上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]Panda413 10.5k ポイント10.5k ポイント x5 (391子コメント)

“Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it, 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read, 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty—to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”

― Abraham Lincoln, Speeches and Writings, 1832-1858

[–]Antigonid 2626 ポイント2627 ポイント  (83子コメント)

He wrote this privately to his friend Joshua Speed. Not necessarily important but I think it adds to the strength of this conviction that it wasn't for public positioning.

Edit:typo.

[–]SUSAN_IS_A_BITCH 491 ポイント492 ポイント  (62子コメント)

Interesting. I'd never heard of Speed, but reading about Lincoln and Speed reminds me of Hamilton and Laurens.

"Lincoln, though notoriously awkward and shy around women, was at the time engaged to Mary Todd, a vivacious, if temperamental, society girl, also from Kentucky. As the dates approached for both Speed's departure and Lincoln's own marriage, Lincoln broke the engagement on the planned day of the wedding (January 1, 1841). Speed departed as planned soon after, leaving Lincoln mired in depression and guilt. Seven months later, in July 1841, Lincoln, still depressed, decided to visit Speed in Kentucky. Speed welcomed Lincoln to his paternal house where the latter spent a month regaining his perspective and his health."

[–]Antigonid 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Unless I'm mixing him up with someone else, Lincoln actually shared a bed with Speed for 4 years and the two became extremely close. This was more common back then, when fathers would share beds with children and other combinations due to a lack of beds. Speed offered Lincoln his bed after finding that Lincoln did not have the money to buy one of his own.

[–]IranianGenius 138 ポイント139 ポイント  (46子コメント)

[–]SUSAN_IS_A_BITCH 110 ポイント111 ポイント  (25子コメント)

a community for just now

I don't even... why?

[–]IranianGenius 132 ポイント133 ポイント  (20子コメント)

I figured if I was going to post the comment, I'd see if it was there. It wasn't.

So I created it, because speed, bro.

[–]SUSAN_IS_A_BITCH 200 ポイント201 ポイント  (10子コメント)

For all those famous political icons who had secret bros on the side.

Hamilton and Laurens, Lincoln and Speed, and Trump and Putin.

[–]deader115 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Holy shit. That Speed!

The name Speed is all over KY and surrounding states - schools and such with buildings named after the family. I'm assuming these are related.

Edit: Just want to reiterate - there seems to be a family connection among these Speeds, though not all of them are one guy nor am I sure of all of their direct lineage. Apparently James Speed (connected to Lincoln) is the uncle of JB Speed, namesake of UofL's School of Engineering.

[–]JehovasLastWitness 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But no homo, right? Lincoln said it before he booked his plane ticket... No... Homo... Right?

[–]Phylogenizer 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So what you're highlighting is that strong, independent leaders with the best interests of his or her constituents at heart, can have a public and private position on the advancement of mankind?

[–]LuteceLife 802 ポイント803 ポイント  (129子コメント)

Wow. It just goes to show you that even back then, Americans felt strongly that Russia sucks, a lot.

[–]turimbar1 837 ポイント838 ポイント  (79子コメント)

Russia has sucked for as long as sucking has existed - it's why there are so many great poets and writers from Russia

[–]FR_STARMER 274 ポイント275 ポイント  (60子コメント)

Not that they've sucked, but they were the last European country to industrialize, so they are kind of the black sheep of the region. That coupled with the fact that they span two continents are thus are not tied to a particular civilization's culture.

[–]turimbar1 223 ポイント224 ポイント  (35子コメント)

I more meant that the systems of government have always been oppressive to the point that - for most people - life in Russia has sucked since time immemorial.

I recommend you read some Dostoyevsky to get an idea of pre-soviet life.

[–]LotusCobra 94 ポイント95 ポイント  (27子コメント)

indeed, russia has a time honored tradition of ruthless dictators/kings

[–]ChefBoyAreWeFucked 90 ポイント91 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Russia is the only country that, faced with tyranny and oppression, the people have risen up against their oppressors, seized control of their country, and installed their own tyrants, ad infinitum.

[–]guto8797 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It has seeped a lot into the culture TBH. Russians are weirdly appreciative of strong governments/leaders since the few "democratic" attempts where for the most part failures. Even without the propaganda and editing of statistics, Putin is pretty popular.

[–]Slim_Charles 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

For centuries it took a very authoritarian government to simply keep Russia together, given how large and disparate the country is. Russian culture knows nothing besides despotism, and so the culture is strongly inclined towards authoritarian rule. Democracy is as much cultural as it is political. Some cultures simply aren't naturally compatible, and must change to accommodate it. Russia's, as of yet, has not.

[–]HiflYguy 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're right. A lot of their population were serfs for almost a thousand years. Plus no natural boundaries has lead to numerous invasions throughout history and civilians were ravaged each and every time. Epic History has a great docu series on the history of Russia.

[–]Reutermo 85 ポイント86 ポイント  (7子コメント)

No one have pointed out that Russia sucks more than the Russians.

[–]MoreDetonation 100 ポイント101 ポイント  (4子コメント)

"People say there are no comedians in Russia, but they're there! They're dead...but they're there."

[–]helios_xii 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Brother, this is a chest you don't wanna open. Russian comedy is "senseless and ruthless", or "бессмысленная и беспощадная", as we say.

[–]DaLB53 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're like the Eagles fans of the Eastern Bloc

[–]Sheshanaga 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

History of Russia "... and then it got worse".

[–]pjk922 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

as the old saying goes, Russian history can be summed up with one sentence: "And then, it got worse"

[–]tomdarch 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I despise Putin, and hate that Russia has gone down the path of "cheating" wherever they can - approaching things with the "I'm weak, so how can I cheat my way through this?" attitude.

