iran. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/women-dying-childbirth-u-s-saudi-arabia/ https://www.rt.com/usa/362297-maternal-mortality-rates-america/

[–]Erochimaru 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you very much for your amazing comment!

We shouldn't try to invalidate our oppressions, no matter the sex or reason we are oppressed. Instead we should point to the things happening like you did, about the female hygiene products not being covered but viagra is. I wanna add that there is no such perfect thing as viagra for women and there are many sexual issues gone ignored, like the equivalent to blue balls or erectile dysfunction. Something like viagra for women needs to be developed.

And for men, they need safe birth control and for instance vasalgel should be more supported and come out asap! I also was so happy when Obama announced to have more baby stations build in mens toilets! Maybe this one issue is not huge for many but for some men who are the sole parent it's very difficult.

And there are tons of other things. We should point problems out and work on them, not bury them. We should try to understand each other :)

[–]Ninja_Arena 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I use to get downvoted to hell when I complained about posts like this and similar articles basically designed to stir up trouble and not solve anything. We are ultimately here to spread awareness and discuss solutions and options when dealing with oppression and maybe provide support to men dealing with specific issues.
Glad to see someone can post what you did and not get downvoted to hell. This sub might be turning around.

[–]tallwheel 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nah. It's just because this was on /r/all and there are lots of non-subscribers to this sub posting and voting in this thread.

[–]mwobuddy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Basically. Its kind of like a Distributed Brigade, in which the participants are heavily feminized doctrine, and came here on their own will, rather than through a "brigade" sub post, and are spamming that upvote/gold option because they're both disgusted and terrified at facts and critical thinking.

[–]Kuramo 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Gynocentrism is so wired inside men, isn't it? You're an evidence of that.

[–]mwobuddy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Name one right that men have in the western world which women don't.

You can't. Checkmate.

btw, getting money to fund your personal hygiene needs is NOT a right.

And I hope all the people spamming upvotes to your post get banned from this sub for "brigading" from r/all.

[–]NaughtyFred 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

afaic the fact that "not being given free tampons is sexist" shows the utterly ridiculous mockery of a movement that feminism has become.

[–]ExpendableOne 74 ポイント75 ポイント  (4子コメント)

wear penis costumes

Do you want to be arrested and be put on some kind of sexual offender's list?

[–]AnastyNAHA 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly my thoughts. I'd give you upwards of 30 minutes before you're a registered sex offender for doing that shit.

[–]greenbut 149 ポイント150 ポイント  (93子コメント)

i totally agree, if you are going to march/protest something it should be specific...like paid maternity leave..that would have been nice...but this was just dumb...as a Hispanic women working male dominated field i'm not oppressed one bit and i think its opposite, men don't want to make jokes around me because they feel as though i might get offended ...ugg ...in reality its a step backwards from equality in my opinion, i have to make a lot of jokes just for the white men to feel comfortable around me to let loose a bit ....also men and women are different, physically and mentally (hormones) (see recent scientific studies which are now being done with that in mind), so stop it ladies i don't want my future daughter signing up for selective service

[–]tigrn914 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (55子コメント)

Was with you up until the last part. Women should be required to sign up. Otherwise it's oppressive to men(as it is now).

There's legitimacy in the argument that men are more fit for war, however there are always roles that women can fill.

In the event of total war(the only event I feel justifies a draft), we need everything we can get.

[–]stargrunt6 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

There shouldn't be a selective service in the first place.

[–]tigrn914 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There shouldn't be slavery in the first place. Doesn't mean we only enslave men because slavery shouldn't exist.

[–]bumblebritches57 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

that's not current;y an option. when the world is at peace we won't need one, but were a long ways off from that.

[–]Electroverted 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (9子コメント)

To be fair, we're not worried about offending you; we're worried about you using those teases against us later. Men don't worry about offending other men because a supervisor can yell at both of them to knock it off and get back to work and it's resolved. A supervisor can't do that when a woman complains, and oftentimes the damage done to the accused male is longlasting.

So we're not worried about the offense, we're worried about the power you have over management.

[–]WordsNotToLiveBy 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's included in what she's talking about. Supposedly offending her is the first step in that process of drama that would unfold, because most of the time a supervisor gets involved it's after the offended speaks up. Of course, the very fact that a woman is present will make the supervisor walk on eggshells.

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well hopefully one woman will now understand the concept of false accusations.

[–]Electroverted 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Some of them aren't necessarily false, but extremely distorted.

I heard a story of a group of men and women trading sexist jokes back and forth. Later one of the women, who joked about men, complained to the supervisor about the men telling sexist jokes. Her complaint isn't a lie, but she twisted the facts. Luckily the manager had witnesses and gave her a warning instead.

How about that campus story about sexual assault where a couple had consensual sex. The next day the boy groped the girl's chest, and it took her several months to file a complaint. She wasn't lying, but she was fucking around with their relationship dynamic to administrators and more-than-likely jilted about something else (break-up, etc).

This bullshit is why men treat women differently. Women revel in it and think it makes them clever, but really, men will always treat them as immature and lesser as long as they do it.

[–]rtechie1 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

One of the biggest problems women in STEM complain about is a lack of mentoring from men because men are afraid to be alone with them due to fear of sexual harassment claims.

[–]originalSpacePirate 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And for good reason. Even just the accusation is often enough to ruin your career. After studying and working your ASS off to get into the STEM field why would you put that at risk? Especially as the women being pushed into STEM are all feminists (which i think is still ridiculous as not a single feminist has pushed for more women in male dominated fields like construction and other manual labour) and believe society should bend over backwards and treat them like special snowflakes for being in STEM.

[–]rtechie1 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

After studying and working your ASS off to get into the STEM field why would you put that at risk?

That's exactly why this is worse in STEM than in many other fields. Women report much the same thing in the legal profession, for much the same reason. And who is more likely to sue than lawyers?

[–]DingleBerryCam 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Although it was called the women's march, I believe the march on DC was less towards "women's rights" and rather more about marching in protest to Trump's inauguration.

A lot of women see him as a womanizer and so are upset about him being elected despite that fact. Hence the march was less about being oppressed as it was about just disliking the new president.

