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How to break from toxic masculinity? (self.MensLib)

dabbo93 が 投稿

I've recently begun to realize how much toxic masculinity I've been indoctrinated with since childhood. I've never been the alpha macho man type that was expected of me over time I felt like something was wrong with me. God forbid I show my emotions or be sensitive because that's being weak. At one point I was far more sensitive and less shy about expressing my feelings but over time I've learned to hid my feelings. I hate it but I just don't know how to start being sensitive and compassionate again. Has anyone been in a similar situation or find ways to start expressing themselves again?

Now I can see that's ridiculous but a part of me is still holding onto the baggage of thinking that I have to fit into gender roles. I really want to break free and just fuck it all but I'm really afraid to do that. But it's necessary because I hate it.

As much as I hate to admit it I have some fucked up views about women that I want to get rid of, I'm just not sure where to start. It's weird because intellectually I agree with feminism but emotionally I'm too hostile and judgmental towards women. I really want to start viewing women as equals and stop objecting them. Any ideas on where/how to start?

I'm happy that a place like this exists I'm nervous to be sharing all this hopefully someone can relate and point me in a good direction. I'm just tired of being so obsessed with sex it's caused a lot of damage in my life. Alright that's enough of me ranting.

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[–]Tarcolt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

First up - Chances are you are already breaking away from Toxic Masculinity, just being aware of it is probably the biggest step, maybe not the hardest, but certainly the biggest. You are doing something not a lot of guys can, so well done on that account.

This is where things get hard though, and I'm probably going to say something a little contentious here, so bracce yourself...

You probably won't be able to undo it all.

There are always bits of toxic masculinity that get left over, even after you 'escape'. Think of these as Toxic masculinity scars, there are going to be bits of you where you drop into doing TM things, unless you really overexert yourself to catch them (which is incredibly taxing). There are also going to be people who encourage and laud you TM attributes, they mean well but its won't help you overcome it, so be aware.

What I suggest doing is to have a model of masculinity you aspire to. One to replace what you had. One that others should also aspire to (you get to be subjective here!).

I don't know what you mean when you say you objectify women, I would either ask you to be a bit more specific, or just read up on the matter. I find that a lot of the times "objectifying" is thrown around, it really isn't whats happening. You are allowed to be physicaly attracted to people, and you are allowed to comment on that, just as long as you remember that they are 'an people' just like the rest of us.

[–]Personage1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

First and foremost, accept that you will fail at this simetimes. It's ok. If shrugging off gender roles was something you could do without failing sometimes, then you would already have done it. Failing doesn't make you a bad person.

Next I recommend you start (or continue) listening. Listen to people with the goal of understanding them. I think that empathy and self reflection are closely linked, and you need both to rise past gender roles and misogyny.

Another thing I think is important is who you surround yourself with. I cut toxic people out of my life which helped eliminate direct influences for me to be toxic. That doesn't mean don't ever interact with people who are more toxic (especially in a professional setting), but the people closest to you in many ways should reflect who you want to be, and having a support structure of sane people helps you deal with everything else.

Specifically for showing emotions, I recommend writing things out. I think a lot of the problem with expressing emotions is not really having a concrete grasp on what you're feeling in the first place. Writing things out helps you to articulate better, and over time you need to write less and less to understand yourself.

Those are just a few thoughts. Good luck.

[–]Visby [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hey dude - I'd say you're already off to a good start! Whilst I'm not a dude, I used to be mired in to internalised misogyny (I was a straight up 'why are all girls bitches' / 'i'm not like other girls' kind of asshole, which is now super embarrassing to me) - so I'm sorry if this isn't all that helpful, but I saw there were no comments on this, and I really wanted to say that I think it's awesome that you're at the stage where you are actively asking for input from people who have potentially been at this a little longer than you. That's a great sign in itself.