But I hate that because Russia is also amazing, full of amazing people who deserve so much better than what they accept. They have some of the positive legacies of the USSR - education and some degree of infrastructure. They have amazing natural resources. I despise their government but very much hope that the people of Russia - many ethnicities and religions - can organize themselves to make the Russia they deserve.

Though that's partially selfish - a truly strong, self-developing Russia will improve the world rather than dragging everyone else down for relative advantage, as Putin is doing now through invasions, sowing discord and lies and with his useful idiots.

[–]IShillForSocialism 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Also a somewhat relevant fact - Abraham Lincoln and Karl Marx actually exchanged letters, and shared similar views on the exploitation of labour

Here's Marx's letter congratulating Lincoln on his re-election

[–]KID_LIFE_CRISIS 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

  • Abraham Lincoln

[–]Bricklayer-gizmo 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Americans also felt Russia sucked when the were the first country to legalize abortion.

[–]JakalDX 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Russia was an autocracy at that point, so of course we weren't a fan

[–]thejhaas 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well they were just coming off the period with the whole Ivan thing... I guess everyone knew what was going on over there.

[–]berniebrah 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ivan thing

When he killed apollo creed?

[–]Ninjawombat111 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No they weren't that was 300 years before this letter was written

[–]Hipstershy 191 ポイント192 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Wow, I haven't heard this quote before. I had to look it up just to be safe. That was... pretty prescient.

[–]Panda413 404 ポイント405 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Lincoln was literally the first person to say, "If Trump gets elected, I'm moving!"

[–]nzthrowaway70 89 ポイント90 ポイント  (3子コメント)

We are not in new or unique times. Populists have risen up time and time again to target a particular type of human for stealing jobs, controlling the economy, committing crime, or terrorism.

The populist sentiment works on an emotional level, and it's so fucking effective that it keeps happening no matter what. You don't need an ordered understanding of the world, or existing knowledge, to get on the populist bandwagon. You can just feel your way through issues. It's far easier to persuade a mass of people with emotional rhetoric than it is to persuade a mass of people with reasoned discourse that fully evaluates problems from start to finish. The anti-Trump crowd have to rely on people sharing a background philosophy about the importance and value of liberalism to agree with them, because some of their statements seem counterintuitive to "common sense". But populists don't need anything but an emotional commitment to fixing a perceived problem. You see it all the time in the populist contradictions (i.e. let's go hard and kill all of ISIS, even though doing this exact thing ~20 years ago against al qaeda and the gulf wars is the entire cause of ISIS and all related groups).

[–]xerdopwerko 498 ポイント499 ポイント  (37子コメント)

How dare Lincoln be so intolerant and call people who don't think like him "know-nothings"? This disconnect between his elitism and the hard-working confederates is why the south won the war. /S

Just trying to sound like the angry Trump supporters on reddit nowadays.

[–]JehovahsHitlist 245 ポイント246 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I know you were being sarcastic but just in case people don't know, the Know-Nothings called themselves that.

[–]Thenadamgoes 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I like that it's relevant even without it's meaning.

[–]Bladelink 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Basically the exact same thing as now identifying yourself as an "anti-intellectual". Essentially "I'm an idiot and proud of it!"

[–]brickmack 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, no. The name came from the group being secret. If a member was asked about it, they "knew nothing"

[–]xerdopwerko 64 ポイント65 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh, the "Know Nothing" party! I read of them years ago. I forgot that.

Still seems to describe certain wings of anti-intellectual politicians nowadays.

[–]personalcheesecake 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

certain wings

anti-intellectual

hhmmmm...

[–]I_POTATO_PEOPLE 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sort of like The Deplorables?

[–]meeblin 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe that Lincoln is referring to the Know-Nothing party, a political group of the time that revolved around nativism.

[–]BadgerDancer 88 ポイント89 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'll add one from Britain to all you people stuck in legal limbo.

"When you are going through hell, keep going."

-Winston Churchill.

[–]T-72 137 ポイント138 ポイント  (11子コメント)

When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read, 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and muslims.'

LMAO old abe was also nostradamus

[–]Pennwisedom 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"By the frame of the government under which we live, this same people have wisely given their public servants but little power for mischief; and have, with equal wisdom, provided for the return of that little to their own hands at very short intervals. While the people retain their virtue and vigilance, no administration, by any extreme of wickedness or folly, can very seriously injure the government in the short space of four years."

-Also Abraham Lincoln, first Inaugural Address, March 4th 1861.

[–]elfa82 2835 ポイント2836 ポイント  (90子コメント)

[–]IAmTheMasterVader 413 ポイント414 ポイント  (24子コメント)

I will never not upvote this gif.

[–]Roboticide 174 ポイント175 ポイント  (10子コメント)

After starting to watch Community for the first time ever this past month, I was so excited when I got to that scene, just because this .gif finally made sense.

[–]bad4th 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Uh, guys...what does a pregnancy test look like?"

"It's like a thin piece of plastic with a thing on the end of it."

"Okay, so this is definitely a gun."

[–]unboogyman 167 ポイント168 ポイント  (31子コメント)

Fuck, we're actually in the darkest timeline =(

[–]FuriouFive 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (20子コメント)

I am really hoping for a 'It's always darkest before the dawn' situation. I'm probably wrong, but a man can hope...

[–]SteveAngelis 2396 ポイント2397 ポイント x2 (137子コメント)

My extended family fled from the Germans in the 30's. Most were turned away. A few lucky ones got into Canada, a few into Brazil and South America. The rest were sent back to Germany. All those sent back to Germany died.

