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Update: Coworker "stole" paycheck, employer defending thief (self.legaladvice)

07181994 が 投稿

This is an update on this post:

Hey all, thank you so much for the advice last time! It really saved me! But some other stuff has happened and I'm not sure if I have a retribution claim or not?

At work on Monday I was called into a meeting with the HR person, my dept manager, and the store manager. They sat me down and were very aggressive and rude to me right from the start of the meeting. They repeatedly insisted the store I worked for had no responsibility to pay me back. The HR person claimed that I was being impatient and that she had other stuff to do and that she wasnt at fault here at all. She stood over me with her arms crossed, raising her voice at me. I provided the facts of the situation, including dates to show there was plenty of time to resolve the issue. She told me she had a plan and just "didnt have time" to tell me, though she had told the thief the plan. She claims she wanted my coworker to cash her check and hand it over to me as soon as she got it. I pointed out that it might not be for the same value. I also told them that if they were going to insist that they had no responsibility here, I was going to call the police and report the theft immediately, and that I would also inform the police that my place of work gave and cashed my check to someone else without my permission. The store manager said to me, "Don't you think that's a little silly honey?" and my department manager scoffed. I added that I still felt my place of employment owed me the money, and that I would also be filing a claim with the Department of Labor for the money. Then they asked me to leave. I did my best to remain calm and factual and stick to my guns in the face of their aggression. I wasn't sure how the meeting had gone, and then they called me back in and were very nice and very apologetic, a total 180. Within 30 minutes I had the value of my check in cash in my hand. I considered it to be a success!

Corporate also called me and said they were interested in investigating what happened and to call them if I had any concerns over retribution. They said if I didn't reach out to them, they would reach out to me with the results of their search.

But then today I got called into a meeting regarding a promotion I had long applied for but never heard back about with my department manager and a different store manager. Essentially they told me I was not getting the promotion, citing stuff that had happened as far back as October, but that was never mentioned to me, and all of it felt weak. Like they said I was always willing to do stuff but they wished I showed more enthusiasm. I always do my best to have a positive attitude both to coworkers and customers, and have gotten compliments from people both within and outside of my department for my positive attitude so I was pretty blindsided by that comment. I also think that you can't really expect someone to be positive about everything all the time. When I'm asked to cover a shift I always say yes, I always stay late when asked, I never call out, I legitimately work hard to meet and exceed what is asked of me. I don't think they had a legitimate argument to deny me my promotion, they had nothing except that it didn't "feel" right. I don't want to cause any more problems I really don't, but I feel so uncomfortable and I used to like my job, so this sucks. Is the denial of my promotion retribution because they had no real reason? Should I finally get a lawyer involved? Should I wait for corporate to finish their investigation?

Thank you so much for any and all advice!

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[–]sugr_magnolia 454 ポイント455 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'd call corporate and make them aware of this. It certainly sounds like retribution to me.

[–]I_luv_cake 305 ポイント306 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Corporate: "Hey, our company really fucked up here, please dont call the DOL/police. Also, contact us if anything happens so we can take care of it so you dont contact the DOL/police."

Fucking call them. You did the company a favor by not reporting them, cash it in, maybe ask for a transfer if another location is close.

[–]shhh_its_me 136 ポイント137 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Based on Corporate reaction , I believe they will be willing to transfer you and that will be the best option.

No matter how good of en employee you are eventually you will fuck up and right now your direct supervisors have it out for you. You do understand they were firing you, right?

Edit there is a good change all 3 supervisors will be fired but it may take time.

Corporate knows you name right now , in 45 days they may not remember when a "We fired OP for X" comes though , burn the favor now.

[–]CrispyBenFranklin 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You do understand they were firing you, right?

Wait, what? Where did you get that from? OP was asked to leave the meeting, not the job. OP has continued employment and was then called for another meeting where they were turned down for a promotion, not given a termination.

[–]othybear 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not firing yet, but now they have documented all of the 'reasons' OP didn't get the promotion, which could later be used as documented reasons to fire them.

[–]CrispyBenFranklin 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You do understand they were firing you, right?

This is all I was taking issue with. OP is definitely in in clear danger of them going down this road, but this comment seems to be telling OP they were already fired...

[–]TomahawkJackson 120 ポイント121 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Corporate specifically asked you to give them a heads up if shit like this happened.

Call corporate and tell them.

