全 41 件のコメント

[–]_ferz 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Great, now this sub is going to get flooded with /r/ukraina and /r/ukrainianconflict because of all cross-posting.

I expect the quality of discussion to go down sharply in the near future.

[–]95-OSM 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I expect the quality of discussion to go down sharply in the near future.

Complains about discussions quality going down sharply by influx of users, comment doesn't actual contribute anything to the discussion and seeks to antagonize other users

Ironic no?

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

As a Russian (forgive me if I assumed wrong), what do you think of my piece? Any inaccuracies/biases?

[–]_ferz 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It looks fairly comprehensive but I haven't went through it yet. Good effort regardless. Bookmarked it.

[–]Olgasafonova 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Russia is relying on naive Westerners to hate NATO and Soros. In other words, useful idiots.

This phrase shows so much lack of bias /s Why dont you call naive idiots not only those who dislike NATO and Soros but everyone who disagrees with your narrative?

[–]SoleilNobody 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can you tell me more about Shaltai Boltai?

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was going to make a long post about them, but the following articles do a much better job:

‘A man who’s seen society’s black underbelly’ Meduza meets ‘Anonymous International’

The Russian hackers taking on the Kremlin are named after Humpty Dumpty

Russia's Hacker Collective That Wasn't

I recommend the first link as it's the most comprehensive and is a direct interview with the group.

[–]form_d_k 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why was this all removed ? :(

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What do you mean?

EDIT: I see you mean the /r/bestof link. I'm not sure why, but it's been flaired with "R1. bad link" but the link works. Maybe a disgruntled mod or a misunderstanding? Could've been a bot that accidentally did this.

EDIT 2: Just logged out and saw that the /r/geopolitics mods actually deleted this. Hmmmm, I wonder why?

EDIT 3: The mods re-approved it!

[–]DeadPopulist2RepME 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Pretty good post. Haven't finished it yet, but pretty well researched. There are some conclusions that you reach more by assumption then by genuine analysis and research. That's not to say I disagree, but you could do better to support some of your main points.

[–]x_c_x 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In ops defense, a lot of scientific conclusions are based on statistics and probability and, in my opinion, making assumptions is just a small step from statistical or probable conclusions.

[–]yesofcouseitdid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

by assumption then by genuine analysis and research

So he assumes it then proves it by research? Nice.

*than, doofus

[–]frapawhack 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is impressive. I haven't ever seen so much information describing the array of disinformation practiced by Russia in one article. It's the sort of thing a major magazine might do, but wouldn't because it's so much "hard" information, without a conventional magazine article format

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks. This information is usually buried in reports published by unknown think tanks or other entities. Perhaps I will make a follow-up post linking to the .PDFs of these various reports.

[–]SCARfaceRUSH 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Great post, OP. Thank you for sharing - subbing to /r/geopolitics now in hopes that you'll post more of this stuff.

I'd like to add that there are many other activities that go under the radar. Another tactic that Russian propaganda is using is creating news, instead of trying to confront reality with their fakes.

For example, the recent burning of the 'Inter' TV channel in Kiev: Russian outlets covered it, trying to spin it as an attack on free press and an example of tyrannical methods of the current Ukrainian government.

In reality, the guy, who started the protest at the TV station, is in fact a pro-Russian, with ties to Russian nationalists, like Dugin, who promote the creation of a Eurasian Empire - USSR 2.0.

And there are plenty of provocations like these, which serve as news sources for agenda-driven Russian media outlets. When they don't have news - they just create them.

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks. Good job documenting that arsonist. So, he's a Dugin supporter who committed a false flag. Funny, because Russian propagandists blame the West/Ukraine for false flags (Nemtsov, MH17, etc.), yet they're the ones doing false flags.

You're right that there's much more. Perhaps I will make another 2 posts. One of them will include a list of reports on Russian propaganda created by think tanks and other people studying Russian disinformation. They tend to be under-exposed and not read by many people. And the second post might be an expanded version of the OP. Rather than putting so many links, I'll probably extract the most important bits and either summarize them or quote relevant excerpts. Mainly because no one will read all those links anyway and some of them, like the ones talking about Russia's funding of political parties in Europe, are extremely long.

[–]SCARfaceRUSH 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great, thanks!

Looking forward to other posts.

[–]roflmaoshizmp 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I live in the Czech Republic, and although it's not as sophisticated as some of these cases, there are a lot of these pro-russian trolls all over Czech forums. It's gotten so bad that our domestic intelligence (BIS) released a report citing it as one of the biggest threats to the country.

Edit: Just got to the part where you talk about said trolls. Good job, it's a very detailed post.

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks. I recall reading somewhere that Russian intelligence had ranked European countries as the most susceptible to Russian disinformation. The Czech Republic was identified as the #1 country. Dunno why that is - would you happen to have any insight on this?