Food for thought...

Edit: The only picture I have of some of them. We do not even know their names anymore: http://i.imgur.com/NtCB5QS.jpg

[–]Aidan_King 1517 ポイント1518 ポイント  (99子コメント)

Hey /u/SteveAngelis -- thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry that much of your family didn't make it.

What pains me is that this is infuriatingly similar to what Trump is doing with thousands of Iraqi's who served as interpreters and advisors for the U.S. Armed Forces during the Iraq War. Emphasis here: THEY SERVED US. They shed blood and put their lives on the line on behalf of you, and me, and our families and neighbors.

These veterans and their families are being persecuted, targeted, and hunted down all because of the role they played in that war. And Donald Trump -- a man who dodged the draft five separate times -- has the gall to potentially send them to their deaths after they've already put their lives on the line for our country.

Words cannot truly capture just how disgusting and shameful and craven that is. It's un-American. Our Commander in Chief is betraying the very people he's sworn an oath to lead. It makes me sick.

EDIT: Just to clarify - I'm not morally opposed to draft dodgers in general (I actually think the draft can be valuable...maybe lawmakers would be less willing to thrust the young men and women of this country into bloody, reckless wars if their own sons and daughters stood a chance of being drafted).

What gets me is that these veterans experienced something that Trump never did. They put their lives on the line for the sake of America and its people. They were even assured that they'd be protected, since everyone knew Al-Qaeda and other militant groups would pursue these "traitors" to the depths of hell and back. Trump sending them back to Iraq -- with no short-term chance of return -- is a death sentence. People who sacrificed and fought for our country are being sentenced to death by a man who has never fought for our country.

That's the reason I bring up the draft dodging. He's a hypocrite. He's betraying VETERANS. This isn't a partisan issue! Don't betray Americans. Don't betray permanent residents. Don't betray veterans. It's not that difficult. You're the Commander in Chief. It's your fucking job to lead these men. To keep them safe. Throwing them to the sharks is not a part of that oath you swore 10 days ago, Mr. President.

[–]preme1017 216 ポイント217 ポイント  (20子コメント)

It really is sick. These people put their lives on the line for years in order to PROTECT Americans, and now they're being turned away because of where they were born? These people have been lied to. Not only does this go against everything America claims to stand for, it's just straight up immoral.

[–]Aidan_King 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (10子コメント)

They were promised safety! That was the exchange. Trump is betraying a decade-old promise just to further his own fucked up agenda. It's madness.

[–]stripesfordays 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

As someone who hasn't necessarily been a trump supporter but also hasn't really had a problem with him, this is eye opening.

[–]table_fireplace 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When the US stops fulfilling its promise to the people who serve it, it's the beginning of the end for their status as a global leader.

[–]Shadow_XG 122 ポイント123 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Did you know Anne Frank was denied refugee immigration to the u.s.?

[–]preme1017 67 ポイント68 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Post cited a paper written by Richard Breitman, a history professor from American University, who argued that Frank's father, Otto, made many attempts to secure visas to flee Nazi-occupied Europe, where Jews were being slaughtered. "Otto Frank's efforts to get his family to the United States ran afoul of restrictive American immigration policies designed to protect national security and guard against an influx of foreigners during time of war," Breitman wrote.

Wow. Sounds awfully familiar.

[–]ThucydidesWasAwesome 79 ポイント80 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Many Jews used Cuba as a trampoline to get to the US. Until the St Louis arrived in Havana to find that Cuba had forbidden more Jewish arrivals because of US pressure to stop serving as a point of transit to America.

After several days stuck waiting in the bay (without being able to even come ashore), the refugees were told they had to return to Europe.

Some made it to England from the mainland, but most were caught and killed by the Nazis.

[–]2018MidtermElections 1002 ポイント1003 ポイント  (39子コメント)

Tuesday, November 6, 2018
https://www.usa.gov/register-to-vote

[–]screen317 431 ポイント432 ポイント  (11子コメント)

[–]preme1017 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

THIS. The political process never stops. It doesn't happen just every 4 years or every 2 years. There are always ways to get involved and take action if you want to.

The power of technology is awesome. Even if there are no elections happening in your state, you can still easily get involved in the political process. And you should.

[–]iheartaegislash 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Also important is voting at the local level, which doesn't always take place every two years on election day. Please go out and vote in those elections too.

[–]hoodoo-operator 918 ポイント919 ポイント  (73子コメント)

People complaining that reddit is becoming too political seem to forget that the admins blacked out the entire site in protest of a specific bill bring cured on in Congress. Making a post in opposition of a president's executive order is small potatoes compared to their political actions in the past.

[–]PC_BUCKY 206 ポイント207 ポイント  (15子コメント)

that was the net neutrality bill correct?

[–]Agent_Left_Shoe 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Yup

[–]we_belong_dead 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I've got some bad news. You might want to sit down.

[–]postmodest 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

No no, Paul Ryan is going to send a free and open Internet to a nice farm upstate! He's also going to send your cousin with ALS there. ...maybe a few muslims. They'll all be happy and play games and maybe do a little work and be free!

[–]_vargas_ 110 ポイント111 ポイント  (7子コメント)

That was a dark day for me. I was on the verge of browsing fark. Luckily, I stumbled on pornhub first. Still, it was a little too close for comfort.

[–]samsheffer 1123 ポイント1124 ポイント  (52子コメント)

Thanks for posting this Alexis.

[–]FillsYourNiche 392 ポイント393 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Very well written and really speaks to the heart of the matter. This executive order is intensely unAmerican.

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."

