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Neighbor installed road over my property. (self.legaladvice)

YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM が 投稿

Location = Nebraska.

Hello, guys.

I have a in Nebraska on a decent piece of property that I sometimes go a year without visiting.

Anyway, my property is 160 acres total, and I have 4 40 acre lots that line up, most of it is heavily wooded, except a small clearing close to one of the roads that boarders it, where the cain it. I have two neighbors to my east, one of which had the same set up as me, and the next has, I don't know how much, but the north/south line is the same as mine and my immediate neighbor.

For the sake of visualization I'lets number the lots 1 through 4 going north to south. My cabin is in number 4, and my neighbor had a cabin in his number 4 as well.

He recently sold his 1, 3, and 4. 3 and 4 to the same person, and 1 to someone different that built a house there as well. Well, he kept 2, and he built a house on 2. Since he didn't have any access, and the people that bought his land didn't want to let him go through their land, he decided to install a road through my woods. He cut a J shaped road through my 1, along side his former 1, that hooked in to his 2, and also went in to my 2.

In order to do this he cut down a few dozen trees, filled in a pond, and built a bridge over a small stream. The path is about 9 feet wide give or take, and has a thick coating of gravel on it. The bridge he built seems to be up to spec, at least it doesn't look like it's about to fall down.

When I confronted him about this, he told me that since it had been there for more then 60 days, I have no rights to tell him to stop using the road he built, nor can I block him from using it. I tried putting a fence up across it, I don't have tools / machinery so I just sank some poles in to the ground and weaved some rope back and forth between it, and hung a ply wood board saying "DO NOT ENTER" on it, and he just ran through it with his truck.

I've heard pf people gaining ownership of land after using it freely for a period of time, but I have no idea how long that is. Furthermore, he's a bit old fashioned, or I should say a pig headed sexist, and I'd be afraid to get in to a conflict with him out here.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.

REVISED DRAWING

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[–]rhapsodyknit[🍰] 66 ポイント67 ポイント  (32子コメント)

Definitely lawyer time. Also, this sub appreciates shitty ms paint diagrams. This is a perfect situation for one.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Here you go.

http://imgur.com/a/Xofd8

[–]AnorhiDemarche 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I had a go from your description. I hope you like it

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Flip the Y and yeah, that's pretty dang good.

Is, is that a cow or a beached whale in the third squre down on the right?

[–]AnorhiDemarche 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (7子コメント)

There's a cow, a sheep, a pig, and a chicken. I'm not sure which is which.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I totally get the pig and the chicken, but your sheep looks like a rat and your cow looks like a beached whale or something, with it's tail in the air and it's penises hanging out.

Also, is that a 6 wheel truck, a motorcycle, or what, that Mr. Big Head is in?

[–]AnorhiDemarche 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Pickup truck. One of the "wheels" is actually truck nuts.

His head is so big from being filled with hot air, so he must operate the vehicle from the bed.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like it, I like it.

You tell a story with your drawing, good sir.

[–]shhh_its_me 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You got the pig? I thought that was a crab.

[–]AnorhiDemarche 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is mixed, but rejects it's crab heritage. So sad.

[–]addlepated 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Penis...es?

[–]Weyl-fermions 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The one on the left looks like a crab.

[–]KSaratov 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

OP's diagram gets a B+. Accurate and readable, but lacking in color and detail.

[–]addlepated 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You've been fertilized by a giant sperm. Congratulations, Dad!

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I know literally no one in the state. Could a lawyer I know back in California help me out here, or no?

[–]Bob_Sconce 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (12子コメント)

No. He can probably give you general advice, but isn't going to be able to do anything about it.

Also, your neighbor is wrong -- adverse possession is on the order of years, not days. In Nebraska, that appears to be 10 years.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Thank you, I'll call him in the morning.

[–]z0m_a 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (10子コメント)

The lawyer's the one you need to call. Guy's not going to reason with you. You need to know your rights and how much to sue this idiot for.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm just afraid of retaliation.

[–]z0m_a 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (7子コメント)

An even better reason to go through legal channels. It won't help to go next door and tell the guy, "come tear up this road tomorrow" or "pay me for annual usage" because he thinks he's right.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

While I love this place, I'm not exactly comfortable fucking him over and remaining his neighbor. I'd be tempted to sell before causing big waves with him.

