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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: ed80c5657d3412e⋯.png (78.05 KB, 844x465, 844:465, socialism in one ikea.png)

 No.1294703

Philosopher Slavoj Žižek settles the “Is it OK to punch a Nazi?” question once and for all

>[So, is it OK to punch a Nazi?] No! If there is violence needed, I’m more for Gandhian, passive violence.

>I once made a statement, maybe you know it, which cost me dearly. I said the problem with Hitler was that he wasn’t violent enough. Then I said, in the same statement, that Gandhi was more violent than Hitler. All Hitler’s violence was reactive violence. He killed millions, but the ultimate goal was basically to keep the system the way it was—German capitalism and so on—while Gandhi really wanted to bring down the British state. But his violence was symbolic: peaceful demonstrations, general strikes and so on.

>Today it’s these new alt-right people who are acting physically violent. They represent the decay of common morality and decency. And I use here the the very precise term, Hegel calls it Sittlichkeit. It’s not simple morality, it’s a set of thick unwritten rules which makes our social life bearable. And, paradoxically, I think that progressives should become the voice of common decency, politeness, good manners and so on.

>If a guy talks like that jerk [Richard Spencer], you should just ignore him. If he hits you, turn around. Don’t even acknowledge him as a person. That’s the type of violence I would call for.

>The only way to survive such shitty times, if you ask me, is to write and read big, fat books, you know?

>That’s the only way to survive. Like Lenin. I will use his example. You know what Lenin did, in 1915, when World War I exploded? He went to Switzerland and started to read Hegel.

Zizek confirmed for based ultra. Get yourself an armchair and a load of books, nerds, and turn your pseudo-activity into proper revolutionary theorizing.

https://qz.com/896463/is-it-ok-to-punch-a-nazi-philosopher-slavoj-zizek-talks-richard-spencer-nazis-and-donald-trump/

 No.1294705

>>1294703

man what is this boy doing


 No.1294709

thats extremely naive, expected better from him


 No.1294712

>>1294703

I think Zizek lost it sometime last year.

For a man who bangs on about political correctness he sure has politically correct attitudes to revolutionary violence


 No.1294717

>>1294703

he's right tho. resorting to violence too quickly will only undermine efforts in the long term. when we need violent revolution we would've burned all our political capital.


 No.1294718

>>1294705

>>1294709

Don't worry; it'll all fall into place in your heads sooner or later. Accelerate the process by reading some Adorno or Lenin. Or just stick to being an anarkiddie and extend your pseudo-activism as long as possible.

>>1294712

>For a man who bangs on about political correctness he sure has politically correct attitudes to revolutionary violence

There is nothing more politically correct than sustaining the pretty face of liberal democracy by LARPing against other Nazi LARPers by responding to the impulses of pure ideology interpellating you to do so. You are not a revolutionary if you punch a Nazi LARPer. You are a revolutionary when you educate yourself on society to then potentially annihilate capitalism AKA that which breeds Nazi LARPers, and ultimately actual Nazis.

Conversely, there is nothing more politically incorrect than resisting the urge to keep liberal democracy pretty, and actually reading books (remember: nobody does this in this day and age).


 No.1294723

You know what Lenin did afterwards?


 No.1294725

>>1294712

I never thought Zizek was that politically incorrect.


 No.1294732

>>1294717

>resorting to violence too quickly

you mean, after waiting 200 years, we should continue to wait

I am so fucking sick of all the people whose answer is WAIT you are literally just cowards its nothing else at this point.

>>1294718

and again, suggests "do nothing and read"

You're totally right leftcom, this is how all revolutions have come about, so you'll have no problem naming some of them that have come about like this I'm sure:

There is nothing more politically correct then being an apathetic faggot who advocates doing absolutely nothing, not even in the Ghandian sense, but literally, nothing.

>>1294725

Neither but he sure talks about it a lot


 No.1294733

Spencer is a faggot so it doesnt matter, we should just do it for the lulz of spencer getting punched becoming a meme


 No.1294745

>>1294718

Sustaining the pretty face of liberal democracy

We're doing a pretty good damn radicalizing liberals that were bleeding heart prior to the whole punching circus. Lots of people were vehemently against it, but as our voices reached them, they're beginning to warm up to the idea of being violent against fascists.