  • Carl Sagan

[–]belisaurius 71 ポイント72 ポイント  (12子コメント)

To echo this, FDR had this to say in 1928:

I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, then Fascism and Communism, aided, unconsciously perhaps, by old-line Tory Republicanism, will grow in strength in our land.

It will take cool judgment for our people to appraise the repercussions of change in other lands. And only a nation completely convinced—at the bottom as well as at the top—that their system of government best serves their best interests, will have such a cool judgment.

And while we are developing that coolness of judgment, we need in public office, above all things, men wise enough to avoid passing incidents where passion and force try to substitute themselves for judgment and negotiation.

[–]Circle_Dot 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (7子コメント)

You realize you are quoting the very guy who 14 years later signed executive order 9066 to round up Japanese Americans and place them in an internment camp.

[–]mannyrmz123 384 ポイント385 ポイント  (17子コメント)

I know /u/kn0thing has had his ups and downs, but certainly this is a good message. It says a lot about reddit going forward on 2017. Certainly the site has had its issues, ESPECIALLY the last couple of years, but I guess this is a nice, mature, reassuring statement.

[–]FartGreatly 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I know /u/kn0thing has had his ups and downs

Just like a real person, and not some carefully controlled public image. :)

Which makes a message like this more powerful, perhaps, in that it reads more sincerely and personally.

[–]Drunkelves 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Endicott-Johnson Shoe Company in Binghamton, NY.

The golden door for tens maybe hundreds of thousands of families over the years. Mine also. Thank you for this.

[–]mannyrmz123 3531 ポイント3532 ポイント x3 (2028子コメント)

Alexis, although your words are kind, I believe the best way YOU can help reddit cope with this kind of issues is to improve the modding staff/etiquette/regulation in the site.

Places like /r/worldnews, /r/news, /r/the_donald and other subreddits have grown into cesspools of terrible comments and lots of hatred.

PLEASE do something to improve this.

[–]Zythyx1 126 ポイント127 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I'm seeing more and more different subreddits that are getting exposure on /r/all that are locking comments due to rule breaking or general nastiness.

I came to reddit in 2010 and was a happy Redditor; Reddit today is embarrassing.

[–]mlsweeney 731 ポイント732 ポイント  (164子コメント)

Maybe just /r/worldnews and /r/news. I thought the whole point of specific subreddits was freedom to say what you want to say. I don't even go on /r/the_donald but I felt like they have the right to say whatever bullshit they want to post on there.

[–]Why_the_hate_ 569 ポイント570 ポイント  (36子コメント)

But that's the point. World news SHOULD include things you don't agree with. And regularly I do see people getting banned because the mod doesn't agree with them.

[–]KigurumiCatBoomer 202 ポイント203 ポイント  (20子コメント)

Got banned from UpliftingNews for suggesting that AirBnB's decision to house displaced immigrants may have been for PR.

Of course, the dozen replies personally attacking various aspects of my identity were just completely ignored by moderators, and upvoted fairly well.

If I knew you weren't allowed to post dissenting opinions I wouldn't have bothered commenting in the first place.

[–]ilikepiesthatlookgay 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I've seen lots of people moaning about the mods on various sub's and I usually thought; 'ehhh theres probably a good reason that's not being told'

Until I am perma banned from askreddit because I won't draw a picture for a mod.

Crazy power tripping childish shit like that from a relatively mundane sub such as that has really made me rethink all the posts I've seen complaining about crazy power tripping mods on here.


Just for reference, here is the post I got banned for initially...

https://i.gyazo.com/61f27483922c2c7528db58e9fa63f451.png

It is now perma because I won't draw a picture.


edit 2: that post was in response to someone humble bragging about how they know more about computers than most redditors.

[–]spadeNotSpade 122 ポイント123 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yep. You have filter lists now, and it's pretty easy to find your own echo chambers. Begging for censorship is wrong imo.

[–]Suffca 178 ポイント179 ポイント  (29子コメント)

Yeah, how in the hell is a subreddit like /r/worldnews compared to /r/the_donald?

One is obviously going to be completely biased towards a certain matter.

[–]AlpacaCentral 239 ポイント240 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Exactly, there is nothing wrong with the_donald, since it does not pretend to be something it is not. Worldnews and Politics both pretend to be unbiased, when in reality they are the epitome of censorship.

[–]iwasducky 1934 ポイント1935 ポイント  (773子コメント)

See also: /r/uncensorednews, /r/altright, /r/whitebeauty, /r/conspiracy, /r/theredpill...

They are the petri dish for the bacteria that is the alt-right. Please, please reconsider the way you want this website to go.

[–]PleaseGiveGold 264 ポイント265 ポイント  (18子コメント)

/r/whitebeauty

Fascist beauty standards reign supreme! This is a SFW subreddit, so please no nudes. No Jews, either.

wow. OK then.

[–]I_have_no_mercy 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I wonder whether they would accept pics of people like Natalie Portman and Bar Refaeli.

[–]preme1017 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah, anti-semitic neckbeards are out of their league.

[–]inconspicuous_male 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Racism with a slight hint of pedophilia

[–]palish 382 ポイント383 ポイント  (114子コメント)

Why is it that every time this topic comes up, people call for censorship? The word "censorship" has been thrown around so much that it's almost lost all meaning, but what you're calling for is censorship in the classic sense: "A view I disagree with should be purged."

It's annoying that I can't defend those places without casting doubts on my own character. Look through my comment history; you'll see I don't go to any of them. I'm neutral here. But I can't stay quiet. The fact that your comment has 104 points in 15 minutes is, frankly, scary. Your behavior is a part of a general trend of "Suppress what we hate." Don't bother reasoning with anyone or trying to talk to them. Hate, hate, hate!

