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DiscussionDoes our lack of threat from set pieces infuriate anyone else? (self.reddevils)

H-E-I-S-E-N-B-E-R-G が 投稿

Atm we are ranked 18th in the league in terms of goals from set pieces, a whole 9 goals behind Liverpool on 16, ourselves on 7 with only Sunderland and Boro worse off than us on 5 goals a piece.

How are we so useless from set pieces? We have capable free kick takers in Mata, Ibra, Pogba, and Rooney judging by yesterday along with players with good to great technique such as Miki, Blind, etc. So how can we not, if not score from set pieces, at the very least be capable of delivering decent deliveries into the box. I mean, along with our CB's who like all CB's are at the very least capable from set pieces, we also have a 6'5 striker and 6'3 midfielder who I don't think I've seen come near being on the end of a set piece for the last 3 months. We even have games where we have an extra 6'4 midfielder thrown into the mix, like yesterday, yet we still looked as toothless as ever from set pieces into the box.

We've got guys like Rashford, Martial, Carrick, Darmian, all roughly 6'0, I don't expect them to tower over defenders but I'd hope they could at least look a bit dangerous considering all our opponents best aerial defenders are occupied with our CB's, Pogba, and Ibra. Teams like Atletico have won titles based around set pieces and I don't think the weapons they had in that side were that much better than what we have at our disposal, if better at all. Fuck, even that Mourinho Chelsea side with Ivanovic, Terry and Cahill was incredible from set pieces, they had sooo many games decided due to how good they were from set pieces, so how is there such a big gap between that Mourinho side and this Mourinho side?

Sorry if this seems like a rant but I just can't understand why we are so shit at this side of our game, especially when set pieces are an invaluable asset to have against sides that "park the bus", sides we have clearly struggled against this year.

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[–]omegaxLoLAnder Herrera 109 ポイント110 ポイント  (5子コメント)

A lot, especially considering we were all jerking off to the amount of tall players we now had in the team at the start of the season. While that part is still true, our set piece delivery is shit.

[–]ibaRRaVzLaJosé Mourinho 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We need Jones taking those bloody corners.

[–]Noneek 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have tall players to make it easier, as we have no coherent set piece strategy.

[–]scholeszzMkhitaryan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just tall is not enough though, you need players who can actually attack the ball and score. Honestly Jones, Smalling, Rojo may be tall but they are terrible at that. Only Ibrahimovic is someone in our team I would back to be able to attack a cross and cause the keeper trouble.

[–]DesOconnorScholesy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rooney seems to have gone backwards with his heading. For a long while he was fantastic at attacking the ball. I also think Pogba is generally decent, but looked really poor obviously vs Lovren.

[–]twersxRashford 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jones and Rojo can hardly afford to be in the box on every corner.

[–]af0teyBlind 260 ポイント261 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Think Pogba or Mata should be taking direct free kicks, I am sick to death of Ibra hitting the wall.

[–]TheJoshider10De Gea 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba hitting the post is just expected at this point. Mata is brilliant at free kicks but depending on the angle it should be him or Pogba.

[–]TheGoldenHawk 120 ポイント121 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Maybe we should let Rooney take a few more free-kicks? I hear he's pretty good at them.

[–]DesOconnorScholesy 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rooney was taking free kicks for years and he was dogshit, unless he was aiming for the wall the whole time. Great free kick for sure, but it doesn't mean he's suddenly an awesome free kick taker. (I don't hate Rooney if that is brought up, I just think he is a poor free kick taker).

IMO it should be Mata or Pogba. Mata has shown consistency with good efforts, as has Pogba with the small amount he's been allowed.

Either way, it shouldn't be Zlatan. He has been terrible on them.

[–]pc1109 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeh it's such a strange time for this rant to come about. Literally just scored from a set piece. Only really quality bit of the match.

Not saying it's something that shouldn't be talked about, but the timing seems off.

[–]oldtraffordfaithful 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think OP is mainly referring to corner kicks.