[–]07181994[S] 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I just called corporate back, I got sent to voicemail so I just let them know that I applied for the promotion, and then yesterday got denied it for what I felt were pretty dubious reasons, and that I was just trying to keep him updated on what was going on from my end. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to make an issue because really I'm not I'm just trying to protect myself and my job. I want things to return to normal ASAP. I was on a "fast track" with them which means they were looking to promote me and all I was hearing was that they were excited to have someone new on board who wanted to move up in the company. I was told in November that I was going to get the promotion, it was just a matter of finishing through with the formalities. My boss said in the meeting she decided a few months ago that she didn't want to give it to me, but she didn't say anything to me about it until yesterday. The store manager who was in the meeting did fault my boss for not saying anything sooner, said she had poor communication skills and she can't assume what I'd know or not know.

[–]amiyuy 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

(IANAL) Their point is that it is both already an issue and it will never go back to normal. You need to take the corporate favor and get out of that location or you probably won't continue to have a job.

[–]liabilityquestion -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Call a labor lawyer. This is illegal. They are covering themselves. Don't give "corporate" time.

When I was a teenager I worked retail. One day the district manager came in after work for a routine store meeting to prep us for some routine service changes. While everyone was going to the meeting room, corporate security can police came in behind them and arrested the store manager, 3 assistants and the accountant. There were no service changes, they wanted to handle management changes from a big theft ring in person.

The managers were diverting stock as shipment errors and working with the accountant to was shortchange all the cashiers (regularly taking anywhere from 50¢ to $20 from 10 registers x 3 shift changes). They were also filing paperwork to consolidate all the losses around new employees (beginners error) or ones that were already leaving (can handle a 3 strikes mark).

Everyone they arrested/fired was really great. They made sure everyone got the shifts they wanted and time off as needed, worked on promotions, they treated people like people. The replacements didn't trust any existing staff, were incredibly strict, and basically drove most people to quit within 4 months.

My bosses were great, but they had a "dark" side. While they were great to me and my coworkers, they had strong loyalties to the people they were running their scam with and a need to cover up their issues.

[–]CoffeeFox 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They will probably be happy to accommodate if it seems like they're getting the company out of trouble and it's going to resolve everything nice and amicably. They're going to want to pretend to be the employee's friend because they know full well that their idiot managers could have cost them a lot more trouble than transferring an employee and keeping them happy.

[–]ThePretzul 154 ポイント155 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Call corporate about the potential retribution. This is exactly what they meant when they said to call if you had any concerns.

If corporate hears about this and finds anything in their investigation on top of this report, the people responsible will end up mega-fucked in a damage control effort by corporate.

That being said, it would also likely be wise to ask to be moved to a different location if possible. Working in a toxic environment like that isn't good for your health and well-being.

[–]rankinfile 91 ポイント92 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd ask corporate for a transfer to another store. Keep it calm, professional, and just say you want a fresh start.

Corporate grocery stores tend to be ratty places, so unless it's your dream job, you might want to look elsewhere for work.

[–]ethanjf99 233 ポイント234 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would start job hunting. They are under no obligation to promote you and you've made enemies of HR and the dept head (NOT that you did anything wrong -- they're shitheels of the worst order).

Start looking ASAP. In the meantime, what I would do is call corporate (or have a lawyer send them a letter) saying the denial of this promotion given the timing feels awfully like retaliation ...

I am, however, not an attorney

[–]DrWho1970 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Report to your corporate ethics complaint line and corporate legal counsel. This is retaliation which is not going to go well for your boss and HR rep.

[–]2xlp 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do not wait for corporate. Call the Department of Labor first thing in the morning and tell them you want help with options for illegal retaliation after reporting a stolen paycheck. Explain everything. They will tell you available options to proceed.

But I would talk to a labor lawyer tomorrow - you have a prima facie case for retribution: the timing of an outstanding promotion review to the day after filing a complaint is blatant retaliation, and the causes for its denial are typical (issues not mentioned for 3 months, character issues, etc).

More importantly though: the store manager is going through a checklist to build a just-cause case to fire you. Employers don't need a reason to fire someone in NY, but they do need to show reasons to defend a possible retaliation claim. So they're finally reviewing your promotion application to put an official note on your record that you're not a good employee, and then you will magically make a mistake within the next few days and be fired.

Waiting for corporate means allowing them to build a just-cause case. But why wait for corporate? You're already being retaliated against. The corporate office is probably going to be very helpful and want to settle this fast. But they might not -- their HR staff might telling the store how to clean this mess up. So find a labor lawyer and get the ball rolling. Labor lawyers will take stuff like this on contingency, and best prepare you for documenting how you're getting fired -- because it's going to happen.

[–]danooli 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Did you get the pay stub that should have accompanied your paycheck, OP? You said you were paid in cash, that concerns me.

[–]07181994[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, I didn't. Just a handfull of cash. They had a copy of my old check that was endorsed by my coworker to show they were giving me the right amount of money and just cashed me out of the customer service desk register.

