132
133

Joseph Anderson - Fallout 4: One Year Later (youtube.com)

VidyaDiscourse が 投稿

全 44 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]perfect_true [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I don't think I've ever seen a game have a faster drop off in interest post release. Everyone was going mental for it for years leading to its release but now I see as many people still discussing Morrowind, New Vegas and Skyrim as much as F4.

[–]Omahauser1985 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Four things that killed it for me:

  • The story wasnt bad but it didnt feel like my choices made any real impact on the end game.

  • The dialogue system was gimped to the point where it didnt matter if you were a nice guy or a jerk you always got the same result.

  • The base building was hit or miss for me. At one end it was fun to build the bases on the other hand it got tedious quickly. I feel like it should have either been implemented so it was required or stripped from rhe game.

  • One character to rule them all. The other Fallouts were strong because of how you could replay them and respec your character so its never 100% the same. The new one allowed you to do everything with one character. It made it feel less special and unique.

The game has alot of redeeming qualities but it just wasnt a great Fallout game.

[–]FlyBlahTim [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Bethesda should just contract Obsidian to do their Fallout games. Bethesda isn't good at story telling, and Fallout story matters more than exploration. Opposite of Skyrim.

[–]CageAndBale [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

or they could just hire a better writer. Bethesda just is a name at the end of the day, the workers always change.

[–]stufff [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The dialogue system was just pure shit compared to New Vegas and even Fallout 3.

The fact that you only ever had 4 options severely limited opportunities for role playing. In F3 and F:NV you always had several different dialogue options, many of which were only available if you had a certain ranking in some relevant skill, or stat, or you had some relevant trait or perk, or had done some other quest or event, or had a certain reputation, etc. It was robust as hell, and compared to F4's four options which are all pretty much just different ways of saying the same thing, it just made that game seem hollow as hell. (Here's a game maker's toolkit episode about a side-quest in F:NV and why that game's deisgn was so good. Spoilers obviously)

The fact that you could max out all your SPECIAL stats pretty easily just by grinding levels also took away a lot of the meaning of those stats. In previous games having a 10 in any stat was usually a pretty big deal, and usually came at a pretty heavy penalty as far as some of your other stats. Having an extremely low INT stat fundamentally changed the entire game, but in F4 it didn't affect your character at all.

There was a lot I liked about F4. The gunplay was improved, I actually really enjoyed the base building, but in the end I didn't feel any connection to my character. He wasn't my avatar in that world, I had no control over his personality, he was just some guy someone at Bethesda designed, and while that's fine for some character driven games (Tomb Raider), he wasn't interesting enough to carry it. What he ended up being was a boring blank slate that I couldn't write on, and I didn't give a shit about him or his story, and I didn't feel compelled to finish the game.

The endlessly repeating and randomly generated "radiant" quests didn't help either, particularly the fact that I couldn't distinguish them from "real" quests in my quest log and only figured it out after I did enough of them to notice a pattern repeating. I wish I could turn that bullshit off or at least have it sectioned off so I knew it wasn't important or wouldn't get me any kind of story progression.

[–]elifreeze [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

New Vegas and Morrowind both still hold up as excellent games. Skyrim while not held in as high regard as the aforementioned two still has a huge modding community to keep players coming back (and personally, I think Skyrim is a better game than FO4).

Fallout 4 is neither as deep or engaging in RPG mechanics and lore as New Vegas or Morrowind, and it's modding community isn't as big as Skyrim's.

[–]Typhron [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Everyone's sitting here complaining about the overly long detail that comes from Joseph Anderson's videos and I'm sitting here coming off a binge. That's kinda what he does, I guess. Then again, he is a writer. I would assume he'd have trouble keeping it brief when there's something that's caught his fancy. I guess I can make that statement now with some semblance of credibility, now.

That said, I won't be watching this one quite yet. Still haven't watched the first one. Haven't really done much with Fallout 4, but I still want to beat it and be at least mildly surprised by it eventually.

[–]cantim [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Wow people here just complaining about the length of the video is just kind of ignorant. I mean how unimaginative do you have to be to think that there's no way a person can talk about a particular topic for 2+ hours? Or that everything has ever been said about a game or topic has been said?