 No.1294752

>>1294732

>fucking sick of all the people whose answer is WAIT

literally impotence, and lashing out.

like zizek said, read some theory, do some community organizing, join a protest group, instead of punching nazis.


 No.1294764

Zizek is right, but at the same time, asking for apologies, condemnation of violence, "not promoting" violence, is just as bad and accomplishes just as much. There is no ideological justification, and we need to stop pretending there should be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmy39crFrPQ


 No.1294772

File: cddf66d35f0e46a⋯.gif (574.21 KB, 500x281, 500:281, 1.gif)

>>1294732

>you mean, after waiting 200 years, we should continue to wait

It's amusing to see that, not only you're enamored with the pseudo-activity of smashie smashie LARP time, but that there is also no alternative possible to it. Theorizing, thinking, organizing into a party, discourse analysis, etc.; these things do not even come into your mind when you look at the world through your ideological frame. You are the pure product of interpellation; you nothing else.

>I am so fucking sick of all the people whose answer is WAIT you are literally just cowards its nothing else at this point.

Then you're also sick of reading, or using your brain for anything but picking which color flag you should wave while breaking another trash can.

From Zizek's most recent talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08cNrNCAJkk):

>if we just wait, the right moment will never come

If you'd actually spent time thinking for a second, this does not mean literally doing nothing. Critiquing is doing something. Protesting is doing something. Unlike LARPing in the streets, there is action that can be emancipatory. You're just blind to it.

>and again, suggests "do nothing and read"

Demagogue.

>You're totally right leftcom, this is how all revolutions have come about, so you'll have no problem naming some of them that have come about like this I'm sure:

The Russian Revolution. If you're incapable of seeing how the Russian Revolution is the product of over 100 years of at the very beginning of it struggling to understandi the proletarian condition of existence, you're beyond illiterate and I'm glad to know there's a high chance you'll get your head knocked in at a future LARPing event.

>opposition to pseudo-activity is apathy

Zizek spends more time lamenting the condition of the world than you even do standing outside smashing a window. End yourself right now.


 No.1294785

File: d95402c8c0a1f4f⋯.jpg (80.2 KB, 631x631, 1:1, anarcho-praxis.jpg)

>>1294745

>We're doing a pretty good damn radicalizing liberals that were bleeding heart prior to the whole punching circus. Lots of people were vehemently against it, but as our voices reached them, they're beginning to warm up to the idea of being violent against fascists.

You're "radicalizing" them to come LARP with you. Little more. At best you are hastening the pace at which the bourgeois state will make it harder to even peacefully protest, or access potentially subversive material on the internet or in libraries. Even having simple talks and peaceful protests may become impossible because of your ineffectual LARPing, and conversely classcucks will become all the more sympathetic to bourgeois authority.

"Barricades are ridiculous against those who administer the bomb."

- t. Adorno


 No.1294800

File: 6a3e811373b0b21⋯.jpg (56.25 KB, 385x354, 385:354, 6a3e811373b0b213969839c925….jpg)

>>1294703

Either violence against fascism is permitted - but then, punching Spencer was utterly useless, as the violence accomplished nothing except for to make some black block spastics feel good for a while. If violence is permissible, he should have simply been gunned down.

To borrow from Zjikzjek, we have become to enamored with spectacle, substituting it for meaningful change. That is what the women's march was, of beating Spencer - all useless spectacle.


 No.1294803

File: 5edb4fd321ec379⋯.png (248.96 KB, 841x618, 841:618, anarchism is stupid and wr….png)

>>1294732

>I am so fucking sick of all the people whose answer is WAIT

>WAAAAAH, I can't tolerate the idea that I'm just one irrelevant person among 7 billion and can't personally alter the structural forces governing society! I'll go beat up a nazi to feel better!


 No.1294813

File: 405f1121abb6f93⋯.jpg (126.91 KB, 800x538, 400:269, .jpg)

>>1294703

> No! If there is violence needed, I’m more for Gandhian, passive violence.

