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Anarchism

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Subreddit of the week: /r/SocialistRA (Socialist Rifle Association)


Anarchism is a social movement that seeks liberation from oppressive systems of control including but not limited to the state, capitalism, racism, sexism, speciesism, and religion. Anarchists advocate a self-managed, classless, stateless society without borders, bosses, or rulers where everyone takes collective responsibility for the health and prosperity of themselves and the environment.
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submitted by TheGreenKnight920 philosophical anarchist
top 200 commentsshow all 250
[–]decarabiaXVII InsurrectionistACTION NOT FUCKING APATHY 196 points197 points198 points  (25 children)
People are catching on.
[–]deanboyj 22 points23 points24 points  (0 children)
yeah im not an anarchist (hi from /r/fullcommunism) but we love you guys. you have had a hell of a weekend. good luck comrades
[–]sexrobot_sexrobot 30 points31 points32 points  (1 child)
Yeah even liberals I know were complimenting the video of the neo-Nazi getting punched. I was pleasantly surprised.
[–]125e125 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I sure as hell am.
[–][deleted]  (20 children)
[removed]
[–]boydedgarcharles 100 points101 points102 points  (2 children)
It's interesting that Trump's sexual assaults don't concern Trump supporters but a woman expressing an opinion sends them into a fit of name calling. If Trump's attacks on women do not require universal condemnation then neither should that assault on the neo-nazi who supports him.
[–]AbortusLuciferum- fash sit down or get put down 17 points18 points19 points  (1 child)
Man, I'd hate to be in their skins a couple decades from now when they realize they're squarely on the wrong side of history.
[–]boydedgarcharles 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
Yes, when their daughters grow up to live in the world they created.
[–]decarabiaXVII InsurrectionistACTION NOT FUCKING APATHY 35 points36 points37 points  (15 children)
Sorry I'm through with arguing with detracting cowards.
Call us what you want,you words fall on deaf ears.
[–][deleted]  (14 children)
[removed]
[–]decarabiaXVII InsurrectionistACTION NOT FUCKING APATHY 33 points34 points35 points  (11 children)
Sorry I don't argue or have discussions with people who claim to be "anarchists" but actually support giving fascists platforms,"free speech" or downplay the actions of our comrades who are in jail and in the hospital.
I'm done talking to you.
[–][deleted]  (4 children)
[removed]
[–]freedom_flower person of colourto burn down the whitehouse 5 points6 points7 points  (3 children)
lol if you gonna use a strawman at least do it better.
[–]FallacyExplnationBot 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
Hi! Here's a summary of the term "Strawman":

A straw man is logical fallacy that occurs when a debater intentionally misrepresents their opponent's argument as a weaker version and rebuts that weak & fake version rather than their opponent's genuine argument. Intentional strawmanning usually has the goal of [1] avoiding real debate against their opponent's real argument, because the misrepresenter risks losing in a fair debate, or [2] making the opponent's position appear ridiculous and thus win over bystanders.
Unintentional misrepresentations are also possible, but in this case, the misrepresenter would only be guilty of simple ignorance. While their argument would still be fallacious, they can be at least excused of malice.
[–]you_get_CMV_delta 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
That's a good point you have there. I never considered the matter from that perspective before.
[–]Inmate002 comment score below threshold-11 points-10 points-9 points  (2 children)
The fact that you claim to be anarchist yet anti free speech. Anarchy is an abscence of government meaning you can say and do whatever you want.
[–]Bananasauru5rex 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
An anarchist who is anti-free speech generally just means that they are against speech protectionism. For instance, an anarchist most likely believes that a group can organize itself in order to protest and block some immoral speech from being given a platform. A free speech protectionist often believes that the speaker has the right to free speech, but the protesters don't have a right to publicly display their dislike of that speech.
That is to say that free speech, protectionism, and platforming still have traction and are understandable even in the absence of government.
[–]decarabiaXVII InsurrectionistACTION NOT FUCKING APATHY 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
WRONGGGGGGGG WRONG WRONG! WITHOUT RULERS,NOT RULES! FUCK YOUR PUNK ROCK ANARCHY!
[–][deleted]  (2 children)
[removed]
[–]freedom_flower person of colourto burn down the whitehouse 12 points13 points14 points  (0 children)
Arguing ideas in't detracting - it's healthy and quite important.
said a brocialist: "don't bash the fash, argue with them instead!"
[–]Etherealrain1 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I'm sure you'd consider those "words" to be worthy of violent reaction if it was YOU they wanted to ethnically cleanse.
[–]TheGreenKnight920 philosophical anarchist[S] 116 points117 points118 points  (43 children)
Hopefully this mindset actually sticks over time
[–]zendogsit comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points  (15 children)
This kind of mindset only leads to further retributive aggression from the side that is currently being protested against.
The wheel of samsara continues to turn
Edit: Clearly nonviolence isn't that popular at the moment, or my comment came off as snarky in which case I apologise. I'm not suggesting inaction, I just wonder how effective violence is against violence? The system we're facing is already in the process of eating itself, do we need to sink to their level as it dissolves?
Double edit: this has really got me thinking and /u/Imsomniland touches on the idea in a much older thread:
Hierarchies are much more than physical things. They are embedded in semantics, in language, in ideologies. [...] Violence alienates and fragments...it creates more enemies than allies/supporters.