[–]RubyOrchid13 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

That still doesn't make much sense as 60℅ of white women voted for him. He actually did well with the female vote, as far as I know anyways.

[–]DingleBerryCam 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well it wasn't just females there either. From what I had heard there was a large amount of men in attendance as well. I was under the impression that the large amount of people there were more under the category of "against trump" than under the category of "fighting for this large list of topics" although they aren't mutually exclusive of course

[–]reverian69 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It felt like a progressive agenda under the message of equality.Sadly others critcizing the march were getting labelled sexist.

[–]greenbut 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

then they should have said that, not compiled some big list to protest about, of course it was big because everyone protesting for their own reasons. i don't like the guy either, and actually voted for clinton since i like the environment and didn't realize the SJW shit spreads really far, but i dont like him because he is a crazy selfish narcissist who feeds off bad press for gigantic ego and is completely unpredictable not because he is anti-women, i think he actually said once "one good women is better then 10 good men" (see PBS frontline documentary The Choice 2016)

[–]Korvar 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

womanizer

Not "womaniser" but "someone who brags about getting away with sexual assault". Which is a different kettle of fish.

[–]PM_ME_UR_VAG 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He bragged women let him touch their pussies which isn't sexual assault. This narative that he's bragged about sexualy assaulting women is a lie.

[–]JoelTLoUisBadass 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sexual assault and them letting him grope them because he's rich are 2 different things.

[–]FeierInMeinHose 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Brags about being able to grope beautiful women, I don't really think he was bragging about being able to get away with sexually assaulting them. What I took from that tiny soundbite is that he was saying that they're attracted to him because he's rich and famous and thus they let him grope them, not that they let him grope them because he's so rich and famous that he would ruin them. It really is completely up to the listener how they take it, though, because we have no further context.

[–]Korvar 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was replying to:

A lot of women see him as a womanizer

and pointing out that "a lot of women" see him as "someone who brags about getting away with sexual assault"

You apparently disagree with their analysis of that clip, which is fine. But that's what they think, not that he's a womanizer.

[–]nonmillenial 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well if your daughter doesn't have to live with the very real possibility that she may be sent to a foreign land to die, then she doesn't deserve equality. I'm being facetious, but I hope you see that point.

[–]-bruce- 773 ポイント774 ポイント  (320子コメント)

I am so tired of this false narrative.

We elected a president that said you should grab women by their pussies. He promised and has already restricted funding for abortions, which many women view as their right. Women are voicing their protest at that reality, and for promotion of women's rights generally.

This isn't hard to understand, and the false narratives promoted by posts like these just reinforce the line that the men's rights is anti-women.

It's the same narrative that says men shouldn't advocate for their rights because "they already have it good". It's a toxic sentiment on either side.

[–]ZenPyx 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ahh. Except you forget that men are subject to many of these trials as well. A man gets no say in his own children's birth or lack thereof. Frankly, Hillary has said some disturbing stuff, especially about homosexuals, in the recent past, whereas Trump seems to be acting in a decent manner and wants equality for all. Men's rights is not anti woman. It is against the idea that women should be the only ones making societal progress, and frankly men are being left far behind in that regard. In terms of restricting funding for abortions, I'm pretty sure you have to pay to get anything medical done in the US, so it's not like the money wasn't coming out of your taxes anyway, and this way richer people who don't qualify for a free one will have to pay a little more to offset the money that would have come from people who will never have children. I understand that women should have a right to an abortion, but it still costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. This isn't really a false narrative. It's just men pointing out that women are not the only ones who have it bad and men are being pushed under the rug as we are far less likely to voice our concerns due to our more reserved nature. Frankly, most women in the women's march didn't really know what they were doing in the first place, it was more of just a general "anti Trump rally" with a vague feminist undertone.

[–]Hydris 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He promised and has already restricted funding for abortions

Having the right to have an abortion is worlds different than not getting the government to help you pay for it. You are not owed funding to get an abortion.

[–]DrewFlan 108 ポイント109 ポイント  (83子コメント)

I agree entirely. The author points out that women do in fact pay $7 more than they should due to the Tampon Tax and basically says "whoop de doo" because men have to sign up for selective service. Why does it have to be men vs. women? Why is women's gripe against an unnecessary tax invalidated by something completely unrelated? Also, I bet 95% of the people who marched last Sunday have no idea who Linda Sarsour is. Her misguided comment on Sharia Law has no bearing on the things women personally experience everyday. They didn't march for Linda Sarsour, they marched for themselves.

[–]rtechie1 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (15子コメント)

There is no "tampon tax". What they're talking about is that tampons aren't exempt from sales tax and they want them to be because they are "essential items" unlike say, shaving razors for men. Though I would add condoms to that legislation as well.

[–]elebrin 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (13子コメント)

If we are going to have a sales tax, then we shouldn't play favorites with it at all. Either we have one or we don't. When we have a selective sales tax, it allows Government to play favorites with particular industries and it allows politicians to give out favors.

No, if there must be a sales tax it should be on everything without exception.

[–]Quintrell 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Agreed. Feminists argue that the tampon tax is unfair b/c tampons are a "necessity." Okay, well what about food? That's far more of a necessity than tampons, which are a relatively recent invention. You literally need food to live and yet grocery stores where I live levy an extra 3% on food products.

I think a closer comparison would be diapers, both baby and adult, which are also subject to a sales tax, and taxed at the same rate as any other non-food stuff. So why just tampons? Why not other necessities? I guess incontinent adults don't have an entire social movement lobbying on their behalf.

[–]Evets616 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The tax issue is also about income taxes.

You can set aside money in an FSA or HSA directly from your paycheck, to be used only for medical and healthcare expenses. That money is set aside, pre-tax.

There's a list of approved items that you can use this money for. Feminine hygiene products aren't covered on the list.

FSA info on tampons

[–]youcantdenythat 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Their point isn't about necessities being taxed. It's about being taxed because they are a woman. Men don't need tampons so don't have to pay the tax.

Men and women use razors, diapers, etc so these are fair things to tax.

[–]Quintrell 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They aren't being taxed because they are a woman. They are paying a tax because they are buying a good. And I don't see why anyone should be taxed for being old and incontinent either. Or why a person should be taxed for being sick. How is that fair?