Okay. That does it.

Zizek is not going to gulag. He will fight barehanded in Coliseum against the Nazis and he will not get to eat until he strangles at least one.

> You know what Lenin did, in 1915, when World War I exploded? He went to Switzerland and started to read Hegel.

I'll ensure Nazies have broken bottles to stab Zizek with.

Lenin didn't go to to Switzerland to read. He went there because he would've gotten himself executed as a Russian spy in Austro-Hungary. And he didn't go to Russia because there was an order for his arrest there.

>>1294712

He never had it.


 No.1294815

>>1294703

>while Gandhi really wanted to bring down the British state

So he could replace it with a reactionary caste system because it was the immutable "law of life". Real revolutionary. He also seems to forget the role that the Samiti and the HSRA played in forcing the British to capitulate. What a fucking joke.


 No.1294824

>>1294703

Based Zizi.


 No.1294830

>punching nazis does nothing

Except make them a laughing stock.


 No.1294836

File: fd776d6da3f1bda⋯.png (152.19 KB, 1686x357, 562:119, muh fascism.png)

File: df2df5277413c20⋯.png (593.77 KB, 924x705, 308:235, really makes you think.png)

>>1294813

>Stalinists and anarchists coming together to LARP

Today, the dialectic of meme politics finally arrived at an absolutely ebin synthesis. I love it.


 No.1294842

>>1294836

>Stalinists and anarchists coming together to LARP

Are you high or something? I know it's Friday, but you are starting a bit early, don't you think?


 No.1294849

File: 2112154ef75c866⋯.jpeg (335.08 KB, 667x1000, 667:1000, Sadhu.jpeg)

Of course it's not okay to punch a Nazi, all the Nazis are either dead or at a very old age, this is common sense.


 No.1294857

>>1294772

>Theorizing, thinking, organizing into a party, discourse analysis

Not sure if it was you but yesterday a leftcom was telling us not the make study groups. I was arguing for the creation of one and they were arguing against it


 No.1294860

>>1294703

It seems that zizek just wants people to read more and distinguish themselves from liberals who just want to LARP. Of course he has to say it in the most contrarian way possible


 No.1294871

>>1294860

You know when Zizek continues to say stuff that is contrarian to the radical left, or, as the media puts it, "says stuff the left doesn't want to hear", you got to ask yourself if he really is a radical leftist at all.


 No.1294879

>>1294871

I think he's just an old man who doesn't have any lead in his pencil anymore.


 No.1294885

Nazi here, I agree with zizek tbh


 No.1294888

>>1294718

>zizek

>not psuedo-activism

lol, he fucking invoked Gandhi


 No.1294893

>>1294785

Basically this all the anti Trump protest have made everyone I've known more sympathetic to Trump/more reactionary than have a desire to resist Trump. Honestly while I wanted Trump to win I always thought that Trump needs to start fucking up before people protest because what these protest all these protests are doing is dividing this country more than uniting it for revolution. I know that the far right would be still active, but I think that they would be far less active if people waited until Trump started fucking the country up because more people would be sympathetic to those against Trump than be thinking that Trump is right he must be defended and that everyone who stands against Trump is just a stupid college commie who has no experience in the real world. Tbh it was quite sad watching people who I knew were sympathetic Occupy and people one of my family members who was and still is sympathetic to Fidel Castro and Cuba turn more and more to defending Trump because of the protest. It seems like people don't seem to get that Trump is part of the establishment and that the attacks on him by Clinton and the mainstream media attacks on him are just two parts of the same ruling class fighting each other over a few differences there is no side that is fighting for what is right for the people.


 No.1294904

>>1294857

Wasn't me, at any rate.

>>1294871

>as the media puts it, "says stuff the left doesn't want to hear"

That's in his own fucking words, nigger (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6pyufzQs4I, at a talk with one of the few who actually still accomodate him for it: Belinski). The MSM has continually bashed him for his stance on the refugee crisis, criticism of language policing and political correctness in generall. Hell, he's been banned from the Guardian for saying vulgar, racist jokes have emancipatory potential and that false liberal tolerance is the basis of capitalism with a human face. You're either illiterate or a salty tankie.