[–]NetworkLlama 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

There's a problem here in that the paper trail may not match. There's a slim chance that wherever they pulled it from (a register, petty cash, whatever) is somehow going to be found off by the same amount that they gave you. That would set you up not only for being fired, but with evidence against you in the case of unemployment or a wage claim. They could claim that you stole it in retribution for them not handling your claim.

If you haven't told corporate about the cash payout, you should. The proper way of doing this would have been to cut you a check with no taxes or other deductions taken out. There are accounting methods of dealing with the loss on the backend, but that's not your problem.

[–]07181994[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I told corporate they paid me in cash from the service register already, they said it was okay. The amount they gave me was the amount my check was for so the taxes and stuff were already taken out, it wasn't for the gross amount of the check. They had another employee give me the money while a different manager watched, and in plain view of the entire front end dept and working security cameras, so I'm not sure how they could claim I stole. I didn't feel comfortable taking the cash anyway to be honest but I didn't know how to explain to them that I didn't want the money when they were offering it to me without seeming like more of a problem causer. I'm really not trying to cause any problems. I just wanted my money and I had every reason to believe I was getting the promotion including that my boss and the HR person told me I was good for it when I applied back in November. Now I've wasted three months of my time waiting for a promotion I'm not getting, I wouldn't have stayed so long at a grocery store had I known it was only ever going to be part time work. I was on a track for advancement...

[–]NetworkLlama 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You're probably in the clear as far as the money goes, then. However, if you have not yet done so, you should write out all of the things that have happened. Include who was involved (including those who participated in the cash payout, who you talked to at corporate, etc.) and dates and times as best you can recall.

This may be for nothing, but at the very least, it will be easier to print and hand to an attorney to read than to try to recollect everything in your consultation. On the other hand, it may prove to be a critical timeline if proceedings are required.

It sounds like you were aiming to leave without the promotion, so if you haven't started looking yet, now is better than tomorrow to start.

[–]07181994[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have two job interviews this week, one today and one Friday :P It is just dissappointing because I liked my job. It was easy, I (thought) I got along with my boss, I definitely got along with my coworkers, I was good at it because I'm a fast worker so I can deal with the rushes that come with working in retail and I'm good at customer service even when customers are being rude. So to lose it over stuff that feels totally out of my control sucks. I waited as long as I could on the check, and honestly would have kept waiting, except then they made it clear they had no intention of paying me.

[–]coldcall42 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This might be an unpopular opinion, but you have to get out retail. This won't be the last time you have to deal with unethical management and your getting paid peanuts.

You still have to deal with this BS in corporate world, but at least you get paid a reasonable wage to deal with it.

[–]acox1701 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

call them if I had any concerns over retribution.

It sounds like you have some concerns over retribution.

[–]Bottompressure34 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would reach out to corporate via email (ask for it on the phone) and say that you want to make sure you have time to add in all the details and once they have read what you have to say and have time to evaluate the situation, you would be more than happy to have a phone call or in person meeting outlining the concerns you have.

I would also mention you feel that you promotion was denied based on the fact you pushed to be paid. Sometimes mistakes happen with payroll, but in no way would it be your responsibility to collect that money from a co-worker.

very clearly explain that you weren't trying to be pushy or have a negative attitude, but your rent, groceries, livelihood depends on that money. Always put everything in righting so A) you don't get nervous and forget to say what you want, and B) so there is a record of exactly what the concerns were.

[–]Grimsterr 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This job is almost guaranteed to be over, regardless of what corporate says or does, you have a target on your back. Everyone in your current chain of command "knows you" now so unless corporate literally fires everyone who had anything to do with this, which is so unlikely as to be not worth mentioning, you will carry that target on your back from now on, promotion or no promotion.

Not a lawyer, but life advice here, go outside the company for your next step, lawyer up, if a lawyer thinks you have a case, contact the DOL over their shady shit, and most importantly, look for a new job.

[–]shhh_its_me 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now it's likely they covered their asses when corporate called , but most companies would fire everyone involved with this. On the other hand , it seems like what may have happened... when they told corporate "We just had to fire OP." corporate figured out enough to kibosh that and contact OP so corporate knows something went down.

These 3 people reaction to this circumstance is so far past the line of normal reaction its not in the same house as normal.

[–]Grimsterr 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe, but I've grown over the years to realize if you ever show up on the radar related to something negative and that radar is more than a rung or two above you on the food chain, it never goes away, even if you're the victim.

Promotion or not, I'd be making it snow, my resume' that is. Blanket the earth and find new employment asap.