It's tiresome and it doesn't work. History has mountains of evidence showing that it doesn't work. Reddit itself has a lot of evidence showing it doesn't work. (Remember when ejkp tried it?)

Stop trying to shame everybody you don't like off of Reddit.

EDIT: This isn't about legalities like whether Reddit is legally required not to censor.

This is about what works vs what doesn't. You have a group you hate, and you are demonizing them and dehumanizing them. What do you think is going to happen?

[–]aeschenkarnos 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (5子コメント)

"The so-called paradox of freedom is the argument that freedom in the sense of absence of any constraining control must lead to very great restraint, since it makes the bully free to enslave the meek. The idea is, in a slightly different form, and with very different tendency, clearly expressed in Plato.

"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."

Karl R. Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies

[–]Ceremor 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (14子コメント)

/r/altright has literally been advocating for and egging on ideas about genocide. If you don't think that shit should be suppressed I don't know what to tell you.

[–]n3moe_the_fish 491 ポイント492 ポイント  (162子コメント)

Yup, these are full of racist asshats. That apparently reddit is ok with. For god sakes one user is an avid denier of the holocaust.

[–]IranianGenius 650 ポイント651 ポイント  (28子コメント)

one user

believe me it's more than that. The /r/history modqueue was full of them daily when I modded there.

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 161 ポイント162 ポイント  (25子コメント)

The last two months have really gotten the kooks to climb out of the woodwork. I've never seen a modqueue so full of unapologetic racists on such a consistent basis.

[–]Piglet86 517 ポイント518 ポイント x2 (57子コメント)

/r/altright is a blatantly racist sub that preaches hate. They call for the extermination of jews and other usual neo-nazi shit.

How are they still allowed to be here when /r/coontown was shut down? FFS former coontown mods started that sub in the first place. (Funnily enough, some the_donald mods have ties to these same mods.)

/u/kn0thing I'd love to see you reply to this.

[–]Mingsplosion 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because they make money for Reddit, and it would be a hassle to kick them off.

[–]TorePun 121 ポイント122 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Oh /u/kn0thing knows

But since it isn't mentioned in every comment thread like r/coontown used to be they literally don't give a shit

Make no mistake, reddit is all about image and not actually doing what's right

Once the heat turns up in the media about /r/altright then maybe they'll do something, but for now they're happy to sit on it indefinitely as long as nobody makes a stir about it

[–]inconspicuous_male 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (17子コメント)

I think the issue is that banning r/coontown just led to the same community becoming r/altright. If they delete that, it will be r/LiteralJewEaters or something. They don't stay trapped in Voat.co like we would want them to be

[–]awoeoc 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Then keep banning the communities. It's not like every single member will be able to instantly react and join the new sub. Are you arguing that because banning the sub isn't a one shot permanent win it shouldn't be done?

[–]table_fireplace 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (7子コメント)

So ban that type of community once and for all. It'll be a few days of subreddit Wac-a-Mole, but eventually it'll clean up the site.

[–]spacecity9 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They probably buy a lot of reddit gold so they keep them around. They won't care unless they start to get negative media coverage like they did with R/jailbait, and R/thefappening

[–]dugongAKAmanatee 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (27子コメント)

Therein lies the rub. Does reddit continue to allow free speech at the cost of being host to such ideas, or does it create what might be draconian rules to limit that free speech?

[–]CptSnippy 94 ポイント95 ポイント  (10子コメント)

There is no free speech on reddit, they've made it perfectly clear they'll ban anyone who brigades other subs. FPH and coontown got the kick. The_Donald, altright and other racist subs brigade practically every other thread, just go to the average BPT post and see them trying to stir ip cesspools.

[–]Novel-Tea-Account 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And after the Richard Spencer incident they removed any links to a webpage reading "It's always okay to punch Nazis" because it encouraged violence, but then specifically refused to removed the /r/altright thread offering a bounty on the head of the guy who punched Spencer.

[–]fzw 174 ポイント175 ポイント  (17子コメント)

From the alt right subreddit's sidebar:

In case we get banned from reddit for their Orwellian speech policy, our contingency plan is over at Voat. Check out /v/identitarian.

Oh no, those poor persecuted Nazis.

[–]hmunkey 111 ポイント112 ポイント  (3子コメント)

First they came for the Nazis and I didn't speak out. It was ok though because everything ended up being much better.

[–]dropshield 179 ポイント180 ポイント  (306子コメント)

Genuine Question:

While I would love to dispel hatred with the flip of of a switch, what do you think should be done to maintain that fine balance between moderation and censorship?

[–]meineMaske 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

To start, I think subreddits that explicitly forbid dissenting opinions (r/t_d for example) should either have to change their policy to reflect the ideals of this website (allowing for the free exchange of ideas) or face the banhammer.

[–]Willravel 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is less an issue of censorship and more about an uneven enforcement of Reddit's own rules. Reddit has rules against brigading, vote manipulation, and witch hunts, and, as a private company, Reddit can enforce its own internal, private rules without actually being an instance of censorship.

The problem is that, when caught, certain larger or better-connected communities don't get punished. FPH obviously went on longer than it should have, but when eventually they were hosting a clear witch hunt against Imgur personnel, the subreddit was shut down and the mods banned.

Despite the fact that the above mentioned subreddits have been repeatedly not only caught manipulating votes, witch hunting, and brigading, but have been publicly warned by the admins, we still have those communities leaking out all the time. Ask any of your favorite moderators from Reddit how those communities have affected their responsibilities in running their communities. Shoot, Reddit's algorithm had to be changed because they were abusing stickies. Reddit admins had to explicitly ban people from some subreddits linking to /r/Politics because the brigades were so bad. But the communities persist.