[–]unsettlingideologies queer anarchist 19 points20 points21 points  (4 children)
The system we're facing is already in the process of eating itself
Where is the evidence of this? This election was an almost unblemished victory for white supremacy, unchecked capitalism, fascism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia (and xenophobia more broadly), climate change denial, etc. It is completely likely that we will see executive orders and legislation over the next 100 days that roll back so many of the rights that have been fought for over generations. The number of black people killed by police has been increasing in recent years while we are in one of the safest moments in history FOR police. Those in power have more powerful weaponry than ever before AND a more terrifying and all-encompassing surveillance apparatus. Wealth is more concentrated now than it has been in at least 100 years and maybe even longer.
In what way is the system eating itself? Because it sure looks like it's devouring us.
[–]zendogsit 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
You're 100% correct. I suppose I'm of the mind that these are all symptoms of capitalisms death knell, but we're on a path that is completely unsustainable so it's only a matter of time before something different comes along.
[–]BlackJackShellac nihilist anarchist 12 points13 points14 points  (1 child)
"Comes along"
You act like the wheels of history will magically turn and give us ultra luxury space communism. You have to fight for it.
[–]zendogsit 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I simply said something different. If we use violence to change the system we are simply replacing one violence with another and it will simply continue.
[–]alexispres 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
That "matter of time" is true. But it will come by human actions.
[–]thenategatsby anarcho-communist 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
Although I am not a pacifist and I disagree with your statement, I nonetheless think that what you wrote is important to consider as more and more formerly inactive people flirt with struggle.
Bayard Rustin, a significant civil rights organizer and vital advisor to MLK, once insisted that violence, amongst other reasons, was foolish because the state has tanks and the people would be crushed in open struggle. Again, I disagree with this argument, but as we build a mass movement we have to consider the actual reach and capacity of our power.
I don't think we can ever fully predict the outcome of a major struggle, no matter how asymmetrical. That is why I believe violence is sometimes a proper tool - or perhaps an act of self defence, which is tragically becoming more necessary. We cannot categorically discard a tool that may very well save the lives of the oppressed.
But that being said we as radicals must open spaces for this discussion. Although I believe that violence is sometimes necessary, I also believe that it should always be concidered carefully, and I therefore welcome the well reasoned arguments of pacifists.
[–]zendogsit 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I really appreciate you sharing your perspective, thank you
I just cant help but feel as though violence directed towards one another is putting the anger in the wrong place, as it will only cause more suffering.
The anger needs to be compassionately directed towards the struggle itself, the conditions that gave rise to the situation we are faced with. Directing it at others, while I can sympathise, may feel like action, but is simply not placing the best foot forward.
[–]germanaustrian 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
There is a place for violence and destruction and a place for peaceful resistance. I'm of the opinion neither would work completely without the other.
[–]HelperBot_ 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)

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[–]zendogsit 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
I think you're quite right, admittedly I've taken a hardline of nonviolence to play devils advocate in a thread full of those espousing violence but this quote stuck out to me
…in the inevitable tension accompanying the transition from a violent world to a nonviolent one, the choice of means will almost never be pure, and will involve such complexities that the simple distinction between violence and nonviolence does not suffice as a guide...the very acts with which we seek to do good cannot escape the imperfections of the world we are trying to change.
[–]germanaustrian 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I also really like that quote. Generally, that wikipedia article is pretty great with some good sources on the topic and I link it often when I see the discussion come up.
[–]_Shah_Mirzoev_ anarcho-syndicalist 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
You do realize that the reason as to why nonviolent movements such as the Civil Rights Movement and the Indian Independence Movement succeeded specifically because of the threat of violence that these movements posed, right? In regards to the former, for example, one of the major reasons as to why the movement succeeded was because many noticed and became increasingly worried by the rise of radical groups such as the Black Panthers and various Communist groups.
[–]zendogsit 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Absolutely! You let the enemy show their ugliest face, while you act with compassionate anger. This doesn't work if you're attacking them too
[–]TheGreenKnight920 philosophical anarchist[S] 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
First, we weren't protesting against anyone who could be a future ally. Second, the other side does the same shit, but that's not why we hate them, we hate their ideology and unjust use of their actions
[–]NinthOverlord 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Death to the fascists!
[–][deleted]  (25 children)
[removed]
[–]MasterlessMan333 anarcho-sithdicalist 172 points173 points174 points  (14 children)
ofc the top reply is some dude saying "what about..."
[–]TheGreenKnight920 philosophical anarchist[S] 93 points94 points95 points  (0 children)
Lmao there's always some fucking excuse for them to denounce protests
[–]Neon_Bruja 45 points46 points47 points  (9 children)
But Bill Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like anybody gives a fuck about him.
They have nothing.
[–]jay-20 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
fuck Bill Clinton too!
[–]gamegyro56 discordian 12 points13 points14 points  (7 children)
You still shouldn't excuse Clinton's assaults.
[–]AbortusLuciferum- fash sit down or get put down 17 points18 points19 points  (0 children)
But we shouldn't allow others to deflect either.
[–]gamegyro56 discordian 2 points3 points4 points  (3 children)
Who's "we"? I feel saying "But Bill Clinton! Like anybody gives a fuck about him" excuses his assault crimes.
[–]the_person 14 points15 points16 points  (2 children)
No, pointing the finger at someone else is irrelevant. It doesn't excuse Trump.