For me personally, it was a kind of lengthy process which started in a similar way to you - I felt hostile towards a lot of the things that I read or heard which I felt were like some kind of attack on me and the way I was. I realise now that this was mostly just me being afraid of taking that step - of recognising that I'd done and said shitty things. You're kind of ahead of that, though: The fact that you've identified your knee-jerk emotional responses is important - this is the first step to actively challenge these feelings, the sudden realisation that something you have done is potentially irrational or damaging.

My best advice would be to keep questioning / thinking analytically about these feelings, as you seem to have been doing - if a thought rises up, take a couple of seconds to ask yourself whether it's a rational response, or whether it's simply your own issues taking the wheel. As I said, for me it was kind of a long process (one which is still going on today, really!), but it's about actively making a choice to behave a certain way, even if it feels really unnaturally weird.

It may take a little while, but the more you try, the easier it becomes to undo the toxic shit that's been embedded over however many years - you don't have to do this overnight, you're free to take your time. :) I think /r/MensLib is a good place for you to start bc it begins to introduce you (as a dude) to concepts / language relating to feminism, but obviously talking about issues which might be more relatable to you as a dude!

Anyway, this got super long - I hope some of it was at least useful! TL;DR keep on truckin', buddy - you'll get there!

[–]WorseThanHipster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Self awareness is most important and it sounds like you're making that journey already.

I think there's many approaches. I treat it as critical thinking. If you're embarrassed, or confused, or angry, or frustrated, ask yourself why, as yourself if you were a woman, a gay man, an old man, disabled, poor, anyone who isn't you, would you be feeling the same way about this? If you can think of a situation where you would feel differently about a situation simply based on an identity change, it's a good time to consider why. Perhaps culturally imposed gender norms are to blame.

This approach isn't specific to avoiding and breaking down toxic preconceptions about masculinity. But a side benefit of this approach is it gives you pause when you're upset which is a good first step to improving coping mechanisms, and it also ought to help improve your empathy, which is just good in general.

[–]mach-2 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Lurk female oriented spaces more. They will point out these attitudes to you. most importantly go in with the mindset of knowing that if you decide to contribute, they might challenge your pov, no matter how logical you might think that view is. Remember, some of their criticisms may also come off as harsh so be prepared to always do more of the listening.

[–]Zachums [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I dunno, I'm subscribed to trollx and that place can be equally toxic sometimes. A post will mock guys sending unwanted dick pics (rightfully so) and then immediately talk about how small the penis was as an insult (boo). I don't have a solution for the OP with my comment, I'm just saying that the woman-centric subs are not without their own faults, too.

[–]AmericaThePercipient [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, tread with caution, but tread nonetheless! Maybe it's not liberation-from-toxic-behaviors-101 (maybe more like 401), but if you have a solid notion of your non-toxic strengths and a self-compassionate awareness of yur toxic faults, it is probably the best place to find new perspectives on and ways to embody the egalitarianism that OP clearly values. Perhaps the underlying lesson i've learned (with most issues pertaining to self-valuation) is just to avoid idealizing others' views of how you should be, while finding the strength for reasonable self-improvement

[–]mwenechanga [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Sure, but their faults are not identical to your faults, so it can still help you understand the bigger picture.

[–]Zachums [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree, I was just saying that going to those subs isn't automatically a way to fix his situation.

[–]golden_boy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Make friends with girls and check yourself.

For the vulnerability issues you just need to keep reminding yourself that no one actually gives a rats ass (or at least no one worth being around). Push your boundaries. Get a manicure. Order a cosmopolitan at the bar. Ask people how their day was and encourage them to vent.

[–]somelikeitinthetwat [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

God forbid I show my emotions

Men show their emotions all the time, they just don't see anger as an emotion.

Crying in public is seen as a weakness by many people, male or female. My wife likes to hide the fact that she's crying. The tears coming out of your eyes is a window into your emotional state, and letting others know what your emotional state is is private for some people. It's like playing a card game where you just let your opponents see your hand. Or it's like being nude. Some people are OK with being nude, some people are not. And while hiding your emotions can be something you're taught by others, just like modesty and morals, it is something internal to your self.