[–]kai_zen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So things that only women need to use should not be taxed? What about lipstick? Isn't that the definition of preferential treatment? Why does it matter that an item that women buy is taxed? Is there a corralary in men's prooducts that is not taxed?

[–]bufedad 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (22子コメント)

The author points out that women do in fact pay $7 more than they should due to the Tampon Tax and basically says "whoop de doo" because men have to sign up for selective service.

More than they should? What do you mean more than they should? It's a tax, you have to pay it when you purchase something. Men have to pay it when they purchase their hygiene products. What makes women so special that they don't?

[–]DrewFlan 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (11子コメント)

The argument is that tampons are an "essential item." Whether or not you believe they are is up to you.

[–]locks_are_paranoid 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In most states, toilet paper is taxed as well. That's clearly an essential item, and so are many other things which are taxed.

[–]bufedad 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

The argument is that tampons are an "essential item." Whether or not you believe they are is up to you.

Toilet paper is an essential item. Soap is an essential item. Hell, food is an essential item.

They don't care about essential items, they care about tampons.

[–]dubuaska 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lol first, the government doesn't fund abortions, secondly the government funding an abortion for a woman isn't a fucking right. It's the woman and man's problem, not the government or anyone elses.

[–]Vertical807 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Technically, your right that the government can't, but the states can.

[–]Elvick 225 ポイント226 ポイント  (96子コメント)

We elected a president that said you should grab women by their pussies.

Where? Where did he say "you should grab women by their pussies"? The answer is nowhere, because that's not what he said.

False narrative indeed.

[–]-bruce- 108 ポイント109 ポイント  (47子コメント)

It's your right to take his statement as women want men who are "stars" to grab them.

I think it is reasonable for women to take that statement as a suggestion that if you are a star, you can get away with anything, whether the woman like it or not. He uses the words "they let you do it...You can do anything". To some, that sounds like assault.

[–]leftajar 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (42子コメント)

The word "let" renders impossible the situation of "sexual assault." The whole point of sexual assault is that it is unwanted sexual contact.

[–]magster11 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (35子コメント)

Just because you let someone in power over you have sexual contact with you doesn't mean you aren't afraid of the consequences if you don't comply.

[–]Elvick 75 ポイント76 ポイント  (2子コメント)

To take his statement as what? All I did was doing was pointing out that you were objectively wrong.

To some it sounds like assault. To some calling a woman stupid is sexism. To some micro-aggressions are real problems. Some people think transracial is a thing. Some people think "virtual rape" is a thing.

Some people are dumb. Only Trump knows his actual meaning behind what he said. But it's open to interpretation to an extent. However, he did not say "you should grab women by their pussies". That's patently false, yet that's exactly what you were saying he said.

While ironically talking about false narratives that everyone else is pushing.

[–]Winter_of_Discontent 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just kiss them, I don't even wait.

[–]Cashtronauts 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Right, he said he could do it. That's not much better, he's still condoning the action. Then there's the Planned Parenthood stuff mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

Obviously women have a reason to be upset or worried when someone like that is our in charge. If Hillary was elected and made it harder to get a vasectomy and talked about slapping men in the nuts people would rightfully be upset.

BTW, this article's "women in Saudi Arabia have it worse" argument pretty shitty. By that logic MRAs in the West have nothing to complain about because men in North Korea have it worse.

[–]cuteman 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He said if you're rich and famous that they LET you

[–]80brew 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I for one am glad slapping men in the nuts is frowned upon in this establishment country.

[–]FuckURedditor 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He said they'd let him. And most would.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (34子コメント)

Right? I forgot, hyperbolic speech = systematic oppression by the patriarchy. Give me a break.

[–]voksul 108 ポイント109 ポイント  (31子コメント)

You know how you feel like there's systematic biases in the world that prejudice men? That men are discriminated against in child custody cases, that adult men interacting with young children is unfairly tabooed, that male-targeted rape isn't taken seriously or punished, that men don't have the social support structure that women tend to have and "man up" is toxic, false rape allegations, and so on?

Women face similar, but unique problems of their own. Street harassment. Pressure to bear a child to be a true woman. Lack of respect when in a leadership role. Excessive sexualization or objectification of women. Societal pressures pushing women away from STEM. Rape dangers. Congressmen being fuckhats. And more.

A women pursuing solutions for the societal issues does not preclude or impair the solution to your own problems. A woman campaigning for feminist rights does not mean that men will be subjugated, just like how a man campaigning for men's rights issues does not necessarily mean that women will be suppressed. Both genders face unique issues that deserve to be addressed and both genders have the right to campaign for a solution. Neither party's actions have to sabotage the other.

Don't demonize feminists because of the extremist members of their movement. They're a radical minority that appears exaggerated by the 24/7 cycle of outrage porn perpetuated online. When you do that, you're feeding the stereotype that MRAs are just women-hating neckbeards and delegitimizing the issues that men face in society. While there's significantly more radical MRAs online due to the movement's unfortunate oppositionary core, the problems brought up by the Men's Rights movement should not be ignored because of those people.

When both sides can calmly discuss their issues, it is then we can solve the issues that we all face.

[–]usc886 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Your absolutely right. The difference is when men bring up these issues, we're labeled "privileged" or "sexist" and told we live in a "bubble" and are incapable of understanding how "privileged" we are.

Meanwhile women are empowered by their peers, the media, and society in general.

[–]another_busted_robot 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (5子コメント)

You're not really labeled any of those things by sane people. The real problem is that the outrageous shit spouted by idiots gets so much attention. Fuck, every stupid thing that gets posted on tumblr by some nobody moron gets posted here, and upvoted and ranted about as if it's been some declaration of fact by someone important, and then we end up in this stupid endless circle jerk battle of who's more oppressed instead of working together to make sure shit is fair for everyone.

[–]JonnyRichter 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I know plenty of people personally who post things on Facebook and instagram that support the narrative you are denying happens. Yet I don't know a single guy who would post anything to call them out. Because there is a huge fear that they will be personally attacked for doing so. It's real. This is the time we live in now; where anti-Feminism is inherently misogynist.

