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Mary Tyler Moore (self.bestofthefray)

TheQuietMan が 投稿

There was a time in the old botf that 1 or more people would have written something about her.

I was, for a time, very fond of the Dick van Dyke Show. Mary Tyler Moore played a small but important role in that show as Dick's sometimes frazzled, but always cute wife.

I believe there was something of an age difference between the two (but haven't bothered to check) and I seem to recall she was quite young on the show. And of course, we know they slept in separate beds in the same room in spite of being married because the idea that married people should sleep together was too radical for Americans at that time.

What I recall about that show is I preferred the scenes where van Dyke was at work. I loved every scene with Morey Amsterdam (then). At the office, van Dyke was just one of the characters in a group; at home he was the focus usually.

Of course Mary went on to do her own show - The Mary Tyler Moore show. I've got to tell you up front, I remember watching it; and I remember not liking it. In fact all the superficially feminist praise it got struck me as weak.

She had a relatively menial job. Her role was more of saint rather than woman; it was the Rhoda character that could actually want (and eventually get) a man. The character Mary rarely went on a date and there were very few sparks when she did.

Now you might think that Mary's matronly character was a product of television times, but I do want to remind you of That Girl - and I'd suggest it was far more progressive, even earlier than Mary.

The character Mary too often resolved issues by breaking down and crying, because crying is a girl thing to do. The guy (often Mr. Grant) would melt and the problem would be solved.

Yes - I get she was single. Yes - I get that she was a working woman. But the show Julia was ground breaking; The Mary Tyler Moore Show really wasn't.

So channeling all I have, I will say something nice - Mary Tyler Moore certainly had talent; she did her roles well. But I found the show in her name to be more about 50's or 60's values taking place in an 80's setting.

I'm writing this from memory only. Wouldn't mind being wrong, here.

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[–]GhostofMR 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't know why you feel compelled to write this stuff. Both of her shows were pleasant diversions, not overly significant but generally well written and staged more for the laughs, kinda like situation comedies. In fact, that's what I'd call them. I might even go so far as to shorten it up to sit-coms, yeah sit-coms. In a sit-com archetypes are played against other archetypes. Sometimes it's fluff and sometimes it's substance but mostly it's fluff. Your favorite character was Morey Amsterdam? And we're worried about Mary crying too much? Jesus. By 1977 the second show was pretty much off the air. So much for the '80s setting. She had some talent both as an actress (see Ordinary People) and behind the scenes. If I understand correctly, she had a tragedy-filled personal life. And the woman is dead. So there's that.

[–]TheQuietMan[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're right - I had my dates wrong. Thanks.

Morey Amsterdam - I remember just waiting for his cracks - the best jokes each show.

And - I'm "compelled to write this stuff" when I read stuff like this: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/arts/television/mary-tyler-moore-dead.html

And this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/01/26/five-ways-the-mary-tyler-moore-show-revolutionized-women-on-television/?utm_term=.c82e0731ff82

[–]GhostofMR 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fair enough. I liked Morey Amsterdam too but face it he was doing old burlesque routines. Hard to make a case against Mary doing 'what girls do' when Morey Amsterdam is delivering jokes written for the music halls of pre-WWI London. Perhaps you should feel compelled to write to the Times and the Post. Your post, absent the offending obit material, seems pretty bland.

[–]TheQuietMan[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

His character, I think, was written by Carl Reiner, to be like Mel Brooks. That's nice lineage.

[–]Inkberrow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Morey Amsterdam I knew first not from the Dick Van Dyke sitcom but from an old paperback bestseller my great-grandfather let me have during a visit to the States in the '70s, My Life In Court, by Louis Nizer. Nizer was a famous courtroom lawyer with intriguing tales to tell about e.g. the original "War of the Roses" (showman Billy Rose) divorce case, Louis B. Mayer's proxy fight to regain control of MGM, and Westbrook Pegler's libel of Quentin Reynolds after the death of mutual friend Heywood Broun.

And Nizer had one Morey Amsterdam on the stand stuttering and looking for cover too, in a famous lawsuit for musical copyright theft. Amsterdam was credited for writing an Andrews Sisters number one hit, "Rum and Coca-Cola", but Nizer brought ethnomusicologists and musicians to prove Amsterdam had simply ripped it off from a local calypso musician during a trip to the Caribbean. The methods of proof and the eventual money award were both groundbreaking at the time.

[–]CapercaillieThat's my word of the day: "he's." 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's good of you to come here every so often and tell us what a bunch of losers we are. Thanks!

[–]TheQuietMan[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Stand tall. Place your hands to your side. Turn your head as far to the left and as far to the right as you can. Look for chips, and when you find them - remove them.

Reminding you of what botf was, is not a bad thing, even if you don't like the comparison. I know you don't like being challenged much. And I know you'd prefer to dismiss self-righteously because that's the easier road.

We all make our choices. You're making yours. You chose here to respond to me; and not there. I understand. I get it. When someone is a jackass you choose not to respond. When you get tweaked, you don't like it and do.

Thanks for "playing." You understand I anticipated and wanted your response. I added the first line deliberately, carrying on tangentially with the theme from the other post. The pond here is small.

You don't like being tweaked. I get that. Most people don't. But when the point is bang on, you should do the adult thing and take the criticism constructively. But if I had been calling you a loser - and doing so without a point or argument - I'd be with you in being upset. There's a difference there, you see.

Anyway - regardless, I didn't like the MTM show much. And I'm apparently happily alone in this view.

[–]CapercaillieThat's my word of the day: "he's." 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're fucking golden, you know it?

[–]TotesMessenger 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

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