Rape is bad. I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees, and won't excuse anyone. We just don't like it when someone with sexual assault allegations becomes president.
[–]gamegyro56 discordian -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
But most people ignore the fact that that happened before.
[–]the_person 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
That's pretty bad. Screw those people.
Also screw trump, and all the people who act like he never did the things he did.
[–]IamSeth anarchistThe Sunlight dragged me here. -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)

THIS IS WHAT WHATABOUTISM LOOKS LIKE.

[–]AbortusLuciferum- fash sit down or get put down 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
You can already tell it was gonna be some deflecting bullshit to put the spotlight on you instead of owning up to what they believe. Because he knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Fuck reactionaries.
[–]Decent_Worldview 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Ya
"@LilianaSegura @jshgdmn what about the Democrats who didn't vote for him that don't believe violence is an answer?"
[–]NarrowHipsAreSexytranswoman living under tyranny 111 points112 points113 points  (62 children)
Everyone just stay calm and mild mannered. We as a society just rewarded a rich sex predator to the seat or president who has horribly oppressive plans.
But no, that's not a big deal, how dare you be full of outrage over a rapist. Who needs justice? Just sit down, hide in an attic, and hope tyranny doesn't come for you.
We can kill innocent people in states that aren't the USA with drones, we can award and reward rapists and racists, we can blow off someone's shoulder for standing up for people at standing rock, but don't you dare let your lefty protest get out of hand!!
[–]_Shah_Mirzoev_ anarcho-syndicalist 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
dae peaceful transition of power???
[–]jay-20 13 points14 points15 points  (0 children)
transition's over. bring the noise
[–][deleted]  (42 children)
[removed]
[–]Neon_Bruja 23 points24 points25 points  (0 children)
Are you really tryna start that? NO ONE HERE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT HILLARY V. BERNIE YOU TEDIOUS STOOGE.
The election is over, we're stuck with this asshole. A lot of people think he represents something dangerous and evil and they wanna fight back. Deal with it, or not.
[–]gypsydrifter 31 points32 points33 points  (21 children)
"Grab them by the pussy." Straight from the horses mouth.
[–][deleted]  (3 children)
[removed]
[–]fondlemeLeroy 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
How the hell is that hard to understand lol. Just...wow.
[–]Aman3003 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
And the medal for mental gymnastics...
[–]iklos33 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
In a few weeks you'll be one of the glorious saying: "You people are the reason Trump got elected REEEEEEEEEE"
fuck right off
[–]c0ldsh0w3r comment score below threshold-17 points-16 points-15 points  (13 children)
You can't really call him a rapist though. How do we know these women didn't consent?
[–]Cheestake 16 points17 points18 points  (12 children)
"I don't even ask, I just kiss them"
[–]c0ldsh0w3r -17 points-16 points-15 points  (11 children)
Oh, you're right. From now on, whenever I'm with my gf I'll get explicit consent to kiss her.
[–]mypersonnalreader individualist anarchist 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
Do you understand what explicit consent even is?
[–]decarabiaXVII InsurrectionistACTION NOT FUCKING APATHY 11 points12 points13 points  (9 children)
These were not women he had relationships with,where the unspoken consent between two partners is a thing because of mutual trust in eachother.Even so,I still ask my partner if I can give them affection from time to time.It's just respectful.
I'm willing to throw money down that you probably didn't just maul your "gf" when you kissed them the first time,if you did then it's no surprise you see the situation in this light.
[–]c0ldsh0w3r comment score below threshold-12 points-11 points-10 points  (8 children)
How do you know he didn't have a relationship with them. You don't. You don't know anything about the situation other than what YOU have extrapolated from a single line of dialog.
YOU sir/madam, have created a scenario in your head. You have literally no idea how it went down.
[–]decarabiaXVII InsurrectionistACTION NOT FUCKING APATHY 12 points13 points14 points  (7 children)
Sounding more and more like a rape apologist as you go on.
We're done here.Thanks for showing yourself,and good question dodge.
[–][deleted]  (6 children)
[removed]
[–]PcSwagMaster comment score below threshold-20 points-19 points-18 points  (2 children)
I mean, he said women let you do whatever you want to them when you're famous. Key word being let, or consent.
It's true, most women throw themselves at rich men.
I don't understand why people are upset or calling "assault" over consent and true facts.
[–]kowalski10 anarcho-transhumanistunity is slavery 23 points24 points25 points  (0 children)
It's true, most women throw themselves at rich men.
I'm sure most women will throw themselves at you when you have a gun to their head as well.
If only there was some political theory that critiqued the structural oppression in society...
[–]LazarusFaustus anarcho-communist 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
If you put a gun to someone's head, they'll probably "let" you take their wallet.
[–]AutumnLeavesCascade anarcho-primitivist& egoist-communist 11 points12 points13 points  (1 child)
CW: rape
"The part of the book that caused the most controversy concerns Trump’s divorce from his first wife, Ivana. Hurt obtained a copy of her sworn divorce deposition, from 1990, in which she stated that, the previous year, her husband had raped her in a fit of rage. In Hurt’s account, Trump was furious that a 'scalp reduction' operation he’d undergone to eliminate a bald spot had been unexpectedly painful. Ivana had recommended the plastic surgeon. In retaliation, Hurt wrote, Trump yanked out a handful of his wife’s hair, and then forced himself on her sexually. Afterward, according to the book, she spent the night locked in a bedroom, crying; in the morning, Trump asked her, 'with menacing casualness, ‘Does it hurt?’ ' Trump has denied both the rape allegation and the suggestion that he had a scalp-reduction procedure. Hurt said that the incident, which is detailed in Ivana’s deposition, was confirmed by two of her friends."