While he hasn't openly threatened me, I know he's gotten in a load of trouble with other neighbors and locals that pissed him off, and since I live alone I'd be afraid of what he could do to me, or my place while I'm gone.

[–]diafeetus 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Win the lawsuit first. What's your land worth with a neighbor's road cutting through it? Presumably less than it was before. Also the value of the timber, etc.

Any prospective buyer is going to have to deal with this idiot. Unless you do it first. It's hard to estimate what that will cost you in terms of realized value.

[–]donthaveacowman1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There could be wetlands issues too if he filled in a pond.

[–]jmurphy42 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Get security cameras immediately. Camouflaged trail cams would be good.

[–]ElMachoGrande 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You'll win this one, and chances are that it'll cost him so much that he'll have to sell, and won't be your neighbor anymore.

Find a tough attack lawyer, a real pitbull. He will bring that guy down to size.

[–]TomahawkJackson 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It might cost him so much that you get a very nice bargain on a second home on patch of adjacent land that nobody can build a road to...

[–]bazilbt 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This kind of guy, anything you do is going to cause him to come after you unless you just let him keep his road. He will probably do more shit to your land too. If you are tough right up front he will probably not screw with you again.

[–]ChornWork2 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

all the more reason to have a lawyer...

[–]AnorhiDemarche 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have made a diagram, to the best of my abilities, from op's description.

[–]KSaratov 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Excellent! A- only because it's backwards from OP.

[–]SollaSelty 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Your neighbor is a bad liar. He knew what he was doing.

There are a number of options here, and you'll need a lawyer no matter what you decide to do. You could sue this guy for encroaching on your property. You could work out a lease agreement with him to use the road on your property. It's your land, so it's your choice.

I'm actually curious how he was able to sell off the other lots while still intending to reside on a lot with no road access. He might actually have broken some laws there too. I'm also wondering how the county can reach his property now for property tax assessments since it has no legal public access.

First thing, go pull your deed and the deeds of your neighbors, and make sure you're sure about where the property lines are. Deeds are open public records and can be retrieved from your county.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Would the courts force him to get rid of the road he made? I have this place to get away from everything, and the pond he filled in, and the area he put his road, is one of my favorite places to hang out when I'm out here. It'll take years for the trees to regrow, but I'd like ot get that started as soon as possible.

[–]hhhnnnnnggggggg 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He owes you for the cost of the trees, too. Be sure to mentioned he destroyed your trees to your lawyer!

[–]shhh_its_me 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And his pond he destroyed his pond.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Will do, thanks.

[–]Lehk 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (5子コメント)

This could easily end up being six figures in damages. Trees are valuable, re excavating a pond and stream is expensive.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The stream was untouched, but I like the idea of 6 figure settlement.

Would I be obligated to plant new trees and dig out the pond, or is the money mine ot do with as I please?

[–]shhh_its_me 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Including buying the rights to u/AnorhiDemarche diagram and hanging it prominently in your home.

[–]AnorhiDemarche 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It should be in every frame in the house.

[–]shhh_its_me 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suggest he blow it up so that each square is a 4 x 4 landscape. Then do the "how many squares and rectangles are in this picture" to get a total of erm math 30ish.

Especially need to blow up the one where the new couples wife cut the husband in half and is trying to bury him in the yard in the flower garden.

[–]Selkie_Love 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's yours to do whatever you want

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

As for selling the other lots. I believe that there used to be a road that ran between his land and his other neighbors land, but the county for some reason stopped maintaining it, and the other neibhor just took it on as part of his land.

In this painting the road, which I didn't put there because i've never seen it, would run between the big lot on the left, and the three to their right, up and down, north and south.

[–]SollaSelty 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not only should they stop him from using your property (if that's what you chose), but you should sue him for damages to put your property back the way it was.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Would he be responsible for getting it back to how it was, or could I go after the funds to pay someone to do it? I don't trust his worksmanship, no matter how nice that bridge looks.

[–]AnorhiDemarche 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just funds. you do not have to accept any offer from him to do it himself.

[–]SollaSelty 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Indeed. Don't let the neighbor do the work. In fact, tell him not to even step foot on your property again.

Ask your lawyer. He/she may know many other ways to sue for damages specific to your situation. There may be county-specific laws too.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you.