[–]beanchuuu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would work with corporate first, while also calling the DoL to let them know about the situation.

[–]RogerRabbit522 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My two cents as not a lawyer. Call the DOL. If they are doing this to you, who else is being not paid.

[–]Celery_Stick_Figure 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why was this update post not locked?

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[–]07181994[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I messaged the mods and asked if it could be unlocked because as per the comment, my post had new questions!

[–]freestyler01 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm so, so happy that you handled this on your own and got your money back. I'm assuming you're a teenager. It's very important that you stand up for yourself and hold your ground. There will be many, many more ppl who'll try to take advantage of you BECAUSE of your age. Don't let ppl take advantage of you.

Also, I'm wondering the age of the coworker who stole your check. I assume she's an adult, and I wouldn't be surprised if she and HR manager thought they could take advantage of you because they didn't think you'd do anything about it. I bet she was behind on rent or something, and what's the quickest way to get the money? HR helps her in stealing your check and then she can make payments with you later, which she'd never finish paying off, because she's already hard up for money and won't have it.

Good for you for standing up for yourself!

[–]mcma0183 -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It is very important for you not to threaten to call the police or threaten to report your employer to the Department of Labor to force a settlement. That is textbook extortion (at least in California). The key is to just report them, without making the threat. It is illegal to try and "scare" them into paying you. For your sake, I hope none of that is in writing.

Edit: Not sure why the downvotes. I'll add this: “The law of California was established in 1918 that belief that the victim owes a debt is not a defense to the crime of extortion.” Gomez v. Garcia (9th Cir. 1996) 81 F.3d 95, 97.

Edit #2: For all of you lawyers who may need to brush up your legal ethics, I'll add this article here, regarding the rules of professional conduct as to threatening a criminal complaint "to obtain an advantage in a civil dispute." That's right, it's a violation of CA's professional rules of conduct and the ABA Model Rules to threaten someone with a criminal complaint in order to force a settlement. In case you're wondering why it is a violation of the the rules of ethics, that's because it's extortion. I'm frankly surprised that solid legal advice (with cited authority) is being downvoted.

[–]07181994[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is it extortion? I wasn't trying to get anything done except get money they owed me

[–]mcma0183 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

California Penal Code § 518 provides, “Extortion is the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, or the obtaining of an official act of a public officer, induced by a wrongful use of force or fear, or under the color of official right.” Penal Code § 519 further provides:

Fear, such as will constitute extortion, may be induced by a threat, either:

  1. To do an unlawful injury to the person or property of the individual threatened or of a third person; or,
  2. To accuse the individual threatened, or any relative of his, or member of his family, of any crime; or,
  3. To expose, or to impute to him or them any deformity, disgrace or crime; or,
  4. To expose any secret affecting him or them.

It is illegal to use the threat of reporting someone's crime in order to scare them into paying you--regardless of whether or not they actually committed the crime. I'm not sure what state you are in, but I wouldn't surprised if it had similar laws.

[–]HarithBK -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

it is legally hard to prove this as retribution for your actions so going threw the legal system for somthing like this is not a good idea however corporate dose not have the same standard and would very likly see this as retribution and would very much like to hear about it.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]shhh_its_me 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Do not do this , You were paid.

    [–]thepatmanQuality Contributor[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

    Advocating Breaking the Law

    • Any and all posts advocating breaking the law are subject to immediate removal. Users who post such advice are at risk of a summary ban. DO NOT ADVISE PEOPLE TO BREAK THE LAW, LIE UNDER OATH, OR OTHERWISE DO ILLEGAL THINGS.

    Bad Advice

    • This post is being removed because it is, frankly speaking, bad legal advice. Either it is inapplicable for the jurisdiction in which OP resides, or misunderstands the fundamentals of the applicable legal issues.

    If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.

    [–]Badwolf2013 -35 ポイント-34 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    What did you expect? Advice in this sub is usually the correct legal procedure, but often is terrible life advice for people who could never afford a lawyer. Even though you were right you ended up in a worse situation by listening to the advice here. Start looking for a new job because this one is as good as gone.

    [–]shhh_its_me 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    3 people in the store hierarchy were OK enough with another employee stealing his check , through their store (the store cashed it) OP was screwed regardless with these fuck heads. They didn't even care enough about covering their own asses to just get him the money today.

    [–]07181994[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Lol what was I supposed to do, just lose 1/4 of my monthly income? I had no choice but to fight for my money?

    [–]blacksoulo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You did and are doing the rights things.

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–]ianp[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):

      Off Topic

      • Posts or submissions that are not primarily asking or discussing legal questions are removed.

      If you feel this was in error, message the moderators.