[–]yaypudding 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's like when we grow up, you can either face your problems or blame others. Saying I can do this because they did that, is childish and continues a perpetual cycle of bullshit. Both groups do this, mostly by those who have so much hate they want revenge not equality. We just have to understand that most people are not the villians we make them out to be, and that we all deserve a bit more empathy.

[–]Vandechoz 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't demonize feminists because of the extremist members of their movement. They're a radical minority

...that has infested higher education and international politics, with no criticism from feminism. At best, you get "well that's not real feminism" after a single issue has been pointed out.

[–]RESET-REWIND 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was incorrect of him to use the word "should", but even using the correct phrasing doesn't really invalidate his point.

[–]Daemonicus 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am so tired of this false narrative.

Then stop lying to prove your point that Trump is an evil asshole. There's plenty of legitimate things you could point out that would do the same.

We elected a president that said you should grab women by their pussies.

Meaningless jock talk. Should we prosecute every teenager that screams about raping someone's mother when they get killed in CoD?

He promised and has already restricted funding for abortions, which many women view as their right.

He added a condition for NPOs in other countries to not promote abortion as a family planning tactic, unless that person is raped, or the pregnancy is due to incest, and other similar exceptions. If they were to promote abortion as a family planning tactic, then they wouldn't receive US funds.

This doesn't mean that other countries are banned from performing abortions, and it doesn't mean that anyone is the US is federally banned from performing abortions.

Women are voicing their protest at that reality

Except that what they view as reality is wrong.

and for promotion of women's rights generally.

That's fine, if that's what they were actually doing. But not everyone there was promoting that message.

This isn't hard to understand, and the false narratives promoted by posts like these just reinforce the line that the men's rights is anti-women.

What false narratives exactly?

It's the same narrative that says men shouldn't advocate for their rights because "they already have it good". It's a toxic sentiment on either side.

Women already have more rights than men. Supporting a march that says otherwise is moronic. A march, that has promoted violence, by the way, and conviction based on allegations.

That's what you want to support?

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (52子コメント)

Not having your abortion funded by the state isn't oppression. Not having access to government benefits isn't oppression.

[–]CyberTagi 74 ポイント75 ポイント  (49子コメント)

Except women instead has to turn to unsafe alternatives for abortions when cut funding forces clinics to shut down. This is not US only, but foreign organisations were granted funding as well. Less developed countries will be hit even harder, and at the same time people think women in the US are too privileged to protest for their own interests, like what about the women in the Middle-East? Yeah, this funding cut will sure help women in the Middle-East and Africa! Where women actually!!!1!1 are oppressed. Sounds like oppression to me when women have their services' funding cut, because we would rather have them die and get sick from unsafe abortions than provide clean and safe ones.

[–]ExpendableOne 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (13子コメント)

We elected a president that said you should grab women by their pussies.

You are the one painting a false narrative. His exact words were "when you are rich, they let you grab them by the pussy", which is clearly implying every form of consent feminists could possibly define. If a woman was to say something to one of girlfriends like "when you have huge tits, guys will let you do anything to them. They will even let you touch their dicks", no one would be in outrage over this or calling it sexual assault. And, honestly, I have heard a lot worse from women. "Grab them by the balls" is a phrase that is often used by women, even in politics, and is far more violent, hostile, toxic and gendered(sexist) implications.

He promised and has already restricted funding for abortions

He is not making abortion illegal and demanding public funding for abortion is a major entitlement by these women. You're talking about a country where literally basic healthcare is considered a commodity, and you expect the state to pay for abortion(which also happens to directly go against a lot of people's ethical/religious beliefs). Treating the situation like he is banning abortion is painting a false narrative. Do you understand how fucked up it is to make this a bigger issue than universal healthcare(if not specifically because it only affects women)?

Women are voicing their protest at that reality, and for promotion of women's rights generally.

Women are voicing their hatred of a candidate who won fairly, for things that he didn't do. It is an entirely juvenile and unjustified protest that these women are flocking to by the thousands out of sheer ignorance and, in all reality, entirely driven by a very visible hatred and contempt for men.

[–]-bruce- 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (12子コメント)

You are the one painting a false narrative. His exact words were "when you are rich, they let you grab them by the pussy", which is clearly implying every form of consent feminists could possibly define.

Don't agree with you there. As I mention elsewhere, when he says "they let you do anything" it can be reasonably viewed as suggesting that the power imbalance from being a star allows him to get away vs they consent to it. I think reasonable people can disagree.

He is not making abortion illegal and demanding public funding for abortion is a major entitlement by these women. Treating the situation like he is banning abortion is painting a false narrative.

You are right, my language was not very clear. But he is certainly actively reducing access.

The point I was making is that there is a false narrative that the women didn't have a point to their protest, not that everyone has to agree with their positions.

Women are voicing their hatred of a candidate who won fairly, for things that he didn't do. It is an entirely juvenile and unjustified protest that these women are flocking to by the thousands out of sheer ignorance and, in all reality, entirely driven by a very visible hatred and contempt for men.

I don't share your opinion. I know many women who marched, and they marched for the reasons I suggested, not for hatred of men.

[–]throwapoo56 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Don't agree with you there. As I mention elsewhere, when he says "they let you do anything" it can be reasonably viewed as suggesting that the power imbalance from being a star allows him to get away vs they consent to it. I think reasonable people can disagree.

Barf. ''Power imbalance'' is gynocentric doublespeak to cover up their mating strategies and all across the board golddigging and shit-testing.

[–]GhostRider22 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

it can be reasonably viewed as suggesting that the power imbalance from being a star allows him to get away vs they consent to it.

No it doesnt. Not unless you are looking to make a victim.

I know many women who marched, and they marched for the reasons I suggested, not for hatred of men.

We know different people. .

[–]WordEngineer 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

No kidding. It's the ol' "You think you've got it rough? This person from a totally different country and culture has worse issues than you so you shouldn't feel you have to do anything to speak up on your behalf as a woman and American citizen."

It's not much evolved from "People in Africa are starving. Eat your beets."

[–]LucifersHammerr 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Except we're talking about people living in the same society.

This thread is a truly remarkable example of gynocentrism. Feminists claiming that paying a few bucks for tampons is somehow equivalent to not being able to see one's own children. It's a microcosm of the grand canyon sized empathy gap between the sexes.

