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Socialismsocialism

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Welcome to /r/socialism

Socialism as a political system is defined by democratic and social control of the means of production by the workers for the good of the community rather than capitalist profit, based fundamentally on the abolition of private property relations.
Socialism is also a sociopolitical movement dedicated to the critique and dismantling of exploitative structures, including economic, gendered, ethnic oppression.
Socialism, as a movement, confronts these different systems of oppression as mutually conditioning, intersectional, and/or dialectically related within the current hegemonic order. It seeks to overcome oppression in a holistic manner without neglecting any particular axis so that it might be eliminated and genuine social emancipation may be realized. We recognize that Socialism cannot be achieved while structural oppression continues and workers are divided.
We look forward to your participation in our sub, but please be mindful of our posting guidelines.
Are you new to socialist ideas? Wondering what alternatives to capitalism exist? Please check out our educational materials and wiki further down in this sidebar.

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7th January, 2017 Bhaskar Sunkara Founding Editor and Publisher of Jacobin Magazine

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[–]Kirbyoto 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
Moore's argument is convincing enough for me.
That's a terrible theory. "Killing babies for fun is wrong" is a common but not even universal moral idea.
Where the hell are people getting this idea that morality being subjective means that you can't have your own personal standards? Good God Almighty. It's a provable fact. There's psychological data on how morality works and it is deeply personal. If you can't say that you don't like people killing children without it being an "objective fact of the universe" what the hell are you doing?
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[–]maro12579- no labels[S] 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Metaethics isn't something that psychology even pretends to have any knowledge about. You'd have to look at philosophy for that. And the fact that moral relativism is an extremely fringe position amongst philosophers says a lot about its defensibility.
If morality is subjective and your "personal standards" are all that matter, then you're forced to hold the position that Hitler's actions weren't morally wrong. After all, no moral facts exist, and his personal standards told him that Jews were inferior and deserved to be exterminated.
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[–]Kirbyoto 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
you're forced to hold the position that Hitler's actions weren't morally wrong
Jesus Christ, what did I just say? It's this: "Where the hell are people getting this idea that morality being subjective means that you can't have your own personal standards?"
I believe Hitler's actions were morally wrong, because I'm judging it according to my beliefs. He didn't believe his actions were wrong, because they're according to his beliefs. Both of us would act on our beliefs, which is to say, he would try to carry out his fascist plan, and I would try to stop him. All of these things are objective facts, and if you're trying to base your actions on the belief that there's something else happening, you're going to fail.
You'd have to look at philosophy for that.
Philosophy isn't a real area of study. Psychology is. There's a reason moral relativism is a "fringe position" among philosophers, and it's because it'd put them out of work - after all, philosophy is a capitalist practice, and philosophers need to make themselves useful in order to get even the slightest bit of work.
Sorry, but I'll take the field that uses observable data over the one inspired by Greek guys bullshitting. I mean, you do realize almost all the ancient philosophers were also hypothesizing about things like "what the universe is made of", which is a field that we now address with science? We don't pretend like the universe is made of fire, like Heraclitus believed, or that the sun orbits the earth, like Ptolemy believed. Why, exactly, should we put our trust in philosophers when they're a field that has always historically been based around having zero evidence?
Anyways, good luck convincing people to become vegans if your only policy is shouting THAT'S OBJECTIVELY WRONG at them.
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