My worry is that because these subreddits are associated with powerful political figures, there's fear of retribution for banning them. FPH was just some jerks. T_D is the subreddit of the POTUS, and while the subreddit may not be on his radar (but probably is), it has strong enough ties.

Honestly, if I were an admin on Reddit, and if I was worried about the fallout from deleting the subs, I'd simply remove their moderators' ability to ban users and delete posts. Clear their ban lists, open the floodgates, and watch them deal with everyone who they've shut out. If anyone complains, respond that they respect free speech. Watch as the community is forced to deal with criticism, forced to deal with facts deemed inconvenient, forced to deal with those they themselves censored (censored according to their own weird definition).

[–]thecodingdude 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (10子コメント)

It's not technically possible. Say every hateful comment was removed, it's super easy to sign up with a brand new account. Unless you start putting automod rules to filter new accounts (even that's easy to game).

The admins don't usually get involved with the operations of a sub and I see nobody offering an actual workable solution because it doesn't exist.

Also, freedom of speech is a thing, whether you agree/disagree it's a fundamental right everyone should be entitled to. Reddit dislikes censorship and unless you want to go down that route you have to put up with the trolls.

[–]flynnski 384 ポイント385 ポイント  (252子コメント)

Censorship is a thing governments do, with the force of law. "We decline to have you in our forum" is a thing companies can do.

[–]thardoc 230 ポイント231 ポイント  (192子コメント)

I prefer a Reddit where everyone is free to reasonably speak their mind, regardless about how I feel about what they choose to say.

[–]cray98 180 ポイント181 ポイント  (22子コメント)

[–]remphos 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Just about a week ago: Why Hitler was right about the Jews

In fact, go to the sub and search the word 'Hitler'. It's pretty crazy.

[–]cray98 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, I don't give a fuck about /r/the_donald, while I'm sure there is overlap between the two subs /r/the_donald isn't as bad (relatively)

But as of right now reddit hosts a nazi forum. Thats pretty crappy.

[–]Pengwertle 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (8子コメント)

"Black people aren't as good as white people" is not a reasonable opinion, and any way of expressing that opinion is inherently unreasonable and should not be accepted anywhere.

[–]Protuhj 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Read some comments in those "controversial" subreddits, and tell me they're "reasonable".

[–]AvoidingIowa 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (26子コメント)

What do you consider reasonable?

[–]awayd 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Anything that doesn't have a "call to action" to commit a crime.

[–]BlopBleepBloop 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Where people can reason their thoughts. Not the bastardized form of reasonable as in "I can somewhat agree with what you say".

[–]zarkovis 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah we tried that before, and what we got was people posting pictures of 13 year old girls without their knowledge and utterly filthy and pedophiliac comments, outright hate and suggestions of violence against several ethnicities, and oh yeah a subreddit entirely dedicated to attractive corpses of women and necrophilia.

Didn't work out so well. Everyone free to say whatever sounds good in theory, but then reality smashes through a wall like the kool aid man and dropkicks you in the face.

[–]friendsafariguy11 72 ポイント73 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Trolls are posting inflammatory content hoping to illicit an angry response so that the responder gets banned. Blatant troll posts looking for fights should be a reportable offense.

[–]mrT9 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The same kind of bs was on those subs during election time, and I'm saying this as a non american.

Why would they do anything about it now, that seems rather subjective wouldn't you agree

[–]Zexui 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Both my parents grew up during the Khmer Rouge. My dad told me when he was a teenager he had to cross the border into Thailand and come back to Cambodia just to gather food for my family. Not did he have miles to trek but he was also under the threat of being killed by Pol Pot's men or Thai soldiers. When he was 14 he threatened several Thai soldiers with a hand grenade just so he could take home a watermelon. Two of his sisters starved to death. My mom witnessed people stepping on land mines, firing squads, and people being executed on the spot. Luckily both of my parents made it into Red Cross refugee camps and eventually moved here to the US where they met and had me and my brother. I'm incredibly thankful for the United State's refugee program because I literally wouldn't be alive without it. With all the problems our country may have, I still could not be any more prouder to be a United State's citizen.

[–]griffinmichl[A] 711 ポイント712 ポイント  (167子コメント)

Thanks for sharing, Alexis.

My great grandfather was also a refugee from the Armenian genocide. He and his family found their way to America through Iran.

I'm proud to work for a company that will stand up for what is right.

[–]NeedleBallista 127 ポイント128 ポイント  (4子コメント)

My father was a Syrian immigrant. My cousin is currently in this country with asylum. His father was tortured to death.

He's very smart. He has a full ride (and a near 4.0) at his college, in his third year of his Chemical Engineering major.

He went on a co-op last year in Germany. This year he won't be able to go again.

He visited his family. His mother and younger sister have resigned to not seeing him for at least 4 more years.

This sucks. Thank you guys for taking a stand.

[–]Reutermo 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is just beyond absurd. America is making more radicals Islamist by the minute.

I seriously hope that it will work out for your cousin.

[–]NeedleBallista 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's his story if you want to read about it.

This is my dad.

[–]allthefoxes 110 ポイント111 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Mnh, I don't know if standing up for what is right is the best way to describe what reddit is doing right now, lol

[–]U99vMagog 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (6子コメント)

more like stand up and sit back down right away

[–]OohCapsLockImScared 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's kinda disgusting that they let subs like r/altright stay open. I'm fine with political views that oppose mine but r/altright is openly white-supremacist and those lunatics should not be allowed to spread their hate through reddit

[–]thane311 199 ポイント200 ポイント  (40子コメント)

Could you try actually being a company that will stand up for what is right? These are nice sentiments, but Reddit is a breeding ground for the alt-right, white supremacists, neo-nazis, etc. What is your plan as a company to put your money where your mouth is and do something about those communities?