[–]Terminal-Psychosis 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's because the thread hit /all, and the Men's Lib crowd are swarming in to derail and add to the confusion.

Just another example of the institutionalized sexism (against men) that society in general displays and promotes.

[–]upsidedownbackwards 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Exactly. As much as it's really not fair that a man has no choice if his son/daughter is aborted there isn't a way to make it fair. It is her body. There is no way to make everything "fair", there will always be discrepancies based on biology. Men get jobs that need more strength. That shouldn't be any more of an argument than women making the choice on a child's life because it's their body. Men are stronger. Women have to bear the worst part of pregnancy and have a high chance of permanently changing their life/body. Those are the facts. What they mean is shaped completely by opinions. Neither side should force their opinions hard enough to blur the facts beyond recognition.

[–]LucifersHammerr 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Exactly. As much as it's really not fair that a man has no choice if his son/daughter is aborted there isn't a way to make it fair. It is her body. There is no way to make everything "fair

Sure there is. Equal rights. That means male parental surrender. Right now it's "her body her choice." But it's also "his body her choice." Men are currently forced to become indentured servants for 18 years even if they don't want the kid. Surprisingly traditionalists are actually more intellectually consistent on this issue than feminists. They want to criminalize abortion but also demand a man pay child support. Feminists think women should have legal control over a man's body.

Also, men should have equal parenting rights in the event that both the man and the woman decide to raise a child. Feminists currently oppose this.

[–]Winter_of_Discontent 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been subbed here for a solid 3-4 years. I can't speak to the movement as a whole, but this subreddit is vehemently anti-women. For a little while I thought it was a minority, then a vocal minority, but no, this sub is just women hating trash. I've had arguments on this sub with men talking about how all women are actively trying to kill all men, how all marital rape laws should be repealed, et cetera.

It's really, really sad. Men face real issues in the world. Circumcision, custody, the Draft, mass incarceration... And yet all this sub likes to talk about is how terrible women are. Posts like these are a dime a dozen. Women have literally no problems in society bullshit.

I really wish that the mods would crack down. Get rid of all the /r/redpill bullshit. Talk about how to help men rather than how to antagonize women and destroy feminism.

[–]AppleMangoPineapple 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Disclaimer: I'm a guy but I'm not a part of this sub. I don't know if guys here disagree with me or not. These are my personal opinions.

We... as in men AND women, elected Trump president. This is everyone's responsibility. The issue is not really that he said that. People can say anything they want in private, save for making direct threats and stuff. The issue was that people still voted for him. Blame the media for that. Or blame people for researching improperly before voting. Or blame them for not voting. The other issue was that Trump won by a landslide even though he lost the popular vote. Seriously, he won by like 70 electoral votes or some shit? Without winning the popular vote? That's fucked up. Something needs to change about that and it's right to protest about it. No wonder people aren't voting.. it's a complete joke. Their vote ACTUALLY doesn't matter in this system. But yeah, electing Trump isn't oppression on women.

Restricting funding for abortion isn't really oppressing women, either. It's a capitalist economy, you pay for your own health, which includes abortion. If women end up getting pregnant, they should have taken care of their bodies and used a contraceptive. If it didn't work, that is the risk they took, pay for the abortion. Biology is sexist, not legislation in this case. Arguing for abortion funding is fine. It's good actually, and I support it, but it's not oppression.

Arguing for a blanket statement like, "Women are oppressed, they need more rights" is exactly how you get ignored. If people challenge women on their claims, they either need to defend their claims or change them so that they are defendable. This blog post was a critique on the women's rights movement, that they are making false claims on oppression and rights. Instead of deconstructing its argument and rebutting, you just dismissed it as a false narrative and echoed the same things it was critiquing you on. You're focusing way too much on the intent of the sub and the author to be "anti women."

and for promotion of women's rights generally.

See what I mean? WHAT rights? The blog post wanted to know exactly which rights women don't have in this country so that, if anything, the discussion can be taken further. Calling any counterargument anti-women and exaggerating your own issues is what causes people to not care about what you have to say.

If you want to convince people of the other side, you need to start addressing THEIR points instead of regurgitating your own.

[–]lethrowaway4me 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (7子コメント)

restricted funding for abortions, which many women view as their right.

Women view the ability to have an abortion is their right. Okay... But why does it need to be federally funded as well?? Removing the funding isn't the same as removing the access. PP may be able to still perform the procedure but it may cost women more money to do so. Is that what this is about? Women having to pay for things they want/need? That's not oppression, that's entitlement.

[–]BeefHarbor 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Federal funding doesn't go to abortion. That law has been on the books since the 70s.

[–]ManiacMac 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, even before Trump signed anything no money given to PP from the government was allowed to be used in abortions. PP does a lot more than just provided abortions and defunding them does not defund abortions.

[–]-bruce- 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't disagree with you that is is up for debate whether the government should fund planned parenthood. But I am tired of the narrative promoted by this article that it is a "mystery" what women were protesting. This is a current service where the government is actively reducing access.

If the government reduced funding for a program that supports men, wouldn't we protest?

[–]runnyyyy 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (1子コメント)

why does this shit have so many upvotes.. content like this is destroying this sub the same way as some feminists destroyed the idea of feminism

[–]azazelcrowley 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you check comments it seems people are arguing against it.

[–]DrewFlan 95 ポイント96 ポイント  (80子コメント)

This is garbage. The author of this article didn't address Planned Parenthood at all, which was a major point of contention for many of the women who marched.

[–]cgsur 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Many are parroting lies told to them as facts.

Everybody should listen to both sides of any argument, once you start labeling others with insults, and stop listening to their arguments, you are being used as a tool and are brainwashed, and both sides of the political spectrum are guilty of this.

The truth is there is things in common with conservatives and liberals, things like justice, costs, honesty, etc. Yet for political reasons people are being trained to avoid dialogue and meaningful compromising.

Time wasted mixing women's rights , religion and politics. Is time not dedicated to fighting corruption, and mismanagement and cronyism.

Women's and Men's rights and everybodies else's of any gender or race are important. But they are also used to distract from real issues which should be important to all. Divide and conquer is not just a saying.

PP does not use states funds to fund abortions, read both sides, understand.

