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/r/sandersforpresident continues to be shit (reddit.com)

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[–]smapho 97 ポイント98 ポイント  (10子コメント)

You mean /r/NeoNazisPretendingToBeSandersSupporters?

[–]Wowbagger1 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Some are. But that sub has a big problem with so many Bern or Busters/Dr. Jake Stein fanbois. The funniest part is that they said Clinton was too "conservative to vote for in the GE" but want to prop up Tulsi Gabbard as a presidential candidate despite being much conservative than Clinton.

The most "progressive" thing she did was endorse Bernie. And that was mostly out of political opportunity.

[–]RushofBlood52 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Jake

oh god I forgot about that

How is it that our presidential campaigns included stuff like "Jake" and "no puppet! no puppet!"?

[–]JeffInTheShoebox 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I missed the Jake thing, can you explain?

[–]RushofBlood52 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sanders went on CNN to interview with Wolf Blitzer and kept calling Wolf "Jake," even after Wolf corrected him.

[–]clarabutt 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I know a few of these Berniecrats in real life. They really do hate Donald Trump. But they have this irrational hatred of Clinton that they are holding onto even though the election ended fucking months ago. It feels like they're more driven by disdain for people than passion for any particular issues.

[–]progressivemedialist 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, that's the problem when a lot of newcomers to politics are brought in without any context or experience prior to 2016. Such a heated and contested race was not a good environment for the political development of these people - some of them went off the deep end. (Hell even some Clinton supporters have lost touch with reality.)

They don't see Gabbard for the opportunist she is. She does have some genuine progressive bona fides under her belt policy-wise, but some of her views are pretty reactionary, which I think stem from her right-wing father and Hindu nationalism(?). It doesn't help that Clinton supporters alienated them so hard, so early on. They'll just double-down and latch on to anyone who supported Bernie in some tribalistic show of loyalty and closing ranks. Hopefully that crowd will mature in the years to come and stop being such shitheads about these things.

I do wish that people would stop trying to portray them as representative of the movement though. It's really insulting to those of us who have waited for a decade(s) for someone on the left to gain so much traction.

edit for additional thoughts: I find it ironic that Hilary-supporters so often talk about purity when discussing the left, yet they demand just that from all Bernie supporters. The thing about mass electoral movements in fluid parties is that you can't control them for ideological rigidity and who joins them. When you have popular policies, obviously huge cross-sections of the American public will support you. It was a huge achievement of the Sanders campaign of bringing these people into politics. It's not his or our fault that the infrastructure doesn't really exist for proper political education of millions of people on the fly. This is a failure of the Democratic party. And there's plenty of unsavory reactionary elements in the Clinton coalition too, but they never will own up to it.

[–]Zeeker12 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Iunno, Obama drew a ton of new people to the political process and managed not to run a total fucking shitshow of a campaign/post-campaign.

The Sanders campaign owns a ton of this shit, for better or worse. They were hijacked, yes, but there were PLENTY of people telling them they were being hijacked as it happened. And they didn't do anything.

[–]Teresa_May 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

She does have some genuine progressive bona fides

She really doesn't. She's one of the most right leaning Democrats in the House of Representatives.

[–]DigitalSpace-D 70 ポイント71 ポイント  (47子コメント)

What the fuck is even the point of that subreddit? They don't even like Bernie at this point as they just move into alt-right territory.

[–]RushofBlood52 66 ポイント67 ポイント  (44子コメント)

as they just move into alt-right territory.

That's the point of that subreddit.

[–]DigitalSpace-D 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (42子コメント)

There's literally just blatant praise for Trump in a thread that is about Bernie denouncing Trump

Bernie was a mistake

[–]DoogieHueserMD 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (10子コメント)

The sub for some reason has remained as a way for radicalizing past Bernie primary voters and getting them to join the alt-right. How the mods don't see that I have no idea.

[–]Zeeker12 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (9子コメント)

It was a subreddit to radicalize dumb young white men long before the primaries were over. That's why the original mods shut it down.

The mods see it. It's working exactly as intended.

[–]DoogieHueserMD 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Oh are none of the original mods around anymore? I thought they would have shut it down again seeing how it's being used, but if they aren't around that explains why it's being allowed to be used in the way it is.

[–]Wowbagger1 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

IIRC, none of the mods who voted to close the sub are on the current moderation crew. The remaining ones are the true diehards I assume.

[–]Zeeker12 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not sure who all the original mods were, but I know at least two of them who actually worked on Sanders campaign blasted the subreddit and shut it down right before the DNC.

Pretty sure they moved over to the Political Revolution subreddit.