Edit: typos!

[–]koleye 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (6子コメント)

My family also fled the Armenian genocide, wound up in Iran, and eventually resettled in America.

You banned /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/coontown. Your website is littered with neo-Nazi and other disgustingly hateful subreddits that remain untouched. You are letting your website be bastardized by hatemongers. A tolerant society cannot accept this intolerance.

[–]NextChamp 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Again, nice words but utterly meaningless until you get rid of The_Donald and other subs like it.

Not difficult.

[–]ZeldenGM 166 ポイント167 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I hope everyone has a wonderful day.

Posting this here so there's at least one positive comment in this thread.

[–]Andromeda321 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Astronomer here! I just had a colleague in the Netherlands who is a kickass astronomer forced to turn down an invited talk to a prestigious institute in the USA. Which would be an amazing career boost and really help out science in the USA as well... but he happens to be Iranian in addition to Dutch, because his father is, so he can't come give his invited talk. This is so fucking awful on so many levels.

My own family's immigrant story because you asked: I am a first generation American, born from Hungarian parents. My father was born in a refugee camp in Austria after WW2- his first crib was a flour crate, my grandfather with two PhDs worked in a rock quarry for pennies, and they got sponsored to Canada when my dad was 3. At the time the USA also discriminated against nationalities for immigration- my family was on the "losing side" of WW2 so were not allowed entry even though they were against the war, of course. But my father moved to the USA with his family in high school the year the law was changed (my grandfather immediately got university teaching jobs until he died), and my dad started a small business that provided for many Americans many times over the initial investment.

My mom came over in the 1980s, as a defector from communism, and married my father. So basically turning her back on her home, at the time with no idea on when she'd ever return. She ultimately got a graduate degree in education and raised some pretty awesome children who are productive citizens (if I may say so), and we are all proud to be Americans.

It makes me so sad now to know that there is right now the equivalent of my father as a Syrian kid out there right now, for whom once again the door is closed.

[–]Jertob 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't stand Trump, but I just feel that people, the media, has taken this temporary ban out of context.

Nothing points to it being a "ban on Muslims". It's not even permanent. It's a temporary ban while the White House comes up with a better vetting process.

From Trump himself (Or maybe an aide, lol):

"My policy is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months. The seven countries named in the Executive Order are the same countries previously identified by the Obama administration as sources of terror. To be clear, this is not a Muslim ban, as the media is falsely reporting.This is not about religion - this is about terror and keeping our country safe. There are over 40 different countries worldwide that are majority Muslim that are not affected by this order. We will again be issuing visas to all countries once we are sure we have reviewed and implemented the most secure policies over the next 90 days."

I totally get that this was however not thought through well enough as many people ended up stranded and separated from families here in the states. THis doesn't change the fact that the media and liberal folk (Like myself, I am a liberal, just a sane one), are spinning this wrongly. I get it we want to use any excuse at all to lash out at Donald, but goddamn we need to keep our jimmies in check. We can't go crying wolf at everything.

[–]atDevin 244 ポイント245 ポイント  (19子コメント)

My grandfather was a holocaust survivor. I shudder to think what would have happened to him had he not been able to safely take refuge in America. It's disgusting and deplorable that we turn people away based on their religion and circumstance, out of misguided fear that they will bring harm to our people. Cheers to America for being on the wrong side of history.

[–]degoba 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (2子コメント)

My great grandmother and great grandfather left France after world war 1. They witnessed the horrors of war 1st hand. German soldiers garrisoned in their house. All of my grandmothers brothers and sisters were born in France. My grandma was born here shortly after the family arrived.

Yes. We are a country of immigrants. Fuck president Trump.

[–]eta_carinae_311 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (3子コメント)

My father came here, legally, from Ireland in the 1960s. He didn't want to leave his home, but there were no jobs and if he hadn't he's fully admitted he probably would have joined the IRA. Being able to move here literally kept him from becoming something people are claiming we're keeping out by doing things like this.

[–]Miqotegirl 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When my husband took his pledge and swore allegiance to the US, I sobbed. That was the only time my husband pretended not to know me because my face was swollen and red and my cheeks were wet and I looked like a hot mess. He razzed me about it in the car but I knew he was deeply moved as well. It meant he got to stay for forever.

[–]alexander-box 144 ポイント145 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Thank you for taking the time to share your story. This nation is founded on stories like yours. My family came over in the early 1600's. My wife's family in the 18/1900's. My neighbors are the first generation here.

This is an incredible country that has produced incredible ideas on how the world could be shaped. Our mix of cultures includes food, music, philosophies, and even faiths.

I am thankful for this country, and I am thankful for our immigrants.

Thanks for sharing Alexis.

[–]VandelayyIndustries 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My mom came here from Italy with her whole family when she was 9. Her father (my grandfather) worked and scraped, and they did so legally. All my aunts and uncles speak Italian. She's the youngest of 9 and had to cross the ocean alone with her 11 year old brother. Your post is a nice anecdote but it has nothing to do with whether this executive order is constitutional or in our best interest. I have zero sympathy for those who try to get in illegally. And there's nothing wrong with increasing our vetting given the state of the world. Furthermore I don't think we should be expected to take in refugees, if their neighbors in Saudi Arabia and UAE refuse.

Trump supporters get shit on all over this website except one or two little corners you force us into, lest we come out and be banned. You should at least pretend to be impartial. This cesspool becomes more hostile every day. We're getting banned from other subreddits just because our post history has something from T_D. We're inundated with anti Trump ads, even in T_D. Maybe if you assholes are so tolerant, you could try being tolerant of other political views for a change.