And in other countries that use state funds for women's public health, because church and state are kept separate it makes economic sense, again read both sides, understand.

Everything should be doubted, every counter argument considered.

You cannot even trust yourself, remember those dumb ideas you had, remember that ex you had, and you though that hooking up was a great idea....

[–]staticsnake 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

...and they still didn't address SPECIFIC issues with planned parenthood. Instead they simply scream bloody murder and oppression any time anyone might touch their precious clinics.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (72子コメント)

How is a denial of state benefits oppression? Defunding planned parenthood equals oppression towards women like ending corn subsidies is oppression against farmers.

[–]verdis 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (69子コメント)

Taking away access to abortion takes away a woman's right to control her own body. Not having the right to control your own body is the very definition of oppression.

And Planned Parenthood is a critical point of access.

[–]Hirudin 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Having a right is not the same as having someone else pay for you to use it, doubly so when the people paying don't have that right at all. Men are, overwhelmingly, the payers of taxes. And women are, overwhelmingly, the receivers of taxpayer funded services.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (46子コメント)

You have the right to an abortion, no one ever said you have the right to a state funded abortion. You are saying that not only should people be allowed to have abortions, the rest of the country should be forced via taxation with the threat of jail to fund them. Abortion should be legal, the state doesn't need to be paying for it.

[–]rtechie1 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/verdis is confused. The issue is women (and men) losing access to medical care provided by Planned Parenthood like pap smears and contraception. 92% of Planned Parenthood funding does not go to abortion. Eliminating all Federal funding for Planned Parenthood will reduce people's access to these health care services.

Eliminating all Federal funding for Planned Parenthood is something the Republican Party has wanted to do for a long time.

[–]staticsnake 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Abortion should be legal

It is federally. The arguments begin because people want it to be completely free for women's "health" and "choice" and everyone has an opinion at what stage in pregnancy abortion is okay.

[–]verdis 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (40子コメント)

But since they currently are then taking away PP funding reduces access to abortion, which oppressed women.

You want to change the funding mix for PP, go nuts. But don't suggest suddenly cutting funding to a major abortion access point isn't harmful to women. Or that it's unreasonable for women to be upset about this.

[–]iasazo 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The removal of an entitlement does not equal oppression. You can still argue that it is harmful to women, it just isn't oppression.

When a tax cut expires, I am not oppressed because an entitlement I once enjoyed was taken away. It is harmful to me but not oppression.

[–]Hirudin 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The right to bodily integrity is a right (except if you're a man apparently). Getting money taken without consent from someone else is a privilege.

[–]FastFourierTerraform 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

But don't suggest suddenly cutting funding to a major abortion access point isn't harmful to women

Of course it's harmful. Just like how raising the tax rate for the top bracket is harmful to billionaires. Government funding is a zero sum game. Any time anything changes, someone is harmed by it. But don't confuse harm with oppression. I'll give you an example- I was a recipient of a federally funded scholarship for a few years. One day, the program got abruptly cancelled. I used to be given free money, and then it stopped. It sucked, and I was pissed off, and it wasn't fair. But it wasn't oppression.

I can empathize with women who are angry. It sucks to have something taken away from you. But for the rest of us, who have never had any reproductive rights in the first place, it's hard to agree with the notion that this constitutes oppression.

If abortion were made illegal, that would be a different matter. That is the erosion of a right that women currently enjoy. However, in recent years, I've gotten colder towards the assumption that I would be up in arms in that scenario. I think the best shot at men gaining reproductive rights is to just start over from square 1. Men have stayed frozen at the year 1900 in terms of reproductive rights, while women have gradually gained total liberation, often at the expense of men. We need a new sexual revolution, where we can create a new social contract. How about something like this: everyone has the right to bodily integrity, everyone has the right to effective contraception. Consent to sex is not consent to parenthood, for anyone. Everyone has default equal access to the progeny that they have brought about by legal means.

[–]LucifersHammerr 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your suggestions are way too logical to appeal to the hysterics populating this thread.

[–]Reddit1990 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That isn't oppression, that's inconvenience. It would be oppression if it was outlawed by the government.

Doesn't have to be oppression for it to be a good cause though, you can still advocate it with protests.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (34子コメント)

The PP access was a benefit to begin with, so removing a benefit, not a right, is not oppression. Being harmful and being oppressive are not the same thing. Removing corn subsidies all at once is harmful to farmers, but it isn't oppressive. No one is stopping you from getting an abortion, they are just taking away the state funded option which maybe shouldn't have ever been there in the first place.

[–]verdis 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (30子コメント)

Being able to have an abortion isn't a benefit, it's a right. Taking away the largest provider of that benefit, without there being a replacement, is oppressive because it does stop people from having abortions they would have otherwise. That's pretty elementary.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (7子コメント)

You have the legal right to have an abortion, meaning that clinics are free to open and offer abortions and you have the right to attend that clinic and have the abortion. No where in there does it say that you have the right to have a planned parenthood clinic down the street. You have the legal right to have an abortion, you don't have the right to have a clinic down the street. THAT is pretty elementary. I have the right to attend college if I live in a rural area, that doesn't mean that you have to build a college down the street for me in order to satisfy that right. Making your drive to the abortion clinic take an extra 45 minutes is not oppression.

[–]Blarneystone2 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (6子コメント)

You have the legal right to have health care in your state, meaning that Hospitals are free to open and offer health care and you have the right to attend that hospital and receive healthcare. No where in there does it say that you have the right to have a hospital in your state. You have the legal right to have health care, you don't have the right to have a hospital in your state. THAT is pretty elementary. I have the right to attend college if I live in a rural area, that doesn't mean that you have to build a college down the street for me in order to satisfy that right. Making your drive to the abortion clinic take an extra 45 minutes is not oppression.

See, how ridiculous your argument sounds when you switch up a few words, the reality is that PP services communities that are urban and immobile, it is not as simple as picking up in the car and driving to ye old abortion clinic in place like kentucky there is 1 location to have procedure done, I agree that every small town does not need a clinic, just like every small town does not get a hospital, hell some counties do not have hospitals but if a there is a population sizable enough to be serviced by a medium to large sized hospital then there should also be a place where abortion is available.