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/documenting-trumps-abuse-of-women
[–]cookzi anarchist without adjectives 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
yessssss
[–]c0ldsh0w3r -5 points-4 points-3 points  (12 children)
Words aren't assault.
[–]intirb jewish anarchist 10 points11 points12 points  (11 children)
Nope, but they are evidence of assault.
[–]c0ldsh0w3r -4 points-3 points-2 points  (10 children)
No they aren't. That's not evidence. It's words. Evidence requires proof. A victims testimony, or an actual video of him assaulting someone. Or an eye witness. But then you'd need to prove it was unwanted.
Maybe she wanted it.
Maybe she wanted his little hands on her pussy.
Women are liberated now. They're allowed to want to be grabbed by a man.
[–]intirb jewish anarchist 11 points12 points13 points  (4 children)
A confession is considered evidence. The words don't have to come from a victim. Plus, did you read that second link?
[–]c0ldsh0w3r -4 points-3 points-2 points  (3 children)
Why is she a victim? Maybe she's a liberated woman that likes a strong forward man. Quit projecting your own sexual insecurities on her. You don't know her.
[–]intirb jewish anarchist 8 points9 points10 points  (2 children)
I'll take that as no, you didn't read it.
[–]c0ldsh0w3r -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
I did. And it's a fucking fake ass book.
[–]unsettlingideologies queer anarchist 1 point2 points3 points  (4 children)
Evidence doesn't require proof. That's not remotely how the law works. For a criminal trial, you need to convince a group of people beyond a reasonable doubt. For a civil trial you need "a preponderance of evidence" (in other words you need to think it more than likely happened).
Not to mention we aren't talking about either of these. So we all we really need is one video of a douchebag proudly proclaiming that he has learned he can just grab women's genitals whenever he feels like with no regard for what they want at all.
[–][deleted]  (2 children)
[removed]
[–]IamSeth anarchistThe Sunlight dragged me here. 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
You'd cringe if you heard how some of my buddies and I talk to each other.
Gonna be real with you, broski, most of us would probably beat your ass, not cringe. The fact that your friends are also scum does not make it okay for you to be scum. Defending rapists and discussing sexually assaulting women is not normal, no matter how hard you cry.
[–]Bananasauru5rex -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
You'd cringe if you heard how some of my buddies and I talk to each other. It's like we're competing to gross each other out. But I'd never talk that way in front of my mother.
I'm cringing because you and your friends sound like 13 year olds.
[–]insidescreamingvoice- when you come out your shit is gone 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
oops i had accidentally removed this. should be back. sry fam.
[–]HeloRising anarchist 12 points13 points14 points  (1 child)
Please provide evidence that President Trump is a "sex predator" and "rapist".
The fact that he stated that he could/did sexually assault models. In his own words. There's also the reports of him walking in on teen models changing and him, again, openly admitting he did.
I'm not sure what else to call that except sexual assault.
I'm not defending him, but I am defending critical thought.
And that's exactly the same banner that the alt-right and their white nationalist brethren wave around. Don't be shocked when you're handled the same way.
Critical though is important but it should not be the metric by which you measure if you should tell someone to go fuck themselves. The world is not a logic puzzle.
[–]EroticCake anarchist without adjectives 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
Do you not recall the "grab em by the pussy" incident? Self admitted sexual assault. Fuck off with the "critical thought" bullshit - the man is a violent degenerate.
[–]KexyKnave comment score below threshold-34 points-33 points-32 points  (15 children)
Sexual assault, sure I could believe that easily. Rape? That's a heinous crime that should have some reputable source..
I'm not in the state's so I'm not 100% informed on this but pretty sure it was a choice between "sexual assaulter idiot savant rich dude" and "war-machine clinton on record stating she'd nuke or declare war on Russia if she was elected."
[–]Meta1425 31 points32 points33 points  (2 children)
He raped his ex-wife, if I recall correctly. He somehow got away with it with the excuse being that even though she did not consent, they were married so it wasn't rape.
[–]KexyKnave 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
That's pretty archaic.. Well then.
[–]AbortusLuciferum- fash sit down or get put down 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
It's hard to accept that this could have happened, isn't it? I understand the resistance, but you have to realize that Trump is the symptom, not the disease.
[–]AutumnLeavesCascade anarcho-primitivist& egoist-communist 4 points5 points6 points  (11 children)
CW: rape
"The part of the book that caused the most controversy concerns Trump’s divorce from his first wife, Ivana. Hurt obtained a copy of her sworn divorce deposition, from 1990, in which she stated that, the previous year, her husband had raped her in a fit of rage. In Hurt’s account, Trump was furious that a 'scalp reduction' operation he’d undergone to eliminate a bald spot had been unexpectedly painful. Ivana had recommended the plastic surgeon. In retaliation, Hurt wrote, Trump yanked out a handful of his wife’s hair, and then forced himself on her sexually. Afterward, according to the book, she spent the night locked in a bedroom, crying; in the morning, Trump asked her, 'with menacing casualness, ‘Does it hurt?’ ' Trump has denied both the rape allegation and the suggestion that he had a scalp-reduction procedure. Hurt said that the incident, which is detailed in Ivana’s deposition, was confirmed by two of her friends."