[–]MANTISxB 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My grandfather on my mothers side came to the US fleeing the armenian genocide as well. My mothers mother was a native american. My father and his parents are irish and eastern european.

Im glad my grandfather (from armenia) isnt alive to see all this.

Im truly embarrassed to be associated with the Cons simply because im american.

See yall at the protests.

[–]-eDgAR- 130 ポイント131 ポイント  (20子コメント)

My roommate's girlfriend is a flight attendant and yesterday she was handed this card by one of her passengers. It's so sad that she feels the need to do this anytime she flies now because of the way the country is right now.

[–]IAimToMisbehave29 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (5子コメント)

One thing that isn't being discussed enough is just the optics of this whole situation. I don't care what your arguments are for or against the recent actions by the new administration, but we should not underestimate how bad this looks to the rest of the world.

What happens to the United States when we lose perceived standing and respect from the other 7 billion-ish people in the world? Many on the right don't want to live in a globalist society, but too bad, we already do and this is going to wound us beyond repair.

[–]MadDogWest 303 ポイント304 ポイント  (318子コメント)

not only potentially unconstitutional

Is it though? Honest question. It may be illegal, but I'm not sure it actually violates anything in the constitution.

[–]-TheToad- 173 ポイント174 ポイント  (78子コメント)

The EO was certainly as restricting as it could be without out right being illegal.

I don't believe you can give Christians (or any religion) priority over Muslims on immigration via the Constitution. Also, the Green Card issue, which was back peddled was likely not legal.

There are already suits challenging this EO, but likely we need to see what happens when it expires at the end of its 120 days. We cannot let them bully their way into changing laws without congressional approval.

[–]PWL73316 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (7子コメント)

No one here is qualified to pronounce whether it is or isn't for a certain fact. However, the Federal courts that issued stays of parts of the order all agreed it would likely be found unconstitutional - which is why they issued stays.

[–]Bones_IV 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you want to learn about what legal arguments could be applied to the EO, I suggest reading this piece from Lawfare. This guy isn't some 'MSM liberal hack' or whatever. He's a Brookings Senior Fellow in Public Law, Co-Director of the Harvard Law School – Brookings Project on Law and Security, and a member of the Hoover Institution's Task Force on National Security and Law.

[–]santaunavailable 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My cousin secured a Visa right before the Syrian war broke out -- he was supposed to visit us in the summer of my seventh grade.

Then his father was tortured to death by the Syrian government.

We managed to bring our cousin over with his visa, but he had to leave the rest of his family behind.

We're glad we got him the visa.

[–]khaleesi[A] 145 ポイント146 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I was born in Pakistan and my parents immigrated to the US a few years after that. They left because of the militarization of the country at the time & corrupt government policies.

All of my family, extended and immediate, are first-gen immigrants from Pakistan. Some are in the service industry, drivers, small business owners, and some are lawyers, doctors, academics, creators, artists. All of them made something out of nothing, and inspire me to work hard and speak up.

I’m proud to be American, Pakistani, an immigrant, and a redditor.

Thanks for this, u/kn0thing.

[–]BunnicusRex 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just another story among millions:

All my great uncles who were eligible fought for this country in WWII, even though this country had taken everything away and put their families into relocation camps - for "security" of course, even though most Japanese-Americans in those camps were born here and had only allegiance to the USA, had no thought of loyalty to a distant Emperor. My uncles' unit, the 442nd, suffered extreme losses, but they did it to prove they were American. No American should ever have to prove this, but they did, and they make me extremely proud.

My other grandfather came from nothing in Hungary, worked hard, and earned his MD in the US despite prejudice against Eastern Europeans. He had to change last name because it was too "foreign" sounding for Americans to accept, but he succeeded and made sure his kids & grandkids had the tools to get an education too.

I followed in my great-uncles' and uncles' footsteps, joining the Army to defend my country; and I wouldn't be here if we hadn't become tolerant enough to decriminalize interracial relationships. I'm proud of my country of course, and terrified for my country now.

-Relocation camps were supposed to be a thing of the past, but now they seem possible again.
-Loyalty tests were supposed to be a thing of the past, yet here we are judging people by who they worship.
-Discrimination was supposed to be at least wrong in our public policy, yet here we are choosing who lives and who dies based on what they call "God".

I thought we knew the difference between strength and bullying, and that bullying comes from a place of weakness. Bullies are insecure and hopelessly afraid. It's not who anybody should want to be; but lately it's been praised as if it could possibly be a good thing long-term. Of course it can't. It only hurts us.

I'm thankful now for the many who are rising from our complacency, cynicism, or apathy to say this is wrong. It should not have taken this, but at least we're showing we just might be better than this after all.

*EDIT to add: The Japanese American Nat'l Museum's "Go For Broke" exhibit about the 442nd & MIS Japanese translators (and the internment) is really good if you're near L.A. or wanna dive in online.

[–]DadsOfAmerica 124 ポイント125 ポイント  (49子コメント)

"A house divided against itself cannot stand"
-Abraham Lincoln

[–]h8speech 84 ポイント85 ポイント  (25子コメント)

America didn't suddenly become divided in the last twelve months, though. This has been coming for a while.

[–]rdinsb 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My family migrated from Chile in the year 1973 when I was but a year old, before September 11, 1973 when an American backed coup removed the democratically elected President of Chile. We stayed in America and eventually nationalized. Many of my families friends disappeared. It was a bad time in Chile if you supported the wrong side.

I pray nothing like that can happen here.