These videos aren't just a presentation of objective facts droning on for 2 hours. Depending on the person, it's their point of view which can offer insights not just in Fallout 4 but in other things (game development, mechanics, life in general). Idk how to explain that if you've never sat down and watched other long-form works.

Anyway, I enjoy these long-form videos. It's nice to have up before going to work or watching them before I go to bed. It's not like there's a plethora of content creators that do these kinds of videos.

[–]Kurtosis25 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The fact that people are upset over getting MORE content that covers a topic that they're allegedly interested in makes me really sad. Go watch a buzzfeed video if you can't pay attention for longer than 5 minutes. There's been four expansions, patches, mods, and the topic of Fallout 4 in the context of the series. I could easily see it taking 2.5 hours to walk through all the expansions alone.

[–]PetrolOrchid [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

I really like Joseph Anderson most of the time, but he tends to get lost in some minor minutiae far too often which drags out both the argument he is making and his video.

Without having watched this one, I honestly don't see how Fallout 4 warrants a 2,5 hour video, especially since it is a revisit. Fallout 4 is a fun game, but comparatively full of shallow mechanics, writing and moment-to-moment gameplay. It doesn't have any grander themes that need to be explored in-depth or warrant deep analysis, it has not reinvented the wheel in any single category. It's blockbuster cinema made video game, not high art.

Edit: All of this is not to say that I won't be watching this video on principle, or that there is no possibility that he could fill 2,5 hours of insightful comments and analysis. But I truly hope that, when I watch it, he doesn't fall into his usual pattern of 60% retelling the plot/writing/game mechanics, and 40% analysing those same elements. It gets tiring, it detracts from his points, it makes watching his videos feel very awkward: They are neither for people who have played the game and want to engage in discussion, nor is it for people who have not played the game, and both sides for the same reason: he goes into (at times) absurd detail.

[–]Eurehetemec [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I would concur. I came back to Fallout 4 very recently (with a much improved PC), and whilst it has some fun stuff going on, primarily in it being a sort of okay Shooter/RPG hybrid (not a great one, but the open world and weapon customization and so on make it fun in it's way) and having some really strong visuals, it is ultimately a very shallow game, by any standards. Even something like Skyrim is a lot more multilayered and interesting (not least it's prescient politics, with the failing orderly globalist Empire against the populist/nationalist Stormcloaks) to actually analyze.

The great hope, when FO4 came out, was that amazing DLC would give it more depth and more interesting stuff to do, but that didn't really happen. The DLC has ranged from barely more than mods, to fairly shallow stuff, with even Far Harbour, the most impressive piece, essentially being only up to more average Bethesda standards, rather than being remarkable or exciting.

It's also disappointing that modders haven't really done anywhere near as much for FO4 as they had done by the same time in Skyrim's or FO3's history - I think largely due to diminished interest. Which isn't to say there aren't good mods - there are - but many of the best are very simple and a few are even quasi-ports of Skyrim mods. There's really nothing to make one "sit up and take notice", though.

[–]trooperdx3117 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I used to be really big into the Bethesda modding community back during oblivions heyday and followed on through fallout 3 and skyrim. It's pretty sad seeing how little fallout 4 has been picked up by the community.

I wonder if the console mods problems had something to do with it. I remember when it started up a lot of mod authors were finding their own content stolen and uploaded to Xbox or else there was suddenly this influx of people who didn't fully understand how to get mods working or preventing conflicts hurling abuse at mod authors. I know quite a few made their mods Fallout script extender requires just because it meant their mod wouldn't go onto Xbox.