 No.1294907

Further proof leftcoms are retarded


 No.1294911

File: 5338e7c6fba6cc8⋯.jpg (43.24 KB, 441x280, 63:40, zizek no need to be upset.jpg)


 No.1294918

File: 7cee8df47b9f73b⋯.png (600.85 KB, 687x617, 687:617, 1475471472540.png)

Zizek is right but his reasoning is poorly worded.

Richard Spencer was a vermin until some one filmed him, that aknoledged him and power him.

The correct thing is not to punch a nazi but silence him.

Do not punch, take his website down, close his conferences, etc.

Richard lives for the attention and the victimhood validates him.


 No.1294920

>>1294888

checked, but also rejected because you hate him solely for not being an identity politics deviationist


 No.1294924

Ghandi wasn't peaceful he killed people for the British in Africa and allowed Hindu nationalists to commit acts of organized mass terror against muslims and supported genocide and apartheid in south africa. Nelson Mandela and MLK weren't peaceful either at all really


 No.1294927

SMASHIES B T F O


 No.1294939

>>1294920

>but also rejected because you hate him solely for not being an identity politics deviationist

No I hate him for basically being politically correct. Nothing he suggests is actually necessarily revolutionary, inciting of change, or "politically incorrect", not that the latter is necessary whatsoever.

Surprising, right? But it's true. I wouldn't be surprised if Zizek wasn't a plant of some kind to fuck with Americans.


 No.1294950

>>1294904

So you would support, for instance, the creation of a study group?


 No.1294963

>>1294939

>I wouldn't be surprised if Zizek wasn't a plant of some kind to fuck with Americans

>>>/revvitleft/

>>1294950

Yes. It's the most elementary thing we should do: (re)interpret the world, not mindlessly do for the sake of doing, completely blind to what we are actually affecting and how.


 No.1294968

>>1294963

So you'll create a study group with me then?


 No.1294969

>>1294939

Patently untrue. His latest pamphlet about refugees has concrete proposals that would amount to a sea-change in current migration policy in Europe.


 No.1294971

>>1294963

>/revvitleft/

It's true, though. Zizek has done nothing and will continue to do nothing. He is a politically correct mouth piece

Listen to him. He just invoked Gandhi.


 No.1294975

>>1294969

>Patently untrue

Give me evidence he isn't.

>His latest pamphlet about refugees

Is by today's standards, politically correct.


 No.1294978

File: c4765475d15070b⋯.png (162.26 KB, 842x1191, 842:1191, punch.png)

Reminder…


 No.1294981

>if you punch your enemies, they win

Absolutely unreal, these assholes are in power. You can't just turn around on oppression and state violence. Not unless you're rich like this slovenian fisted asshole.The he brings up that shithead Ghandi that liberals like him jerk themselves off to when it was other violent groups that brought real change to India.

There was another time when he was arguing against communes and full democracy when he had stressed the ease of modern society and praised alienation. The guy is the definition of a bourgeois socialist, he likes to talk about changing the system but if it were ever to affect his life in any way he would oppose it vehemently. The guy just wants his coffee in the morning and his balls scratched in the afternoon, he doesn't give a fuck about the struggle of the proletariat, it's all theoretical bullshit to him. The fat cunt probably would have killed Rosa.


 No.1294982

>>1294968

I'd rather you just join the /leftypol/ IRC with me and help cleanse its tripfaggot population with people actually interested in using the IRC for something good: studying and theorizing. I have my own circle IRL I study with.


 No.1294986

Idealism is ever the philosophy of inaction and intellectual masturbation.


 No.1294987

>>1294982

>I'd rather you just join the /leftypol/ IRC

hahahaha holy shit


 No.1294991

Zizek's support for the proletariat, revolution, and the Left in general is always in inverse relation to their closeness in space and time.

He is unabashedly supportive of the French Revolution, since it is impossibly far away. Absolutely, yesh, I shay, every one who got guillotined desherved it, and and so on.