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/documenting-trumps-abuse-of-women
[–]KexyKnave 1 point2 points3 points  (10 children)
Her friends as witnesses.. well it's definitely more credible than just anecdotes and the like.
So basically this election was "rapist" or "world war 3"
GG. America.
[–]AutumnLeavesCascade anarcho-primitivist& egoist-communist 9 points10 points11 points  (4 children)
You glossed over the sworn divorce deposition recorded in a court of law part. How many unaffiliated witnesses do you think are typically there for a marital rape? Too bad we don't have other hints like tons of other women documenting his sexual harassment and assaults. Oh wait, we do. Too bad he hasn't bragged about things like that. Oh wait, he has.
No one here's going to defend the Clintons, Bill very likely also committed sexual assault.
If you think Trump will not prove to be a militaristic president then I guess we will have to wait and see. Syria is not the only powderkeg.
[–]KexyKnave 3 points4 points5 points  (3 children)
I'm not saying he won't be militaristic, but so far he's been friendly with Russia, a country that the US has seriously been a dick to for a really long time regarding trade. Russia was ready to war with a Clinton administration. Honestly the fact that these two are the best the US came up with is depressing af.
[–]AutumnLeavesCascade anarcho-primitivist& egoist-communist 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
That I think we can all agree on.
[–]ShortSomeCash 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
The US is a dick to Russia in trade because they invaded the fucking Ukraine. It's not as simple as Clinton=WW3, donald=peace; ties to someone like Putin are troubling
[–]AbortusLuciferum- fash sit down or get put down 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
I assume you're saying WW3 would start over the no-fly zone thing and shooting down russian planes that violated it.
If America set up a no-fly zone and shot down russian planes, there certainly would be tensions, because it wouldn't have been without a warning. I really don't understand this immediate jump to WW3. It sounds overly dramatic and fear-mongering against Hillary. Did Putin say he would continue to bomb Aleppo even after a no-fly zone was set up? Did Putin say that if America shot down a plane of theirs he would declare war on America?
[–]KexyKnave 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
Clinton said she'd declare war, iirc, as a response to "cyber attacks"
[–]AbortusLuciferum- fash sit down or get put down 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
I'm gonna need a source on that.
[–]KexyKnave -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
theduran.com So it was mainly threats, but not only against Russia, against the country that makes just about everything people in the state's use lol.
[–]scrappyd anarchist 50 points51 points52 points  (16 children)
It seems that liberals like to come in here and defend the property rights of the elite and then delete their comments once they get called out on their absurdity.
[–]RegentYeti socialist 22 points23 points24 points  (14 children)
Except it's never the elite that actually get harmed by this sort of thing. It's always the low wage workers that catch the fallout. Protest violence is exactly the thing that the oligarchy likes to see. Poor people attacking and making enemies of other poor people. Burn down a million dollar mansion or a yacht, I'm all for it. Burn down a Starbucks and a couple corporations lose an almost unnoticeable amount, while a bunch of baristas can't make rent this month.
[–]ieatpussy69 Other: dada communist 12 points13 points14 points  (0 children)
If you don't go shopping the workers at the mall will lose their jobs! Shame on you!
If you don't start smoking the workers at the cigarette factory will lose their jobs! Shame on you!
If you don't burn down the starbucks then the poor firefighters will lose their jobs! Shame on you!
[–]Galleani 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
Protest violence is exactly the thing that the oligarchy likes to see. Poor people attacking and making enemies of other poor people. Burn down a million dollar mansion or a yacht, I'm all for it. Burn down a Starbucks and a couple corporations lose an almost unnoticeable amount, while a bunch of baristas can't make rent this month.
Actually I think it's this line of thought that the oligarchy likes to see. It effectively stops protest before it goes too far. "Don't do that, it'll hurt the workers." Thus the workers become a sort of ideological human shield for the corporations to hide behind.
[–]noisewitch2 7 points8 points9 points  (4 children)
Truly spoken like someone who's never worked low wage jobs before. Here's a little hint. The workers at low wage jobs do not care about or like their jobs. if they need to make rent, they just go apply at the dunn brothers across the street. Please, PLEASE burn down our workplaces. We do not care.
[–]RegentYeti socialist -4 points-3 points-2 points  (3 children)
they just go apply at the dunn brothers across the street.
Spoken like someone who has never had to starve themself to pay bills after losing a crap job. You think it's a matter of just applying for another job and there won't be an interruption in wages? Nobody cares about their Starbucks/7-11/McDonald's job on it's own merits, but losing it unexpectedly is almost invariably devastating.
[–]noisewitch2 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
your employer has insurance to cover some wages if a place gets fucked up.
your fears are not grounded in reality.
[–]RegentYeti socialist -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
So your plan is to rely on both the insurance company to pay out promptly and the employer to tell their employees that there's money for them if they want it?
It sounds like you're more interested in wreaking destruction than actually making things better for the most vulnerable of us. In all fairness though, it seems to be a common opinion on this thread.
The goal should be freedom and equality for everyone, and the method should be smashing the state.