[–]themeteorpolice 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually that argument still makes perfect sense. If you go out in the middle of my state, chances are you aren't gonna have great health care options. Because there are less people there. It's all moot for me anyway though, because I believe abortion is NOT a right in any way whatsoever. Murder never should be.

[–]zue3 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lmao you literally change his argument so you have something to be pissed off about.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well that argument does sound ridiculous, because you don't have a right to healthcare. Also, having access to medical care is fundamentally different from having access to an abortion. Medical issues can be life or death requiring immediate remedy, you have a huge time window to get an abortion.

but if a there is a population sizable enough to be serviced by a medium to large sized hospital then there should also be a place where abortion is available.

Sure, let private companies open these institutions then. Why is it the government's job to provide abortion services?

[–]Reddit1990 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (20子コメント)

One could argue its my "right" to not have to pay for other people's life choices, that it should be the person's own money that pays for their own choice.

So the government comes along and reduces or removes funding. The public no longer pay for it... but the facilities are still allowed to perform their operations. The right to have the operation done isn't removed, its just that they no longer have the means to give cheap abortions. Its now a costly procedure and it is more difficult to find places that are willing to do it.

This isn't really oppression, this is just the result of not actively supporting it financially. We have religious rights, but it doesn't mean that the government should fund churches. We have free speech, but it doesnt mean the government should fund a website or newspaper for me. The church isn't oppressed, the news media isn't oppressed, they just aren't being financially supported by the government...

Now that said, I think abortion should be funded because I think the vast majority of people shouldn't be having kids... but its still not oppression.

[–]lethrowaway4me 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (6子コメント)

But, is PP the only point of access for abortions? Taking one option away is not the same as taking all options away.

[–]GuinnessWithinUs 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

In lots of states it very nearly is, yes. Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming each have only one clinic statewide. Planned Parenthood uses private donations to partially subsidize abortion costs for the poorest women seeking one, and there's no guarantee that a private clinic will do the same. A number of states have had dozens of clinics close over the past few years through overbearing legislation that seeks to make an abortion all but inaccessible.

From Wikipedia: According to the Guttmacher Institute, 31% of women in rural areas traveled over 100 miles in order to receive an abortion while another 43% traveled between 50–100 miles. 87% of US counties do not have any clinics at all that will provide those services.

So yes, while still legal, actually obtaining an abortion is exceedingly difficult for many women in need of one. Removing state funding from the equation and assuming women will pay for the procedure on their own, you're still asking statistically low-income women to either have their own transportation, or foot a potentially expensive travel bill that a state hopes will keep an abortion out of her budget. Let's also keep in mind that these clinic closings don't make a distinction between pregnant women who had consensual sex and pregnant women who were raped. A woman could still be recovering from a violent sexual crime and be saddled with the unenviable choice of either carrying her rapist's baby to term, or coming up with the money for not just the abortion, but the potentially 100+ miles of travel to get to a provider, all of which might be entirely impractical or impossible for that woman.

It doesn't really strike me as much of a leap to equate the active attempt by multiple state governments as well as the federal government to do as much as possible to prevent women from exercising their right with "oppression." Would 2nd Amendment advocates not equate burdensome and redundant gun ownership legislation as a barrier to entry with "oppression" as well? I know they would, because you see it constantly. What's the difference here?

[–]Blarneystone2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

the only point of access, though this kind of talk is refershing coming from /r/polishits and /r/news

[–]nachtliche 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Making other people pay for your shit isn't a right.

[–]Awfulcopter 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Author equates not being the most oppressed with not oppressed at all. That's the article. "Are things as bad for you as they are for Saudi Women? No? then things are perfect."

[–]LaterGatorPlayer 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the author is showing that women in America have all the same rights and privileges that men have. And they are comparing that equality to the inequality of other places where women do not have the same rights as men. Having the juxtaposition is a great way to compare and contrast reality versus perceived feelings of inequality. Women in today's America have the same exact rights as they had last month.

[–]supercold1 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (14子コメント)

They're about to lose abortion rights. I've been MRA for years, but I think they have a legitimate concern, here. Let them protest.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (7子コメント)

This wasn't just about abortion rights, though. At that, most were angry about planned parenthood defunding. Not having the state fund your abortion isn't oppression

[–]supercold1 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Except planned parenthood doesn't take federal funding to pay for abortions. They simply provide the service, but women have to pay for it. The cost is usually mitigated by negotiating a stipend from research labs for the viable tissues, but that's it.

downvoting me doesn;t change reality

[–]Ninja_Arena 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I kind of get the impression that this thread is full of a lot of people wanting to complain about the rally but don't know the exact reason why and are doing their best to ignore any arguments for why the rally may have been justified and ultimately, why is was good to have, even if it was a little dramatic.
My suspicion is, the rally wasn't about sucking Donald dick so gotta figure out a reason to bash it. Think there's a bit of a make America/alt right overlap with some MRAs so we are going to have to deal with posts like these

[–]peruytu 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And you're ok with unwanted children running around taking up more of the resources that don't have available under Trump? Planned Parenthood is not only for abortion, it's also for regular health services for women who otherwise wouldn't have anywhere else to go, or don't have insurance. What's wrong without our government funding something that important? While the government is funding oil companies, corporations, etc... using our tax money for corporate welfare, you're here complaining about women's health.

I used to like this subreddit, but it looks like Trumpers have taken off. That's a damn shame.

[–]Mike-Hawks 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't consider myself a feminist and I think a lot of it is ridiculous and goes overboard, but this march was very necessary. And this article is complete garbage.

So the argument is, if Women here have it better than they do in Saudi Arabia then you aren't oppressed? Why the fuck are we using the middle east as a measuring stick for whether or not you are oppressed.

None of these feminists think they have it worse than Women in the Middle East. This is so dumb...

[–]verdis 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I truly hope you can understand the relationship between human rights and the laws that support them. Your arguments suggest you don't, which is unfortunate.

I would encourage you to meet with people who support abortion rights, and who provide abortion services. I think you'll find the factors involved more nuanced than you seem willing to admit.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I have lost the argument, so I will just tell the person that they don't understand things and encourage them to talk to someone else who can explain my point of view better

[–]verdis 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Wouldn't it be nice if this were a competition with winners and losers. Life would be a lot easier that way.