[–]roflmaoshizmp 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, it's an interesting situation. There are still many anti Russian sentiments, especially carrying over from the socialist days. However, euroskepticism is very popular here, which the disinformation campaigns obviously use to their advantage.

The bigger problem is that a lot of the Russian influence is in our political scene. For example, our president is in bed with a lot of Chinese and Russian businesses and politicians. Or, when the sanctions against Russia due to the Crimean situation hit, a lot of Czech politicians were finding loopholes to 'safeguard' the property of some of the people who were hit by the sanctions here.

[–]ContestedPanic7 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great post OP. Definitely one of the most interesting analyses on here, thank you!

[–]Olgasafonova 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (5子コメント)

We in the West must accept that our rhetoric and message are too harsh for Russians. We should tone down the Crimea rhetoric and instead, focus on other things that irk Russia, like corruption in Putin's party, or pro-Russian rebels in E. Ukraine committing heinous crimes/torture.

You should realise that US demonazies Russia about as much as Russia demonizes US. There are polls that show that huge chunk of americans consider Russia as the biggest threat. All thanks to news sites like Washington posts and similar that turn every Putin's decision into part of plan to hurt US. Saying that west never does disinformation is very naive. Countries and gov. sponsored media always turn things to their favour.

Its cool that you wake up, see crimeans support numbers and seek to tone down Crimea rhetoric. But how about toning down what NATO is doing lately?. You can keep explaining this as "US only means good. Its totally safe" but that would be as good of an excuse as if Russia placed nuclear warheads near US border and russian Minister of Defence said "Dont worry US, we mean no harm". How you expect russian media not to demonize US and warn about threat when military block that was hostile to USSR for decades beefs presence at its doorstep? Here is a good press-conference with Putin where he discusses latest US moves, particularly related to NMD.

As for Putin's corruption. Dont waste your breath about it, russians know very well their leaders and whole country is corrupt and treat this as inevitable evil.

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You confuse propaganda with disinformation. All governments use propaganda, but not all use disinformation as Russia is currently doing.

Regarding corruption, I was referring to using that as a way to fight the information war against the Russian government. Here's an example of a mixed bot/personal Twitter account created by Russian intelligence: https://twitter.com/NewsCoverUp

As you can see, it professes to be anti-establishment, anti-Zionist, pro-Wikileaks, and likes spreading Russian propaganda. Take a look at the banner picture used and the number of tweets in two years: 169,000. His first few tweets linked to Russian videos on YouTube that were pro-seperatist. Also, the first few tweets were sent to a Euromaidan activist. This meshes well with Russian disinfo accounts harassing Western politicians/journalists that are critical of Russia.

The rest of your post has little to do with the information war. It is irrelevant to Russia's disinformation campaign. I won't turn this into a discussion about NATO's expansion.

[–]Olgasafonova 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You confuse propaganda with disinformation. All governments use propaganda, but not all use disinformation as Russia is currently doing.

I dont confuse anything. West uses desinformation when it suits it, plain and simple. You can adress your argues to this guy

And how you expect to use corruption against Putin when russians are perfectly fine with corruption in their country?

The rest of your post has little to do with the information war. It is irrelevant to Russia's disinformation campaign. I won't turn this into a discussion about NATO's expansion.

NATO's actions are major reason for Russia's information war. Strange that you wrote so much and dont understand this.

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Apart from the Iraq War lies, there are no recent examples of disinformation. Also, Powell was lying, but that is not an example of disinformation. I am talking about videos/articles that Russia creates and then pretends to "hack" from Western politicians and other shenanigans. A lying politician is not disinformation.

Russia's disinformation campaign began shortly after Euromaidan. That's when these accounts began popping up, along with shady websites, and other conspiracy theories were spread by Russian trolls.

If this was a response to NATO, then Russia would have begun long ago.

Lastly, the reason Russia is doing this is irrelevant. The West needs to fight it, regardless as to whether or not Russia is "justified" in doing this. Are you telling me that paying hundreds of people to spread disinformation online about MH17 and Nemtsov's murder being CIA false flags is somehow justified? Lying about such things and using them as ammo is absolutely unacceptable and must be condemned by Russians and non-Russians alike.

[–]Olgasafonova 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry, I thought you'r trying to confront russian government and state sponsored media. But your holy crusade appears to be against random trolls on the internet. Well, good luck with that.

Also just a hint. Not everyone who has negative opinion about the west and spreads desinformation about it is paid by Kremlin.

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But your holy crusade appears to be against random trolls on the internet. Well, good luck with that.

They are but a part of this disinformation war. It's perfectly acceptable to discuss them.

Also just a hint. Not everyone who has negative opinion about the west and spreads desinformation about it is paid by Kremlin.

I never claimed or implied that.

[–]VC_Wolffe 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a very interesting read.
But eh, I have 12 hours and not much to do.
I would say I noticed some of the similar tends too about a large amount of conspiracy theories since 2014.
I always thought I was just seeing it more because I was on the internet more then I was before.