[–]noisewitch2 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
stop concern trolling. smashing windows at a starbucks didn't put any poor desperate workers on the street.
[–]scrappyd anarchist 24 points25 points26 points  (6 children)
That is the narrative that liberals are trying to paint during all of this but it is far from the truth. Corporations hate losing money and broken windows mean higher insurance bills. Replacing glass hurts the bottom line and investors hate that. The mess gets cleaned up extremely fast and the most anyone is actually out of work is a day or two, (the days they should have taken off to protest in the first place.) Even when it is a picture of a busted up limo the liberals are speculating about the poor guy that probably worked his whole life to run a limo in D.C. only to have his lifestyle ruined. That narrative is simply not true. Capitalism needs to be stopped for the people to be able to earn what they are worth. Stopping commerce while life still going communally on is a huge threat to them, therefore this mess will be cleaned up and people will be back to work tomorrow. The only losers are the shareholders.
[–]abnalahad comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points  (5 children)
What do you mean "What we are worth"? People aren't naturally just worth anything, we have no right to money or happiness just the right to pursue those goals.
[–]scrappyd anarchist 12 points13 points14 points  (0 children)
The work that we do generates capital. Unfortunately there is a parasite class of society that take our profits and leave us to fight over the scraps. The earth alone provides for every mans need. Not every mans greed.
[–]TomViolence anarcho-syndicalist 3 points4 points5 points  (3 children)
Hahaha what? Sure on some level you might have a point. Except people born into wealth and privilege have a huge amount of power and money they're not entitled to, even if we accept your premise. So, sure, I might not have an inherent, objective worth, but then neither does Donald Trump or Queen elizabeth, so why do they get to live in luxury while I don't? Why do I bust my hump for minimum wage while they get the world on a silver platter?
[–]shingonzo -8 points-7 points-6 points  (2 children)
because the world isnt fair. it never has been, we just gotta play the cards we're dealt.
[–]noisewitch2 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
SUBMIT! You cannot ask for more than what you have now!
And the right calls us weak willed.
[–]TomViolence anarcho-syndicalist 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Oh but we can make it fair, buddy. Lying down like a whipped dog might be good enough for you, but there's such a thing as self-respect.
[–]hankamarillowasajoke Mutualism Classic℠ 42 points43 points44 points  (23 children)
"Violent protests".
Yeah, right. A bunch of people who doesn't know what "direct action" is talking about "violence".
[–]-Enkara-Reddit is for Cishet White Boys 37 points38 points39 points  (0 children)
Semantics, I don't care if folks call burning shit "violent protests" as long as they're down.
[–][deleted]  (21 children)
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[–]mypersonnalreader individualist anarchist 19 points20 points21 points  (4 children)
That's not what fascism is.
[–][deleted]  (3 children)
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[–]mypersonnalreader individualist anarchist 22 points23 points24 points  (1 child)
No, fighting back against rising authoritarianism is not authoritarian either. Try again.
[–]Aikidi 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Yo just report that dude, he's all over trolling people with this "but what about the fascists" bullshit. I reported him, hoping the mods ban soon.
[–]jbkjbk2310 anarchist without adjectives| We will inheret the earth -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
liberals get out reeeeeeeeeeee
[–]noisewitch2 11 points12 points13 points  (13 children)
lol change your flair liberal
[–]decarabiaXVII InsurrectionistACTION NOT FUCKING APATHY 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
liberal
more like infiltrator.
[–][deleted]  (11 children)
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[–]noisewitch2 12 points13 points14 points  (3 children)
you dismiss yourself when you say its fascism to beat up fascists.
[–]AbortusLuciferum- fash sit down or get put down 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
I wonder how anti antifas suggest people should fight antifas, given they believe antifas are the real fascists. They can't do it with violence otherwise they're the real real fascists
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[–]noisewitch2 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
I am incredibly comfortable with bullying these pricks
[–]HeloRising anarchist 8 points9 points10 points  (6 children)
You burn an awful lot of bandwidth playing devil's advocate here.
Look, kudos for "rationality" but what you're effectively advocating for is for people who may have a genuine fear for their safety to sit down and have a rational discussion about Trump.
At this point, if you need some kind of rational discussion/debate to help you make up your mind, it's pretty clear what camp you're in or that you're so committed to neutrality that you're rooted to the fence and the inability to take a position in times that increasingly demand you take one is a betrayal all its own.
Or to use language his voters might be more familiar with;
"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm I spew you from my mouth."
[–]PM_ME_DANK_ME_MES comment score below threshold-10 points-9 points-8 points  (5 children)
hey you worked it out! rational discourse is dead, there is only 24 hour fearmongering now. lets not make political decisions on substance, policy, or issues, lets make them on who can be whipped into the most hysterical fear.
[–]HeloRising anarchist 3 points4 points5 points  (4 children)
You can only have rational discourse with people who are willing to talk with you.
The fascists are not willing to talk. Trump has enough power that he doesn't need to talk.
[–]PM_ME_DANK_ME_MES -5 points-4 points-3 points  (3 children)
not sure if /s or /irony
i will engage in rational discourse with provable inferences and logical principle any day of the week. however, calling people fascists or nazis only shuts down debate. i will chose to fight with words over violence every day, and if society at large is not aligned with my views, that simply makes my views unpopular, it does not make me oppressed.