The early 20th century revolutions that failed (like the SDAPO in Austria) he also comes out for completely. It was a terrible thing that Austrian moderates didn't join leftist paramilitaries in the streets.

Then we get closer, to the early 20th Century revolutions that were effective. The USSR, he holds up Lenin as a good example all the time, but disdains the USSR, why? Because it lasted long enough to be close to him.

Mao? Far enough away that Zizek sometimes mentions him approvingly, but close enough that Zizek adopts a guarded and conservative posture.

Literally anything happening now? He skews from Conservative to full on reactionary. His shit about muh immigrants was reactionary garbage.


 No.1294996

Zizek has to worry about important things. Like his deal with Netflix falling through. Wouldn't want to risk business.


 No.1295003

>>1294991

In fairness, I think that his anti-immigration stance was founded upon the notion that stemming immigration would weaken global capitalism.


 No.1295027

File: 3cf017a8bb19203⋯.png (1.1 MB, 851x1100, 851:1100, ama mitsuki.png)

>>1294939

> I hate him for basically being politically correct

Honestly hate this kind of ad hominem.

> He criticized me so what I am saying must be true!

It's basically the mentality of /pol/ par excellence. And honestly, how mad he makes liberals and tankies alike makes me think he's far more politically incorrect than anyone can even comprehend.


 No.1295036

>>1294975

>Is by today's standards, politically correct.

Yes, that's why the entire bourgie left rejects it. Get your head out of your snatch.


 No.1295044

Well, I advise all sensible leftists to listen to him. Let's let the anarkiddies and fashies destroy each other, how about?


 No.1295045

>>1295027

I'm not criticizing him for "criticizing me", whatever that means.

I'm criticizing him by using today's politically correct standards, IE those in Capitalist power, in order to suggest what he otherwise defends in the farther past but not today, are correct. While today is not correct.

Sure, largely, the riots have been, inefficient.

But what exactly does Zizek hope to see? Military trained revolutionaries? Isn't going to happen.

But instead of actually clarifying his contradicting position, he full on points it out himself, invoking liberal notions of peaceful protest in such a way where he seems more than he is. He isn't.

He's a liberal documentary star with a Netflix contract worried about his income


 No.1295050

>>1295036

>Yes, that's why the entire bourgie left rejects it

What the "bougie left" does is not necessarily indicative of being wrong, in this case,

Zizek is the bougie left


 No.1295065

>>1295050

>says the feminist


 No.1295069

>>1295065

Being a feminist does not make one bougie, as it does not equate income level. I am surely less affluent than Zizek is, after all, I do not have a partnership with Netflix to have them pay me for the rights to be well reviewed documentary about film.


 No.1295070

File: 3106a59192ce891⋯.jpg (96.66 KB, 913x1500, 913:1500, Fingerless gloves and a st….jpg)

>>1295045

You're missing the point of what the ad hominem means. I'm not saying you in particular. You're not special.

>But what exactly does Žižek hope to see? Military trained revolutionaries? Isn't going to happen.

See, this is where you misunderstand and probably only get surface level Žižek. He says explicitly that you're never going to get organized riots, that it's not feasible to just raise consciousness a little and their impotent violence will be justified! No, he says that it's always going to be chaos.

Nothing about what Žižek is saying is peaceful. To put a stop to the everyday business of the state apparatus, to walk up to them, occupy so much, say you can't do this, is really, really violent in itself.

http://www.lacan.com/zizrobes.htm


 No.1295073

>>1295065

>being a feminist changes your relationship to the MoP

What did he mean by this?


 No.1295078

>>1295045

>But what exactly does Zizek hope to see? Military trained revolutionaries? Isn't going to happen.

He has made clear this is not what he wants on numerous occasions. As a matter of immediate policy, he supports using social democratic and market socialist reforms as a rallying cry to generate broad support for the left and generate concrete support among the working class.


 No.1295084

>>1295069

>class is determined by income

wew

>>1295073

this is also not what I was implying. only that feminism is widely supported by the ruling class. should we not question why?




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