[–]warblicious 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, if Blind isn't playing our corners are routinely atrocious.

[–]H-E-I-S-E-N-B-E-R-G[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

One occasion doesn't cancel out the dozens of other wasted opportunities. Besides, I'm more concerned about corners and free kicks delivered in rather than shot at goal

[–]dddalal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Off the 250 , only 6 have been freekicks , how does that make him good ?

[–]M1904 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thats the Zlatan method. Slam the ball as hard as you can into the wall, hope it injures one of your opponents.

A goal may only be temporary but a Nike Ordem 4 shaped hole in the chest from a Zlatan cannon is permanent.

[–]mannahmannahScholes 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Uhh do you all forget how close Pogba has been on directs this season? He's hit the woodwork several times. Only a matter of time before he starts converting.

[–]dab2525Rashford -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ibra did score a sweet goal on a direct a couple of matches back.

[–]damien_aw 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think this season JM will have been focusing the majority of time on tactical familiarity and team cohesion. With a new squad and quite a few changes he's hardly known his best 11 or formation, switching from 4-2-3-1 to a 4-3-3, I think it's took a lot of time and effort to drill out the LVG 'philosophy'.

Set pieces require time on the training ground and I just think it's been low down in priority, expect that to be different next season.

[–]K-rock7Pogba 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Good point, the first team was in shambles at the end of last season. Although we're currently sitting at 6th, I'm still very satisfied with the strides the team has taken under Mourinho in a fairly short period of time.

We'll get there, some aspects will just take longer to improve than others.

[–]lankmastertayOver My Dead Bailly 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Honestly I haven't thought about it. You're absolutely right. I'm still giving it another transfer window or two before I am critical of Mourinho's side. Loving the style of football but this is a super tough league. I'm confident in top4 this season and bigger things next season, even in the CL. Thanks for the post, got me thinking

[–]TheZilloBeastPogba 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (4子コメント)

How can you be confident on top4? I mean, I hope your right, but look at the place we are and the points we have. Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal are just not dropping those points but we are.

[–]lankmastertayOver My Dead Bailly 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Without looking at this past weekend and opening it up to a general 'trend' we can see a few things: Arsenal are looking shaky against pretty much everyone, so when it comes to harder opposition they'll be tested; Man City have Jesus but still have a brutal back line and goalie; Liverpool have had an absolutely shocking January with no signs of slowing down. Top 6 are playing each other very frequently still until March 6th, then another three game weeks in a row. Only thing I'm worried about is securing points after the away game at Stoke, which arguably is always hard. I think even though we didn't finish our chances in this game out of recent memory we are on a general upswing. We play some pretty easy fixtures for a few so it'll look better by March imo.

[–]subhanghani 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We need a big victory against either Hull or Wigan to up our confidence. By big I mean, like 5 or 6 nil.

[–]TelcarSolskjær 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It can definitely happen but after the stoke and liverpool games i'm not really confident anymore. I think we're gonna fuck it up somehow again this year

[–]mossingen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's the bad side of it really, we always fail to capture the points they slip off.

[–]rogues69Martial 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've thought about that too. Another thing I've noticed is the lack of any ingenuity in taking set pieces against teams that are defending deep. Considering this should be practiced during training it's a bit infuriating that we've not improved in this aspect under Jose.

[–]H-E-I-S-E-N-B-E-R-G[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Especially after the one v Leicester worked so well, would it not be in our best interest to have one in our back pocket for games like yesterday?

[–]badgarok725SAF 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's almost worse when you remember how we were gifted 3 easy ones against Leicester earlier this season.

[–]H-E-I-S-E-N-B-E-R-G[S] 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not almost worse, it is worse.

[–]H-E-I-S-E-N-B-E-R-G[S] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

One thing we can agree on at least is that Phil Jones whipping them in ain't the answer

[–]the_dworkSchweinsteiger 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Although... Mourinho seems to be getting the best out of Jones, maybe he could revolutionise corner taking as well.