[–]DoogieHueserMD 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (5子コメント)

But that sub is also terrible! Maybe having the first candidate I supported be Obama was a formative experience for me that turned out for the better, but everything I see out of the Sanders' subs just reeks of inexperience with the system.

Edit: And it also reeks of people wanting to burn down society because a candidate they liked lost.

[–]Zeeker12 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, well, that's the dirty little secret. Bernie had plenty of actually great supporters who are just really liberal or even further left.

But his success came largely because people who would have voted for Trump if they were 20 years older latched onto him.

It was never an ideologically coherent movement. And it was astroturfed from the drop.

[–]ZimZimA1 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Meh. A lot of the original Obama supporters were young and inexperienced as well.

The difference is that they were kept on a leash, and are now mature.

[–]DoogieHueserMD 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I was saying that having my candidate win the primary kept me from being a fucking idiot in my first election. There were the Party Unity My Ass people in 2008, but it was mostly older women. They make up a necessary demo for the Dems, but I don't think it's as big a deal as the youth vote.

[–]Photo_Evangelist 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (29子コメント)

I don't think Bernie was a mistake. He got me more interested in politics than I've ever been, including a lot of other progressive friends I have. Bernie Bros though, they were a mistake.

[–]DigitalSpace-D 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (28子コメント)

The way he got people interested in politics was making them full of boiling rage at just about anyone who wasn't him. The resentment and distrust for Hillary Clinton that he stoked carried into the general election and undermined her among voters who she would've represented excellently. It called pure speculation and conspiracy theory into the forefront of political discourse when things weren't going his way simply talking policy. Bernie appealing to being "the outsider" aided the Trump campaign.

[–]Photo_Evangelist 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (27子コメント)

Not really his fault though. And he begged his people to vote for Hillary. The fact that people went from voting for Bernie in the primary to voting for Trump shows a complete lack of critical thought in the voters, not in Bernie.

[–]DigitalSpace-D 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (24子コメント)

It is partially his fault. He stirred up resentment so much that even when he changed his tune, people didn't believe him. He didn't campaign half as hard for Hillary as he could've and came off as half hearted.

He had a responsibility to not manipulate people based on their crude and misplaced fears and he tapped into that for his support long past the point where we all knew he had no chance at winning.

[–]RobosapienLXIV 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (8子コメント)

It is partially his fault. He stirred up resentment so much that even when he changed his tune, people didn't believe him. He didn't campaign half as hard for Hillary as he could've and came off as half hearted.

Did you not see the Obama and Clinton debates or any previous primary? They criticized each other harshly as well, yet no one would say Hillary's harsh criticisms affected Obama. Hillary also went hard on Bernie, so it wasn't a one-way attack. It's normal to attack opponents, claiming he "stirred resentment" is just too reductive. Obama himself postured himself as an outsider and also claimed Hillary was just a standard Washington politician. A clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD9F1t9GQzA So would you say Obama also created resentment and manipulated emotions?

He didn't campaign half as hard for Hillary as he could've and came off as half hearted.

He campaigned more times for Hillary than Hillary herself leading up to the elections. I wish had the link, but I will try to find it.

Hillary barely campaigned on the Rust belt and Midwest, ignoring Bill's advice http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/clinton-did-almost-nothing-to-court-whites-in-the-rust-belt.html Bernie campaigned on these very same key areas for her http://fox6now.com/2016/10/05/bernie-sanders-holds-campaign-rallies-for-hillary-clinton-in-madison-green-bay/

[–]Zeeker12 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Hillary didn't lay a single glove on Bernie. She focused entirely on policy. Literally the worst thing she said was that after his disastrous NYDN interview that he didn't sound very prepared for the office... And that was charitable, if you watched the entire interview.

There's a 30-year public oppo file on the man that they were VERY, VERY careful not to dip into.

[–]Photo_Evangelist 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Blaming Bernie for Hillary losing is just as silly as the people who keep blaming the DNC and Hillary for Trump's victory. Or the constant "This is why Trump won" comments.

[–]DigitalSpace-D 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (13子コメント)

It's the antithesis of those comments. The fact that those comments exist at all is due to the outrage Bernie manufactured and amplified to the point where he couldn't take it back. His campaign is partially at fault for that. This is an easily defensible point. Hillary lost for a lot of reasons. Bernie shitslinging his way through the end of his campaign is an obvious one of those reasons.

[–]Photo_Evangelist 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I understand where you're coming from. And it does make sense. But you're basically saying Bernie shouldn't have spoke his mind and he should have be nicer during his campaign because Trump wouldn't have won otherwise. Maybe there's fact in that. But it's also ignoring the complete hatred the right has had for Hillary for 20 years.