When I was a little boy my grandmother died. My parents asked me why I didn't cry, I was encouraged to cry. I just didn't feel like crying and that's OK.

The fact that you don't cry doesn't mean you're "toxic". Toxic masculinity would be when you felt like crying but physically forced yourself not to cry. Or you felt compassion toward someone, but forced yourself not to show compassion. Or you were hanging out with a cool woman but you forced yourself to see her as a walking pussy with tits.

And noticing and being attracted to a woman's curves doesn't automatically make you an objectifying asshole.

[–]Ciceros_Assassin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Good point; the important thing isn't necessarily how you display your emotions, it's recognizing and understanding them and not artificially suppressing them. Tools like emotion wheels can be helpful for building that vocabulary.

Additionally, you can help break the cycle by being supportive of other men. Let a buddy or a brother show his emotions if he needs to. This part goes for both men and women.

[–]reddsweater [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I must admit, I don't really know how to help, but I have been there. I just wanted to let you know that while it may be an uncomfortable experience, you can definitely become the sort of person that you can be proud of, as I have.

The only tips I can give are as follows:

  1. Prejudice, at least in my case, does not seem to go away. It isn't a struggle, as you likely feel now, it's more of an echo that's always there. I've made peace with it, because I will not be ruled by hate, I will not be governed by my prejudice. It bends to my will, and my will says 'No.'

  2. While most people are perfectly fine, there are mean and obnoxious people in the world, spoiled, arrogant, toxic, and ignorant people. Naturally, some of these people will be women. When you meet these people, especially those who are women, you will likely be tempted to use this moment as an opportunity to exercise your prejudice, as I have before, these are the moments that are most difficult, as this person will make you feel justified in your hatred of them. While you will be well within reason to be angry with and criticize them it is very important you do not use this moment as an excuse to exercise your prejudice, as I once did. That was about two years ago, I never did it again. To be clear I didn't realize this until after I did it and felt something was wrong, so you may have to fail before you realize this. I hope not, but I still thought I'd mention it.

[–]ikma [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think it's important to have someone to talk to/bounce ideas off of, without being worried that you will be judged. This is a pretty good place for that, or it might be good if you have a friend who is going through the same process. For me, talking to a therapist has been really helpful. And not because I have any major issues; I'm not depressed, or bipolar, or anything else. I just started seeing a therapist because I wanted to better understand myself and how my mind works.

So I go in and we talk about things like why I tend to immediately and harshly judge someone who acts arrogant, but other 'negative' personality traits (dishonesty, pettiness, etc.) don't cause the same gut reaction. Or how I want to be comfortable and secure with the fact that my girlfriend was pretty promiscuous before we met, but that I still struggle with it emotionally from time to time. We talk through what I'm feeling and where it might be coming from, and by the time I leave, I'm usually feeling much better about it. And the next time those situations come up, I'm better equipped to deal with them in the way that I want to.

This definitely requires finding the right therapist, so you might need to take some time trying out a couple before you find the right one, but it's really been invaluable to me and I'd definitely recommend it.

[–]QdwachMD [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You've been given a lot of great advice already. I just want to say; be patient, it will take a lot of time. Don't force yourself too much and don't beat yourself up when you think you failed.

It's a long road to unlearn all of those things that feel so natural right now. Good luck.

[–]peepeefinger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0361684313497471

This article suggests that misandry/misogyny is correlated with attachment/security issues in a developmental sense. Read this and ask yourself if there are some situations in your past that would cause you to be wary of women.

If that's not the case, research the different ways our society conditions us to view women as objects and bring that up into your everyday awareness. Try to interact with women more, but if only if you're comfortable doing so. Make sure you can be sensitive to their issues. Silence is your most powerful tool. Sometimes shutting up and listening is the best thing you can do when it comes to oppressed groups. People have a lot to say. Don't force anyone to share their experiences, but if they do share, thank them for speaking and learn from what they have to say. Make sure to get multiple viewpoints and keep up that critical perspective.