[–]CveinMemphis & Martial 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

We have only been given one penalty so far in the league.

Or is it not calculating penalties in the set pieces?

[–]taleniekov 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My thoughts as well.. it's all the penalties we haven't gotten

[–]DairyQueen98Beckham 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No our set pieces are very bad.

[–]zxnoregretzxzx 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have players who are good from dead ball situations but we rarely put one into a real danger area, often failing to beat the first man at the near post or over hitting it to the back post. On top of that when we do get the ball into the right area, our players just aren't that great at scoring from headed chances. Ibrahimovic is quite good, but he doesn't always get on the end of them. Often they fall to Pogba who fails to get over them properly, Fellaini when he's on who to be fair does get over them but tends to put them too central and without much power or Rojo who doesn't have great direction. The likes of Martial and Rashford are practically non-existent when it comes to headers, I'm not sure why that is but perhaps they're just not physical enough. Smalling is dangerous on balls into the box sometimes but he isn't consistent either.

As for direct free kicks, Ibrahimovic takes the bulk of them and he isn't great at them. Pogba has been unlucky not to have a few goals from them. From close range Mata is our best option, Rooney can be good too but he often places them just wide yesterday aside.

It's really an area we should look to improve in, both the accuracy of the corner and the headers themselves. We could add a good 15+ goals a season if we were better from set pieces.

[–]H-E-I-S-E-N-B-E-R-G[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Look, Arsenal have basically just won a game off a set piece now. Sigh

[–]Flick_My_Bean_Geoff 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We just won a point in the last minute v stoke?

[–]uniy64Mata 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The delivery of our corners are pessimistic

[–]Dunkaegon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Only part of the problem. For instance, Mata had a handful of assists from corners at Chelsea where his flighted deliveries were attacked by Cahill, Terry and Drogba. At United, apart from perhaps Pogba and Bailly, no one does that.

Compare Vidic's aggression in the box to the labk thereof from the likes of Smalling, Rojo and Fellaini.

[–]ionisedCantona 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

A little. One of my mantas used to be: "ah, a corner/free kick. We're good from these."

Don't find myself saying it much, these days.

[–]the_dworkSchweinsteiger 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can't remember the last time I've thought that. Maybe the last time I felt we were really dangerous from corners was during the 90's in the Bruce and Pallister days.

[–]stats193Martial 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly when ever we have a free kick I expect it to canon into the wall or just go out for a goal kick same with corners the inability from our team to wip one in with pace and not have it hit the front man is a rarity.

Hopefully next season Andreas is given a chance in the team and takes over the duty of dead balls or we sign somebody who can because right now it's trash

[–]maydaybomberHerrera's #1 fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We just aren't taking enough chances. yesterday Ibra refused to shoot when he was through on goal multiple times, Mata missed a sitter. We have so much height and yet little men beat us in the air constantly, so yeah a little bit.

[–]ChegismDe Gea 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Our defenders are pretty shit at scoring. Look how many goals Cahill, Terry and Ivanovic have got between them in the past 5 years. Now compare to ours. I'd be surprised if our entire backline has more than Terry alone.

Watch the headers that our CB's, especially Jones and Smalling do. Even without pressure they often send it right back to the other team. On corners Jones very rarely gets a head to it, but Smalling does and often misses. He's shit at heading and just hopes it goes somewhere instead of aiming it.

[–]jamrockredditor 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I die a little inside every time ibra sends one into the 30th row. he has many wonderful attributes...free kicks aren't one of them

[–]USADevils 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know why we bother applauding when we win a corner. It's essentially a goal kick.

[–]ilovethisgameahahahRashford 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

All our corner takers are shite, they always hit it high making it easy to defend. Ibra takes every free kick even though he can't beat the wall.

[–]StathamIsYourSaviorHerrera 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Van Persie was our last good corner kick taker

[–]tre101 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

100% this, corners are honestly terrible this season no matter who is taking them, either too near to the keeper or dont get to the near post. The couple Ive seen Martial take have been promising but he doesnt take enough.