Bernie getting people fired up about progressive ideas is not why Trump won. Blaming the speaker for how some listeners responded is a waste of time when the speaker spelled out everything for those listening. If they ignored what he was actually saying, it's not his fault.

[–]Nurglings[S] 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

At this point they exist to give us a perfect example of what "brogressive" means.

[–]Halyconnn 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (5子コメント)

You know, most subs dont really care when they get linked to this sub. But man, s4p REALLY hates being mentioned here. The comments get downvoted in record time(I think it took less than 10 minutes for this one), comments upon comments of them desperately defending themselves...its pretty damn hilarious.

My theory is a lot of the shit subs dont care they are shit, they even embrace it(for example, gaming subs embrace being toxic). But s4p desperately wants people to believe they still root for Bernie when its so obvious they have been overrun by Trumpers and the alt-right crowd. In that thread alone, I see multiple the_donald style rhetoric upvoted.

It would kinda be sad if it wasnt so funny.

[–]TheMechanicalWall 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's not only s4p members that come here to downvote and shitpost in these sorts of threads; you have a LOT of communists and other leftists in the metasphere who feel the need to go to bat for Sanders and his supporters despite spending the entire primary season dragging him for not being an actual socialist. They only started championing him once he became an effective bludgeon to use against the 'neoliberal shills' in this sub and other subs.

[–]Zeeker12 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, and it's kind of hilarious.

The communists on reddit got big old boners about recruiting the Bernie Bros to their cause... They don't even realize that the alt right and the Russians had already beaten them to that, well before the primaries were over.

[–]DoogieHueserMD 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair a lot of communists who circlejerk about stupid shit on /r/FULLCOMMUNISM and pretend to be a further left and more authoritarian Stalin have more in common with the reformists like Trotsky who would probably hesitantly support Sanders. A lot of internet communists are also stupid blowhard Soviet apologists which only hurts the perception of communism even more in liberal subs.

I know asking the left to get along is like asking the Scots and the English to share the island they're both on, but I just think it's funny at times. There's simultaneously a red scare and a centrists must die circlejerk in every left of center subreddit.

[–]ostrich_semen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're not alt-right, their interests just happen to align with the alt-right constantly. I mean, learn the difference, dumbo.

[–]BrunchBoi 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Jesus Christ that thread is shit. Those people think the are progressive?

Half of the thread is "ackshually it's not a Muslim ban"

They even have the same talking points as t_d.

Bernie was cool, but his fans on Reddit are fucking stupid.

[–]GrantSolarQUENTIN BLAKE 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (3子コメント)

What really winds me up about the "it's not a Muslim ban" is the fact that Trump was very explicit during the election that he was going to ban Muslims. Now he's banned people travelling from 7 middle-eastern states due to 'national security', not including nations responsible for the largest terror attack on the US.

Someone points out that the largest Muslim nations are not included. You'd think maybe it would click that the man who stated that "laziness is a trait in blacks" might be racist. Yet "being anti-muslim is not racist because Islam is a religion".

This act is the loudest, most unashamed dogwhistle I've ever known, yet berniebros double down on "actually, it's not islamophobic and it's not racist either because he's protected his business ventures in [middle-eastern state]"

I wonder which way these guys voted once bernie was out?

[–]RushofBlood52 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

not including nations responsible for the largest terror attack on the US.

And making special considerations for Christians coming from nations that were blocked.

[–]DeterminismMorality 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now he's banned people travelling from 7 middle-eastern states due to 'national security', not including nations responsible for the largest terror attack on the US.

I know you don't intend it as such but criticizing the ban because it doesn't ban the the right muslims is bad. All it does is lend credence to the idea that all muslims from a nation are dangerous if one of their countrymen committed an act of terrorism.

[–]GrantSolarQUENTIN BLAKE 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're absolutely right and that was not at all my intention, cheers for pointing that out.

[–]RobosapienLXIV 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I stayed off that sub for good soon after it got big. I don't even know why they reopened it, I respect Bernie himself but so many of his fans were so toxic and the Bernie or Bust was a stupid move when the man himself campaigned left and right for Hillary after he lost.

[–]KentuckyChicagoLine 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Allowing 18-22 year old white males to vote was a mistake

[–]Jeanpuetz 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think we'd be far worse off if we raised the average voter age even higher.

[–]KentuckyChicagoLine 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, it was just a snarky one liner - I agree, actually. What they should do is just let me vote. Just me.

[–]Zeeker12 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh look, they're being "progressive" again.

You can't even call them Alt Left. They're just Alt Right and too dumb to know it.