[–]QuackOfAllTrades [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Even something like Skyrim is a lot more multilayered and interesting (not least it's prescient politics, with the failing orderly globalist Empire against the populist/nationalist Stormcloaks)

I think this is ultimately Fallout 4's biggest weakness. No matter how shit the quests may be, how bland the dialogue may be and how terrible the story may be, the blandness of the world presented in Fallout 4 really damages the game's replayability. As much as Bethesda's gotten wrong in the past, the one thing they've been consistent in since Morrowind is delivering open-world exploration experiences that players can immerse themselves in easily and get enjoyment from simply exploring the world and finding what's in it. Even Oblivion with its bland, endless Wiltshire countryside had interesting cities and Ayleid ruins, and a massive expansion that made the game far more interesting to explore. As much as Fallout 3 shat on the lore established by its predecessors, even that game made up for it by giving the player interesting places to visit.

Like you said, everyone was hoping for a Shivering Isles type expansion to come to Fallout 4 in the form of Far Harbor, but again it offers very little in the way of interesting locations to explore, locals to talk to or things to do there. If this is really the best Bethesda can do with a setting with as rich a setting as Fallout, then they really need to consider handing development to another studio, because while Fallout 4 was still a reasonably good game, it could've been so much more than what it ended up being.

[–]antipromaybe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Bethesda's Fallout games suffer from something too much clutter. There are too many boxes and shelves to look through. It's tedious, overwhelming, and a major distraction from the game's strengths. It's a realism issue and that's one of the downsides to setting your games in major metropolitan areas instead of South Western wastelands.

[–]le_benis [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Even the deepest games are not much more complex than Fallout 4 when it comes down to it. There are also games much simpler that I could talk about for hours.

[–]PetrolOrchid [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

There are also games much simpler that I could talk about for hours.

Yeah, but should you? What's the merit of a lengthy, outdrawn discussion (which, mind you, in the case of a YouTube essay is a monologue) if the same thing can be achieved in a much shorter timespan?

Joseph Anderson rarely says anything wrong, and when he says something debatable he is aware of that, and tries to illuminate both sides, but watching this video right now, he is 10 minutes in and has talked exclusively about the most obvious of stuff.

Granted, he realises that this is obvious, but what is the merit for me, the viewer, in getting this information presented to me this way? He makes fantastic points, and then bogs them down by choosing too many examples and over-applying them to his argument. His point has been made, everything else is interesting at times, but feels ultimately superfluous.

[–]Lippuringo [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Yeah, but should you? What's the merit of a lengthy, outdrawn discussion (which, mind you, in the case of a YouTube essay is a monologue) if the same thing can be achieved in a much shorter timespan?

Why not? His video is not a discussion, it's monologue with his thoughts and ideas, they could be as long as you want. And he put time marks at description, so you don't need to watch parts you're not interested in. But i would say that times stamps could be more self explanatiry and there could be just more shorter parts, because people like Anderson and TB used to lost in thoughts and repeat themself in long explanations.

[–]PetrolOrchid [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

His video is not a discussion, it's monologue with his thoughts and ideas, they could be as long as you want.

Which is fine. As I said, I'm a fan of his, I've watched almost every video he has put out, but it feel like every new video of his gets longer and longer.

If we call his videos essays, then we place them within academia, which is absolutely fine. But there's a reason any essay, term paper or thesis in University has a page, word or character limit: Not every good thought is a thought that needs to expressed, especially not in detail.

People like Mark Brown can break down completely new, innovative games in 10 to 20 minutes, and express their arguments clearly and precisely. Which is not to say that every YouTuber needs to be like Mark Brown, but which is to say that spending 2,5 hours explaining a game that is known to be shallow – on top of another 1,5 hour video made a year ago – seems extremely excessive. That's 4 hours in total talked about Fallout 4. Why? What needs to be said in 4 hours that couldn't have been said in one hour, or even two? You're bound to run into repetitions with that run time, to get bogged down in arguments and/or examples that are not necessary for your overall point.

[–]sourc3original [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's 4 hours in total talked about Fallout 4. Why? What needs to be said in 4 hours that couldn't have been said in one hour, or even two?

Just dont watch it then bro. But its his channel and if wants to talk about Mario brothers 2 for 15 hours, then so be it.

[–]Coziestpigeon2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

they could be as long as you want

Not unless he can remain engaging. This isn't a video diary, it is content produced with the intention of being watched by many.

[–]FlyBlahTim [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I appreciate JA but a 2.5 hour discussion on a game he has already discussed before is just kind of ridiculous.