[–]el7cosmos 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

young good at taking corner kick

[–]Mree_Knight 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember 4 years ago when we had that corner against Southampton and van Persie scored his hat-trick. I was so happy and in disbelief that a Nani corner actually worked. This has been a problem for a while now.

[–]daveorMartial 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In general we've scored too little all over the pitch. We only have 3-4 more goals than Palace. Our set pieces are particularly weak and I think it's because we're missing that super aggressive CB on corners like Vidic.

[–]kfarias9 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. I hardly ever get excited over a corner or free-kick. We've got the height, just not the delivery on a consistent bases.

[–]An0therkShaw 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because we keep shooting from ridiculous places. Ibra will shoot from anywhere within 30 yards and so will Pogba.

You know if Rooney missed yesterday he would have been criticised for wasting a chance to cross. If we start going for set piece moves rather than aimlessly shooting from anywhere we would get more from them.

[–]RedHabibi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. Especially corners. It seems about 65% of our deliveries don't clear the first man

[–]goodguy1994it's Rooneyyy, it's inevitable. some things are meant to be 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think Liverpool's 16 are mostly due to the penalties(because I see a lot of pool fans complaining that they're shit from set pieces too). And we have been denied at least 6-7 penalties this season.

[–]spikey88 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Our corners over the past few years have been woeful, sometimes not even beating the first man. How can you be a professional footballer and not take a decent corner?!

[–]Qwertyasdfzxcv123De Gea 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've been saying it for a while but whenever theres a set piece I'm never excited, I actually was shocked when rooney scored as I'm sure we all were, but it just seems like even with fellani, pogba, ibra, bailly and smalling its rare the ball gets to someones head.

[–]Naijaboy17Rashford 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And on the other end I'm scared shitless when the other team has one against us.

[–]TheFormidableGiantRooney 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The average corner success rate is 3 in 100, so you should only really expect about 3 goals from set plays from every 10 or so games.

[–]TheZilloBeastPogba 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chelsea has 2 attempts on target aginst Hull. AND 1 goal. We always have 10+ attempts on target AND no goals. Ffs

[–]super_moh 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mata is our best interest to have a few goals from them.

[–]whistleformeSmalling 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Haven't taken note of who has been taking corners, but has Valencia had a chance? He has some great deliveries during the run of play and if he could do the same off corners, he may be the man.

Edit for a side note:

Seems like more than once our big fellas head to the same spots during free kicks and corners, the commentators noted it a few times in the last game where Fellaini and Ibra were both sitting far or near post. Perhaps it hasn't been high up on Jose's preparation, something to come?

It also seems to me that there's a lot of plays where a pass comes in and Ibra and Fellaini take it down with their chest, rather than putting it up for a possible chance etc. Might be another tactical preparation Jose puts the boys through.

[–]oldtraffordfaithful 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dude, I scream at my TV every time we waste a corner. Every damn time.

[–]pkomRashford 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have realised most of the time rhe players seem to rush the direcr free kicks and not take a moment to focus

[–]KeKaRoNifollows never first 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This kind of comes at a weird time, hence Rooney's setpiece goal that broke two records and preserved our unbeaten run, but I see your point.

[–]eternali17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just a whole lot of crappy deliveries from corners. It's annoying once you start to notice.

[–]tnwnf 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feel like we used up all of our set piece goals against Leicester.

[–]ImawarriorbroMartial 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What I find frustrating is how frequently we take short and quick free kicks in what could be a dangerous area.

[–]vbgolfman 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ESPNfc had a great article weeks back about how statistics and data are changing the game and coaching tactics. I can't remember the exact percentage but less than 5% of goals are scored from outside the box and the author of the article suggested that in the coming years we will see much less shots on goal from attempted free kicks in favor of passing to danger areas inside the box.

[–]strawzySchweinsteiger's godly calves 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup agreed, especially corners. It's gotten that bad instead of thinking how can we score from this corner, I think "hope we can take advantage of the deflection from the front man".