[–]AbortusLuciferum- fash sit down or get put down 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
i will chose to fight with words over violence every day
They you will lose because the sword is mightier than the pen. If you're an undocumented immigrant and the secret police comes into your house ordering you to self-deport, you won't be able to argue "it's not self-deportation if I'm being coerced" when they grab you by the throat.
Fascists yearn for a society where debate is shut down, if they win, your precious logic and rationality will get you nowhere, so long as they see you "unfit" for their society, your word is worthless. So anti fascists turn that back on them. If you're defending a society where my word is worthless, then your word is worthless.
FRANK FRISON, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: “If fascism could be defeated in debate, I assure you that it would never have happened, neither in Germany, nor in Italy, nor anywhere else.”
ADOLF HITLER: “Only one thing could have stopped our movement - if our adversaries had understood its principle and from the first day smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.”
[–]HeloRising anarchist 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
i will engage in rational discourse with provable inferences and logical principle any day of the week.
And that's great. What happens when the other side doesn't want to talk?
[–]PM_ME_DANK_ME_MES -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
well this is where anarchy and libertarianism breaks down doesnt it. we rely on the rule of law to protect free speech, for without it the only discourse is violence. just as we rely on government intervention to prevent market monopolisation and to enforce laws protecting vulnerable people from criminal abuse. this is why people bother to protest government, because policy has concrete outcomes.
case in point, im a trumper, and we're talking right now, rather than fighting.
[–]paradoxicaleu anarcho-communist 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Fascism is actually characterised by a centralized, single-party authoritarian state with a merging of capitalism with the state, and generally indoctrinating people into believing that they are superior to other people in order to provide a scapegoat. Punching those people in the face is not that.
[–]hankamarillowasajoke Mutualism Classic℠ -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
No, Trump and his supporters are the fascists (nationalism, a leader figure, highly hierarchical society and hate speech based on ignorant conservative values). Considering this, fighting 'em isn't a antisocial act, it's a social duty.
[–]Tiffany_Stallions 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Two wrongs don't make a right, but two wrongs sure as hell can make a president. And he just keeps providing more and more wrongs...
[–]edselford mutualist 16 points17 points18 points  (2 children)
Was expecting this ...
[–]atxweirdo green anarchist 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Fucking rad
[–]Quincy_Quick anarcho-communist 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
If you voted at all...
[–]jbkjbk2310 anarchist without adjectives| We will inheret the earth 8 points9 points10 points  (2 children)
boy this is a fun thread
[–]mypersonnalreader individualist anarchist 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
Feels like it's getting brigaded
[–]noisewitch2 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
theres no way it isn't
[–]CynicalJoePlus Anti-fascistBASH THE FASH 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
Speaking of Bash the Fash, we need a video compilation of the best moments and antifa highlights!
[–]TheGreenKnight920 philosophical anarchist[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I also love when you roast them and all they come up with is "uhhhhhh you fuckin baby!"
[–]cyclingsocialist 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
This is what I think of every time I hear someone swoon over the "peaceful transition of power."
How the fuck is electing a man who wanted to use nukes on North Korea, kill the families of suspected terrorists, ban Muslims (and create a registry), assault women, demonize people of color, build a wall of isolation along the Mexican border...
How the fuck is any of that peaceful? How is this a peaceful transition?
Sure, maybe Democratic voters didn't get punched in the face, but just because the violence doesn't touch you doesn't make it peaceful.
[–]anticusII 1 point2 points3 points  (4 children)
Mostly I just wish people would stop acting like they have such strong morals. You're just arguing about something you don't like.
[–]c0ldsh0w3r 5 points6 points7 points  (3 children)
My violence is justified.
So said every asshole ever.
[–]anticusII comment score below threshold-10 points-9 points-8 points  (2 children)
Spoiler: I voted for Trump
I did it because I liked him better than I liked Hillary. That's all there was to it. I wasn't offended or scared or mad
[–]noisewitch2 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
and you certainly didn't give a flying fuck about muslims, women, immigrants, or anyone else that isn't a straight white male.
[–]MeatGrinderEnt 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
You can say that you aren't homophobic, or racist, or even prejudice but the fact of the matter is you endorsed somebody who is; it is like you saw a skinhead screaming racist rhetoric at the top of his lungs and you look over at your friend and say "that doesn't represent me" but still put money in his bucket.
[–]TheCrimsonScout my beliefs are far too special.Libertarian Trenchcoat Socialism 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
She got herself a new follower
[–]Hockeymama2 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I'll simplify the entire career of those labels and that spectrum.
[–]notsurewhatiam 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
We would've been better off with Hillary.
[–]ShortSomeCash 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Nah the accelerationism express might be our only hope against climate change
[–]lzm3 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Also screw trump, and all the people to be stopped for the corporations to hide behind.
[–]PipingHotSoup 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
Kind of out of the loop as I avoid politics.
Could someone provide a link to where he bragged about this?
[–]StillRadioactive 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
OK, I keep seeing this phrase both here and from Communists. ELI5 bash the fash?
[–]Krawgnor 18 points19 points20 points  (1 child)
"If you cannot convince a Fascist, acquaint his head with the pavement." -Leon Trotsky
[–]StillRadioactive 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Well, that takes doubt out of the picture.