[–]BartKaell [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't mind. I keep trying to watch his videos before bed because they're so long and he just keeps on talking, but every single time i just end up watching the entire video because he's so interesting. This man could discuss paint drying for 5 hours and i'd watch it.

[–]Ghidoran [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I wasn't expecting to really get into Fallout 4 after all the negativity, and my previous lukewarm experiences with Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but I started playing a couple weeks ago and haven't been able to stop. I've already put in about 50 hours and plan to put in a lot more.

The Bethesda formula just works, and it's nice to have one of their games where the combat is actually fun and exciting. I actually look forward to encountering enemies and having massive firefights. Are there things the game suffers from? Sure. The graphics and engine are a bit outdated, but the game still looks good most of the time. The story and characters are rather shallow, and I'd say there's a dearth of quests. I can understand why people were disappointed by that aspect, but to me it seems like the game's become more of an action game than an RPG, and it's done pretty well.

[–]MarioMakerBrett [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

I know that there are people who will defend the long-form video review ... but we've all played Fallout 4 at this point. We know what the game offers. We've read the articles that praised what it did right and the articles that bash it for what it got wrong. We've explored as much of the map as we all could, and played the game to the fullest that we all chose to do so. I just don't understand where a 2.5 hour analysis of one, single video game (that's been on the market for 14 months) fits into my life. What am I going to learn from this? At the end of the day, my experience remains completely unchanged, and there's likely absolutely nothing to be said that hasn't already been said.

[–]PointZ3RO [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

For me personally, the value I find in these long-form game reviews is that they often offer a perspective that you may not have had by playing the game yourself. These reviewers (Joseph Anderson, Matthewmatosis, Noah Caldwell Gervais etc.) often talk about game design as a whole and not just the specific game they're critiquing, so there are things to learn and insights to be heard from that angle.

I've played Ocarina of Time many times, but Matthewmatosis' review of that game still managed to make me think about it in a different way and turn a more critical eye to the game. My overall opinion of OoT hasn't really changed because of that review, but it made me consider factors that I would never have considered otherwise.

Of course everyone has different tastes, but I personally find it entertaining and interesting to hear someone's in-depth thoughts and opinions on video games and other forms of art. I'm definitely not alone in this; just look at how popular these reviewers can get. There's definite value in these kinds of videos.

Also, people enjoy discussing entertainment. People enjoy listening to others appreciate something that they appreciate as well. Hell, people even enjoy hearing views that run counter to their own because it encourages critical thinking. I'll admit that these long-form videos have a niche audience, but they have an audience nonetheless.

I'm not trying to make you enjoy these videos and I apologise if this comment comes across as confrontational. Just wanted to give my two cents.

*edit: fixed a word

[–]Typhron [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There's PLENTY of these kinds of reviews for movies, comic books, and other media to be honest. I'm very partial to SFdebris's take on things and the like, but he does do shorter reviews (like, 20 minutes long or so). You're definitely not wrong in the slightest in their view being different from what you'd expect.

[–]sanman7890 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I hope you didn't go into academia with that attitude...

[–]MarioMakerBrett [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Are you drawing a comparison between Fallout 4 and academia? I eat a burger my hands, and a steak with a knife and fork.

[–]sanman7890 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

No...I was commenting on your attitude towards long-form commentary. If JA talking about a 1-year old game for three hours is excessive and unnecessary to you, then academia would seem silly (at least the soft side) because of how much repetition is necessary even if you want to put new ideas out there. Ya know, because you gotta couch everything in what came before, et cetera.

I even checked my comment...and I literally just commented on your attitude, lol.

[–]MarioMakerBrett [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I get where you're coming from ... but there is such a thing as covering an inch-deep topic as though it's a mile-deep topic ... such as a 2.5 hour video about a game like Fallout 4. It's a piece of entertainment that's been thoroughly and completely picked apart over the course of a year. I'm not that interested in watching the 2.5 highlight reel of those analyses.

[–]Coziestpigeon2 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Two and a half hours long? Jesus Fuck, this better be good.