It's just another case of us not taking our chances when we're given them. It's annoying that we don't take our chances but its encouraging that we're worrying about stuff like this rather than sideways passing and no chances whatsoever.

[–]gauravahluwalia 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You aint alone. We might have capable free-kick takers, but our corners......might as well let it go for goal kick. Past 2 season or so our corner set-piece has been pathetic. Blind was the only one whos delivery would at times threaten but even that seems lost now.

[–]magnifique_7 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes it does. But I think it comes down to a lot of things. It's just not the height but it's decent movement in the box and great jump that account for a good header.

Pogba, Fellaini, Carrick don't move around much. Fellaini is Messi-marked when it comes to corners anyway. The one player with a great leap in our team is Bailly and he is currently at AFCON! Remember when asked about Pogba marking Lovren, Mou said we don't have good jumpers in our team to mark him.

Of course there is that but also I think Mou doesn't want us to be hit on the counters especially when everyone's getting good at it. Probably why we see less of them well-practiced training ground corners we saw under LVG!

[–]reddit_no_likeyCome On You Reds! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Freekicks are a tricky thing. The problem isn't that we have any actual specialist in this arena. We have about 4 players who have their own angle that they're good at. So, it's basically a handful of slightly above par freekick takers who can hit from very limited angles & ranges. And that in itself hurts any chances there are of either of them doing it enough until they become specialists. They're good ball strikers who have to get better their freekick game.

As for corners & indirect FKs, there's no excuse. This needs to be part of their training. We know they work on it b/c of certain custom plays we've seen, but they need to keep working on it b/c it's no where near champion quality. And it's costing us.

[–]psaepf2009Martial 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But how well do we convert on set pieces as a %?

[–]linkfollowlink 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I honestly think our set pieces(both shotting&crossing) have been shit for years since CR left. And Vida had scored few goals since then because he had been the only threat in our set pieces and thus struggled with too many defenders. What made things worse was Giggs' retirement, after which we lost the most reliable set piece kicker. EDIT: Grammar

[–]fuqers 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba's hit the woodwork on 3 freekicks as far as I can remember. And yes, I agree with the top post as well, Ibra always hits the fucking wall.

Another thing is that we've only had 1 penalty so far in the league and definitely deserved at least 3 or 4 more.

[–]dab2525Rashford 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We haven't been good on corners since SAF. I'd love to go hard at Payet or someone comparably good on set pieces. That skill alone is worth a spot in starting 11 IMO.

[–]PenPaperShotgunJose Mourinho 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have pace, we just don't use it. Marial, Memphies, TFM, Shaw,

[–]SeasickSykes"Oh Alan Shearer was F%#king Dearer" 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Corners fucking infuriate me, I can't remember the last time we scored from one, I mean it could have been recent, but I don't remember it....

We're shite at corners, really really fucking shite.

Free Kicks, should be Pogba and Mata, I like Zlatan's but they're predictable, always under the wall low and hard, I like em, but they aint going in, Pogba has been closer.

[–]C-doc 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ibra is just shit at them.

Pogba and Mata are quite good at them.

[–]Tipsy247 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We need to sign Payet for this.

[–][deleted] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We signed the best attacking players from the Italian (Pogba had most assists), German and French league. We are sixth in the table and also joint sixth for goals scored. 1 more goal than Crystal Palace, and 3 more than WBA.

Goalkeepers are not miraculously performing against us. Our shots are predictable af, so too is our attacking pattern. Either a long diagonal ball over the top, or Valencia driving the ball forward out wide.

It will take a while, but soon people will see it for what it is: mismanagement.

[–]RyanG7 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm all in favor of switching to a Fifa Soccer mentality by putting Ibra and Fellaini as strikers and crossing balls in all game and seeing what happens

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]MadaraTheUchihahttp://www.howmanypremierleaguemedalshasstevengerrardwon.com/ 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    How about you read the post first?