[–]-fno-stack-protector liberal 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
you know mario, how he jumps on turtles and shit? replace the turtles with literal nazis
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[–]CarsonReps Stirnerist anarchist| syndicalist | georgist | absurdist 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
What the fuck is this
[–]Aethyrvorous -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
This is basically a non sequitur
[–][deleted]  (4 children)
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[–]hankamarillowasajoke Mutualism Classic℠ 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
That's because they were not in position of refusing it. Imagine you as a woman with Donald fucking Trump putting the hands under your skirt, consider the fact that it probably happened with women from show biz. I'll simplify: the entire career of those women were on game, and again, there's nothing they could do but accept and pray for it to end up quickly. The fact that they didn't said they wanted it doesn't mean they wanted it.
[–]PossumAttack socialist 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
In English, "When you have a knife against their throat, they let you do anything," is a statement that makes perfect sense. So "they let you do it" is quite a ways away from 'consent.'
I'd actually say it might imply it's far from something they enjoyed/wanted, but tolerated/'let happen' because going against rich, powerful, temperamental and potentially sexually aggressive individual is not always an easy thing to do, but I have my biases.
Not to mention it only seems to get more unsettling the more context is added. https://i.reddituploads.com/2e9b230c2c5345339761941f7645bc1a?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=66a4ebc053466f3fcf4d0c239e39a06b
[–]shingonzo -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
https://youtu.be/l8U0IaMsRf4?t=1m14s listen to it in context, dont make up your own.
[–]PossumAttack socialist 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Yes, I've seen the videos before, thanks - it feels like at least half of the US has by now. No context was made up, though. The quote I posted was what he said verbatim.
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[–]paradoxicaleu anarcho-communist 7 points8 points9 points  (3 children)
"I just grab them by the pussy - I don't even wait." Sound consensual to you?
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[–]Toparov 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
"They just let you do it" in the context on of "not even waiting" means they aren't consenting, he is just doing it and they are not resisting, which is sexual assault.
But I prefer the full court deposition by his ex wife with a witness about how he violently raped her.
[–]LookslikeaBunyip anarchist -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
Eye for an eye makes the world blind - Yoda, probably
[–]geek_loser Other: Conservative comment score below threshold-13 points-12 points-11 points  (3 children)
Bill Clinton?
[–]jbkjbk2310 anarchist without adjectives| We will inheret the earth 15 points16 points17 points  (1 child)
No one here likes him either
[–]Geisterjager 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
It never really sinks in.
[–]HALF_ORC queer anarchist 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
We hate liberals
[–][deleted]  (9 children)
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[–]noisewitch2 2 points3 points4 points  (8 children)
seems like you're on board with punching fascists then! they don't even need you to disagree with them to advocate violence against you, you just have to be born wrong!
I'm glad you seem to understand our position, even though you're a gay marriage opposing liberal :)
[–]SuperFreddy -4 points-3 points-2 points  (7 children)
I'm no supporter of fascism, nationalism, or Trump. I am against all forms of violence.
And yup. You could probably call me liberal. Mexican, interracially married, universal healthcare supporter, pro-legalization of marijuana. Then again you could also focus on my "conservative" positions and think the opposite. Folks come in many colors.
[–]noisewitch2 6 points7 points8 points  (6 children)
conservatives are liberals. you are probably thinking within the nearly asinine version of the "political spectrum" that is understood in america.
if you're against all forms of violence, why are you talking about punching us for punching nazis?
[–]SuperFreddy 0 points1 point2 points  (5 children)
I wasn't exactly speaking fondly of those labels and that spectrum. My point was the the spectrum is broken and isn't able to neatly place everyone in a category.
Also my punch comment was satire meant to highlight the absurdity of this logic. People who spread violence can't complain when it comes back to themselves. I don't want to live in a world where everyone is assaulting each other.
[–]noisewitch2 4 points5 points6 points  (4 children)
ok fine, will we have your permission to start fighting back when these brownshirt shitbags start genociding minorities?
[–]SuperFreddy -1 points0 points1 point  (3 children)
Rather, when is it NOT okay to use violence? Where is the line? Who draws it? Can it be redrawn?
[–]noisewitch2 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
have you been living under a rock your whole life? the individual defines when its okay to use violence, where the line is, and if it can be redrawn. that is the way it has always worked and always will work.
Why do I get the sneaking supsicion that you don't get upset like this when police use threats of/actual violence to evict poor families from their homes?
[–]SuperFreddy -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
If the individual decides, then you have no problem with being punched because someone doesn't like what you're saying?
I don't agree with the use of police violence to evict people from their homes. That does upset me.
[–]noisewitch2 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
If the individual decides, then you have no problem with being punched because someone doesn't like what you're saying?
It doesn't matter if I had a problem with it or not, it will either happen or it wont. You seem to be seeking some guiding fatherly hand from on high that will bind everyone together in obligation.
Look, no matter what rules or axioms you follow, other people have the physical capability to break those rules and axioms at any time. So you can either defend yourself against the nazis who think that your mexican heritage and interracial marriage are justification for violence against you, or you can smile beatifically and yammer on about peace while they destroy your physical body and destroy the bodies of your family members.
thats whats at stake here buddy.
And thats an extremely standard, normal part of a cops job. everything a cop does is backed by an implied or explicit threat of violence. ask yourself, why is it ok for a group of people with 4x the rate of sociopathy and domestic violence as the general population to have a monopoly on force?
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