[–]shhh_its_me 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

In general you're allowed to landlock yourself if you're that stupid. There are laws to protect buyers from being landlocked by sellers not but not sellers from themselves.

[–]SollaSelty 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is not the case in many states. I don't know the law in Nebraska though.

[–]KSaratov 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (21子コメント)

From NRS 25-202; "One who claims title by adverse possession must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that he has been in actual, continuous, exclusive, notorious, and adverse possession under claim of ownership for a full period of ten years. Rentschler v. Walnofer, 203 Neb. 84, 277 N.W.2d 548 (1979)."

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (20子コメント)

So he's full of shit, and I could hire someone to come out and tear up the road, assuming I can prove that's my land, and there is nothing he could do about it?

Would the police be willing to supervise, or have at least someone there, to keep him from getting in the way? He's the kind of guy that, if he doesn't like the building you put up, he'll take it down himself and blaim the local teens, there are no local teens.

[–]KSaratov 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (18子コメント)

He is definitely full of it, and that would be one way of dealing with it. However, the Legal Advice way is to hire an attorney to advise you how to proceed. Generally the police are reluctant to become involved in civil matters absent a court order.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Could I sue him for lawyer costs, and court costs if I need to get an order?

[–]z0m_a 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (16子コメント)

This dude will owe you money, likely a lot. Your lawyer will most likely work on contingency.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Funding the lawyer isn't the issue, and money isn't really something I'm after. I just want my land back, and to move on from this.

I don't want this guy having a problem with me.

[–]z0m_a 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't want this guy having a problem with me.

He does not seem to have the same objections. Hire a lawyer and then start the process of getting your land back.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Would I be required to appear at court, and stay in the state during all of this, or could I go home? If this is drawn out, this is a vacation home and I can't afford to spend months here, and I don't want to face him.

[–]z0m_a 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

These are all questions for your lawyer, who you will hire tomorrow.

[–]jmurphy42 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's likely that a lawyer can handle most of it without your physical presence.

[–]ChornWork2 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (10子コメント)

there is likely no outcome where this guy doesn't have a problem with you. He's trying to steal your land, there's no way you're going to end up with a productive neighbor relationship...

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

So pretty much anything I do aside from roll over is going to get him pissed.

i'll have to think about if that's worth it.

[–]ChornWork2 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (5子コメント)

If someone is completely unreasonable when confronted, doubtful they will ever become reasonable. But if you roll over then it will just be something else down the road (pun).

Pretty much need to lawyer up and fight him. after you win, decide whether (1) it is going okay, (2) want to buy him out or (3) sell.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think before going to court, I'd like to make him an offer, to see if I can get this to go away without conflict.

Thank you for the idea.

[–]AnnArchist 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS - HE CLEARLY DOESNT CARE ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU IF HE IS GOING TO STEAL YOUR LAND.

So sue him and win.

[–]Suthen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Look, y'all aren't going to be friends. He's already tried to bully you by using scare tactics, by lying to you about how adverse possession works. This is your vacation home, you won't be seeing him all of the time. He tried to steal your land, please don't expect anything decent from this man.

With the cost of the tress alone, unless he's very wealthy, I could see him having to sell his house and land in order to pay you. Make no mistake about it, if you decide to sue him (and you should), you will win. You will win big too. Six figures easily.

[–]shhh_its_me 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well you may be able to give him an easement with placement you prefer , for example. He can also try to fight it out with new guy.

If Nebraska allows sellers to landlock themselves; He may not be your neighbor for much longer. He would have to buy an easement from one of the 4 lots or he wont be able to get to his place.

[–]Thatslyb 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

PLEASE post an update. In fact post updates every step of the way. I feel like I am your invisible friend inhabiting your property, wanting to watch you ruin this mans party.

[–]shhh_its_me 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (8子コメント)

He filled in a pond? Can you just fill in ponds in Nebraska?

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I have no idea.

It wasn't a fish pond or anything. My great uncle had cows here, and they would drink from there. It may have been 50 feet diameter at the most, and only a few feet deep in the center. I was considering putting coy in there.

[–]shhh_its_me 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't know about Nebraska but in some places fucking with a natural pond on your property without following very very specific rules is a big no no.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't know if it was natural. For some reason Ithink it was man made, but I don't know if we have any record of that.