[–]FullClockworkOddessy 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Alt-righters in a glass closet.

[–]KombatKid 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Too many rats on that ship. If these are reddit's progressives then I think I'll go live in a cave. I suspect there are more than a couple alt righters thinking they're making some sort of difference by posting on a Sanders sub.

[–]Rapedbyakoala 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

As far as I am aware, a lot of sanders supporters in real life are consistent enough, and would prefer to vote for Bernie but would vote for Hilary just to keep Trump out if needs be. But on Sanders For President on reddit, you do have brogressives making threads about how bad "identity politics" is and also just plain trump supporters and other people of that ilk. I truly believe "multiculturalism causes strife" as one person said in that thread, is not something the average sanders supporter believes in real life. The bernie bro affect is real, I've seen it in real life (one of my relatives is married to an American woman and they're both sanders supporters and yeah they seem like bernie bros), but this is a case of reddit just being reddit.

[–]RobosapienLXIV 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This. Not a fan of the "Bernie is a Progressive Judas" or "he only appealed to white dude rage" talk, when that's pretty much mostly applied to what he was doing being...well, redditfied. The whole thing just became such a mess, and these redditors were often doing the opposite of what the guy was doing.

[–]jsmooth7 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Not a real muslim ban" --> Repeat times 1000

Wow that sure sounds like Bernie Sanders supporters.

[–]Wowbagger1 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

S4P doesn't approve of any criticism of Tulsi. They do love to eat up dissenters though

That sub needs to just shut down if they are just going to be a hivemind of brogressive trash. Unfortunately, the current mod team is completely hands off and lets the hate ferment.

[–]Old_Army90 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have such a love/hate relationship with that sub that words can't really describe it. If I had to make a comparison I'd like it to popping a zit - zits are bad, but if one pops up overnight I won't complain a lot because I get to squish it.

It's important to realize our country in fact hasn't always welcomed people.

No fucking shit Sherlock, but I guess since we have over 200 years of precedence this EO is excusable.

[–]pompouspug 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

any thread on cb2 about Bernie devolves into "/r/Enough_Sanders_Spam vs. /r/socialism" in here and depending on the time of day and/or specific comment thread Bernie either did absolutely nothing wrong or is the singular reason Trump won

it's annoying

[–]Karmaisforsuckers 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Bernie Sanders is a progressive Judas

[–]DoogieHueserMD 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You can't really blame him when people in that thread are doing the opposite of what he said. If I tell someone not to shoot a person I shouldn't be charged as an accessory to murder if they do.

[–]Karmaisforsuckers 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you spend a whole year telling people that someone deserves to be shot, then turn around at the end and go "yeah well maybe, i cant tell you what to do, but so like msybe dont shoot her, i dunno" you damn sure can

[–]DoogieHueserMD 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I disagree with how you're characterizing his support. If I remember right he made more campaign stops than anyone who wasn't her family. Also Trump had an even more contentious primary field that should have weakened a candidate more and he won. Having a primary challenger shouldn't break a candidate.

[–]DeterminismMorality -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Were you alive for the 2008 Democratic primary? Clinton campaign said far worse things than Sanders ever did. Remember the PUMAs?

[–]DigitalSpace-D 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (4子コメント)

So progressive that he appealed entirely to impotent rage of white dudes to the degree that they readily turn on him

[–]FullClockworkOddessy 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Turns out that if you rile up the demographic that's most likely to become fascists a good number of them will become fascists. Whowouldathunk?

[–]habs76 -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Turns out that if you rile up the demographic that's most likely to become fascists a good number of them will become fascists

I'd love to see how you think a good number of Sanders supporters became fascists. Seems a little ridiculous. Especially seeing as its the establishment Dems who are voting for Trumps appointments with no opposition.

[–]Rapedbyakoala -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think that's entirely fair. Yeah Bernie was clueless and just thought everyone would get on board with his vague anti elites rhetoric without explaining how it would benefit them, but he did try to inject some intersectional stuff into his campaign when called out on it. Bernie is definitely guilty of sins a lot of white lefties are (assuming minorities are just automatically gonna get on board when the last time you took an actively pro black stance was the 60s), but his comment on "identity politics" was deliberately quoted out of context, in the actual full context of what he said he said he supports more representation of all minority groups in society, it's just that it's not much good if someone's a minority, but only uses their power to maintain the worst tendencies of the current system, that crush everyone, rather then using Their position to change things for the better

[–]DigitalSpace-D 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That quote came after the sentiment of "focusing on what really matters i.e. not social issues" was pervasive throughout his entire campaign. It's not like a bunch of brogressives came and injected it into his campaign behind his back.