One of the points I thought was most interesting was how you talked about how Russia uses a lot more disinformation, than the west.
I would agree with that. After all the western governments as well as the people in them are a lot more connected to computers and the internet than ever before.
Its rather hard to have a large scale conspiracy with so many people involved, any one of which could easily start leaking information online.

From what I can remember disinformation in Western nations seems to be largely a result of small groups of people. Like one person in a position of power, and using that to get others to assist with pushing a certain agenda.

But from what I read here in your post(And what I can remember from past articles), Russian Disinformation seems to be largely organized and supported by the government as a whole.

I think this really illustrates some of the biggest stereotypes of both Russian and Western governments.
Russia is typically stereotyped as always telling out right lies, often making up outrageous stories even, where as Western governments tend to be more about lies through omission or censorship(No need to lie if no one hears the truth).

[–]yinyangman12 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

How long did it take you to research all this?

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I've been studying and following Russia's disinfo campaign since the first week it began, in late February/early March 2014. I was surprised to learn that my favourite news sites had suddenly become vicious, pro-Russian, conspiracy-theory comment-infected places. I suspected some sort of astroturfing campaign by Russia. A few weeks later, in the middle of 2014, the Western media exposed Russia's troll army and it all become clear. Ever since then, I've read various repots about Russian propaganda. I created a Reddit account last year and over time, have made numerous posts, some of them quite large, about Russian propaganda. The recent bevy of leaks in the U.S. motivated me to collate all my knowledge into a concise article, although I left out significant bits.

Out of curiosity, how did you find this article? You, along with 4 other people, have commented on this article since the past 24 hours, even though the OP is a week old. I'm curious where everyone is coming from.

[–]yinyangman12 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I just saw a /r/bestof post of this. The reason I asked when you researched this stuff is because your torrent link from btdigg didn't work, as in mid July the site got shut down. Was wondering if there was another way I could access that information.

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry about the dead link - after I wrote the post, I realized it was dead but forgot to find a working link. The documents were covered, out of all news outlets, by BuzzFeed (just goes to show the lack of attention paid to Russian propaganda by the Western MSM). Their article has several screenshots of these documents.

The torrent link is the link Anonymous Russia posted on their blog.

I Googled the filename "dzalba1.rar" and found multiple mirrors. I also realized that this is only Part 1 of the full archive, which has 3 parts.

Here are MEGA mirrors I found for all 3 parts:

https://mega.nz/#!NwZCzLAI!gUlCZkOxV733XXra4RaLTEKxeFXfpu-ztijzxSBLVeA

https://mega.nz/#!J8gX2a4B!QueMoHgV4kiYbcDa4SsghwODeO400ZqG-4Uy8q8LT0Q

https://mega.nz/#!04IUFCzQ!RIWjE5oCYEsyT67_ztqUg65d_jYX7X-6UahfPTi8Qmg

Please make sure you scan them with an anti-virus, as it's possible Russian intelligence embedded spyware within the archives and re-upped them online to spy on the few people in the world who have an interest in these things. Sounds paranoid, but better to stay safe.

[–]x_c_x 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just now found it on geopolitics. Since the CIA claim last Friday I wanted to get informed on Russian cyber strategies, and disinformation is one outlet of their cyber/information war with the west.

[–]misconfig_exe 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very interesting breakdown, I will be diving into the sources you provided and doing my own further research.

x-posted to /r/cyber for visibility

[–]frapawhack 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like what Hillary said about going against ISIS on the propaganda front. ISIS apparently owns the propaganda war at this point

[–]Stillcant -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Very interesting post

One point: I expect half a million dead Iraqi's and 4,000 dead Americans would be surprised to hear the west does not do disinformation

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That is true. But I meant in the present, directed against Russia.

[–]reallybloodylongname 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Suspicions that this might be because a large part of Putin's popularity is that he is seen to be a strong opposition to America, and so reducing Russia's psychological footprint in America means he has less to be strong against?

Its much harder to maintain the rage against an indifferent opponent.

[–]DownWithAssad[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, I agree with that premise. And the sad thing is that the Western media is helping Putin in that regard.

I've noticed over the past few years of reading RT that it loves pointing out any incorrect criticism of Russia by the Western press. Even if a random British tabloid, for example, says Putin infected Clinton, RT posts an op-ed debunking it. Now, no sane person would believe that. But the point is that in order to increase the narrative of self-victimisation, the Russian press likes highlighting random comments, that are unfair towards Russia, to their audiences.

I actually think the West should do this more. RT uses this to ridicule the Western press and erode faith in them, a tactic we can use too. For example, some Russian politicians say the U.S. never landed on the moon, that Pokemon Go is a CIA project to steal information from Russia, and other bizarre things. The Western press can post tongue-in-cheek articles ridiculing these things to erode pro-Russian support in the West.

[–]puppetmstr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This does happen in r/worldnews. Titles such as "Russia to decriminalize domestic violence" while it is just a proposal by some obscure far right politician.