You are clearly deeply committed to your beliefs. It's been my experience that my deeply held beliefs are tempered when I talk openly with people who hold opposite beliefs. Maybe you would have the same experience if you met with people who work in the world of abortion services.

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Maybe I would, and I would have hoped you would offer some supporting evidence or argumentation for your side beyond "I have X right so the government has to pay for it". What experience have you had with people working in abortion services that would change my view?

[–]verdis 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Making this conversation about who is paying for abortion seems to be focusing on the wrong thing. The decision to have an abortion or not is a deeply complex, often painful, and personal one. A very important decision that cannot be taken back. In my view any discussion of abortion should start with that clearly in mind. Compassion and concern for the woman who is in this undesirable position, whether thru her choices or not, is much, much more important than where the money comes from, or one persons moral beliefs over another's. I think if you spoke to people intimately involved in abortion services you would hear a lot of stories about the human suffering that often accompanies abortion, and would support the notion that abortion access should be open, and abortions rare.

[–]graffiti81 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Give me a fucking break. We've got a libertarian redditor (because nobody else would be retarded enough to name a blog don't step on snek) who instead of preaching liberty and freedom to say and think what one wants is telling women to sit down and shut up.

LO fucking L

[–]aG_Infamous[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

These women have every right to protest, that doesn't mean their reason for doing so isn't stupid. Libertarians believe in freedom of thought and expression, so that goes both ways.

[–]skywreckdemon 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is an awful article. Before I am accused of being against men's rights, I definitely am not. I just think this particular article is shit.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The Tampon Tax in California amounts to women paying an extra $7 a month for their hygiene products.

Well, I found the guy who has never bought a box of tampons for a woman.

A box sells for $6 to $8, the tax on that amount would be about $0.50 cents ish, not $7.00.

We can argue that tampons should be tax exempt, if we also agree that other hygiene items should also be, but let's not pretend that the 50 cents a month women are paying in "tampon tax" is the greatest injustice anyone has ever known.

[–]truthserum23 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This makes too much sense. Logic should not be expected when the objective is ambiguous and irrational.

[–]Elephantwalker 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (12子コメント)

This is the post that is going to make me unsubscribe. I didn't think anyone was disputing women's issues, maybe the extent at the least. I thought we were here to discuss and bring attention to real men's issues like unfair divorce settlement, media treatment, statutory laws, etc. posts like this are ridiculous and take away from real problems

[–]flannelsoup 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn this got red pill real quick

[–]a_trashcan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why do you people always act like women's rights are separate from men's rights in this sub? An article like this also dismisses the entire men's rights issue, not just the womens rights issue. How don't you guys see this?

[–]Ninja_Arena 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. Welcome to the struggle of belonging to the MRA sub

[–]Shirakawasuna 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

This sub seems to subscribe to the belief that fighting for equal rights means you need to belittle women's rights.

This is why you aren't taken seriously. Most of the comments that aren't critical of the post are just veiled attacks on women or arguing that women are privileged. No advocacy against a specific equality injustice, no organizing marches or political campaigns of your own. Just negativity directed at women, naive arguments that access to healthcare isn't an issue for them, etc.

You're the male equivalents of the anti-man feminist stereotype and I don't understand how you don't see it.

[–]Ninja_Arena 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's the biggest problem with the last two years, groups and movements that were established to combat bigotry, unironically in their eyes, acting like the biggest bigots out there. From some BLM leaders being blatantly racist and sexist, to feminist and MRAs being overtly sexist when discussing and blaming (but often not offering real solutions) others based on gender. It leads to limited or no progress and gets all the idiots controlling the narrative in the media of all these important movements.
You are all angry, we get it! Stop sabotaging actual discourse.

[–]Meyright 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

arguing that women are privileged

Because there is strong evidence they are.

no organizing marches or political campaigns of your own.

Its been tried. Nobody gives a shit about men and even then, feminists will try to shut you down.

Just negativity directed at women,

Not true. The negativity is directed against feminists.

naive arguments that access to healthcare isn't an issue for them, etc.

Most healthcare funding goes to women.

You're the male equivalents of the anti-man feminist stereotype

Whatever you're trying to say, sounds like a compliment, so thanks

If you're interested in the topic of mens rights, there will be a movie realesed called "The Red Pill" in some time on Netflix. This movie will give you all the answers to the questions you will have regarding my post.

[–]cullins1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hey according to his little quiz he could also say that African Americans immediately following the emancipation proclamation and the end of the civil war were not prosecuted against either. Whew, that's a load off!

[–]splodgenessabounds 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can always tell when a post on men's rights hits the reddit front page. I can even - going by time elapsed and UPVOTES FTW - tell when this one fell off the front page.

[–]bradtwo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Keep in mind this is the same group of people who ignore the fact that when they participate in the pink ribbon marches more of the money they collect go to the CeOs than the research.

They don't want change. They just want to feel good about what they are doing. Positive group reinforcement. That is all.

[–]bomi3ster 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can feel the fat women pressing that donwvote button here. You are not oppressed if you are a women in America. Go fight a good fight instead of taking a stand that does not matter.

[–]DervishHaydar 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is this menrights or lets whine and bitch about girls?

[–]RubyOrchid13 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actual majority of population, who vote at a higher percentage than men, who live longer lives, suffer homlessness several orders of magnitude less, don't have to sign up for the draft to vote, who are the majority of students in universities, don't work a fraction of the dangerous and dirty jobs men do to keep modern society running, have a huge advantage in the case of divorce... Muh oppression!

[–]SF_CrawNik 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't mean to sound like an ass. But what rights do they not have that men have? I've never seen a competent posts from them that I haven't just laughed at. I'm assuming 99% of the signs are kind of cherry picked on here.

[–]PraiseStalin 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"The future is female"

Now that's equality!

[–]nonmillenial 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

starts a slow clap

[–]Katastic_Voyage 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Massive brigading indeed.

[–]Hirudin 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

At best, this march was a protest about the loss of a privilege (having abortions paid for by others); a privilege financed, ironically and overwhelmingly, by men who do not have the right to bodily autonomy that the feminists think women are losing.