It was there for decades.

[–]MdmeLibrarian 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

My brother just purchased a property where the previous owner got in a METRIC SHIT-TON of trouble with the state wetlands commissioner (which I didn't know was a thing) for filling in a pond on the property without notifying the state.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Excellent, excellent, the more ammo I have against him, the better.

I'm just afraid of retaliation from him, so I'd settle for having him get rid of his road.

[–]jmurphy42 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He owes you quite a bit of money for the damage he caused. I wouldn't roll over that easily.

[–]Thatslyb 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Retaliation like what? Put up a simple trail cam and youll have nothing to fear. If yourr worried about safety during you infrequent visits, talk to your lawyer. You can possibly set something up with the police due to past encounters or atleast go on record.

Or better yet, why not use all your new found money to put up a fence keeping him off your land? You are going to make a good bit more money then you will spend fixing the damage.

Or if you dont mind the road existing there still but just want him to stop using it, you could of course take a less obvious route like cutting a tree down that will look like a regular fallen tree. Since you tried putting something up and he ran threw it, I assume you are ok with messing with the road. Why not move a boulder into the middle if you have equipment? Or put poles across the entire thing with no tresspassing signs on them. Make sure theyre visible so if he tries to drive through them and destroys his truck, he cant claim they were a trap.

[–]himit 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What type of retaliation are you worried about?

[–]TheBoysNotQuiteRight 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

1) You might get some motion activated security cameras, sooner rather than later.

2) From the behavior you describe, I'm willing to bet he's been in trouble before. If he's currently on probation or parole, his parole officer could be your new best friend. The lawyer you engage will know the best way to search for a record, but you might start with some of these links:

http://nebraskaccess.ne.gov/sexoffender.asp

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, I'll pick up some trail cameras next time I'm in town, and I'll call a lawyer in the morning.

[–]AnnArchist 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lmao. You are going to own his property at the end of this lawsuit.

Call a lawyer now.

His easement likely would've been created when he bought the new lot (And subsequently sold the old lot)

At that point, his new lot would have an easement against one of the old lots.

[–]Zenock43 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know if the OP realizes how serious this is. I'm also frustrated by the OP seeming to wonder if it's worth fighting this guy.

If he knocked down your house to build his road, (which could have ended up cheaper for him than cutting down those trees cause trees take a LONG time to grow and houses can be built in a relatively short amount of time), would you still be questioning whether it's worth it.

You have to stand up to a bully or he's just going to keep bullying you.

[–]BARDLover 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (10子コメント)

IANAL, but I do lurk this sub quite often.

Did he actually cut down trees, or just move fallen trees?

Because cutting down trees may entitle you to replacement value, which on full grown adult trees is not a small amount.

Typically people on here through around 5 figure numbers per tree.

Good luck collecting though.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (9子コメント)

He cut down trees, at least 15 or 20.

I don't think he could afford that much, but thanks for the imput. I plan to talk to a lawyer friend in the morning.

[–]Lehk 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He owns property and a truck, and presumably he works too.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The land out here is fairly cheep, and his truck is older than me.

[–]jmurphy42 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, you could end up owning his lot after this is all over.

[–]cybin 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It doesn't matter what he can afford. He will be paying you back until you are made whole.

[–]Selkie_Love 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Holy shit dude. Mature trees are in the 30-60k range IIRC. You're looking at high six figures in damage if they were mature trees.

Get a lawyer.

[–]YOU_HAVE_NO_CLAIM[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They were at least 40 years old, as my great uncle was this lands previous owner and he just let nature take it's course, never cut anything down, never planted anything.

He's not exactly the type of guy that could pay that amount in settlement, or would take a repo on his land or truck sitting down.

[–]Selkie_Love 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So he's slightly judgement-proof. You can still get the judgement against him

[–]ifatree 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

redraw that map but with you owning his #2. which now has a nice road and bridge for you to use to rent out to someone.

[–]DrWho1970 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would put up bollard posts with a chain to keep them from using the road and send them a notice that they have trespassed and are not to enter your property again. Also, it would be good to get a lawyer to send them an F-Off letter and that they now owe you for the damage to your trees and for filling in your pond.

[–]nupak 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is amazing. Please update us after this is all over!